Bad players are going to ultimately get Sentinels nerfed.

[slowantics]

we do lack something in pvp. i always seem to be close to kill someone and they cc me. and look my anti cc are on cool down. they run away. and i lose the kill.

we cant take hits. our def buff is a joke its over before the fight is. we only have one attack to get close to ppl. and if thats on cool down they will usually kill us before we get to them

im a lvl 50 sent with 3 champ gear. it shouldnt be this hard to compete with everyone

 

the only time i feel strogn is when i have a healeri can dish out 300k, w.o one at most 200k-ish. othe rclasses seem to reach 300k with ease w.o a healer

Edited January 18, 2012 by slowantics

[JamieKirby]

So because other classes are easier to play, this makes them over powered?

 

Because I've yet to run into a a commando or merc, or sage or sorc I couldn't crush 1v1 including very good players.

 

In fact, if you have ANY problem at all killing Mercenaries and Commandos you should really go back to basics and look at exactly what those classes do.

 

Commandos and Mercenaries are one of, if not the most overrated class in the game. They are absurdly easy to kill, they are absurdly easy to shut down. IF you ignore them yes they can grav or tracer spam for pretty solid damage. However, if you are competent, or playing with anyone competent they will NEVER get to free cast.

 

Their primary DPS ability is a 1.5s cast time. They have a secondary 1.5s cast time ability it is called charged bolts for Commandos, forget what it is for Mercs most players don't even hotkey it. If you interrupt this ability they literally cannot do anything for 4s. They can jump into their Full Auto Ability but EVERYTHING they use builds off of tracer and grav. Shut tracer and grav down every time they try to use it and they lose nearly all of their DPS and become free kills.

 

Sages and Sorcerors are too squishy to pose a real threat. You close to them, snare them, kick any heals and they will die unless they blow all their cool downs to escape. Next time they won't have those abilities and your own defensive cool downs used appropriately ensure that unless they roll in fresh, and you are cool down exhausted they will never beat you. This however is systemic to the game and indeed all tab target style MMOs. If someone jumps you with all their short duration cool downs up and uses them and you don't have any of yours up you're almost 100% going to lose provided the guy attacking isn't TERRIBLE.

 

Actually, its not the fact that they are easier to play or more overpowered, its just that you need to make much more of an effort to get something done as a sentinel or a guardian, that a trooper, smuggler, sage can do with much less an effort, but its a fact that bioware have said that jedi knights and sith warriors have some survivability issues, the dps is fine as is, they just need some tweaking with their survivability.

[JamieKirby]

The only class-specific buffs that are needed are a little smoothing out of Combat/Carnage. Specifically around the duration / GCD-use of Precision Slash, and probably a small increase in passive damage, like a 5-10% crit buff on the 6s buff from Ataru procs.

 

Focus is completely fine as long as they don't dick with Transcendence. Watchman is fine.

 

 

Everything else is UI or client-server related.

 

 

I agree with the OP: ifwhen they buff Mara/Sents because of the baddies, some players will go so far godmode that nerfs are inevitable.

 

Well, considering the fact that pvp'ers tend to go out of their way to find legit ways to gain an advantage anyway, i wouldn't be surprised if the buffs lead to a nerf, alot of pvp'ers want challenge, so do mostly pvp, yet go out of their way to look for advantages to make sure they always win or atleast win most of the time.

[arcueiid]

Hi. I normally don't reply to any threads, but several people pointed me towards some Sentinal guy mentioning me with some false information.

 

First of all, I don't even know you. I know a few Sents on the server and you are not it.

 

Second, we have NEVER 1v1'd. Sure maybe one day you killed me while I was at 50% health running around without stealth, like I usually do. That does not count as 1v1.

 

Third, don't assume because there is Battlemasters in my Warzone group that they were my "pre-made". I am flattered that you actually remembered winning against a WZ I was in! woop woop <3

 

 

Oh and btw, I've never been tank spec for more than 4 hours. So stop flattering yourself with your little 'we can't kill each other when he is tank spec'. I've never tried going for you, and probably won't bother with you unless you are doing something important.

 

I respect a few people in your guild like Keymu, Slix, Fred, but you are probably one of their worst players. Give Felon a call and ask him how to play a Sentinel, I'm sure he'll teach you a few tricks.

 

Anyways, go Sents + Marauders!! good ones are tough to kill

 

LMAO. You don't remember him, but remmeber that he's a "bad player"

 

Ethugs talking mad crap with their pocket healers. lawl

 

I'm glad you need all the handicap you can get

[Apocalypse-]

Actually, its not the fact that they are easier to play or more overpowered, its just that you need to make much more of an effort to get something done as a sentinel or a guardian, that a trooper, smuggler, sage can do with much less an effort, but its a fact that bioware have said that jedi knights and sith warriors have some survivability issues, the dps is fine as is, they just need some tweaking with their survivability.

