target of target?

[Malastare]

And to Malastare.

 

Most of the action in this game involves watching the hot key bar for cooldowns and stacks rather then watching the characters themselves. As long as our eyes are down there like in other standard dated mmos, there needs to be indicators. Especially in high end content where mouse clicking and taking minutes to figure out which targets are doing what results in a wipe.

 

Well, I must say, it's refreshing to hear a logical argument on the topic.

 

Silver star, to you, sir.

 

Yes, I'll admit that. There are a log of cues given at the bottom of the screen just because... a lot of cues are given at the bottom of the screen. Adding another one isn't really that outside-the-norm. It could definitely fit in and serve a purpose.

 

That said, I'm still not convinced that we need it. I still have far more complex information to sort out from the middle of the screen (spatial relationships of other mobs, what mobs/players are stunned, incoming effects)... at least, assuming we haven't fallen into the fully mindless Holy Trinity setup (one tank with all mobs surrounding him, medic healing tank, everyone else mindlessly tapping out their pre-arranged works-for-everything rotations). The day I spend the majority of a fight staring at the bottom of my screen, is the day I unsubscribe. I want a video game --and an RPG-- not a $15-a-month game of Simon.

 

I can see some usefulness, just not enough to warrant the amount of whining it receives. It still feels like whining for a crutch instead of using your brain to adapt to complex situations. Yeah, its going to affect your "score". If your happiness is lowered by the fact that you can't get a high enough "score" in this game, then you need to step away from the keyboard and seek professional counseling.

 

And again, if you can't figure it out for yourself as it is now, then consider that part of the game rules. I also don't have time-to-intercept stats on course tracks either. I have to do that by eye, too. I don't know how long I have to wait before a party members ability is available again. I have to either guess or ask them. Failing to have Target-of-Target is just another limitation in the same family. If you have a brain, you can deal with it.

 

Otherwise, an inability to assess battle just became another one of your characters special abilities. Roleplay it.

[Vydor_HC]

For me, I don't care to see it in the game. It was in Rift and I used it for a while and it made the game much much easier than playing without it. For some, that is a must to have, for others...complexity and challenge are far more appealing.

 

Obviously this comes down to whether Bioware wants it in the game or not, as it's not going to really cost them subs either way. They are aware of the mechanic because it is in the game, in a manner Bioware thought was appropriate.

 

So, if Bioware decides to throw it in, meh, I just forgo the option and have pity for those that must have something of that sort to play the game.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Vydor_HC

[Mortaria]

The whole UI is atrocious and seems like the output of a junior programmer that has nothing to do with MMO gaming altogether.

Just because they tried to make it different does not mean it is actually practical or better it is bad design from scratch. Starting with toolbar positioning and overlapping with your companion toolbar to player and target frames stuck in place on the center screen toolbars, different yes better no..by a long shot.

UI customization is coming but if i can only make the frames (char/target) smaller and are still glued to the toolbar i gain nothing at all, only making the already hard to spot buffs/debufs smaller and harfer to interpret.

Dont try to reinvent the wheel its already there, please don't shoot your self in the foot releasing a UI customization that lacks the functionality already there but all triple A MMO's.

 

^This..

Also not a fan of only having four hotbars. This makes customizing hotbars for what role I am filling at the moment in my group impossible. This isn't innovative or groundbreaking design. It's just poorly thought out and implemented design.

 

Anyways.. on topic....

 

"Target of Target" and "Smart Targeting" are an evolution of the assist macros used in older MMO's from 10-13 years ago ( as mentioned previously ). Not having these standard features in a new MMO from a "top of the line" company is shocking to me.

 

My thoughts from a healer's perspective

 

So we have an assist key ( an assist macro ) from 1999-ish. This in itself is not gamebreaking imho. When added to the other responsibilities healers face: interrupts, status cures, additional dps, environmental awareness, (my personal favorite) utilizing secondary randomly generated resources off our tiny buffbar, and actually healing. The whole thing becomes a cluster to play with any semblance of efficiency.

