annihilation sucks vs geared 50s

[Kaluah]

Im pretty sure kinetic damage is mitigated by armor. Smash is kinetic

 

This isnt WoW.

 

Elemental and Internal bypass normal armor. Energy and Kinetic dont.

 

Plus you passively negate part of a person's armor as rage.

 

So... your saying what?? your arguing against yourself..you said we do more dps as rage? how? smash is kinetic and jugs do way more dmg with smash... and the whole wow reference is just old now.. i can say things like "i never played wow" and that somehow legitimizes my comments?

[Caliban_Thule]

So... your saying what?? your arguing against yourself..you said we do more dps as rage? how? smash is kinetic and jugs do way more dmg with smash... and the whole wow reference is just old now.. i can say things like "i never played wow" and that somehow legitimizes my comments?

 

In WoW most spells cut through armor, its not like that in this game. It would be a common mistake. Smash is mitigated by armor, just like most attacks.

 

All of our other attacks will do more damage though. So less burst more DPS. I fail to see where your problem with that lies.

 

Plus we have fury, meaning we can pop out much higher DPS for a short time, even minus the second saber. Plus I believe we have better rage generation

Edited January 26, 2012 by Caliban_Thule

[zizzo]

Annhilation is pretty darn good at lvl 50 if you asked me. Rage was good at low lvl when ppl hade half of the HP pool they have today. Carnage is also nice but the flow with annhilation is just better imo. Could change the annhilate stack system tho, instead of reducing the cd of each annhilate after using it, it would be better if the stacking part of the combo would increase the dmg rather then the cd:o

[Kaluah]

In WoW most spells cut through armor, its not like that in this game. It would be a common mistake. Smash is mitigated by armor, just like most attacks.

 

All of our other attacks will do more damage though. So less burst more DPS. I fail to see where your problem with that lies.

 

Plus we have fury, meaning we can pop out much higher DPS for a short time, even minus the second saber. Plus I believe we have better rage generation

 

yea i totally agree on the pve dps side of things dont get me wrong. Not that we would pve dps as rage but anyway i digress.

 

Im just stating that in pvp our class lacks burst dmg in other trees, so we spec rage for some burst. Jugs have better burst and therefore they have the ability to play as rage much more effectively in pvp considering their native dmg reduction tools also. Im really dissapointed with the lack of synergy in the marauder trees. If you have a look at alot of other classes, jugs are a good example.. operatives.. sorcs.. they really benefit from their secondary tree. We kinda get lackluster "oh well might as well get that" talents early in trees. This not only allows for less customization of specs, it also makes the class feel.. rushed/ unfinished imo.

[Kaluah]

yea i totally agree on the pve dps side of things dont get me wrong. Not that we would pve dps as rage but anyway i digress.

 

Im just stating that in pvp our class lacks burst dmg in other trees, so we spec rage for some burst. Jugs have better burst and therefore they have the ability to play as rage much more effectively in pvp considering their native dmg reduction tools also. Im really dissapointed with the lack of synergy in the marauder trees. If you have a look at alot of other classes, jugs are a good example.. operatives.. sorcs.. they really benefit from their secondary tree. We kinda get lackluster "oh well might as well get that" talents early in trees. This not only allows for less customization of specs, it also makes the class feel.. rushed/ unfinished imo.

 

I also think the Fury system, while an awesome concept could be simplified to make it much more usefull in all trees. I mean fury in rage spec is nowhere near as important as it is in say.. ani. And thats because its a shared talent tree and i understand that. But what if say... fury gave 3 diff types of buffs that were across the board for all spec.

 

eg, no cooldown on these, just limited to fury generation.

 

Berserker "Converts 30 stacks of Fury into 15% dmg increase for 30 secs

Marauder : "converts 30 stacks of fury into 30% move speed bla bla

Champion: converts fury into in combat hp regen

these i just came up with as i wrote down to put across a global use for fury in all trees.

