Was Darth Maul a sneaky sneak or squishy magician??

[SLIMDOGGIE]

I'd personally be all for loosening the weapon restrictions a bit. Let force users pick and choose the sabers they use to a point. Or the biggie, *** my bounty hunter can only use a blaster pistol single or DW? When the lore of the whole class revolves around some very nasty bounty hunters that used all sorts of weapons. They were as close to weapon masters as a class in Star Wars can get. At least give us rifles.

 

And a ranking officer, be it Trooper or Agent, can't pull out a side arm when the big gun is too much? It's crap. And I didn't even consider Bounty Hunters yet. They should be able to use anything (excluding light sabers of course). Because that is the lore. "This here is Brutus the BH, he eats only what he kills and he only kills with his trusty, rusty knife." IMO they have ravaged even the BHs down to mere cowboys and indians.

[Norumaniac]

Firstly I would like to mention your opinion is valid.

 

Secondly, they should be able to use blasters, just not as effectively. I want DBLS ation and medium armor. And if i feel like it, heavy armor. It is not unreasonable. It is a time of unknown and unlimited possibility. I'd appriciate a reflection of that.

 

It'd be reasonable... For a single player game, of course.

 

 

If you plan on having a MMO game, at some point you have to restrict stuff. Just imagine, how many different classes you'd have to desing?

 

Jedi with blaster

Jedi with one LS

Jedi with two LS

Jedi with double LS

Jedi that dual weild a single LS and a double LS (like the dude in the opening)

Jedi with one LS that uses force attacks mostly (like a Sage)

 

Of course, every class could choose every piece of armor as well...

 

 

Imagine loot, imagine rolling for a piece that everyone in the raid could use.

[Hambunctious]

In the movies, Maul was a marauder who used a double lightsaber, no doubt about it. Whatever garbage someone made up about him outside the movies doesn't have any bearing on it.

[Rhyltran]

So...

 

Why is it that as a Jedi Knght/Sith Warrior I am not allowed to use a double sided saber to deal massive damage? In every other game I've ever played, including KOTOR 1 & 2, the double bladed saber deals more damage attacks slower ect ect, but it looks cool, deals big damage, and it looks cool. (Thats right I said it twice) Just saying I am frustrated that I am allowed to choose the story in cookie cutter fashion maybe I want to use two sabers one day and then a double bladded another day. Depends on my mission. What ever happened to shaping my own destiny? I can use a double bladed saber if I want to be a sneaky assasin or shadow, or a force wielding sage or sorcerer. What about Darth Maul? He was a total bad A and he used raw power, not sneaky tactics and magic rocks. And I don't see how game mechanics would even seriously change much at all.. it would be like having one saber thats on steroids. I understand there are limitations to what people can do.. but this is clearly an oversight and I want to make some noise.

 

SWTOR, Please let melee Warriors/Knights use double bladed sabers. It's only right.

 

I'm open to criticism but not ignorance.

 

Because it's a game but if you want to get technical Maul was an assassin. In game terms he'd be an assassin tank. In lore he was originally on naboo to assassinate Padme. This is confirmed in the complete visionary dictionary. In the novel about him he does a lot of hunting and sneaking around. He is primarily an assassin.

[Iaius]

In the movies, Maul was a marauder who used a double lightsaber, no doubt about it. Whatever garbage someone made up about him outside the movies doesn't have any bearing on it.

 

"Marauder" is "garbage made up [. . . ] outside the movies" you know.

[snooggums]

It'd be reasonable... For a single player game, of course.

 

 

If you plan on having a MMO game, at some point you have to restrict stuff. Just imagine, how many different classes you'd have to desing?

 

Jedi with blaster

Jedi with one LS

Jedi with two LS

Jedi with double LS

Jedi that dual weild a single LS and a double LS (like the dude in the opening)

Jedi with one LS that uses force attacks mostly (like a Sage)

 

Of course, every class could choose every piece of armor as well...

 

 

Imagine loot, imagine rolling for a piece that everyone in the raid could use.

 

Imagine a system where loot rolling is secondary to playing and you don't have to roll against other players. In that scenario, there is no need to restrict choice for players because players can decide what they want to do with anything they come across in whatever way they feel like.

 

Classes at that point are created to focus a certain style of play, to encourage an archetype instead of forcing it or making excuses for why they can't allow a character to pick up and use a solid object, no matter how ineffective it is for their class.

