Why Sorcs need a nerf

[Lastboss]

The set is for healers. Force armor drains Force, so you can't spam it, especially if you aren't healer spec'd. And if you are, then CC and DPS are not a real concern.

It's still 20 seconds. And it draining Force armor is not really a valid argument, in the sense that you probably will not spam it on allies, but you can still apply it to YOURSELF every 20 sec. And if you need to apply it to a teammate to win the fight, you got the choice to do so. Utility.

 

Don't think you understand what I am saying here. I am saying you cannot have good burst, and all these instant casts. You have to choose. And if you want to heal, well that is a third choice you have to make.

Yes you can. I'm a Sniper, and my guildmate who I duel every now and then is specced for instant casts. It's a DPS-race on eachother, and we win and lose 50/50 of the times. So you must be doing something wrong if you can not produce DPS in similar fashion. Oh yeah.. And as a Sniper, I do not have heals, pulls, shields or sprint. Do you think they should buff Snipers with tons of damage then, to make up for the loss of utility?

 

If we sprint away, why the hell would you chase us if you were in a heavily contested zone? We retreated, that means you won. We can heal and come back but it would take about 15 seconds to fully heal, then we would also have low Force. If you are talking about sprinting away on 1v1, then you can easily get back within range and start hitting us before we get more than a heal off. Again, it will be Force costly too. If we are healer spec'd then you shouldn't have a problem 1v1 anyway.

Why I want to kill you and not let you escape with 10%-20% HP? Because you usually have a healer around that can heal you up to full health in a matter of seconds, before you reenter the fight.

 

To me, it sounds more like you refuse to see the true nature of the Sorc/Sage. That's the same thing I think of you right now. And again, you misunderstand what I typed. I am not saying our burst should kill you before the CC runs out. What I am saying is, considering our damage, our CC isn't that bad. Our long CC is breakable on any damage, including DoTs, and so to complain about our other CC ability, a 4 sec stun is ridiculous when we can barely do anything in that time. 2 casts tops, neither of which will do much damage.

No, your CC isn't that bad, but that wasn't the point either. It's the fact that you also got a shield, and a sprint, and a pull.. Sigh..

[KorwinOfAmber]

Sorcs OP? I wish it was true. I wish...

[Orangerascal]

Believe me. I have a RL buddy I play with almost every day that is sorc. Your energy management is close to non-existant. Oh yeah, in drawnout fights where you have been spamming non-stop for several minutes you might get low. Commando however have to think energy management every single time he presses the buttons. If he doesnt execute certain combos correctly or use the right skills we will be below 40% ammo in 3 casts, which basically means GG as the regen suddenly became non-existant.

 

And that's why you have an ability that gives you back your ammo ... it's called recharge cells and it's on a relatively short (2 min cooldown). Our regen mechanic costs us to sacrifice life .... (a bad mechanic in pvp). Again ... grass .... greener .... other side.

 

Also our pvp healer is a commando and does just fine. Umbrella is his name, and my guildname on my signature (tomb of freedom nad), I would talk to him and ask him how to do it if I were you.

 

If not you can always reroll. Then you can come back and complain about being 3 shotted.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Gadrak]

completely agree,they have too much utilities,armor in this game is almost irrivelant unless you are a tank,and even there both sorcerers and sages can cause elemental and internal damage that completely ignores armor.

 

someone claim that the operative or scoundrel burst is over the top,ok,but trust me,nothing is more devastating than a well played sorc/sage

 

they need an huge nerfbat or other classes need more utility

 

as arsenal mercenary i only have a pathetic aoe knockdown(wich btw both sorcs and sages have with shorter cd) to defend myself against melee units

 

and i rely on a single ability that DOES NOT ignores armor and when gets interrupted im good as dead(did i mention that we dont have interrupts as well?)

 

frankly it's getting kinda frustrating that a sorc can do pretty much anything better than me.

[Mossesman]

Poor gear Sorcs are squishy as hell, but when you start seeing Valor rank 50+ Sorcs with Champion/Battlemaster gear you begin to see a massive improvement in there survivability.

[KorwinOfAmber]

If not you can always reroll. Then you can come back and complain about being 3 shotted.

 

That a best answer to this thread so far. People complaining about sorcs are spewing out some insane myths that have nothing to do with reality.

 

Sorc OP? Play one and come back tell if you still think so. Or try 1on1 any class without resorting to running like a chicken trying to heal yourself and slowly draining them, since your "overpowered" damage only scratches their armor while their single shot/charge attack takes half of your hp.

[Orangerascal]

Poor gear Sorcs are squishy as hell, but when you start seeing Valor rank 50+ Sorcs with Champion/Battlemaster gear you begin to see a massive improvement in there survivability.

 

So you're saying the better geared player has the advantage.

 

Contemplate this ... I must.

[Joskara]

Every class seems to be OP in this game...

 

Most of Sorc attacks are mitigated by armor. They have medium damage and no burts.

 

Against a good Mercenary they are at a disadvantage. Sure hey can interrupt your TM. But you have more skills. Yes, its true! Use PS instead and just out dps the Sorc. They can run but that wont kill you.

[Exothermix]

I love these theorycrafted fights on the forums where people constantly change the context of the fight, the classes, the specs etc.

 

They should dedicate a new forum board for them.

[Lastboss]

I thought the issue was sorcs doing too much damage ... if sorcs did too much damage, they would not have to running away. They would just drop you by killing you before you kill them. This isn't the case.

