Bag RNG System: Aging Poorly

[Darth_Rahlik]

Random bags = bad idea.

 

Don't know if your idea is a good idea, but it definitely beats random.

 

Pls remove random bags.

[EmorRyk]

Just another bump! Totally agree.

[JackKerras]

Science says that the best way to get a rat to push a button is to reward pushing the button at random. That's what I'm referring to when I talk about Skinner boxes; you can look up the experiment under that name on Wikipedia (or under 'operant conditioning chamber') and get a reasonably accurate description of the experiment I continue to reference; MMORPGs are even noted in the same breath as slot machines in this context.

 

That said, I titled my thread 'aging poorly' because I think that particular design choice has begun to play itself out.

 

Zynga games reward their players more often than random loot bags, and by and large they are cheaper to play, if not quite as rewarding from a PvP perspective. For example: I went up against a four-man premade of my guildies on the Republic side and did better damage even with a positively awful PUG team.

 

And you know what?

 

The bag from my daily had stims in it. Not even a vendor-trash green.

 

PvP gear in this game, especially sub-50, seems to have been an afterthought. I'm in the process of rewriting the whole system to print up and FedEx to BW. >_>

[Hank-ita]

UP

 

 

Anything is better than random bags. 11 empty bags in the last 3 days, no thanks.

 

Do something BW.

[Ruwe]

bumpity bump for truth. Random has got to go.

[xContex]

I am probably going to be flamed to hell for saying this (flame shield on) however I don't think the system is entirely broken. Yes I myself am a victim of duplicate items however what I think BW was trying to do was allow a slower progression for players to PvP gear, meaning it makes getting gear much harder and not every person in PvP is in full champ gear.

 

I really liked the OP change however I think it should be layered ON TOP of this current system. I think BW also needs to implement a conversion NPC. Something like 2 relics = 1 piece of something else? Allows those who are unlucky to trade in their extra pieces for pieces that they need/want. As regards to the OP, those quests are great however I would set them as weekly and raise the required amount by a bit. People really shouldn't be running in full champ gear at valor 20. It should be at least till their valor 40.

 

Obviously this is my own opinion,

 

tl;dr

I don't think the RNG bags need to go, just slightly modified with the OP quests and the system would end up being much better than the current.

[doorofnight]

I am probably going to be flamed to hell for saying this (flame shield on) however I don't think the system is entirely broken. Yes I myself am a victim of duplicate items however what I think BW was trying to do was allow a slower progression for players to PvP gear, meaning it makes getting gear much harder and not every person in PvP is in full champ gear.

 

I really liked the OP change however I think it should be layered ON TOP of this current system. I think BW also needs to implement a conversion NPC. Something like 2 relics = 1 piece of something else? Allows those who are unlucky to trade in their extra pieces for pieces that they need/want. As regards to the OP, those quests are great however I would set them as weekly and raise the required amount by a bit. People really shouldn't be running in full champ gear at valor 20. It should be at least till their valor 40.

 

Obviously this is my own opinion,

 

tl;dr

I don't think the RNG bags need to go, just slightly modified with the OP quests and the system would end up being much better than the current.

 

I agree that there should be some effort required to get especially the higher end stuff, but the problem at the moment is that the only difference between Centurion and Champion gear is how lucky a person is when opening bags, which I think is just plain silly.

 

Centurion Gear really should be purchaseable with Warzone Commendations. Champion Bags should still be given from Dailies and Weeklies and they should drop Champion tokens and Battlemaster Bags award Battlemaster tokens and then the amount you need to buy pieces should be raised.

 

That would allow fresh 50's to get in and get competitive more quickly, and also give Centurion more of a point besides a consolation prize for those unlucky in their drops, and then the commendations from the bags would slow down how long it takes to get Champion and Battlemaster gear and also differentiate those sets a bit more as well.

