Sudden intelligence

[Icza]

Imagine the uproar on Rift if 90% of the playerbase sat in a queue day 1, and 50% sat in a queue day 2, and none of them had any idea how long they would be there.

 

Would that have been a successful launch?

 

So why is it for TOR? Because they window dressed it as a staggered launch, which was really just a 1 to 2 day queue for the majority of players?

 

Negative. Not in my eyes.

Look at it how you want, but they told us in July how this was going to happen, and it was quite clear. There were no complaints until EGA started and people got impatient.

 

Also, nobody has a right to even be playing yet, since the release is the 20th and ega was advertised to start on the 15th. So game time that you pay for, including the first free month, isn't even being counted yet.

 

Not having access doesn't mean we're in a queue. Having access and sitting in a queue would be being in a queue.

 

If it was so dang important to play right away then you shoulda pre-ordered in July. If you were a member of the site and cared about the game at all you got the same e-mail I did telling you to pre-order and how EGA was going to work.

[Ellanen]

I actually like what they have done. When i got the preorder i was told "UP TO 5 DAYS EARLY ACCESS". Nowhere did I read that I was to for sure have 5 days early access.

 

When they said they were going to start invites 7 days early access, i was like ...ooh maybe I can get in early (I didn't, but I understand I registered my code too late for that). Then was like...well I'll be lucky to get a day early access. But that's better than waiting for launch day to play like my neighbors have too.

 

Turns out I'm getting a full 5 days access. I'm extremely excited and happy with this. They under promised and are over delivering.

 

I really congratulate them on thinking this launch out so well.

 

By the time I get to play half of the people on the preorder are already going to be past the first couple of worlds, which will make my drop quests all the easier to complete (do you remember launch day for WoW? I do not want to experience all of that again).

 

I suggest you all stop nerd raging and sit down and think rationally about all of this, and stop sounding like a whining spoiled child. And be happy we didn't all have to wait to play the 20th at the same time.

 

As for the sudden "intelligence"? They wanted to see how the first two days of invites went. Now they have an idea of how many are truly entering, and how the servers are filling. I am willing to bet they get into December tomorrow, with their history of under promising and over delivering.

 

Just think of the past 2 days as a bonus. Its too bad not everyone got in, but at least we all are getting in a little sooner because of it.

 

So I want to point something out.

 

You lose credibility when you use terms like whining spoiled child in response to what was actually a fairly well mannered post.

 

There was no nerd raging in the OP at all - so your response makes you seem as if you're overreacting.

 

Just pointing it out.

 

In related news, I have found that for me the issue was the lack of communication from Bioware. Yes, I want to play and yes, it's possible I'll get in tomorrow. But what got under my skin was not knowing even remotely when I'd be getting in... NOT the fact that I did not get on the first or second day.

 

As the carebear alwaysrollsahealer player that I am, I level slooooowly and I think my only server first in any game was getting a title for getting a lot of hugs. I can hear you all now... aaaaawwwwwwwwwww........

 

So I am happy along with the OP that we at least have a rough idea when we can get in. Now I just have to restock the snack supply that I put a serious dent in trying to see if the Reddit stats were accurate...

[Neofate]

In an attempt to understand there perspective.

 

Can anyone think of some logical reasons what they have done here is now possible when as before, it wasn't?

 

Sure.

 

They first had the metrics of the beta tests -- but that was roughly 900,000 people, with 250,000 online at max.

 

This is scaled up many times that.

 

They first didn't want to paint themselves into a corner,.. so they remained "flexible" or in other words gave themselves an out if anything happened negatively on their servers.

 

IE: If they said.. ok we will invite Dates X-Y on day 1,.. Dates A-B on day 2.. and so on.. then they DIDN'T meet those dates.. how livid would people be? Sort of like choosing the lesser of two evils. That was and is smart business.

 

Now -- it has been two solid days.. and things have gone as well as they could have hoped for. No crashes.. only one server going under maintenance for a short while..

 

So they are much more confident on what the other say 40% of the invites will be like.

 

So finally they can give us a bit of a clue,.. and not worry so much about not living up to it.

 

EVEN with this clue, there is an "ish" -- so if they get to November 13th.. they still are 'ok'. If they manage to finish out November completely and get to Dec 1st.. they are great!

 

Finally.. if they manage to finish up the invites somehow.. then people will be exuberant and praise them.

 

If the latter happened, they not only had a perfect launch, smooth, but would have also met ALL 5 days that weren't PROMISED, but indicated as something that could possibly happened based on when one entered their pre-order code.

 

So basically, it is all about information and confidence in the process they decided to utilize for launch. It IS working, has remained stable.. so it looks very much like the rest of the launch will continue the same way.. and , at least, through EGA things will be smooth.

 

Come the 20th, we shall see .. but people will be spread out on levels... and not rushing the servers as they would if there wasn't an early access -- so it really is all smart.