 

scrap all the skills this would overwrite appart from maybe grp 15% dmg buff.

i think this would make fury the backbone of the class as the 15% dmg would really help all trees especially carnage and rage. And lets face it.. with 5 stacks of juyo and good gear most of our bleeds crit anyway.. our dmg isnt scaling well and a a percentage increase will aid that problem.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Kaluah

[bushkalle]

Annhilation is pretty darn good at lvl 50 if you asked me. Rage was good at low lvl when ppl hade half of the HP pool they have today. Carnage is also nice but the flow with annhilation is just better imo. Could change the annhilate stack system tho, instead of reducing the cd of each annhilate after using it, it would be better if the stacking part of the combo would increase the dmg rather then the cd:o

 

Wouldnt be to bad, like that it increased the damage with 2-3% so 6-9% total.. and maby make it last longer then 15 sec to 20 or so. Alot more to keep track of in PvP then just when you should use your next Annhi. So 5 sec would do quite alot at times, but of course its a matter of attention when playing to keep track of it. But with the remove of the lowered cd it would be needed to maby increase the stack time to 20 sec anyway if the ability got a 15 sec cd.

 

But personaly I enjoy Annhilation most since it got that flow and rotation thats nice and stable.. and if people knock you off it'll keep doing dps and for exampel on Sorc's remove the shield to when you charged up again and can get some dps off before the shield can be recast (or even dead). I'd rank Rage second (for the burst and mobility + slow bleed is awesome in alot of situations) and Carnage last since I feel that the immobolizing effects bug out half the time with Ravage and all.. most people run out of it anyway halfway trough without using their unleash.

 

 

As I wrote in another thread for Rage tho as an idea was:

 

"Something I've been thinking about tho is that we should have something else instead of Smash with Rage or in general, considering that we are a lightsaber agile class, why would we smash our fist in to the ground?

Suits Juggernauts/Guardians but why not make something thats similar that replaces Smash when you chose Marauder/Sentinel as AC to "Lightsaber Dance" (name just poped up) where we hit with both lightsabers in a short quick dance. Making it hit like Smash in area and damage.

Then our 36% offhand damage would actually be of much more use when playing Rage. Would be a cool thing and make us stand out a bit more when playing Rage from Juggernauts and make us a bit closer damage wise within the same specc (since Juggers have the 30% damage increase and we got the 36% offhand damage that would affect the dance).

And maby, maby put in that the Dance would do 10% more damage when you have 3/3 in the offhand damage talent so it increase Dance damage by 3.33% eatch talent togheter with the 12% (depends on how much the 36% OH damage would do for the ability in general). That in the end would make it with 3/3 increasing OH damage with 36% and Lightsaber Dance with 10% damage when used."

 

After some more thinking I think the 10% increase aint needed since we got the rage and cd reduction with the starting talents in Annhi, but the rest I wouldnt mind seeing.. still feels like we would get something unique. If you think of it as well the Jugger do have one hand free to smash in to the ground .

 

Some willl say "its a shared specc should be the same".. well should it? I mean.. We are a dps class and Juggers are a hybrid, if you lock at Lethality for IA's it isnt exactly the same, if you look at Madness for Inquisitors it isnt exactly the same (I know one is ranged and one is melee, but still you get the point). So.. is there anything saying that Rage have to be spot on the same?

 

 

And as some one said earlier, it still feels like we are a bit of an experiment, and that I've feelt for a while as well. I think the class is great now, but when its been tweaked a bit more it will be awesome to play (not awesome as in overpowered but as in kickass fun to play).

 

 

Edited January 26, 2012 by bushkalle

[ReFlexionn]

so after spending more cash to try carnage and rage again(lol)

rage: very good if u fight noobs,if the delay doesn't screw you up, if there's a pack of ppl that stand still, obliterate is awesome when u get pushed back and your FC is on cd(if u use it as soon as u see the push back animation)

 

conclusion 1: very good vs noobs, not good vs good pvpers or moving targets,unless if you want to spam vicious slash,if you get stun all your build up for your spikes are gone

 

Carnage,it's fun however, u need to constantly look if your blood frenzy is up, STAY on the target which is not rly a problem cuz u run 15% faster + a "root" but the dmg of force scream is too close to the dmg of a Rage force scream( when it crits) which is a bit sad,Gore is fun, but the GCD makes that 6s of 100% armor pen a 4.5sec, leaving you with only 3 skills that will benefit that debuff or you can waste that time on ravage( your damage will be a bit better but it's not because ravage makes your enemy not move that it doesn't mean it can't get interrupted by a knock back or an interrupt skill) aaand the force camo 100% movement impairing effect remove is awesome

