Whats the story after 50?

[Barathos]

Funny i'm at 50 and progressing my character. Strange others choose not to.

 

You're progressing your character... how exactly?

 

Progressing means making him more powerful DESPITE gear. Once you hit 50, all story STOPS, all the amazing voice acting is GONE. I don't expect fully voiced content to be there forever and ever, but that's this games main selling point.

 

I love this game, I WANT it to succeed, but seeing the same blueprint that WoW has in THIS mmo is depressing.

[Solar]

That's why people roll alts, to see progression with a character.

 

And?

 

There was nothing new put on the table with that. All i'm seeing is 'How' i.e. the method by which a game conveys that 'sense' of "progression" and the preferences for a certain method of doing so on behalf of players. Adding points, and/or alternative levels, to an additional system of progression results in the same progressive experience. It just depends on whether or not people, subjectively, like the resulting system(s). If they come out with another 10 levels storied combat levels and level cap becomes 60; now the game is heading in the same predictable direction.

 

This genre has limitations that people need to learn to work with; not simply ‘consume’ and beg for more while simultaneously asking for something ‘different’ under the guise of 'innovation'.

[Barathos]

And?

 

There was nothing new put on the table with that. All i'm seeing is 'How' i.e. the method by which a game conveys that 'sense' of "progression" and the preferences for a certain method of doing so on behalf of players. Adding points, and/or alternative levels, to an additional system of progression results in the same progressive experience. It just depends on whether or not people, subjectively, like the resulting system(s). If they come out with another 10 levels storied combat levels and level cap becomes 60; now the game is heading in the same predictable direction.

 

This genre has limitations that people need to learn to work with; not simply ‘consume’ and beg for more while simultaneously asking for something ‘different’ under the guise of 'innovation'.

 

You totally avoided like... the rest of my entire post. >_>

 

Edit: This genre has limitations... SWG didn't have limitations, EQ1 didn't have limitations. WoW STARTED this whole limitations crap. Once you reach max-level the journey should THEN start beginning.

 

And this game WILL head in the same predictable direction. Their content patch brought a new dungeon, yay! Another flashpoint for me to grind... Albeit it was probably in production long before this game came out.

 

The point i'm making is: Why can't this game be unique? Why does every MMO need to be like WoW? Dailies, BGs / WZs, grinding dungeons to get to raid.

 

As soon as this game comes out with LFD, expect to just be camping in the republic fleet all day (if you aren't already).

Edited January 22, 2012 by Barathos

[Tedstery]

To Be Continued...

[Solar]

You totally avoided like... the rest of my entire post. >_>

 

No; not really. We can both sit here and nuance about 'innovation' and prospects for different "end game" systems to continually feed the appetite for consumption that some of the people who play this genre regularly; have all day long.

 

I'm of the opinion that such a thing, 'innovation' simply does not exist ; i.e. that this genre has obvious limitations.

 

EDIT:

 

The point i'm making is: Why can't this game be unique? Why does every MMO need to be like WoW? Dailies, BGs / WZs, grinding dungeons to get to raid.

 

Because the pattern is set; it has been set for a very long time.

 

*munches popcorn with Tedstery*

Edited January 22, 2012 by Solar

[Barathos]

No; not really. We can both sit here and nuance about 'innovation' and prospects for different "end game" systems to continually feed the appetite for consumption that some of the people who play this genre regularly; have all day long.

 

I'm of the opinion that such a thing, 'innovation' simply does not exist ; i.e. that this genre has obvious limitations.

 

EDIT:

 

 

 

Because the pattern is set; it has been set for a very long time.

 

*munches popcorn with Tedstery*

 

So you're saying "Nothing new under the stars"? Or "They'll never invent anything new for this!"

 

People have said that throughout history and look what we have today: TV, Internet, the ability to call people whenever we want to, faster travel, etc. etc. etc.

 

Saying that "This genre is set in stone, nothing will ever change" is a very backwards stance to take.

[JimG]

So i'm 50 now, and the biggest pull for me was the story. does it conclude at 50? thats it?

 

You actually think they won't be adding any more content....ever....in a MMO that just launched about a month ago? Obviously there's an end to the story....for now....until they add more story. Then, you'll be able to hit the end of that story....until they add more story...and so on and so on.

[Solar]

So you're saying "Nothing new under the stars"? Or "They'll never invent anything new for this!"

 

People have said that throughout history and look what we have today: TV, Internet, the ability to call people whenever we want to, faster travel, etc. etc. etc.

 

Saying that "This genre is set in stone, nothing will ever change" is a very backwards stance to take.

 

I'll believe it when I see it but I'm not holding my breath.