 

They said DPS GUARDIANS and JUGGERNAUTS have survivability issues. They said Sentinels were complex. One plus apple does not equal elephant. Also, "harder to play" and "requires more effort" are synonyms in this case...

 

Well, considering the fact that pvp'ers tend to go out of their way to find legit ways to gain an advantage anyway, i wouldn't be surprised if the buffs lead to a nerf, alot of pvp'ers want challenge, so do mostly pvp, yet go out of their way to look for advantages to make sure they always win or atleast win most of the time.

You clearly have no idea what a PvP mentality is. It's not about advantages to win. It's about minimizing the self-handicaps you inflict on yourself, like a bad spec or bad gear. If someone beats me, I want to know that I got outplayed, not that I shot myself in the foot before the fight started. However, that is NOT the same as wanting to be untouchable. Sentinels are already borderline overpowered in the right hands, any buff beyond bug fixes could easily push us into that range.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Apocalypse-

[Tiduslol]

LMAO. You don't remember him, but remmeber that he's a "bad player"

 

Ethugs talking mad crap with their pocket healers. lawl

 

I'm glad you need all the handicap you can get

 

 

I let my gaming do the talking. I queued up solo from 50 to 60 many nights while grinding. I think i paid my dues. Not my fault I actually have a group of people that likes to do some teamwork. Last I remember you can't win a WZ by yourself.

 

I'm sorry we're working as a team, and you are not. You should try it:)

[EasymodeX]

Maybe you're just not good enough to win a warzone by yourself?

[Tiduslol]

Maybe you're just not good enough to win a warzone by yourself?

 

^ Correct! Go Marauders+Sents!

[arcueiid]

ROFL, this guy.

 

So you're what a battle master or pretty much in all tier 2 PvP gear (champion or whatever?).

You want to talk big like you think you SKILL alone makes you win WZ's by yourself?

You don't think that having a full or near full set of Champion/BM/Centurion gear makes you have an advantage over killing fresh lvl50s (like me?)

 

You definitely deserve a cookie. Mr. "I solo WZ and am the sole reason my WZ win" Ethug. Like I said earlier. I'm glad you need all the advantages to kill/win And by advantanges I mean from grinding to lvl50 faster than the rest, having a set of PvP gear with high expertise, etc.

 

So what flavor of cookie?

I let my gaming do the talking. I queued up solo from 50 to 60 many nights while grinding. I think i paid my dues. Not my fault I actually have a group of people that likes to do some teamwork. Last I remember you can't win a WZ by yourself.

 

I'm sorry we're working as a team, and you are not. You should try it:)

[Toppins]

I let my gaming do the talking. I queued up solo from 50 to 60 many nights while grinding. I think i paid my dues. Not my fault I actually have a group of people that likes to do some teamwork. Last I remember you can't win a WZ by yourself.

 

I'm sorry we're working as a team, and you are not. You should try it:)

 

I believe that you solo queued a lot early on; it's the only way to get to 60 valor so quickly. I don't get to play 12 hours a day, but when I do I like to play with guildmates, so I can have memorable matches like the Alderaan yesterday morning. I don't think Xavory was there but I know I was stuck to Anethia the whole time. You probably don't lose many Alderaans from what I've seen of my faction in huttball so I'm sure you recall bmore, slix, and me going 1-2-3 in damage (all just above 300k) in the W, validating Sentinels as a solid member of any team make-up. I'm not recounting this as "lol I won" but to assuage the concerns of those that feel Sentinels are underpowered. This isn't beating on lvl 12's, it's a fair fight between geared 50's.

 

Transcendence is the best-kept secret in the "lol op skill" department. Your whole team moving at +80% speed in combat (when talented) for 10 seconds? Yes please. Not having a Sentinel or Marauder in your group is gimping yourself.

[Tiduslol]

ROFL, this guy.

 

So you're what a battle master or pretty much in all tier 2 PvP gear (champion or whatever?).

You want to talk big like you think you SKILL alone makes you win WZ's by yourself?

You don't think that having a full or near full set of Champion/BM/Centurion gear makes you have an advantage over killing fresh lvl50s (like me?)

 

You definitely deserve a cookie. Mr. "I solo WZ and am the sole reason my WZ win" Ethug. Like I said earlier. I'm glad you need all the advantages to kill/win And by advantanges I mean from grinding to lvl50 faster than the rest, having a set of PvP gear with high expertise, etc.