 

Conclusion2: it is a fun build however the dmg from that tree is a bit lacking, this tree is more for mobility than dmg tree tbh

 

Annihilation: Dots + heals, the longer the fight, the better for you.It takes a few time to set up your dots, but it pays you back by damaging your enemy inside no matter how strong his armor is and with the bonus of healing you back, the main dps skill of that tree demands lots of rage but it hits harder than a Rage spec smash without the force choke 100% dmg increase ticks on crits and in addition has a high chance to reset rapture( dot which also slows your target if you spec) the lower cooldown of FC and the shorter requirement range gives you a 2nd interrupt and makes your enemy not able to move for 2-3 sec( if u added the extra sec(which i don't recommend btw))ALSO you have a 6 sec cd interrupt( 4 sec that they can't use the same skill)and a lower cd of accuracy reduce which will save your arse because it would be like a saber ward on you when you see "parry" or "dodge"

 

Conclusion 3: annihilation is not suggested for clickers or people that cannot manage their rage/debuff, you need to pay attention to your cooldowns/rage AND the enemy at the same time to be able to make that spec shine meaning it is more recommended to not noob marauders, you should NOT have issues getting kited with this tree

 

Final conclusion:

rage = plz, reroll jugg, why would you want a weaker version of this burst-noob/zerg effective tree if you get it better as a jugg?

Carnage = if you love to have more mobility for less damage, take it

Annihilation =don't take this tree if you don't know how to manage and keybind, it will hurt you more than it helps you, but if you can do it, you'll be able to wreck any 1 v 1 unless if you had a handicap, you won't see the HUGE numbers, but if you calculate your ticks and add em up, you'll see that it's actually huge and you build fury so daaamn fast.

Edited January 26, 2012 by ReFlexionn

[Sayc]

Berserker "Converts 30 stacks of Fury into 15% dmg increase for 30 secs

Marauder : "converts 30 stacks of fury into 30% move speed bla bla

 

Bloodthirst, predation.

[Phyrexianist]

rage is better =/ tired of 1500 annihilate hits and low dot ticks.

 

Muh Dots Tick for 1500... My Annihilate hits for 3500+...

But I'm in mostly champ and some bm.

 

Even then though the link in my Sig was from when I had Zero PvP gear and I could 2 v 1 + get 2700+ crits.

[Biboonz]

biggest hit i had from an annihilate was 4750 with an expertise adrenal , it surprised me a bit , in a good way. it regularly hits for 3k+tho , 3 stacks deadly saber crit for 1400ish without adrenals , and the dots from rupture about 400-450ish .

annihilation is my fav spec by a long shot , also talented predation addiction is something real .

[vinviper]

Anni =/= Rage

Just depends on your playing style.

inb4 "OMG IF YOU WANT RAGE TO PLAY JUGG" well, if you wanna play a warrior at all go play jugg. Any good marauder would do x2 as good if they were jugg.

 

As far as carnage goes, snares are nice and all but the other 2 trees are better suited for pvp. You could argue that it has the 15% passive speed boost, but with anni I almost always have predation up with the added 30% boost. From what I noticed leveling up with carnage, it has the best rage management, which seems good consistent damage for pve.

^ No, I have not tested that

 

With annihilation I really have no trouble 1v1'ing any class. Even if healers dispell all of my dots, with 2 points specced into the interrupt the CD is too short for them to get a heal off. Some trouble fighting operative/scoundrel (or as my group calls them, gay cowboys) if they catch me without my trinket up. (no need to nerf operatives...just reduce trinket cooldown, too much cc in this game for a 2min CD kthnx)

[Averji]

http://tinypic.com/r/1z4x0sp/5

http://tinypic.com/r/demlcn/5

 

These were each my last games of the night yesterday and today, If you want I will post all my damage done for every game of the night I just kept forgetting to take SS's of my scoreboard. I solo queue, constantly 300k+ damage. Its not just about the nice smash crits, its just better damage overall with crush obliterate vicious slash berserk etc.

