What do we bring to the table?

[Siokai]

Sorry for another one of "those" threads but...what do we as Sentinels bring to the table?

 

Currently (yes this may sound cocky) I am one of the best sentinels on my server, and with this statement I simply mean that I have played the class somewhat thoroughly. I have full champion gear, working on BM. I've respeced countless times to test new specs and compare damage and usefulness. I just can't compete with people of my skill level that are in other classes, for example Jedi Shadow.

 

Why don't the "DPS only" classes do significantly more DPS? Besides a "zomgz awesome 24/7 tranny buff" what can we bring to the table?

 

Our armor looks like ****, our skills are buggy, and our DPS is mediocre. For those that say "Well it's not about the damage" I respond with a: Yes it is. That's our class.

 

Who wants to do a DoT spec just to pump out decent damage. Most of the times with the 50s I play, my DoTs don't get through since everyone else does burst damage. So I have to pick the one target no one's on...a tank? lol yah right.

 

Ranting aside, I'd like to hear why some of you enjoy the class and what kind of potential you feel Sentinels have. Do we do ANYTHING other classes can't do? Are we valuable at all?

 

EDIT:

For my own pride here:

I have no problem whatsoever 1v1ing any class. I am top damage if not 2nd/3rd highest.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Siokai

[astyler]

The dps is great. Understand the DoTs are so short that you are bursty, esp. with a leap in for initial focus. To suggest that you are ineffectual due to DoTs makes me suspect that you aren't playing your class well.

 

Why should DPS only classes do significantly more DPS? That is a ridiculous statement, DPS specced Guardians, Shadows, Smugglers, Commandos, Sages, etc.. would all be automatically banned from any raid content. Sure they CAN stop DPSing and off heal offspec, but it is very weak and they will have an enormous drop in DPS while doing so... that is the balance of that flexibility. There is no dual-spec system.

 

All classes specced for DPS should be equivalent and they are fairly well balanced now when played properly. Some are easier than others, try a commando and spam grav round if you want something less complex than the sentinel.

Edited January 20, 2012 by astyler

[Apocalypse-]

Currently (yes this may sound cocky) I am one of the best sentinels on my server.... and our DPS is mediocre....

You're contradicting yourself here....

 

However.

 

Well-played Watchman Sentinels are the most survivable, most sustainable, least enemy-dependent damage available. We also provide significant burst and amazing group buffs. We have the ONLY healing debuff outside of trauma. We have an unrivaled interrupt ability. If the job is "Hold this point alone", "off that healer", "off-tank", "support/do objectives", or "be an amazingly effective distraction", Sentinels are unrivaled in those jobs.

 

Now, if you're not traited Watchman, you're not bringing half of that. Yeah, if Watchman is too much for you, you're bringing more with another spec than you would fumbling through Watchman, but that's not a flaw of the class. More risk = more reward.

 

Who wants to do a DoT spec just to pump out decent damage. Most of the times with the 50s I play, my DoTs don't get through since everyone else does burst damage. So I have to pick the one target no one's on...a tank? lol yah right.

Who wants to play the most fun spec in the game? Decent damage comes from Combat. Good damage comes from Focus. Watchman puts out amazing damage. If you think that the dots are ineffective in PvP, you aren't paying attention or have never traited Watchman for PvP.

[Siokai]

The dps is great. Understand the DoTs are so short that you are bursty, esp. with a leap in for initial focus. To suggest that you are ineffectual due to DoTs makes me suspect that you aren't playing your class well.

 

Why should DPS only classes do significantly more DPS? That is a ridiculous statement, DPS specced Guardians, Shadows, Smugglers, Commandos, Sages, etc.. would all be automatically banned from any raid content. Sure they CAN stop DPSing and off heal offspec, but it is very weak and they will have an enormous drop in DPS while doing so... that is the balance of that flexibility. There is no dual-spec system.

