If scoundrels need a nerf.....

[Llilium]

I'm only level 43 and usually as a scoundral myself, i EAT ops up like crazy, however in huttball other scoundrals and ops usually open on me the most rediculously simple end to their damage is to stop their initial burst. after being knocked down from their opener, i hit my "trinket" and CC them, then start on my own burst.

 

its simple. not at all tasking to stop a scoundral from killing you. if you're an inq/ consular dying to scoundral, you're flat out bad. you had that rediculous flee ability at your disposal and packing on a shield before you use it ensures escaped from deaths.

[neurosisxeno]

I'm only level 43 and usually as a scoundral myself, i EAT ops up like crazy, however in huttball other scoundrals and ops usually open on me the most rediculously simple end to their damage is to stop their initial burst. after being knocked down from their opener, i hit my "trinket" and CC them, then start on my own burst.

 

It's almost like... like you... learned... how to play against them... WHAT IS THIS SORCERY!?!?>#

[da_krall]

First, let me say I play a level 50 scoundrel on the Shadow Hand server. You can decide for yourself if I am speaking from a position of bias.

 

Anyway, I read the forums daily and see all the threads about nerfing scoundrels and operatives. So, I did some rather unscientific research on the server I play on. I wanted to get an idea of class distribution at level 50 around prime time one night. The following were the results.

 

Commando............42

Gunslinger............. 8

Jedi Guardian.........14

Jedi Sage...............38

Jedi Sentinel...........23

Jedi Shadow...........17

Scoundrel................3

Vanguard...............29

 

So, based on this data the scoundrel is by far the least played advance class on the server I play on. Assuming this is true for most servers something does not make sense. Usually in mmo games if a class is perceived as over powered they attain flavor of the month (FOTM) status and is the most played class. However, this class appears to be very underplayed. Considering each advanced class has three possible skill trees, you could possibly have only one saw bones, dirty fighting and scrapper on your server.

 

Based on the unscientific data I presented what are your thoughts? Having played a rogue in WoW I can tell you I don't think the class is overpowered when facing similarly geared and skilled players. I can tear up sorcerers somewhat easy but have a really hard time with power tech tanks, certain sith assassins and some bounty hunters.

 

Commandos and Mercs are very OP. they are just keeping their head down under the flood of smug/op victim tears.

[mandrillagon]

Commandos actually need a nerf by having a cooldown on their grav rounds before scoundrel nerf. Both being nerfed at the same time would be fine as well. All other classes are fine except Commandos and Scoundrels being insanely OP.

[Localhost]

First, let me say I play a level 50 scoundrel on the Shadow Hand server. You can decide for yourself if I am speaking from a position of bias.

 

Anyway, I read the forums daily and see all the threads about nerfing scoundrels and operatives. So, I did some rather unscientific research on the server I play on. I wanted to get an idea of class distribution at level 50 around prime time one night. The following were the results.

 

Commando............42

Gunslinger............. 8

Jedi Guardian.........14

Jedi Sage...............38

Jedi Sentinel...........23

Jedi Shadow...........17

Scoundrel................3

Vanguard...............29

 

So, based on this data the scoundrel is by far the least played advance class on the server I play on. Assuming this is true for most servers something does not make sense. Usually in mmo games if a class is perceived as over powered they attain flavor of the month (FOTM) status and is the most played class. However, this class appears to be very underplayed. Considering each advanced class has three possible skill trees, you could possibly have only one saw bones, dirty fighting and scrapper on your server.

 

Based on the unscientific data I presented what are your thoughts? Having played a rogue in WoW I can tell you I don't think the class is overpowered when facing similarly geared and skilled players. I can tear up sorcerers somewhat easy but have a really hard time with power tech tanks, certain sith assassins and some bounty hunters.

 

 

You are bias and not to bright as well it would seem. How many of you there are has no factor in the determination of if you should be nerfed or not. I could tear your whole post apart but I'll just use your last few words. You have trouble with "some" bounty Hunters. They are your easiest prey by far. If you are getting beat by one you attacked when you should have or just don't know how to play the class. I guess both may be true in the end.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Localhost

[theMornox]

scoundrels are fine.