 

The ONLY problem I've seen with all of this is a bit of lack of communication -- and with the communication alot of vagueness.. and obviously the re-neg on the Grace period. Which I STILL think needs to be instated for at least 1 day.

 

Anyhow,.. those are my thoughts.. Take care.

[Dalmac]

I highly doubt that if they gave any time frame from the start the QQing would have been much less. IMO people complain about anything there is. Instead of the when should i expect to get in QQ itwould have just been more threads about the servers showing low-moderate and crying about they could have just let more in the game, ect...

 

I would of gone and done something else if they told me Nov will get in dec. 15th not sat here reading posts and checking my email for 2 days for no reason at all. Yes some will always complain, but you could stop at least half of it with days you will gain access. They have known this release schedule for awhile.

 

I would much rather be told you will have access on the 15th and then told on the 15th it is delayed till the 16th. Than to have to watch and listen for two days when you never had a chance at all of getting in. You just wasted hours and they knew you were watching and waiting but were never getting in and didn't care enough to tell you.

 

Ya I know wha wha , anyone want a salty beer ?

[kiern]

Imagine the uproar on Rift if 90% of the playerbase sat in a queue day 1, and 50% sat in a queue day 2, and none of them had any idea how long they would be there.

 

Would that have been a successful launch?

 

So why is it for TOR? Because they window dressed it as a staggered launch, which was really just a 1 to 2 day queue for the majority of players?

 

Negative. Not in my eyes.

 

Sorry, but your comparisons are ridiculous. It is not like sitting in a server queue. Until you get the email, you know that you aren't getting in. That means that you can go about your life and do other things, rather than sitting in front of your computer waiting to get out of a queue. It is kind of sad that your life seems to revolve around getting into this game. Excitement is one thing, this is something else.

 

You don't look at the positive impact that staggering has, because all you can focus on is that you aren't in. Well, the world doesn't revolve around you, and they do what they feel is best for the majority.

[Daylyn]

Yes, you are right, this post was well mannered. But I have also been looking at the forums for the past few days, and I have finally decided to respond. I suppose you can call it the straw that broke the camel's back. Edited December 15, 2011 by Daylyn

[Stina]

It possibly was from some observations I made.

 

Technically, you can view their staggered launch as a "queue" just like you would an ingame queue.

 

Except this queue did not have a place in line you could observe like a server queue, did not have an estimate on how long youd be in line, and was literally days long.

 

It isnt about the staggering at all.

 

It was about leaving people in a queue for days with zero information on where they were or how long they would be there; this kind of lack of basic customer service certainly wouldnt fly in many other places.

 

Take for instance the DMV: imagine if they removed the number counter, removed tickets at all, and told you after checking, "Ok sir, sit in the lobby and we will call you when we are ready. We dont know how long it will take and we dont know how many are in front of you. You could be here all day or after waiting all day, come back tomorrow."

 

Do you think that would fly?

 

From an objective viewpoint, their EGA was technically a launch that had a multiple DAY queue. Anyone know of any other MMO launches that had half their playerbase waiting for DAYS in a queue with no idea how long they would be there?

 

Its basic customer service. I'm glad to see they are catching on, but honestly, its too little too late. The damage was done.

 

 

But, you see, the thing is this.

 

They offered 5 days, contingent, in the first place.

 

WE ARE STILL ONE DAY AHEAD OF THE AHEAD TIME!!!

 

(I know no more invites are being made)

 

They WERE clear. They told you how many waves, they told you they were inviting on a first come first serve basis. They told you what time they were starting. They told you each wave that they did.

 

THEN they allowed a bonus amount in.

 

They did this the next day, with more information regarding an increased amount of people being added.

 

They then gave you information about what the NEXT day's "wave" would look like, with dates added.

 

Gee, I wonder WHY they didn't TELL you how things were going to go.

 

Maybe, just MAYBE they were testing the waters with the first wave.

 

Tweaking it with the second.

 

And can give you a more accurate depiction the third time.

 

With just the SLIGHTEST amount of common knowledge, common sense, basic estimation, and an understanding of the English language, along with the basic understandings of corporations, businesses, and commerce works, then you would understand why this was a good idea.

 

YES we are effectively in queue.

 

YES it is fair to wait in line.

 

YES you will be able to play, read the stickies.

 

Pay attention, for goodness' sake --for crying out LOUD!

 

Waiting a couple days to get to play a game EARLIER than everyone else is NOT the end of the world.

 

You agreed to these terms and conditions when you purchased the game.

 

It's really not a very difficult concept if you just read and pay attention.

 

/ENDRAGE

[Neofate]

Personally I don't like SWTOR way of handling PR and customers. Technically game has been better than any other I've beta I've played.