 

All classes specced for DPS should be equivalent and they are fairly well balanced now when played properly. Some are easier than others, try a commando and spam grav round if you want something less complex than the sentinel.

 

Don't get me wrong, we do pretty good damage, and I understand the DoTs are short. However what's the point in making a DPS only class? What's the benefit?

[asmodyus]

OP has a point what do we really bring to the table more so in OPS?/PVE

 

DPS okay so we can DPS just along the lines of all classes don't really seem do more damage than a fully spec'd Tank.

 

Crowd Control Driods.....................

 

Squsihy we are so squishy in always in front of everybodys face that we need or own healer.

 

That it folks nothing else oh wait we get to do a 15% DPS & healing buff every so often.

 

Everything else is very short 3 to 4o second cool downs

All other Classes

 

DPS, Healer, Tank, Off tank, Healer, Off Healer CC...

 

So If I have 1 slot left what would I bring DPS,DPS or some other variant that can multi task and output the same DPS.

 

I love the play style of our class I mean Honestly we get 2 glowing sticks how can you not like it. But we really don't offer much than okay DPS.

Edited January 20, 2012 by asmodyus

[astyler]

You play the class you will enjoy playing or that you will enjoy the story for. Everyone can DPS, some can tank, some can heal. Pick what you like and you have lots of options. Sentinel is great because it has 3 DPS specs, while most classes only really have 1.

 

Although they can pay to respec to a healer, you can pay to respec to basically a completely different DPS class. Some classes don't even get the benefit of a viable DPS shared tree (Smugglers can really only be scrapper to DPS)

[astyler]

OP has a point what do we really bring to the table more so in OPS?/PVE

 

DPS okay so we can DPS just along the lines of all classes don't really seem do more damage than a fully spec'd Tank.

 

Crowd Control Driods.....................

 

Squsihy we are so squishy in always in front of everybodys face that we need or own healer.

 

That it folks nothing else oh wait we get to do a 15% DPS & healing buff every so often.

 

Everything else is very short 3 to 4o second cool downs

All other Classes

 

DPS, Healer, Tank, Off tank, Healer, Off Healer CC...

 

So If I have 1 slot left what would I bring DPS,DPS or some other variant that can multi task and output the same DPS.

 

I love the play style of our class I mean Honestly we get 2 glowing sticks how can you not like it. But we really don't offer much than okay DPS.

 

Suggesting that a hybrid class can both DPS and Heal or Tank is naive. If they aren't specced for it, they are extremely bad at it. If they stop to heal, then they aren't DPSing. We are one of, if not the, most robust melee DPS classes in the game with our shared CDs and self healing with zen.

 

In OPs you bring Trans and Inspiration plus great DPS and interrupt ability. Not to mention superior mobility for getting back on target for DPS once some hazard is avoided.

[Siokai]

 

Now, if you're not traited Watchman, you're not bringing half of that. Yeah, if Watchman is too much for you, you're bringing more with another spec than you would fumbling through Watchman, but that's not a flaw of the class. More risk = more reward.

 

. If you think that the dots are ineffective in PvP, you aren't paying attention or have never traited Watchman for PvP.

 

I'm not saying we're ineffective in PvP, I'm saying we don't pack a punch and aren't a real benefit.

 

Also, watchman is not difficult to play. Honestly, it's not that bad of a rotation and the reactiveness required in PvP with our class isn't too bad either.

 

To all the posts that are going to say "OP you're just bad, aren't playing Watchman right" I'm gonna throw that out. I've put in the time and effort and I just don't think it's worth it really.

 

I personally don't have fun with a DoT spec, and AoE specs are well...AoE lol. I'd like a nice bursty spec but no one told me the DPS class Sentinel was not like that (since combat is such lackluster).

 

We can totally 1v1 classes and win, this I do not doubt (as Watchman).