[Norumaniac]

Imagine a system where loot rolling is secondary to playing and you don't have to roll against other players. In that scenario, there is no need to restrict choice for players because players can decide what they want to do with anything they come across in whatever way they feel like.

 

Classes at that point are created to focus a certain style of play, to encourage an archetype instead of forcing it or making excuses for why they can't allow a character to pick up and use a solid object, no matter how ineffective it is for their class.

 

 

I understand your point, but dont forget we are playing an MMORPG. Maybe you could come up with a system that works, idk, but loot/getting better gear is an important part of the game.

 

 

I mean, giving a reward to progression, killing harder bosses, etc. Again, i understand your point (i think lol), but in order to make a succesfull game, i believe you need to limit some options or follow some steps.

[SLIMDOGGIE]

I insist that a "heavy" weapon or a "light" weapon should be an option for all classes/specs in all games everywhere ESPECIALLY lightsabers for jedi/sith and assult rifles/sniper rifles for bounty hunters. If I don't conform I don't achive optimal status and as a result get picked last for the kickball team. It's about me enjoying the game, not satisfying some predetermined outcome by feeding it regurgitated inputs. If I want to do that I will repeatedly enter "2+2=" in a calculator. Weapon restrictions are basicly telling me what to do and quite frankly I don't want to listen, I want to go out and adventure my way on my time and on my dime. Period.

 

Medium/Heavy armor. Melee abilities. One hilt, two beams. And then I want to change my socks, and switch to my blue single bladed sabers to match my new socks. Think about it. It's not rocket science.

 

Freedom.

Edited January 22, 2012 by SLIMDOGGIE
poor spelling

[acheros]

At some point deep in the future, the weapon limitations will be lifted, be sure about that.

 

Many things will change and more things will be implemented.

 

Darth Maul was a marauder but for the most part acted as an assasin.

 

He was an assasin because obviously his mission was to assasinate but he was good in mass combat like he showed in the movie.

 

He was 100% assassin, there was no marauder about it.

 

Considering the assassin AC was modeled AFTER darth maul, theres no reason to believe otherwise.

[Rhyltran]

He was 100% assassin, there was no marauder about it.

 

Considering the assassin AC was modeled AFTER darth maul, theres no reason to believe otherwise.

 

The Plagueis novel confirms that he was a pure assassin.

[LyriaFrost]

Medium/Heavy armor. Melee abilities. One hilt, two beams. And then I want to change my socks, and switch to my blue single bladed sabers to match my new socks. Think about it. It's not rocket science.

 

Freedom.

 

Or, in other words, "world of magetanks". Everyone would be in heavy armor. Everyone would have all the most powerful melee/ranged abilities.

 

Everyone would be the same, except for special effect. That doesn't seem fun to me.

[Aloro]

I insist that a "heavy" weapon or a "light" weapon should be an option for all classes/specs in all games everywhere

 

You're in no position to "insist", although you are of course free to "request".

 

I don't agree with any of your points though. First, it's irrelevant what character class Darth Maul would be placed into, if he were in this game. He isn't. The Sith order of Darth Maul's time is nothing like the Sith in TOR; Darth Bane will come along in a thousand years and change everything. Most of the current knowledge will be lost, and Sidious will teach his apprentice scraps of ancient knowledge, making it up as they go to some extent. Apples aren't oranges. One could (very convincingly) argue that the Sith Assassin is OBVIOUSLY based on Darth Maul anyhow, based on even the most casual observation of animations... but it wouldn't make any difference. Yes, the game is heavily inspired by the movies, but no, this isn't the movies. Darth Maul's character class is "Darth Maul", or if you want to put a title on it, he's a "Galactic Empire Era Sith Apprentice". He's not an Assassin or a Marauder, or anything else in game, really. Sure, you can map characters in the movies pretty closely onto character classes in the game, but if you do so you'll find again and again that little things don't match. I never saw Obi-Wan toss pebbles at people. I never saw Vader force leap. I never saw Boba Fett use a mortar. I never saw Yoda shield himself.

 

As an aside, people do this with every new game based on an existing IP. There are folks in LotRO who are still arguing about whether Elrond is really the inspiration for the Lore-master class, or whether it's Gandalf with a hint of Radagast. And, just like here, it doesn't matter there. These questions don't have answers, folks. "If I took a character from a work of fiction and inserted him/her into a game based on that work of fiction, how would I classify that character" is an old fan game, but it's incapable of being provably solved. Muster up every argument you can find, and you'll simply never prove that Darth Maul was an Assassin; because he wasn't. Darth Maul was a character from a movie, not from a video game. There really is a meaningful difference here, in that the creators of Darth Maul didn't classify him this way, and the classifications we're talking about came years later.