 

consumables are not, but are reworked incoming patch.

 

everything is smooth for the moment!

[Fdzzaigl]

So, based on this data the scoundrel is by far the least played advance class on the server I play on. Assuming this is true for most servers something does not make sense. Usually in mmo games if a class is perceived as over powered they attain flavor of the month (FOTM) status and is the most played class. However, this class appears to be very underplayed. Considering each advanced class has three possible skill trees, you could possibly have only one saw bones, dirty fighting and scrapper on your server.

 

Based on the unscientific data I presented what are your thoughts? Having played a rogue in WoW I can tell you I don't think the class is overpowered when facing similarly geared and skilled players. I can tear up sorcerers somewhat easy but have a really hard time with power tech tanks, certain sith assassins and some bounty hunters.

 

I think that's the big problem. You can assume nothing from that as your results are incomplete and give a limited image of a certain area in the game at a certain time.

 

Honestly, BioWare has the results, that's not the problem, they'll know which class is the most played and which class the least.

 

But a class having some very powerful mechanics (OP even) doesn't immediately mean people will stop investing in their current character and start a new one. Especially because there a various problems that lead to big burst and definitely not everyone is lvl 50 yet, or geared.

 

If the situation remains unchanged and the perception of that reality persists, then people will probably gradually begin changing. But it's far too early for that imo.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Fdzzaigl

[adanali_umut]

scoundrel operative are cheat class day push hit 4000 dmg even with pvp gear.

than the push on grond hit great dmg and u have the bleeding dmg and stunn with the knife

basicly u cannot attack all only die. i think day do not need sleath give snipers need them. rater no sleath and less bleeding dmg, dmg

Edited January 17, 2012 by adanali_umut

[BDutch]

Using scoundrel terminology, off the top of my head, I would probably:

1) Remove the bleed from Flechette Round, 50% armor penetration on demand is enough.

2) Change Flying Fists

from: Sucker Punch has a 50% change to deal [x] damage additional damage once every 10 seconds.

to: Sucker Punch has a 100% chance to cause internal bleeding for [x] damage over 10 seconds.

This would basically make Sucker Punch spammable after a blaster whip given the Round Two talent.

3) Change K.O from the faceplant stun to Backblast/Flechette round have a 100% chance of interrupting the target (and daze NPCs though that doesn't matter in PvP)

 

These changes would:

1) Nerf scrapper's initial stun

2) Spread scrapper's DPS out from the opener to in-combat

3) Buff scrapper's utility via interrupt capabilities

 

Putting more power into Sucker Punch in the middle of the tree would also enable some more creative hybrid healing builds, which would be better for everyone. Dirty Fighting really needs a rework more than scrapper, but this is the tree that everyone is crying about.

Edited January 17, 2012 by BDutch

[theMornox]

scoundrel operative are cheat class day push hit 4000 dmg even with pvp gear.

than the push on grond hit great dmg and u have the bleeding dmg and stunn with the knife

basicly u cannot attack all only die. i think day do not need sleath give snipers need them. rater no sleath and less bleeding dmg, dmg

 

troll identified

[bennyrosso]

His statistic are a starting point, add your own /WHO instead of blaming him.

I can add that I didn't notice many operatives around, maybe more will come now that u convinced them that we are OP (I'm healing atm after 30 ranks of dps)

 

I leveled assassin dps and operative dps to 50,

yes operative is a little bit harder but not so much,

I imagine other AC being much easier then....well maybe not the warriors.

 

To the guy mentioning the cover mechanic...operatives don't use cover, only snipers.

[Ancient_karp]

Scoundrels can stealth, heal, cc, and do great dps. I'm trying to understand what they're giving up in order to have initiative in every fight that they choose?

 

Tell me one scoundrel that fears an assassin... there's your balance issue.

[lightertripod]

Yes you are. Saying you're not a scrub makes me think you indeed are and try to cover it up!

 

Anyway, I have a 50 Sentinel and I just tear people to shreds most of the time. Not once have I been soloed by an operative. Snipers annoy me but no Operative has managed to best be in a 1v1 situation so far. 2 of them yes. But it's TWO!