 

You also made some good points about interrupts, which I wholeheartedly agree with, that's definitely one of the strong points of Watchman. However, the Healing debuff is only 20%, that's really not that much.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Siokai

[surfpro]

at the moment, we bring nothing to the table. our dps is low, are defenses are low, and our cc is low. Saber Masters are the weakest class in the game.

 

simple solution, buff saber masters saber strength.

[Apocalypse-]

DPS okay so we can DPS just along the lines of all classes don't really seem do more damage than a fully spec'd Tank.

Not even close.

 

Squsihy we are so squishy in always in front of everybodys face that we need or own healer.

Uhh. Uhh... Only way a healer should ever target you is if someone else doesn't do what they need to do and you take damage from it or you're tanking (more on this later). Force Camo, Rebuke, Saber Ward, Defensive Roll, an occasional healthpack and Merciless Zeal should handle 90% of the healing you need.

 

That it folks nothing else oh wait we get to do a 15% DPS & healing every so often.

And a frequently available 10% defense buff to the tank, a movement speed buff to the tank as well. A perfectly sufficient off-tank, A 6s blind every 45s that ignores major boss mechanics (See: EV boss 1's 24 weapons systems or Foreman Crusher's Frenzy), and more.

 

All other Classes

 

DPS, Healer, Tank, Off tank, Healer, Off Healer CC...

And none of them can both DPS and heal/tank effectively. If they try to do what they're not traited for, they're not going to be much. Either long inductions for healers or extremely low mitigation and threat generation for tanks. However, Sentinels can top the DPS chart and have aggro and have a plethora of defensive cooldowns if the tank dies. I just Tanked one of the two bosses in Hutt Hospitality by design (tank boss on the duo-boss) and ended up also tanking the 3rd boss (Puzzle droid) in Hutt Hospitality tonight for a good 20 seconds while the tank got aggro back after an overenthusiastic puzzle solver killed him. Healers didn't flinch either time. There was an Assassin in the group, but I was the better off-tank (guardian main tank) since he wasn't traited for tanking.

 

So If I have 1 slot left what would I bring DPS,DPS or some other variant that can multi task and output the same DPS.

False. If we're talking multi-tasking while DPSing, the only class that can do that well is Sentinel. We don't lose DPS while tanking, we don't lose DPS while doing our off-healing. Yes, we're not great at either (not counting self-healing, we're beast at this), but in order for another class to do what we do while DPSing, they need to use GCDs. They do this, and they're not competing with us in DPS anymore.

 

I love the play style of our class I mean Honestly we get 2 glowing sticks how can you not like it. But we really don't offer much than okay DPS.

Stop saying "we", because we're clearly not playing the same class.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Apocalypse-

[asmodyus]

Suggesting that a hybrid class can both DPS and Heal or Tank is naive. If they aren't specced for it, they are extremely bad at it. If they stop to heal, then they aren't DPSing. We are one of, if not the, most robust melee DPS classes in the game with our shared CDs and self healing with zen.

 

In OPs you bring Trans and Inspiration plus great DPS and interrupt ability. Not to mention superior mobility for getting back on target for DPS once some hazard is avoided.

 

Yes we have a quick interupt shared with are guardian friends. And I have seen full spec'd tank vanguards outputing just as much dps as a full DPS sentinel.

 

This is not wow were hyrbid classes suck. Shadows Amazing DPS as a tank, Vanguards amazing DPS as Tanks, Cammando Awsome DPS than can off heal on the spot. Guardian DPS than can of tank in a sec.

 

Yes we have some gimicks like Trans, and inspiration but really don't do the DPS that we should, or have the CC that we should as a DPS Class. And we have 2 trees and a shared one with guardians.

[asmodyus]

Not even close.

 

 

Uhh. Uhh... Only way a healer should ever target you is if someone else doesn't do what they need to do and you take damage from it or you're tanking (more on this later). Force Camo, Rebuke, Saber Ward, Defensive Roll, an occasional healthpack and Merciless Zeal should handle 90% of the healing you need.