 

Second, most MMOs restrict weapons based on class; there's nothing at all wrong with doing so in theory or in practice. I don't think Scoundrels need to have Assault Cannons, and I don't think Marauders need double-bladed lightsabers for the same reason. Not only is it nice to have meaningful choices, but it also differentiates classes from each other. I don't think everyone should be running around with the same weapons.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Aloro

[Aloro]

Or, in other words, "world of magetanks". Everyone would be in heavy armor. Everyone would have all the most powerful melee/ranged abilities.

 

Everyone would be the same, except for special effect. That doesn't seem fun to me.

 

Yup, when people are free to choose skills freely with no class structure, there's always the risk that a dominant strategy will arise, meaning one choice is clearly better than the rest. Then everyone ends up doing that, so the developers nerf that build, and everyone moves on to the next flavor of the month.

 

I honestly prefer having to make meaningful choices that restrict my options, to being free to do anything in games.

[Wyndrydyr]

Yup, when people are free to choose skills freely with no class structure, there's always the risk that a dominant strategy will arise, meaning one choice is clearly better than the rest. Then everyone ends up doing that, so the developers nerf that build, and everyone moves on to the next flavor of the month.

 

I honestly prefer having to make meaningful choices that restrict my options, to being free to do anything in games.

 

This exactly. SWG offered that freedom. Do you know what happened? It sure wasn't customization.

 

Everyone just wore composite armor. Everyone. Everyone who could used a T-21 rifle. It was utterly moronic and incredibly boring.

 

Freedom is unnecessary and too easy to imbalance. The restrictions exist for a very important reason - differentiation. I can identify an assassin at a distance by their lightsaber, just like I can identify a marauder, a mercenary, a juggernaut...every single AC has a very specific combination of gear/weapon that makes them distinct.

 

What the RP fanboys always forget is that ultimately - this is not a PnP RPG. This is not a single-player game. This is a spiritual successor to the KotOR games, but it is not KotOR 3. It is a multiplayer game with MILLIONS of players and no flesh-and-blood DM to arbitrate. Balance and gameplay trumps freedom. And in a game genre where gear as a reward mechanism is as important as it is, that too becomes a hugely important factor in design decisions.

[Punkre]

Actually Darth Maul does use force shock in parts of the scene where he is fighting on Naboo to help destroy objects.

[SidewalkofPain]

I absolutely hate the weapon restrictions. It should be pretty simple. Saberstaffs or DW sabers = more damage, defensive penalties (seriously, go find two sticks or a really long stick, swing them around, and count how many times you conk yourself). Single saber = damage penalties, defensive boost.

 

Also we should really be able to learn any of the 7 lightsaber forms (which of course would all have benefits and drawbacks), but I have this idea that they should actually make the animations, especially the idle guard, accurate, and that's not happening.

Edited January 23, 2012 by SidewalkofPain

[ZinLae]

For all of you that know nothing about Maul, he can use force lightening (and could resist it), he could stealth (but had to use a device to do it), and most importantly he was an assassin. But not just any old sith assassin. He was Darth Sidious's personal assassin.

 

And if the freedom to use any weapon or armor in this game existed, there would be many times more people ready to quit the game because that is a true game breaker in an MMO.

 

That's reality. If this were another Xbox game then, by all means, limit the restrictions. But it isn't. Let's be realistic here.

[DarthWalt]

Roll a SI. And tank.

[Norumaniac]

This exactly. SWG offered that freedom. Do you know what happened? It sure wasn't customization.

 

Everyone just wore composite armor. Everyone. Everyone who could used a T-21 rifle. It was utterly moronic and incredibly boring.

 

Freedom is unnecessary and too easy to imbalance. The restrictions exist for a very important reason - differentiation. I can identify an assassin at a distance by their lightsaber, just like I can identify a marauder, a mercenary, a juggernaut...every single AC has a very specific combination of gear/weapon that makes them distinct.

 

What the RP fanboys always forget is that ultimately - this is not a PnP RPG. This is not a single-player game. This is a spiritual successor to the KotOR games, but it is not KotOR 3. It is a multiplayer game with MILLIONS of players and no flesh-and-blood DM to arbitrate. Balance and gameplay trumps freedom. And in a game genre where gear as a reward mechanism is as important as it is, that too becomes a hugely important factor in design decisions.

 

Agreed.