[Ruwe]

I am probably going to be flamed to hell for saying this (flame shield on) however I don't think the system is entirely broken. Yes I myself am a victim of duplicate items however what I think BW was trying to do was allow a slower progression for players to PvP gear, meaning it makes getting gear much harder and not every person in PvP is in full champ gear.

 

I really liked the OP change however I think it should be layered ON TOP of this current system. I think BW also needs to implement a conversion NPC. Something like 2 relics = 1 piece of something else? Allows those who are unlucky to trade in their extra pieces for pieces that they need/want. As regards to the OP, those quests are great however I would set them as weekly and raise the required amount by a bit. People really shouldn't be running in full champ gear at valor 20. It should be at least till their valor 40.

 

Obviously this is my own opinion,

 

tl;dr

I don't think the RNG bags need to go, just slightly modified with the OP quests and the system would end up being much better than the current.

 

 

I suggested much the same thing (since I am almost valor 50 and do not have full champ gear do too RNG sucking) my idea was a bit different in implementation than yours, but the end goal was the same. Have a consistent reward system that shows progression instead of a completely broken random system that is unfair to the majority of players.

 

I too really like the objective based quests and didn't even think about maybe making them a weekly, that would be an awesome solution, do your objective based weekly and get a guaranteed piece of champ gear instead of 3 centurion commendations, leave the centurion commendations as the daily rewards with a smaller chance of champ tokens dropping since the centurion gear is mostly horrible substitutes anyway. This would allow progression, it would reward playing well, so even if your team is substandard you can still progress, and if so desired could be used to limit how fast players are gearing up.

 

+1 from me.

[JackKerras]

I don't think RNG bags need to go, either! I didn't mean to suggest that this system would entirely replace them.

 

This is supposed to be a system that BioWare can put in place with minimal cost and effort involved which will allow folks who've been screwed over by lootbags to work their way towards a full gearset, or finish off their gearset, -not- a total replacement for the current system.

 

I don't mind lottery bags. Their status as the sole way to get gear is my problem.

[LordSatoh]

Current system killed my fun pretty much.

I am one piece away and once I get it I'm off.

With 8 duplicates in bank which none of my companions can use I realized this game gives me no reason to play apart from wasting my time.

 

I like the the idea OP. Too bad BW does not give a crap.

[JackKerras]

Sorry to hear it. :/

 

I just came by here to post something that Raph Koster said in a great little article on atomic game design; he's at raphkoster.com and he's a sharp dude.

 

Within a list of MMO combat system components:

 

A variable feedback system should be in place. The result of the encounter should not be completely predictable. Ideally, greater skill in completing the encounter should lead to better rewards, but some degree of variability in the reward is important to maintain interest and minimize “farming.”

Important point: you’re playing with fire here, and if it makes you nervous, this is the only optional item on the list. Merely randomized drops is not sufficient, and it’s incredibly easy to alienate players with long waits for what they want. The feedback should be such that it is always worthwhile, but perhaps not to you—or there should be a system whereby the feedback you get (e.g., the loot) is perhaps tailored to the way that the encounter was resolved. The reward should always be contextual to what the challenge was.

 

Italics added for emphasis.

 

I really do just sit and read about game design all day.

[Ruwe]

Sorry to hear it. :/

 

I just came by here to post something that Raph Koster said in a great little article on atomic game design; he's at raphkoster.com and he's a sharp dude.

 

Within a list of MMO combat system components:

 

A variable feedback system should be in place. The result of the encounter should not be completely predictable. Ideally, greater skill in completing the encounter should lead to better rewards, but some degree of variability in the reward is important to maintain interest and minimize “farming.”

Important point: you’re playing with fire here, and if it makes you nervous, this is the only optional item on the list. Merely randomized drops is not sufficient, and it’s incredibly easy to alienate players with long waits for what they want. The feedback should be such that it is always worthwhile, but perhaps not to you—or there should be a system whereby the feedback you get (e.g., the loot) is perhaps tailored to the way that the encounter was resolved. The reward should always be contextual to what the challenge was.