 

 

And a frequently available 10% defense buff to the tank, a movement speed buff to the tank as well. A perfectly sufficient off-tank, A 6s blind every 45s that ignores major boss mechanics (See: EV boss 1's 24 weapons systems or Foreman Crusher's Frenzy), and more.

 

 

And none of them can both DPS and heal/tank effectively. If they try to do what they're not traited for, they're not going to be much. Either long inductions for healers or extremely low mitigation and threat generation for tanks. However, Sentinels can top the DPS chart and have aggro and have a plethora of defensive cooldowns if the tank dies. I just Tanked one of the two bosses in Hutt Hospitality by design (tank boss on the duo-boss) and ended up also tanking the 3rd boss (Puzzle droid) in Hutt Hospitality tonight for a good 20 seconds while the tank got aggro back after an overenthusiastic puzzle solver killed him. Healers didn't flinch either time. There was an Assassin in the group, but I was the better off-tank (guardian main tank) since he wasn't traited for tanking.

 

 

False. If we're talking multi-tasking while DPSing, the only class that can do that well is Sentinel. We don't lose DPS while tanking, we don't lose DPS while doing our off-healing. Yes, we're not great at either (not counting self-healing, we're beast at this), but in order for another class to do what we do while DPSing, they need to use GCDs. They do this, and they're not competing with us in DPS anymore.

 

 

Stop saying "we", because we're clearly not playing the same class.

 

Yes you have it all down pat we are an amzing class thatg does awsome DPS.

 

But what your like the 10% out there that belives this? Have you seen the forums, and the public out cry on this class and it lack off DPS for pure DPS Class, and your are right with our cool down if we have a really good healer we can off tank done it myself but are cool downs are long and once we bloew them we are squsihy really fast.

 

Yes We are a hard class to play and have alot of cool mechanics that played in full are great but the issue is other classes are easier and bring more to the table than we do. And I have already seen sentinals getting shafted for flashpionts.

 

Just saying this is my opinion I think the class needs more work and it would be an amazing class.

[Soarlozer]

Ive been topping dps charts as a 35 combat spec. Not top of the line gear just pve/pvp gear. ALWAYS having the best pvp mainhand from vendor.

 

I have not tried the other 2 specs but the only real thing I see that watchmen has over me for single target is better interupting and better sustained damage.

 

Probably one of the few people who love combat.

 

tldr: I agree for the lack of utility that a pure dps class has it NEEDS to offer something since it can't switch a role for parties.

 

GIVE us 10 seconds cc immunity on our cc break : )

[Tryte]

So much dumb in this thread..... Sentinels are one of the highest dps classes (if not retarded which excludes 90% of the playbase) and give the single most "vital" raid buff in game.

 

If i saw a dps commando or scoundrel healing in an Op he wouldn't come back. Not to mention Commando specifically is a wretched healer in offspec.

 

Tank spec'd nothing does "great dps". You bring dps to a raid to dps, you bring healers to heal and tanks to tank. Hybridity (especially in this game) doesn't exist in PVE.

 

Almost every Op encounter is a dps check, so why bring a very high dps class with awesome maneuverability and an essential raid buff to an Operation? Seriously guys, learn your class.

 

But hey you are squishy, ask the infil shadow if hed gladly trade places.... in terms of survivability and dps.

[Soarlozer]

So much dumb in this thread..... Sentinels are one of the highest dps classes (if not retarded which excludes 90% of the playbase) and give the single most "vital" raid buff in game.

 

If i saw a dps commando or scoundrel healing in an Op he wouldn't come back. Not to mention Commando specifically is a wretched healer in offspec.

 

Tank spec'd nothing does "great dps". You bring dps to a raid to dps, you bring healers to heal and tanks to tank. Hybridity (especially in this game) doesn't exist in PVE.

 

Almost every Op encounter is a dps check, so why bring a very high dps class with awesome maneuverability and an essential raid buff to an Operation? Seriously guys, learn your class.