 

But the logistics and even the moderation attitude this forum is worst so far. There seems to be mentality that instead of addressing problems they rather close threads. I tried even make sarcastic thread about them closing EGA threads. Did without any profanity and they dropped it giving me warning for it.

 

If that wasn't recursive joke that proves the point I don't know which is. Looked code of conduct and didn't find the slot which my thread would have belonged.

 

I'll be keeping myself arms length away from customer care side of SWTOR now on.

 

+1

 

Well said, and totally agree. Bioware really needs to have a meeting with the customer care and rethink their approach on 'handling' the exuberant number of people. Closing threads is not a solution. Not a sole here is thinking, man I wish all these threads would continuously get closed.

 

If anyone wants to know anything official, they read the official stickies and dev tracker.

 

Otherwise, they know , right now, given the nature of the situation -- there are going to be alot of speculatory posts and guessing. With some 'QQ' as it were.

 

We don't need moderators randomly closing threads to keep it tidy. This place is far from tidy, and it isn't expected to be tidy at launch.

 

After launch starts, it will be quite different.

 

I can see arguments, or other such creating the need to close threads. But when people are being genuine about what they say, taking the time to express themselves, closing their threads is a slap in the face.

 

*This is not an insult to the staff -- I just don't agree with some of the methods, respectfully disagree.

 

Be well,

[SlyJeff]

Two days of statistics on how many people are actually taking the invites, when they are showing up (TZ and when they get the invite or when they get home from work). More stats on any of the changes that were implemented after last stage beta (I didn't expect any but have seen claims of slower leveling and more choices on some models which may have been troll and may have been real).

 

To be honest, they're using something damned close to the release model we use at the hospital where I work which is actually pretty reassuring to me in comparison to the SOE model and even some of the early faux pas events with Blizzard.

 

Quoting for emphasis.

 

This kind of staged deployment is how professional software developers release software. If BW made a mistake, it was assuming that people would prefer to have a plesant experience when they first log in rather than than a crappy experience just so everyone starts at the same time. Except I think they made the right choice and most people will get more enjoyment the way they did it.

 

The reason they didn't communicate more at the beginning was because they had very little to go on. If they said something and were way off, they'd tick more people off than they are right now. One thing I've learned as a software developer- making estimates is a crap shoot, especially when you are held to them. Until you get into a project there really is just no way to know how it's going to go down.

 

As I've said before, this professional approach gives me a great deal of confidence in this product. And I am a late december pre-order, so I will probably be in the last wave. I know very little about BW, so I'm no fanboi- I'm just a software developer who knows quality when he sees it.

[Bazistan]

Take for instance the DMV: imagine if they removed the number counter, removed tickets at all, and told you after checking, "Ok sir, sit in the lobby and we will call you when we are ready. We dont know how long it will take and we dont know how many are in front of you. You could be here all day or after waiting all day, come back tomorrow."

 

Do you think that would fly?

 

 

** Not meant as a personal attack....just an observation on the point. No, I don't have an EGA yet**

 

Ever been to a Starbucks? A Drive-in restuarant? A busy popular resturant? I could go on and on how all of us wait without knowing how long it would be at many very successful businesses probably every week.

 

I don't remember anywhere that it said that they would tell us EXACTLY when we would get in (Especially not the exact day/hour). That was a buyer expectation (completely unfounded). Then...they did give us a number - "Your EGA will be determined by your pre-order code redemption date". But that wasn't good enough for many.

 

I couldn't figure out exactly how many were in front of me, but I could come to a reasonable day for EGA based on when I registered my pre-order code. It didn't take alot of detective work to figure out how many pre-orders there were.

 

"Up to" is used by many, many very successful companies and I doubt that they have to deal with the amonut of 'whining/complaining' that this one has. Nobody forced anybody to sit at their PC the whole time checking email every 5 minutes. It's very disappointing to see people constantly try to rationalize/justify at best "questionable behavior"...it's a very sad commentary on our society indeed.

[SlyJeff]

Oh yeah, calling this a "2 day queue" or whatever is misguided.

 

I'd rather be waiting for an email for days that tells me as soon as I'm able to get in the game and be able to log in and play within a reasonable timeframe than to log in and have a queue onscreen for four hours while I wait.

 

And honestly, if you think they aren't bringing people on as fast as they feel comfortable they can do it, you are naive. There is no slacking off at their offices this week, I'm certain. They are likely working around the clock to get everyone in as quickly yet smoothly as possible. What motive would they possibly have to do otherwise?

 

As a software developer, you take pride in your work. You want people to use it and love it. If you've worked for YEARS on a game you want people in as soon as you can get them in. There is so much accusation here for what BW is doing, yet no one understands that they have no reason to do this other than to ensure a quality playing experience.

 

Yet there's a bunch of non-developers running around thinking they know better than BW about how to launch a game. If you are not happy with the way this launch is going, it says a lot more about you than it does BW.