 

 

 

 

BTW I am full champ geared besides for my centurion gloves, and battlemaster earpiece and 2 implants.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Averji

[Averji]

please people just go rage tired of these posts of people putting up videos of themselves as carnage and live streams of them annihilation doing weak damage.

 

I am getting a better much stronger internet connection on 1/31. Starting than I will be live streaming HD every day me playing as rage spec on my marauder. None of this baby annihilation or carnage numbers crap.

 

 

twitch.tv/cantthink278 will be up on the 31st. Much better than these silly gooses pvping in other specs. Rage is the way to go and i'll prove it than.

[Sayc]

please people just go rage tired of these posts of people putting up videos of themselves as carnage and live streams of them annihilation doing weak damage.

 

Its really funny when you say stuff like this, and only put up a 400k picture.

 

With 8 deaths too. Quite amusing.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Sayc

[Averji]

Its really funny when you say stuff like this, and only put up a 400k picture.

 

With 8 deaths too. Quite amusing.

 

u mean the game with 8 deaths that i didnt have a full team once? look at the amount of people that left/joined the game. the whole game people were leaving on my team obviously i died alot without a team and somehow still had 400k.

 

 

and please find me a marauder that is putting up these numbers daily with other specs.

[Biboonz]

When i played rage i felt it was weak 1v1 , or 1v2 wich is the type of gameplay i prefer, and the fun side of the big numbers distracted me from the actual proper moves to do in the WZs and had me looking for packs of enemies to destroy. Sure it made big numbers , but its rage generation is weak , its stack generation is weak , mobility is ok i guess . I pretty much destroy every mara/sent or Jugg/guard that are rage spec that i've faced in warzones or illum because its easy to see they are rage spec and then quite easy to disrupt their setup or execution. I'm totaly aware that maybe i faced poor players of that spec . I might also have played it poorly , its just that after trying the 3 specs for a length of time i kept coming back to annihilation because i thought it was the most well rounded one and the best for my tastes and gameplay.

 

Also scoreboard damage numbers are a poor indication as there are too many factors involved, for exemple solo Qing usually nets me much more damage than playing with guildmates. 1st because i tend to play objectives only , and finish huttball matches with like 20k dmg done, 2nd because having more skilled players than the average pugs compeeting with you in the damage race simply means there is less damage for you to do because they will do it. I still had 350 to 400k dmg voidstar matches as annihilation tho, with my 2 other guildmate dpses in the 300k+ as well. ( and thats with 0 or 1 death usually )

Edited January 26, 2012 by Biboonz

[Naethion]

u mean the game with 8 deaths that i didnt have a full team once? look at the amount of people that left/joined the game. the whole game people were leaving on my team obviously i died alot without a team and somehow still had 400k.

 

 

and please find me a marauder that is putting up these numbers daily with other specs.

 

Annihilation is good. I have seen 2-4k annihilation's, dots critting 500 a tick repeatedly. Like any warrior class Gear matters immensely. Go check out Stamps Stream if you don't believe me, he is Annihilation.

[Averji]

Annihilation is good. I have seen 2-4k annihilation's, dots critting 500 a tick repeatedly. Like any warrior class Gear matters immensely. Go check out Stamps Stream if you don't believe me, he is Annihilation.

 

i watched his stream and it was nothing special, rage is better. Sorry all of you can sit here and try to tell me annihilation is better but ive been respeccing almost every day wasting money the past 2 weeks from annihilation to rage, ask my guild, and rage is better.

 

 

Once i have the BM gear any of these geared annihilation streamers have I will blow them out of the water. But even now without it I can probably still own them.

[Averji]

u guys all think what you want. keep enjoying the annihilation videos. just respec to rage smash spec and you'll see. im done on this post. enjoy my stream when its up. Edited January 26, 2012 by Averji

[Naethion]

No one is trying to convince you of anything Rage is okay, but its just a stupid Smash fest. Viable? Completely, its definitely a threat, but everyone has their own play style. People like rage, and some like Carnage. Saying Rage is the End-All, Be-All spec is completely wrong. Enjoy Rage spec, and I will enjoy Carnage, and Stmp will Enjoy Annihilate. Agree to Disagree

[Biboonz]

don't go around telling people that every one is entitled to their opinion man , it doesn't suit these forums

 

common sense will get the thread locked maybe

[EasymodeX]

and please find me a marauder that is putting up these numbers daily with other specs.

