Tracer Missile, I get it.

[Anelyn]

I don't get it, peeps come and speak in such threads as if they have perfect knowledge of classes / ACs and game mechanics, then ask stupid questions like: don't all classes have an interrupt baseline?

 

Soon we will have baseline flashbang, awe, charge, pull, 3 aoe knockbacks, aoe and single target interrupts, cover, sorc shield, and spammable no heat cost instant cast death from above.

 

TM is ABSOLUTELY FINE. Is a cast nuke, 1.5s, which does ok dmg (keep in mind our 35% arp before TM stacks of 4% x5 = 20% extra arp). It costs 16 heat. If it crits, will vent 8 heat. Effect cannot occur more often than 3s. Then again, crit is RNG. even at 50% crit chance (not sure if this is even achievable even with set bonuses and what not), it doesn't mean you will crit every 2nd TM, you can cast 10 in a row and get no crits, that's what RNG stands for.

 

Same as peeps blame sorcs / sages for TK / FL spam. They don't notice the dots ticking, elemental / internal dmg ignoring armor, and think the channel spell is OP melting their HP so fast.

 

Same as peeps complain about rage / focus specs for JK / SW critting Slam / Force Sweep for 3-5k, QQ no setup no brain broken ability criting so much!

 

Learn game mechanics, learn other classes to know how they function and what to expect, then you will see that in the big picture it all evens / balances out.

[_Nyth]

For an ability obtained so early, uses very little ammo/heat generation, and hits a target no matter LoS during "cast time", I think the timer should be 2 seconds with a 10 second cooldown. And or generate more heat to make it ok to use, but not.

 

 

Honestly, I see a Merc spamming Tracer and I ignore everything and everyone and outright kill him first and foremost because it irritates the crap out of me seeing someone doing 2k+ damage every 1.5 seconds adding armor penetration with each shot and I am the one getting nerfed?

 

Oh yeah, rage kill every time.

 

You should probably give the class a go before you make bold and frankly rather ignorant statements.

 

First of all; Tracer doesn't hit too hard at all. This is a huge misconception, but really tracer is next to rapid shots one of our weaker attacks. And it does less damage than most of the other class' core abilities.

 

The misconception comes forth out of 2 causes:

1) Tracer Missile has a very clear and unique animation. It's just like how most sith complain that consular rocks are OP, but that's also largely due to it being so recognizable

2) Our other attacks hit way harder, but are instant and/or have weak animations.

 

Second of all; Tracer DOES require LoS at the start and as the cast finishes. When I play as merc healer facing an arsenal BH in huttball. I just jump in and out of LoS as he tries to cast.

 

In fact tracer has so many disadvantages that it more than offsets the low heat cost.

You need constant LoS; you can't move while casting it; It's quite easy to interrupt. And the Arsenal BH is extremely reliant on it hitting as it powers our 3 other main abilities that hit hard.

 

Seriously though. Get some inside information. Play a Arsenal BH for a few weeks and see what you think about Tracer then.

Spamming Tracer is really dumb, but Bioware set it up that way. You have to spam tracer and weave in your more powerful attacks.

 

Quite frankly I'm 99.99% sure that all the whining would stop, or had never even started if Tracer didn't have such a huge noticable animation.

Fact: You never hear as much whining about Grav Round.

[DervimNorth]

Quite frankly I'm 99.99% sure that all the whining would stop, or had never even started if Tracer didn't have such a huge noticable animation.

Fact: You never hear as much whining about Grav Round.

 

It's probably coz most of the people who complain about TM are OP/Scoundrels and they are pissed about the incoming nerf(ok, I admit-it does seem to be a bit too harsh).

 

Just wait until after the actual nerf. We'll be having so many complains about TM that it'll be really sad.

[Aliathe]

You dont have interrupts? Every base class gets an interrupt.

 

No. Just.. No...

[MaGariShun]

It does 827dmg, and applies a 4% armor debuff (note, armor not increased damage, just an armor debuff) up to 5 times for a total of 20% arpen. takes 1.5seconds to cast.

 

Snipe, an IA trained ability does 2739-2917dmg with a 1.5second cast time, no cool down.. also spammable.