 

I SAY THIS WITH UTMOST CERTAINTY: 99% OF THE DERPS ON THIS FORUM THAT QQ ABOUT OPS/SCOUNDRELS ONLY GAZED IN AWE AT THE 9K CRIT YOUTUBE VIDEOS AND ARE TOTAL FANBOYS. But have not and will not ever be capable of leveling one to 50 just to try it out themselves.

 

Must suck sucking so much that you start living a lie and ask for totally non-necessary nerfs just because YOU SAW ON YOUTUBE IT "COULD" HAPPEN. I CRIT FOR 7 K AOE almost every 10 seconds - not to mention I become nearly invulnerable for like 30 if I pop only SOME of my cooldowns.

 

It's just a matter of learning to play and evolving from the WoW-fanboysm state where the class balance was decided by the ammount of QQ on the forums. I'm so sick of this.

 

so you beat them 1 on 1 so they are ok you then go on to state you can be come nearly invulnerable for 30 seconds mmmm there something I want to point out here but not quite put me finger on it

 

when you look at anything regards balance you need to look past your own prospective if one class with one setup can beat another 1 on 1 it makes nothing balanced

 

even if you op/sco beat every class 1 on 1 9/10 I can live with that its a team game some are good 1 on 1 have a much more team roll

 

but if its a 9/10 1 on 1 and they are almost unstoppable in team situation cause they literally kill any one in seconds regardless

 

there burst is way to high that combined with there opener makes a one sided game play experiance

 

its sad that no mmo has every learn that stealth class's always make for bonked game play panda to the cry's of some but makes the over all game worse for it. been the same in every game I have played

 

change to op/sco needs to be reduce the lengh of opener stun max 2 seconds and sucker punch/knive needs to be either cooldown reduction or chance to refresh not a 100% reuse on use spamming the same move over and over is a poor game desgin

[BDutch]

Scoundrels can stealth, heal, cc, and do great dps. I'm trying to understand what they're giving up in order to have initiative in every fight that they choose?

 

Tell me one scoundrel that fears an assassin... there's your balance issue.

 

The way the trees are set up you can't do good healing and good dps at the same time.

[theMornox]

confirmed: never been killed by an operative 1v1 (champion guardian, focus).

 

still guess the QQ comes from bolstered lowis who get killed by expertise geared, consumabe using 50 scoundrels. lets see what happens with brackets.

[Ghingis]

Give it a couple of weeks without changes to Scoundrels and you will have your new "data". Game is just released and people rolled other classes from the start and got up to 50, most people wont just reroll instantly but keep playing their class, so you can not rely on this at all right now.

[Sevvy]

I SAY THIS WITH UTMOST CERTAINTY: 99% OF THE DERPS ON THIS FORUM THAT QQ ABOUT OPS/SCOUNDRELS ONLY GAZED IN AWE AT THE 9K CRIT YOUTUBE VIDEOS AND ARE TOTAL FANBOYS. But have not and will not ever be capable of leveling one to 50 just to try it out themselves.

 

Must suck sucking so much that you start living a lie and ask for totally non-necessary nerfs just because YOU SAW ON YOUTUBE IT "COULD" HAPPEN. I CRIT FOR 7 K AOE almost every 10 seconds - not to mention I become nearly invulnerable for like 30 if I pop only SOME of my cooldowns.

 

It's just a matter of learning to play and evolving from the WoW-fanboysm state where the class balance was decided by the ammount of QQ on the forums. I'm so sick of this.

 

Which is why 1 of 2 things are going to happen:

 

1. Bioware will cave to the drooling, ability-clicking, keyboard-turning masses and overnerf Operatives to the point where they will become all but extinct because of how bad they are.

 

2. Bioware will realize that people that incessantly QQ are just horrendous players that cannot beat good players let alone other bad players regardless of class/spec/level/gear.

 

 

The people crying about nerfs can't put together a constructive discussion. All they do is cry, exaggerate to the nth degree, and demand overnerfs like 50% damage reduction, 30s CD on OOC stealth with no ability to combat stealth, removing Acid Blade, etc.