 

I put up those numbers daily with either Annihilation or Rage, and I come reasonably close with Carnage.

 

You are overrating yourself, and Rage spec, by a bit there.

Edited January 26, 2012 by EasymodeX

[Naethion]

don't go around telling people that every one is entitled to their opinion man , it doesn't suit these forums

 

common sense will get the thread locked maybe

 

Noted.

[Kresse]

Rage is top dog for PVP at the moment, if only for Smash autocritting upwards of 4-5k with proper cooldown use, not to mention it strikes all targets in range. Since PVP is such a fustercluck with everyone grouping up all the time, it outshines Carn/Anni with the grace of a dumptruck.

 

The pure burst output of Rage (my fave is Force Crush > Obliterate > Force Scream > Smash > w/e else I can do with my rage) tends to just end peoples' days, so long as people continue not to take marauders seriously. I was in Civil War with 3 other maras, and the four of us just butt-stomped the enemy team wherever we went by syncing up Smash and force choke to down healers and just destroy their protectors.

[Kaluah]

Wouldnt be to bad, like that it increased the damage with 2-3% so 6-9% total.. and maby make it last longer then 15 sec to 20 or so. Alot more to keep track of in PvP then just when you should use your next Annhi. So 5 sec would do quite alot at times, but of course its a matter of attention when playing to keep track of it. But with the remove of the lowered cd it would be needed to maby increase the stack time to 20 sec anyway if the ability got a 15 sec cd.

 

But personaly I enjoy Annhilation most since it got that flow and rotation thats nice and stable.. and if people knock you off it'll keep doing dps and for exampel on Sorc's remove the shield to when you charged up again and can get some dps off before the shield can be recast (or even dead). I'd rank Rage second (for the burst and mobility + slow bleed is awesome in alot of situations) and Carnage last since I feel that the immobolizing effects bug out half the time with Ravage and all.. most people run out of it anyway halfway trough without using their unleash.

 

 

As I wrote in another thread for Rage tho as an idea was:

 

"Something I've been thinking about tho is that we should have something else instead of Smash with Rage or in general, considering that we are a lightsaber agile class, why would we smash our fist in to the ground?

Suits Juggernauts/Guardians but why not make something thats similar that replaces Smash when you chose Marauder/Sentinel as AC to "Lightsaber Dance" (name just poped up) where we hit with both lightsabers in a short quick dance. Making it hit like Smash in area and damage.

Then our 36% offhand damage would actually be of much more use when playing Rage. Would be a cool thing and make us stand out a bit more when playing Rage from Juggernauts and make us a bit closer damage wise within the same specc (since Juggers have the 30% damage increase and we got the 36% offhand damage that would affect the dance).

And maby, maby put in that the Dance would do 10% more damage when you have 3/3 in the offhand damage talent so it increase Dance damage by 3.33% eatch talent togheter with the 12% (depends on how much the 36% OH damage would do for the ability in general). That in the end would make it with 3/3 increasing OH damage with 36% and Lightsaber Dance with 10% damage when used."

 

After some more thinking I think the 10% increase aint needed since we got the rage and cd reduction with the starting talents in Annhi, but the rest I wouldnt mind seeing.. still feels like we would get something unique. If you think of it as well the Jugger do have one hand free to smash in to the ground .

 

Some willl say "its a shared specc should be the same".. well should it? I mean.. We are a dps class and Juggers are a hybrid, if you lock at Lethality for IA's it isnt exactly the same, if you look at Madness for Inquisitors it isnt exactly the same (I know one is ranged and one is melee, but still you get the point). So.. is there anything saying that Rage have to be spot on the same?

 

 

And as some one said earlier, it still feels like we are a bit of an experiment, and that I've feelt for a while as well. I think the class is great now, but when its been tweaked a bit more it will be awesome to play (not awesome as in overpowered but as in kickass fun to play).

 

 

 

I agree, stupid that a class with more mitigation does more dmg with the same spec. They will nerf jugs when they should be buffing maras like you said.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Kaluah