 

Under current game mechanics I'm left with the choice of either jabbing the assist key after very GCD twice to get the information I would get from "Target of Target" or being a lazy player doing just healing.

 

Adding 2 extra keystrokes to EVERY action I do in a group or raid does not make the game harder to play ( as some of you touting the "Target of Target is for lazy players" claim ) , It just makes it more annoying.

 

At the end of the day, skilled players will still be good and bad players will still be bad.

and I'll still be astounded at how this User Interface made it to release

[iamnoobplzhelp]

I think he means, theres no window that always shows your Target's Target, not a Command that you HAVE to press Alt+T to change your Target, to their Target. Not Efficient, Not Good.

 

You can always change it to whatever you want

[Coramac]

That said, I'm still not convinced that we need it. I still have far more complex information to sort out from the middle of the screen (spatial relationships of other mobs, what mobs/players are stunned, incoming effects)... at least, assuming we haven't fallen into the fully mindless Holy Trinity setup (one tank with all mobs surrounding him, medic healing tank, everyone else mindlessly tapping out their pre-arranged works-for-everything rotations). The day I spend the majority of a fight staring at the bottom of my screen, is the day I unsubscribe. I want a video game --and an RPG-- not a $15-a-month game of Simon.

 

A post I like. Sadly, we're more or less in the Trinity set up. It's kind of sad. The game were "Trinity" likely originated was the least Trinity oriented MMO I've played.

 

I can see some usefulness, just not enough to warrant the amount of whining it receives. It still feels like whining for a crutch instead of using your brain to adapt to complex situations. Yeah, its going to affect your "score". If your happiness is lowered by the fact that you can't get a high enough "score" in this game, then you need to step away from the keyboard and seek professional counseling.

 

This is where we agree and disagree. I really like Add Ons and macros. I hate threat meters. I hate Boss Mods. I hate 1 button does-it-all macro gameplay. Let's say you are attacking a healer, and you see a Juggernaught using a channeled Force Choke on an ally. If I have macros set up and good targeting functions, I can probably interupt without switching targets. If not, I can switch targets, interupt, and switch back very easily. Without them, I'm clicking or tabbing.

 

Macros and good targeting functions have increased difficulty levels in game, not made them easier. They give you the ability to actually act on situational awareness rather than be impotent.

[Partyrockk]

Acquire Target's Target.

 

This does not work as it reads. It should.

 

For example: Fight begins, and I know the tank's target right off the bat. Cool, using the key bind would be more efficient, but I graphically see it. Oh wait, someone broke a CC. It's ok, I can re-CC and heal them up. Meanwhile, the tank has finished the kill of the original target and now two mobs are attacking him. I'll toss a heal on the tank. Good. Now... I need to figure out which mob he is attacking; we need to keep a focus fire up. But wait, graphically it's difficult to see without wasting time just standing around watching health drop. Hell, maybe I'm selecting the wrong one, because another party member started range dpsing it.

 

Which one is the tank's target?

 

Why can't I just press "Acquire Target's Target" to see? Select the tank and press it, right? Nothing. It seems there are work-arounds using focus and swap focus if you preemptively know the situation will require your focus back to the tank's target. What if he dies? Why complicate it like that? What the hell does "Acquire Target's Target" even do? Does it just work if you target a mob, and see who they're currently beating up?

 

If it's purity in RPG people are concerned about, this is the kind of game where a technology would be realistically acceptable in such a capability of finding what an ally is fighting via one action, or key.

 

What am I missing here? What does "Acquire Target's Target" do? No I haven't read through the entire thread because it's cluttered with tangents to this simple question.

[Coramac]

What am I missing here? What does "Acquire Target's Target" do? No I haven't read through the entire thread because it's cluttered with tangents to this simple question.

 

I kind of touched a little on this earlier. Modern MMOs have become significantly easier and it's not as critical in many PvE encounters. It does add some efficiency and add a lot to quality of life for some classes in a game like this where classes have some limited dual functionality. Where it's really most critical now is PvP.