 

Please, Sir, give me some of the stuff you are smoking. Are you nuts? Snipe CRITS for 2,8k and that is me being in full columi (except weapon is tionese) with 82% bonus crit damage and armor debuffs applied (which I have to use seperately). Snipe does not apply any debuff and is by far the worst ability you could cast at any time without counting overload shot or rifle shot. You only use it as a filler when everything else is on cooldown and you are in danger of being energy capped OR before every followthrough because it is a prerequisite for that. If snipe did the damage you say, every IA would spam it mindlessly.

 

I am currently leveling a merc and tracer missile (on lv 22) already does 1,3k damage in pvp (to have a glimpse at what it does @ 50) noncrit.

 

Please don't make up random numbers, I have no Idea where you got those numbers (which are absurdly specific, yet completely wrong) from

[MaGariShun]

You never hear as much whining about Grav Round.

 

because it's the same skill and due to faction imbalance you mostly play other imps (either huttball as imp, or other WZ as rep)

[LaVolpex]

Why do you mention TM's heat cost in the first part of your post, but choose to ignore it during your comparison of TM and Snipe?

 

You want to know why no one posts about "snipe spam"? Because it doesn't exist in the same way you're thinking. It's obvious you haven't played a Sniper (yet for some reason you feel experienced enough to teach others about Snipe). Snipe has high energy cost, and has a prerequisite before it's use - you must be in cover. Not too bad of an extra step if you know how to play your Sniper, but it's 1 extra step nonetheless.

 

This is why Snipe can't be spammed - unless you're using it as a last ditch effort to burn someone down and willing to be waaaay past the ideal 40% energy regen sweet spot.

 

I don't know much about TM other than I only have a few moments to LOS you or cloak if not dot'd (interrupting TM is rarely an option for a melee), but I thought I'd stop by and fix your assumptions about Snipe.

 

 

THANK YOU!

 

not to mention that we get ZERO armor pen, ZERO crit multiplier , and our snipe (wich has a cast time) can be dodged, blocked or absorbed, and even if the shot somehow manages to avoid all that , it still will get nearly halved on heavy / medium armor users

[Jazzlok]

I want to Snipe spam but my Sniper won't let me, silly energy :'(

[RyuKazuha]

Im somewhat intrigued...

 

There's nothing like this on the Commando-Forums. given they use the same Mechanics, it's not the damage, it has to be the animation...

[_Nyth]

As a Sniper and a Merc I can say that the classes are totally incomparable on this front. I'm actually baffled why we are having this discussion.

 

I am currently leveling a merc and tracer missile (on lv 22) already does 1,3k damage in pvp (to have a glimpse at what it does @ 50) noncrit.

 

Please don't make up random numbers, I have no Idea where you got those numbers (which are absurdly specific, yet completely wrong) from

 

Merc's Tracer Missile hits for more than snipe, but they are not the same.

A sniper has a lot more tools to use. Snipe is merely a filler the kind mercenaries don't have, ergo comparing snipe and TM, or trying to find a counter part for one another is impossible.

 

As a merc you use Tracer Missile to build your debuff on your target.

After that it's pretty much using Rail Shot, Unload and HSM on cooldown and use TM as filler.

Obviously TM has to do some decent damage, as it is a vital part of your rotation. Not to mention that often you don't even get the time to build as many stacks in PvP.

 

A sniper does something totally different. You have many more abilities and other stuff.

You use Series of Shots on cooldown, as that is a major way to proc reactive shots (shortening your ambush cast to 1.5 second). Then ambush whenever RS procced.

Followthrough whenever it is up. Because frankly Followthrough is THE marksman ability. It hits for a TON (Probably somewhere around Rail Shot) only costs 6 heat and has a 6 second cooldown. So you basically build your rotation around Followthrough.

 

The playstyles are totally different too. A sniper can MUCH more easily build absurd burst. A combination of Explosive Probe > Ambush > Followthrough; maybe even followed by Takedown is a scary thing to face.

A merc on the other hand can due to easier heat management (energy is slightly harder to manage, although a regen of 6/sec helps a lot), put out better sustained damage.

On my sniper my damage comes in waves. When I use Ambush/Explosive Probe/Takedown or Followthrough my damage spikes to way above what Mercs put out on average. But when I use Snipe or Series of Shots my damage is relatively much lower than a mercs.]