[Sylriana]

And if the freedom to use any weapon or armor in this game existed, there would be many times more people ready to quit the game because that is a true game breaker in an MMO

 

Uh, what? Giving people options is in no way a "game breaker"

[Rhyltran]

Uh, what? Giving people options is in no way a "game breaker"

 

It would because there'd always be an optimal way to build which means everyone would end up the same. I.E. look at darkfall. Sandbox pvp game. You can learn magic which back in the day took days upon days of using all day long every day for months to become proficient at. Various weapons and use any armor. Armor even gave a reduction to magic. In the end the optimal way was.. learning pole arm (or two handed sword), high level magic, platemail.

 

In the beginning it was going well but pretty much those that devoted hours to master all of those became gods. Then people quit due to lack of options (lathough you can use anything if you don't do that combo you're worthless). Know what they did? Made magic easier to learn but it didn't matter.

 

Sandbox games usually have this problem. That was but one example. Sandbox promotes freedom but in most cases that freedom is an illusion. Class segregation might force "restrctions" but at least there's multiple classes and when the game is constantly balanced around these classes in the end you have variety. Maybe not as much as you'd like but more than "100% of the playerbase is this."

[Calax]

Uh, what? Giving people options is in no way a "game breaker"

 

I'd like you to meet Champions Online... it was a game with a dream. The dream was that everyone would be able to use everything and pick any ability in their spec.

 

Basically, imagine if you hit level 30, respecced, and could go from guardian to gunslinger JUST with the respec, and could still use the exact same armor. That was Champions Online at release.

 

What did this lead to? Everyone picking up at LEAST 1 specific power (Powered Armor if you want the particulars) because it was by far the best defense in the game, and effectively put out the melee characters to pasture because they couldn't keep up with the mage-tanks that were swarming the maps. The game failed financially and is currently free to play with much more restrictions put in play (and if you pay the monthly fee, you get the old system back).

 

 

Now, in TOR I can see the frustrations. Basically you have ONE weapon option per class, and this feels a bit restrictive (and slightly jarring when an imperial agent ALWAYS uses a blaster pistol in every cutscene, but never in gameplay). It'd be nice if they offered you the ability to at least have two major weapon options per class (so a Juggernaut can use double-blade or single depending, a Marauder can flip out with duel wield or single etc). But to do this at this point would basically require an expansion level investment in overhauling core design of the game.

[Uluain]

Maul was a Sith Lord. That's all. Warriors, Inquisitors, Juggernauts, Marauders, Sorcerers and Assassins are all elaborations after the fact, made for game purposes and not applicable to the films.

 

Classes get what they get. I wanted an astromech for my Consular, rather than a Trandoshan. Well, too bad for me. Knights get the astromech, not Consulars. It's pointless to fret over these things. You look at the pros and cons, and go from there.

 

Want to dual-wield? Go Sentinel or Marauder. Want a double-ended lightsaber? Go Shadow or Assassin. That's just how it is with character classes in SWTOR. Maybe later, we'll have the opportunity to expand our proficiencies. For now we don't.

 

You pay your buck, you ride the ride. That's all.

[SLIMDOGGIE]

Half of you are being ultima-over-dramatic. All that was mentioned is saber users should be able to use single sabers, a double bladed saber, or two single sabers and and blaster/sniper rifles available to classes that should have them. (There are even some of the NPC classes in the game have them e.i. several "sawbones class" NPCs have blaster rifles in various zones) And there is this huge uproar about crappy games in the past that failed ultimately becuase they were actually terrible. It won't ruin the game. It wouldn't even be much different than whats out there now. Melee still needs to get close to attack with some defensive buffs and ranged usually has an offesnive advantage anyway. Instead of two small weapons you get one big one. OMG IT'S SWTOR ARAMAGEDDON. Half of you people think the game is perfect the way it is? It is going to change sooner or later anyway due to current imbalances whether you grasp and understand that clearly or not and it certainly is, if nothing else, not perfect.

 

I don't want to roll a Shadow. I want my Sentinel to wield a double bladed saber. That's it. So stop saying that I should roll something else.

 

I think you want the Seperatists to win, don't you.

 

Can some one please tell me how to formally request this to Bioware? We will let them decide.

Edited January 23, 2012 by SLIMDOGGIE

[Ranadiel_Marius]

Can some one please tell me how to formally request this to Bioware? We will let them decide.

It was suggested countless times since the game was announced. Guess what? Bioware already did decide and they didn't agree with you. That is why the game is how it is.