 

But hey you are squishy, ask the infil shadow if hed gladly trade places.... in terms of survivability and dps.

 

I think they are trying to complain about that you can just switch roles by respeccing. Where as we would need to reroll to go as a offspec.

 

I agree its a dumb complain since there were pure dps classes before SWTOR. Im a decent player and can top charts easily while holding objectives and stuff (Contributing to the win, not just trying to top dmg), i'd hate to see what good players can do with sentinel.

[Siokai]

Once again, I'm not saying Sentinels are nerfed or that they can't top DPS charts while doing objectives. I'm saying it'd be nice for pure DPS classes to bring something very beneficial to the table.

 

Some posters have pointed out things here that I agree with (interrupts, some buffs).

 

I just feel that the class is very lackluster as a whole. It's my personal opinion and I totally accept that

[Siokai]

So much dumb in this thread..... Sentinels are one of the highest dps classes .

 

They are ONE of the highest. I'm wondering why we aren't without a doubt the highest since we're a DPS only class (same goes for other DPS only classes). It seems to me that the other classes that can tank/heal as well as DPS should bring more utility while we should just dominate the DPS. But in reality, we don't dominate DPS.

 

I understand the concept of every DPS spec'd class doing roughly the same, but then it leads back to what do we bring to the table? It seems that those who posted the benefits to Sent are making a bit of a stretch. Sure, we have a very nice interrupt that doesn't work on every boss ability and can only be applied to one person every 6 seconds -shrug-. It's a great interrupt, but doesn't just seem like enough. People say we can bring some good buffs, while that is true it still is very lackluster.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Siokai

[Cooperal]

While I'm not 50 yet I feel I may be finding my place in PvP with the lesser talked about combat tree. I can't say how the damage stacks up against the other trees but it worst case scenario it can't possibly be far behind.

 

What I've discovered is that a combat sentinel is a master of disruption. Their tree can provide a 100% chance to immobilize and enemy for 3 seconds with crippling throw and another immoblize for the entire duration of master strike. Throw that in with force leap and force statsis not only can you open your fights by locking an enemy in place for 10+ seconds (some of it stunned too), you make a net gain of focus in the process. All except maybe force stasis being ready for reuse before the start of your next fight.

 

Kicks (and if you're deperate, leg slash) can also be factored into the disruptive capabilities too. The lower tier points in the focus tree can also be used to further your trapping capabilities later too.

 

It's some of what else a sentinel can bring to the table. A massive opening for any teammate willing to speed the kill up. Dropping your optimal damage to spam out these utilities are always worth it unless you've stepped into impossible odds. And what's nice is you can swap back to doing to best damage abilities any time you like.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Cooperal

[Tryte]

What does a dps commando bring? Infil Shadow? DPS Vanguard? Scoundrel? I can keep going.

 

Even Gunslingers who have their Epcot Center dmg mit buff are still 90% stationary...^^ another amazing raid buff btw.

 

As a dps class you're prob the most well rounded in a situation where you dont have to take dmg. You bring more than any of the above by a large margin.

 

If you're talking about PVP, then bleh dont care but you need to learn something about other classes before you cry on the forums. The only downside to a Sent is you're melee and thats a situational loss.

 

Ohh and from what ive seen in Heroic Ops Combat > Watchman for dps.....

Edited January 20, 2012 by Tryte

[Tryte]

They are ONE of the highest. I'm wondering why we aren't without a doubt the highest since we're a DPS only class (same goes for other DPS only classes). It seems to me that the other classes that can tank/heal as well as DPS should bring more utility while we should just dominate the DPS. But in reality, we don't dominate DPS.

 

 

Worst statement in this thread. I don't even know how to counter that....

 

Guess what no other class can dps and heal or dps and tank. They do one or the other. In short your saying because your horribly twisted view of what you perceive endgame to be isn't met it should be changed to give sents an advantage for no reason? Sorry because you dont have a tank or heal spec? Did you know this when you rolled the class?