That is why comparing Snipe to Tracer Missile is just a dumb discussion. It would for example be much more fair to compare multiple abilities or even short rotations.

Snipe > Followthrough comes much closer in damage to 2x TM than comparing snipe and TM directly.

 

because it's the same skill and due to faction imbalance you mostly play other imps (either huttball as imp, or other WZ as rep)

 

Partially; but the animation is simply too noticeable. I never EVER heard someone complain about the mad burst of Followthrough. I think half the people don't even know what the skill is that takes 3k off their HP when they face a sniper.

 

Even more ironic. Tracer Missile isn't the skill that hurts you that much when facing a Arsenal Merc. Rail Shot / Hunter Seeker Missile and Unload hurt way more; but again, they don't have the flashy blue neon animation that TM has.

 

THANK YOU!

 

not to mention that we get ZERO armor pen, ZERO crit multiplier , and our snipe (wich has a cast time) can be dodged, blocked or absorbed, and even if the shot somehow manages to avoid all that , it still will get nearly halved on heavy / medium armor users

 

We do have armor penetration. We got 20% on ambush (one of our big hitters) and we have Scatter Shot which instantly applies 20% armor penetration (You know the stuff that Mercs have to put 3 Tracer Missiles out for to accomplish).

Just because you don't use it, doesn't mean it ain't there.

 

Also we get crit multiplier as well. It's in the 6th tier.

Edited January 28, 2012 by _Nyth

[Trashfactory]

I propose these changes to Arms spec in terms to decrease the spam requirement of Tracer Missle.

 

#1. Place a 3 sec CD on Tracer Missile.

#2. Make it so Barrage and Power Barrier can only proc when successfully hitting a target with Power Shot.

#3. *edit* Increase Barrage chance of activating to 15% per rank (45% with 3/3). Keep damage bonus at 25%.

#4. Increase the cooldown of the Barrage effect to 10 seconds.

 

*edit* #5. Allow Power Shot to also proc Terminal Velocity.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Trashfactory

[_Nyth]

I propose these changes to Arms spec in terms to decrease the spam requirement of Tracer Missle.

 

#1. Place a 3 sec CD on Tracer Missile.

#2. Make it so Barrage and Power Barrier can only proc when successfully hitting a target with Power Shot.

#3. Increase Barrage chance of activating to 25%.

#4. Increase the cooldown of the Barrage effect to 10 seconds.

 

I see where you are going, but this doesn't really work unless you overhaul a large portion of the arsenal mechanics.

 

#1 Putting a cooldown on Tracer Missile is not useful, unless you change all of the supportive talents to also work with Power Shot, but why have tracer missile then in the first place.

A 19.5 second ramp up as you suggest to allow us to benefit from all our debuffs is not working.

 

#2 Again see 1. Also this is a damage buff mercenaries don't need; power shot does more damage than Tracer Missile if i'm not mistaken.

 

#3/#4 You mean 25% per rank? Even with a 10 sec cooldown; that's a pretty heavy dps increase we probably dont need.

 

------

 

A better suggestion, if you want to get rid of TM spam, would be for tracer to just be different from power shot; making sure you want to use both.

Tracer could be the lower damage buff applier and Power Shot the higher damage filler. TM would have to apply debuffs faster and drop them faster too.

For example:

Tracer Missile applies 5% armor debuff per stack; so you would only need 4 applications that is 2 shots for full stacks. Tracer Lock could be changed to either 10% or 15% per stack requiring 3/2 TM shots respectively. But then to counter that the buffs drop in say 10 seconds instead of 15 seconds; or maybe even quicker.

Then you can downgrade TM damage, and up Power Shot and/or include Power Shot in some more talents.

Hell you could leave Power Shot largely the same and make Tracer Missile castable on the move so that arsenal mercs stop being pure turrets and gain some mobility.

 

There are plenty of options; but forcing mercs to use something else by putting a CD on TM is just a bandaid that ruins the tree (which quite frankly is built around spamming TM)

Edited January 29, 2012 by _Nyth

[Trashfactory]

#3/#4 You mean 25% per rank? Even with a 10 sec cooldown; that's a pretty heavy dps increase we probably dont need.

 

My bad, inserted a 2 instead of a 1 since meant 15% per rank to activate. (so a 45% chance if 3/3 with the 25% damage bonus still).