 

Italics added for emphasis.

 

I really do just sit and read about game design all day.

 

This is essentially what the dev's have ignored for the pvp rewards system, and that Theory of Fun was actually a pretty interesting read.

 

They are beginning to alienate their pvp player base who are getting tired of waiting on one or two items that they need to finish out a particular set and have no way to gauge how close they are.

 

I have stopped doing pvp mostly except for my daily's as most of the people that I normally pvp with are fed up with the system. We have started to run PVE content because we know somebody will get an improvement to their gear. Point in case, I now have to two Columni chest pieces, I have only done the two runs that drop that piece one time each, and on both instances I received alot more than just that chest piece. (On a side note, it is handy to get that second piece for me since I just stripped it to improve my mainhand... BY GOD IF YOU WON'T GIVE A MAINHAND I'LL MAKE MY OWN!!! *end rant*)

 

They really need to revisit the PVP reward vs. challenge/time aspect.

[tcander]

Kinda reminds me of Challenges from Call of Duty.

 

Regardless, I like the idea. Random loot bags is the worst system of any MMO that I've played, and I've played them all.

[Eradicatelol]

Current system killed my fun pretty much.

I am one piece away and once I get it I'm off.

With 8 duplicates in bank which none of my companions can use I realized this game gives me no reason to play apart from wasting my time.

 

I like the the idea OP. Too bad BW does not give a crap.

 

^... I haven't gotten one armor piece, just many implants, relics & earpieces.

[anasa]

Kinda reminds me of Challenges from Call of Duty.

 

Regardless, I like the idea. Random loot bags is the worst system of any MMO that I've played, and I've played them all.

 

 

Says it all, agree 100%

 

 

/10char

[Eradicatelol]

15k+ views and probably not one bioware developer......

[JackKerras]

15k+ views and probably not one bioware developer......

 

You might be surprised.

 

Devs aren't actually allowed to talk here, by and large.

[RenegadeArcher]

Excellent idea. RNG in blows, and it's really ticking people off. I know several who are pimped out in gear and were lucky, and others who were not so lucky, and havent gotten a darn thing.

[Kharjo]

i opened 30 bags on my mercenary and i got an earpiece.....

 

 

I have since quit playing him beacause all empire gets is huttball so its boring as **** with no incentive

[Raice]

/signed

 

Good post and good idea!

[Kharjo]

sorry i dont like your idea i feel it would make it harder to get gear. i never score in huttball and rarely get to slice terminals so that would be just as bad as the rng system really..

 

 

what i want to see is I buy gear with a resource obtained via pvp. simple easy every game does it yes that means wow. its a perfect system. grind, reward.

 

i guess that means make it so the bags drop gear every time even if it means dupes. I want epics every drop or 50 percent at the least

[JackKerras]

sorry i dont like your idea i feel it would make it harder to get gear. i never score in huttball and rarely get to slice terminals so that would be just as bad as the rng system really..

 

 

what i want to see is I buy gear with a resource obtained via pvp. simple easy every game does it yes that means wow. its a perfect system. grind, reward.

 

i guess that means make it so the bags drop gear every time even if it means dupes. I want epics every drop or 50 percent at the least

 

The whole post contains information like: terminal slices, Huttball passes, captures, and the like would pulse in an AoE, so that those who are there don't have to be actively doing it themselves. Nearby, yes. Do you have to be the first person to hit the button? No.

 

Does that seem like a less terrible idea now?

[Eradicatelol]

The whole post contains information like: terminal slices, Huttball passes, captures, and the like would pulse in an AoE, so that those who are there don't have to be actively doing it themselves. Nearby, yes. Do you have to be the first person to hit the button? No.

 

Does that seem like a less terrible idea now?

Definitely better than the system in place now.

[Fluffosaurusrex]

bump!

[Eradicatelol]

Well over 25 Champion bags and only relics, earpieces & implants, this PvP System is horrid.

 

I have no PvP armor......