 

After over four years of not playing an "MMO" the self-same pattern-like nature of every one of these games is still VERY present. It wasn't real hard to pick right back up where I left off. Not just with "endgame" either. The genre has limitations that I don't think are going to be overcome in the short run.

 

Right now, this genre seems slowly trying to roll the mindset out of hardcore endgame pursuits towards a more leisurely pace so that it CAN facilitate other systems providing 'sense of progression' aspects. The result is the monumental discord over "casual" v/s "hardcore."

 

You honestly can't 'innovate' without resistance. So, here we are in yet another thread from someone who 'Beat the game' begging for more to 'beat' and to continue the cycle. Its not surprising.

 

Yet, look at the response the Legacy System gets, from some , for trying to provide something to 'accentuate' reaching "endgame." Rejection.

 

So, no. There is nothing new under the sun my friend. The constant quest to find such a thing simply has people running around from one game to the next over and over again. I don't do that because i don't buy into the myth of 'innovation'. From one game to the next this genre is simply a change of scenery mostly.

 

I like the scenery here.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Solar

[Tiam]

What exactly do people 'expect' at "endgame" in this genre?

 

Endgame Ultima Online there's a ton of stuff to do. I expect a 2012 game to at least try to have as much as a 1990's game has to do endgame.

 

Grinding pvp or pve armor/weapons is only going to take the genre so far..There has got to be more stuff to do endgame, heck even Blizzard realizes this.

 

Everyone in my household has canceled SWTOR, and so has most of my guild now. After seeing this game is just another gear grind, we're gone. Today's games have got to be better than this, they just have to have more to do than gear grind, and rolling alts to do the same thing over and over.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Tiam

[Solar]

Grinding pvp or pve armor/weapons is only going to take the genre so far.

 

Agreed. I arrived at the resulting end of that self-same pattern some years ago and don't play these games regularly. I don't jump from one to the next looking for some ineffable "something" because, for me, they have limitations.

 

Everyone in my household has canceled SWTOR, and so has most of my guild now. After seeing this game is just another gear grind, we're gone. Today's games have got to be better than this, they just have to have more to do than gear grind, and rolling alts to do the same thing over and over.

 

Consider these two articles; or opinions if you like:

 

"Endgame" Killed The Game"

 

"The Contradiction Of Design In MMO Endgame content"

 

"...one of the main hooks in any MMO is constant progression. It's why the leveling treadmill works so well in keeping people playing and why you see so many bars used to show progress. No matter what the player does, there is always some measure of visible progress on screen showing players that they aren't wasting their time."

 

Well yes; that is basically known and understood; but what is it that you want??? What is the vague magical "something" that I keep hearing about? If someone gave you enough money what would you put in a game for "endgame" content in order to provide a 'sense of progression' at some aspect of the game YOU are designing? Would you even know what it is and how would you guage whether or not potential customers will enjoy it?

 

See, I think people 'grow' into whatever the content is; if they like it and/or can influence it. Then, as if moved by nostalgia they don't recall having to endure the development of said content over time in a previous game. As a result, they suddenly 'expect' the same quantity and effects from every subsequent game. I hear the same complaints about Rift, Aion, and now even the holy grail, World of Warcraft, fails for some and some of them want out of it.

 

"I find the concept of a traditional endgame in MMOs to be a contradiction of game design. The reason is that any video game inherently has a point where the player has gotten everything out of it and will stop playing."

 

It doesn't really matter which one you go to as long as you find some form of enjoyment in it for as long as it interest you. The pattern is set.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Solar

[locustwars]

Once you hit 50 the game is absolutely boring cause all you do is grind forever for that special item, it's ridiculous it takes so long to get 1 piece of armor, i honestly don't have the time nor the patients to grind pvp all day every day (yes i wanted pvp gear cause it looked cool, flashpoints are the same, grind all day). I don't understand how people can do that, i tried, then after a couple of pvp rounds i get bored, they must have loads of time on their hands, love the game that much, or are a bunch of basement dwellers. The story after 50 is WoW all over again. If this was KotoR 3 i would probably **** my pants, yea **** would come out of my ***. Of course it would be a totally different game.

 

Voice over, some of the side quests and the main class quests are very good, the rest of the game is garbage.

 

I want my $180 back

[PibbyPib]

I don't understand how people can complain that *storylines* end at level 50.

 

What did you expect? You do realize that stories take a hell of a lot longer to create than they do to read or watch, I assume. There's no magical author game engine that spins a yarn for you as you play. lol

 

IMHO, the best MMOs eventually hand the reigns to the player, and provide them with the tools to create their own "story" (or at least string of dramatic moments), and interact with the game world that way. Whether it's something like SWG's crafting and mercantilism, or EVE's large scale wars and trade operations, or DAoC's ever-shifting Frontier, that's as close to a perpetual motion machine as you're going to find in an online game.