 

My goal is to make it so you should be rotating between Power Shot and Tracer Missile to get the benefits a BH currently gets for just spamming Tracer. It, however, would increase the build-up time of all the buffs, but keep the damage about the same, if not increasing it slighty.

 

Also, power shot does hit harder, but it can be deflected/shielded against. Thus the reason I suggested the procs be based on a successful hit.

[Opix]

Just swap the GFX and SFX of Tracer and Fusion.

[DervimNorth]

I propose these changes to Arms spec in terms to decrease the spam requirement of Tracer Missle.

 

#1. Place a 3 sec CD on Tracer Missile.

#2. Make it so Barrage and Power Barrier can only proc when successfully hitting a target with Power Shot.

#3. *edit* Increase Barrage chance of activating to 15% per rank (45% with 3/3). Keep damage bonus at 25%.

#4. Increase the cooldown of the Barrage effect to 10 seconds.

 

*edit* #5. Allow Power Shot to also proc Terminal Velocity.

 

#1 Dude, entire Arsenal tree is build around TM spam-you interrupt it and the whole tree goes down the drain, so no CD's for TM.

 

#2 By all means yes! That way hybrid healer/dps will rock your sox with 20% damage mitigation and +10% armor.

 

#3 Whatever, I'm fine with it as I'm mostly using Unload to keep my char from overheating.

 

#4 Errr...No, heat management+the amount of skillpoints invested to make it work simply make in not worth taking at 10s cooldown.

 

#5 Same as #2.

[DervimNorth]

I see where you are going, but this doesn't really work unless you overhaul a large portion of the arsenal mechanics.

 

#1 Putting a cooldown on Tracer Missile is not useful, unless you change all of the supportive talents to also work with Power Shot, but why have tracer missile then in the first place.

A 19.5 second ramp up as you suggest to allow us to benefit from all our debuffs is not working.

 

#2 Again see 1. Also this is a damage buff mercenaries don't need; power shot does more damage than Tracer Missile if i'm not mistaken.

 

#3/#4 You mean 25% per rank? Even with a 10 sec cooldown; that's a pretty heavy dps increase we probably dont need.

 

------

 

A better suggestion, if you want to get rid of TM spam, would be for tracer to just be different from power shot; making sure you want to use both.

Tracer could be the lower damage buff applier and Power Shot the higher damage filler. TM would have to apply debuffs faster and drop them faster too.

For example:

Tracer Missile applies 5% armor debuff per stack; so you would only need 4 applications that is 2 shots for full stacks. Tracer Lock could be changed to either 10% or 15% per stack requiring 3/2 TM shots respectively. But then to counter that the buffs drop in say 10 seconds instead of 15 seconds; or maybe even quicker.

Then you can downgrade TM damage, and up Power Shot and/or include Power Shot in some more talents.

Hell you could leave Power Shot largely the same and make Tracer Missile castable on the move so that arsenal mercs stop being pure turrets and gain some mobility.

 

There are plenty of options; but forcing mercs to use something else by putting a CD on TM is just a bandaid that ruins the tree (which quite frankly is built around spamming TM)

 

So in your mind decreased de/buff duration=less frequent TM spam? Isn't that going to cause the opposite, like spamming TM like there's no tomorrow, just to renew the timers?

[Cegenaus]

I propose these changes to Arms spec in terms to decrease the spam requirement of Tracer Missle.

 

#1. Place a 3 sec CD on Tracer Missile.

#2. Make it so Barrage and Power Barrier can only proc when successfully hitting a target with Power Shot.

#3. *edit* Increase Barrage chance of activating to 15% per rank (45% with 3/3). Keep damage bonus at 25%.

#4. Increase the cooldown of the Barrage effect to 10 seconds.

 

*edit* #5. Allow Power Shot to also proc Terminal Velocity.

 

for #1 you would have to make tm instant and we all know that know one wants that

 

#4 wouldnt be fair considering sorcs get a slow with a 4 sec cd. as it is we can proc every three seconds but its not reliable enough to be every three seconds

[Rapl]

listen guys...they shouldnt nerf tracer missile it is so important in PvE for its armor reduction so what if people spam it in PvP.It is part of the game DEAL WITH IT!