 

So what flavor of cookie?

 

 

Where in my post did I say I solo win PvP matches? I clearly stated that It's because of teamwork, and ONE PERSON cannot win by themselves. Learn to read troll.

 

Toppings, yeah. Semester over = tons of time to play. Prolly got like 2-3 hours a day now with a buzy semester coming up next week -_-

[kaya]

Im perfectly happy with Watchman and would be extremely dissapointed if they simplified it. Its tough to play and if im tired or distracted then i have a hard time with it. I compete with anything if im not though. The level of complication of the spec is part of its charm imo.

Any issues i have with the spec are general melee dps problems that are unrelated to sentinel specifically.

 

Combat could do with a buff, it seems to have roughly the same damage as watchman (impossible to tell atm) but a fraction of the utility and defence.

Its a lot simpler to play though and if they want to simplify the spec then alterations to this tree would be welcome. The main areas it suffers imo is their lack of centering generating buffs and defence.

 

Their zen buff is pretty underwhelming too but personally i'd rather have the trancendance buff from the watchman tree (not like they're using it) and maybe some damage buff rolled into it (lowering the gcd to 1 sec for its duration or increasing damage by 10%).

Trancendance feels more like a combat buff with the movement speed increase and the defensive aspects of it would be welcome. Just give it some sort of damage buff - it doesn't need to be a massive one damage isn't the issue for combat just something to make it more appealing as an alternative to zen. It would give combat a nice niche and nice defensive buff

Edited January 18, 2012 by kaya

[arcueiid]

Where in my post did I say I solo win PvP matches? I clearly stated that It's because of teamwork, and ONE PERSON cannot win by themselves. Learn to read troll.

 

Toppings, yeah. Semester over = tons of time to play. Prolly got like 2-3 hours a day now with a buzy semester coming up next week -_-

 

Lol. "I let my gaming do the talking" is an arrogant statement. I guess you don't mention your gear/lvl difference when you face off vs the massive majority of Republic lowbies that queue for warzones.

 

Funny guy, this one.

[Tiduslol]

Lol. "I let my gaming do the talking" is an arrogant statement. I guess you don't mention your gear/lvl difference when you face off vs the massive majority of Republic lowbies that queue for warzones.

 

Funny guy, this one.

 

Oh right, hold on. Let me take off my gear while I do WZs because people might not have the same gear I have!

 

I'm sorry. Welcome to MMOs. I'm sure once rateds come out people will also be QQing because the people at the top work together for a common goal.

 

/shrug, but your trolling is fail. Back to Marauders and Sents.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Tiduslol

[Vobnash]

I don't want better CC.

.

 

C'mon bro, at least give us 1 stun that doesn't require a channeling. Everything else I agree with you.

[Crabbok]

To the original post:

 

Your logic simply isn't sound. You make a few assumptions here:

 

1) everyone who complains about Sentinels are bad players

 

2) you are an amazing player

 

You are afraid that if sentinel gets buffed, your uberness will be so extreme that it will ecourage the masses to cry out for sentinel nerfs, thus resulting in a nerf. If that is the case, wouldn't you still stand head and shoulders above every other sentinel? I mean if you are that uber right? And if that is the case, wouldn't the cycle simply repeat itself, resulting in the bad players trying to get buffed again? I mean this way at least you'd get godly buffed once in awhile.

 

Or are you just afraid that other people might be able to be as good as you are with a few tweaks?

[Toppins]

Toppings, yeah. Semester over = tons of time to play. Prolly got like 2-3 hours a day now with a buzy semester coming up next week -_-

 

That's too bad, I know your team always put up a good fight in WZ's and on Ilum. Will you be playing mostly mornings or evenings now? Order of Shadows has some of the few Sorc healers that know how to stay alive.

 

 

To the point about needing a non-channeled stun... why? Sentinels are designed to beat up on casters. Great interrupts, great mobility, no cast-time on abilities... we're the kind of class other classes NEED a stun for... how else can we be shut down? Meanwhile it's laughably easy for a Sentinel to shut down a Mercenary, Heals Operative, or a Sorcerer because our interrupts combine to be much better than a non-channeled stun against such classes.

 

So who do you need a stun against? An Operative or Assassin? Maybe, but we're hardly their first target and so meetings between our classes are generally uncommon (or should be). Even then, our easy-to-apply DoT's make it a pain for them to stealth away, our hard-mitigation defensive abilities frustrate their burst-focus, and their defensive abilities are more geared towards defending against non-physical damage.

 

So what would this stun accomplish? I suppose the big advantage would be against Juggernauts/Powertechs, but is that necessary from a design standpoint if the game is being balanced around teamplay?