 

If Bioware becomes Blizzardware and decides to nerf Operatives without buffing us at the same time, that class is likely done in PvP. And that's how you can tell who is just a bad player that gets stomped by Operatives and has never once tried to learn of a way to counter them. They'd love to see Operatives nerfed to the point where they are unplayable.

[carbocat]

The amount of people who roll a character has nothing to do with actual balance issues. It has to do with percieved balance issues.

 

While Scoundrels and Agents are an akward class to level (the cover system being unique to this game) the fact is 1 particular spec's burst is insane when coupled with stacking buffs and powerups.

 

They're addressing the buffs/powerups in the next patch. So we'll soon see if the class genuinely needs to be adjusted or if it's just the stacking that's the issue.

 

There will still be kids that live on this forums 24/7 that will make QQ threads anyway.

 

They scream for balance and nerf etc, but they dont even know what a game would be like if everything was balanced =

 

Every class is same/same gear/same abilities etc. every class uses the same spell, that would be balance...boring? ye.

 

If you like that i suggest go play marvel vs capcom, street fighter, cause this game isnt for you!

[Ancient_karp]

Every class is same/same gear/same abilities etc. every class uses the same spell, that would be balance...boring? ye.

 

Everyone could just roll a scoundrel. That would take care of it...

 

Perceived class balance is what encourages diversity. Similarly, it's what encourages participation. Wolves need sheep.

[mosharie]

I still maintain my assertion yesterday in reference to the direct correlation between what percentage of players play a particular class and their relative power. I have played mmo games for many years. I will list some examples of what I am talking about.

 

In Everquest 1 druids were considered powerful. Hence there were many druids running around during the early years of the game. As time went by their relative power was perceived to have dwindled. Now they are the least played class. So, as perceived power declined so did the percentage of people playing the class.

 

In Dark Age of Camelot there was a class called the warlock. The class was well known to be able to rapidly kill other players by front loading high damage nukes in something called chambers. A high percentage of the Midgard population played this class. Subsequently the class was nerfed and afterwards the popularity of the class declined significantly.

 

More recently in World of Warcraft a game mechanic called vengeance helped tank specced players. As the player is hit their attack power goes up to tremendous levels. The player that is in the role of a tank is now an offensive juggernaut. The number of tank specced players rose tremendously in battlegrounds. Did so many people just happen to want to play a tank or did it have something to do with what could be considered over powered? Again you have another example of a class/role considered over powered and a direct correlation with class representation.

 

I quoted three examples but I could quote many more. If people responding to this thread have played mmo's in the past how could you dismiss the assertion of relative class power and class representation?

[Ancient_karp]

The common thread is that PvP enthusiasts are willing to do almost anything to win. They will use adrenals/stims, they will level the right class, they will farm the right gear. It's not about challenge or a level playing field. It's about using every tool at your disposal to have an advantage.

 

MMO's encourage all of these things and are poorly designed if balanced pvp gameplay is what you're after.

[mosharie]

The common thread is that PvP enthusiasts are willing to do almost anything to win. They will use adrenals/stims, they will level the right class, they will farm the right gear. It's not about challenge or a level playing field. It's about using every tool at your disposal to have an advantage.

 

MMO's encourage all of these things and are poorly designed if balanced pvp gameplay is what you're after.

 

I agree with all of this! If the operative and scoundrel is indeed overpowered then why are these classes the least played if there is an advantage to be attained by playing them?

[maradigamer]

i have heard multiple times that IA/Smuggler leveling is the most difficult in the game. I dont find it hard, but im not a scrub so idk lol.

 

I must be a scrub, then, because I found my scoundrel to be incredibly annoying and gave up pretty fast. They ought to be worth something in pvp, because they're really irritating in pve. Not impossible to level by any means, but from what I saw, not very fun, either.

[Ancient_karp]

If the operative and scoundrel is indeed overpowered then why are these classes the least played if there is an advantage to be attained by playing them?

 

The barrier right now is the 1-50 grind on a class that isn't fun to level until about level 38. We're in an arms race phase where people are gearing up their first 50. If scoundrels/ops continue to remain the 1v1 machines they are, you can bet that more of them will start showing up in the battlegrounds.