[Siokai]

Worst statement in this thread. I don't even know how to counter that....

 

Guess what no other class can dps and heal or dps and tank. They do one or the other. In short your saying because your horribly twisted view of what you perceive endgame to be isn't met it should be changed to give sents an advantage for no reason? Sorry because you dont have a tank or heal spec? Did you know this when you rolled the class?

 

You don't understand what I'm saying, and you're a very rude person.

 

What I mean is, a class that can both DPS or respec to Heal/Tank.

 

Also, I'm not saying it should be changed. I'm simply seeking information. You don't need to be an *** about it.

 

 

We don't accept or tolerate forums trolls, chat champions or downright douchebags (especially within the guild). We will never penalize anyone for asking a question but we will if you don't. .

 

^ Look familiar?

Edited January 20, 2012 by Siokai

[Tryte]

You don't understand what I'm saying, and you're a very rude person.

 

What I mean is, a class that can both DPS or respec to Heal/Tank.

 

Also, I'm not saying it should be changed. I simply seeking information. You don't need to be an *** about it.

 

What does respec'ing have to do with your role? DPS spec is DPS spec. Even if you could flip specs on the fly noone brings x class cause they can go healer....

 

Those that CAN spec into something else aren't recruited or brought to end game content for that ability. However sents ARE brought because of their raid buffs.

 

You asked what you perceive to be a loaded question in the title and continued to shoot down the 10 posts explaining to you what you do bring to the table.

 

You've been given reasons and first hand experiences from people in this thread and all you can refute them with is... "You're stretching the facts".

 

Not to mention this subject has been beat to death and really doesn't require another thread to try and explain to someone who feels they're underpowered why they aren't.

 

Don't be argumentative then complain someones rude to you.

 

If you had been open to an actual conversation i wouldnt be confrontational, but... you don't seem to want to grasp a pretty basic MMO concept and would rather follow the train of the sent forums by crying about things you won't put the effort in to understand.

 

BTW even if sents did less dps than tanks i'd still bring 2 to 16 mans, that might give you a frame of refrence for how valuable they are.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Tryte

[Tryte]

at the moment, we bring nothing to the table. our dps is low, are defenses are low, and our cc is low. Saber Masters are the weakest class in the game.

 

simple solution, buff saber masters saber strength.

 

Now i may have assumed you were of the mindset of this guy.

 

If you're seriously asking the question...... it's been answered. Great dps (and you are prolly second to maybe 1 or 2 classes), great maneuverability (requirement for most Ops), awesome survivability (in an Op environment) and the most prolific buffs in a game where every second of dps is a make or break moment for the raid.

[Siokai]

I don't think you read my posts with the tone I had in mind while writing them, that's understandable.

 

I most certainly agree with *some* of the things pointed out my posters as to what Sentinels can bring to the table and for that I am grateful and have learned. I also am not trying to refute with only "stretching it a bit", I honestly have my own first hand experiences (just as valuable as yours).

 

I've try to be open minded as much as I can be so as to not let knowledge slip past me.

 

Also I think you're focusing more on PVE raiding content, while I had more PVP content in mind (I PVP far more than PVE). Maybe that's got something to do with our difference in opinions.

 

It is heartening to hear an experienced raider say they'd still bring Sentinels to their raids if a Tank still did more DPS (showing that Sents bring something quite useful to raids).

 

So thank you for your input, it's well received.

[Siokai]

Now i may have assumed you were of the mindset of this guy.

 

If you're seriously asking the question...... it's been answered. Great dps (and you are prolly second to maybe 1 or 2 classes), great maneuverability (requirement for most Ops), awesome survivability (in an Op environment) and the most prolific buffs in a game where every second of dps is a make or break moment for the raid.

 

Beautiful answer and what I wanted, and no I am definitely not in the mindset of that guy lol.