[EasymodeX]

Mara/Sents simply do not need an additional random CC capability. The current arsenal is plenty.

 

The biggest capability-specific change that actually makes sense is for BioWare to go through the abilities of all classes and make fewer of them Tech powers and Force powers -- make more of them melee attacks or range attacks -- so that Obfuscate and Saber Ward are more consistent in performance. This also applies to the general effectiveness of Defense and Shield rating for tanks across the board. However, this is a core combat mechanics change that would take a bit of effort to double check and tune dozens of abilities across all the ACs.

 

Stuff like Op/Scoundrel backstabs from stealth or other abilities -- so many abilities would simply make more sense as melee/range attacks rather than "TECH/FORCE I AUTOHIT EVERYTHING" powers.

 

 

Edit: On the other hand, this wouldn't really buff Mara/Sents a large amount, so I consider this a lower priority.

Edited January 18, 2012 by EasymodeX

[jbrunken]

Bioware will finally cave and address the bad players. They will give sentinels something they don't need and good players will become /godmode resulting in an over compensation that crushes the class.

 

That is my prediction anyways.

 

 

I'm fine with the abilities of the class. I would just like to see the mechanics of the class fixed. My DPS went up quite a bit when I realized the bugs where there (stuttering, etc) and figured out how to work around them. My DPS would go up a bit more if I didn't have to work around them. These issues may not be happening to every sentinel player out there, but they are definitely an issue for me and many others.

 

But again, I agree that the class itself is fine.

[Swarna]

Jung Ma circle jerk! AWWW YEAHHH

[Jaysun]

played Sents/Mard in every beta over the last 5 builds to 30+..

 

after playing my Guardian I now-somewhat-feel like a Jedi. Albeit still gimpy.

 

still love the class(es) I just dont know how to make them better without making them God-like..

/shrug

 

Sentinels are whirling, twirling, flailing bundles of pent up rage ...

 

did you ever notice..

 

that if you listen really hard, every Sent/Mard with their glow sticks have their own Euro-House/trance music to them.. its low though.. its kinda like

 

its there, I hear it!

 

so as they are whirling and twirling-just before you CC then kill them, raise you volume up a bit.. you may catch the .boom-tist-boom-tis-t,-boom-boom-tist-boom-tist..

 

 

class is fine but simply not fun to play for most

Edited January 19, 2012 by Jaysun

[Toppins]

Jung Ma circle jerk! AWWW YEAHHH

 

Jung Ma circle jerks are my favorite kind.

 

Server forums please?

 

What are your feelings on the actual topic, mr. marauder?

[Swarna]

Jung Ma circle jerks are my favorite kind.

 

Server forums please?

 

What are your feelings on the actual topic, mr. marauder?

 

K, I'm gonna speak as mainly a solo-queuer/duo-queuer with no pocket supporter. I'm gonna share the same sentiments as most of you regarding the fact that Sents/Marauders are extremely strong. Exceptional damage-to-survivability ratio in a nutshell. I agree that any buffs except for small tweaks to specific specs (Combat/Carnage mainly) will make them ridiculous to the point of game-breaking.

 

The ONLY major problem is that the class is too mechanically hard to play for new or more average Joe-type players to try out, and that is where I can guarantee the bulk of the QQ about this class comes from. I'm not even talking about gameplay and awareness-wise (thought that's always required), but more mechanically and buttons-wise. There is an overwhelming amount of abilities, like any other class. The difference here is that this class is possibly the most unforgiving on your combat performance if you're not up to par. So if said average Joe were to play a Commando they would perform decently without having to attempt to better themselves as opposed to being terrible on a Marauder. I base these conclusion from regularly talking to a couple of under-performing Marauders on my server when I try to help them out. Half the time, these guys don't KNOW what it is they're doing wrong (little things like not using their blind, managing a good priority system, using their Centering/Fury moves, etc etc) or won't even acknowledge the fact that they are and jump on the "Marauder UP bandwagon".

 

I think Bioware is pretty smart and are aware of this specific thing. They've already stated that Sents/Marauders are "too gameplay intensive" and will probably look at changes to make the class easier to play in the future. Note that making it easier to play doesn't have to equal buffs. Small things like consolidating multiple abilities into one (the finisher and the trauma-inducing saber throws as a possible example) can greatly help lesser-able players perform closer to better players and would serve as a quality-of-life fix.

 

I personally don't want to see any kind of major changes, be it buffs or quality-of-life changes, because I like feeling special as a "decent" Marauder but I understand the need for a company to please their entire audience. Marauders that click their abilities or think there's something wrong with the class rather than themselves are, unfortunately, part of this playerbase.