 

Ask any decent level 50 what they think about sages/sorcs. In fact only bad players complain about they've never been kited before. PVP mobs don't kite *shocker*

If you had bothered to actually read my opening post, instead of triggering you defense-mechanics immediately after reading the name of the thread, you would see that I clearly state that it's not their DAMAGE that makes them OP, it's their damage combined with their utility..

 

 

BH's are the other most whined about class on the thread (apart from IO), I'm going to bother talking about them. Snipers are ranged tanks in cover. They basically sacrifice their mobility and cc (although their knockback is sick) for a turret style gameplay. Sorc play is more mobile which is why it's frustrating to bad players who's use to fighting mobs that don't run away. Players don't whine about snipers because they can actually hit them (much weakly).

So if Snipers are ranged tanks in cover, how come I can duel an equally geared Sorc (we're both Valor rank 58) open field, just a pure DPS race, with him winning 50% of the time? Shouldn't I be able to outDPS him by a good margin because I do not have utility at all??

[KorwinOfAmber]

I miss the first week after launch where not "sorc is OP" but, Sith Inquisitor was OP threads were filling all the main page. People posting like "he shoot me with a lightning! then runed to me and stabbed me for half hp! then hid in stealth and then AoEed the hell out of my team from 30m away!". People still tend to talk this way about BH though, not distinguishes classes and builds.

 

Nowadays myth`s about sorcs are " Over 9000 damage spammable shield! All their casts are instant! They do top dps AND they heal! They are survivable like tanks, light armor and lowest hp in game do not matter!"

[Slechtvalk]

I hate you guys crying for nerfs or buffs.

 

PvP was not the intention of this game, it just made into, cause so many pvp player asked for.

So what ever will be nerfed or buffed, will also be in pve, and this is why i dont like complains about it.

 

Republic and Empire got Mirror classes.

 

Instead of crying like a baby you should manage your team. If you think pvp is just 1:1 go away where you came from.

 

I play both pvp and pve, and i get angry about what you cry.

 

Its not the classes,

 

its from up to down with high priority:

-Gear > Skill (if you had talked about that, i would agree)

-Level (which will end with patch 1.1)

-L2P in groups

-L2P

 

vote for close

[Orangerascal]

If you had bothered to actually read my opening post, instead of triggering you defense-mechanics immediately after reading the name of the thread, you would see that I clearly state that it's not their DAMAGE that makes them OP, it's their damage combined with their utility..

 

Except you said this in your OP.

 

- Great AoE damage

- Great burst

 

Both of which aren't true. Here's my challenge. Find a SS where a sorc has broken the 5k damage medal ... I'll wait. A sniper on the other get's this medal for free. That's what you call burst.

 

So if Snipers are ranged tanks in cover, how come I can duel an equally geared Sorc (we're both Valor rank 58) open field, just a pure DPS race, with him winning 50% of the time? Shouldn't I be able to outDPS him by a good margin because I do not have utility at all??

 

Probably because you have a bad rotation. Stop spamming 1 button. Why don't you post a video.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Lastboss]

I hate you guys crying for nerfs or buffs.

 

PvP was not the intention of this game, it just made into, cause so many pvp player asked for.

So what ever will be nerfed or buffed, will also be in pve, and this is why i dont like complains about it.

 

Republic and Empire got Mirror classes.

 

Instead of crying like a baby you should manage your team. If you think pvp is just 1:1 go away where you came from.

 

I play both pvp and pve, and i get angry about what you cry.

 

Its not the classes,

 

its from up to down with high priority:

-Gear > Skill (if you had talked about that, i would agree)

-Level (which will end with patch 1.1)

-L2P in groups

-L2P

 

vote for close

How about you minding your own business, instead of criticizing other people for questioning balance? You're probably just a Sorc realizing we got something going here, and do not want Sorcs back in the spotlight. Good thing your vote isn't worth anything at all. Now please adress the issues debated in this post, or start your own thread.

[Lastboss]

Except you said this in your OP.

 

- Great AoE damage

- Great burst

 

Both of which aren't true. Here's my challenge. Find a SS where a sorc has broken the 5k medal ... I'll wait. A sniper on the other get's this medal for free.

 

 

 

Probably because you have a bad rotation. Stop spamming 1 button.

Even better! I'll fraps a duel, and link it here on the forum.

[Orangerascal]

Even better! I'll fraps a duel, and link it here on the forum.

 

and post the gear of both players.

[Slechtvalk]

How about you minding your own business, instead of criticizing other people for questioning balance? You're probably just a Sorc realizing we got something going here, and do not want Sorcs back in the spotlight. Good thing your vote isn't worth anything at all. Now please adress the issues debated in this post, or start your own thread.

 

Which balance?

 

There will never be a balance in different classes. You got balance if you patch out all classes and leave one. you can read threads every day, nerf class 1, 5 minutes later, nerf class 2 and so on... there must be something wrong with calling each other as fotm class?

 

If you ever will understand the trinity of pvp, then you will begin to think about your group. There are so easy ways to kill sorcerer, just try to find out their weakness and what you are doing wrong instead crying for nerf.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Slechtvalk

[yellowledbetter]

If you're still losing to sorcs, it's you, not the class. Shield needs to be toned down but that's about it.

[KorwinOfAmber]

If you're still losing to sorcs, it's you, not the class. Shield needs to be toned down but that's about it.

 

It always gets me when someone speaks it - why the hell shield needs to be toned down? Its only 3k damage if talented and its team ability.

 

People complain "killing sorc with a shield", they dont complain about "when both teams have shields on all people".

Edited January 19, 2012 by Paralassa
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[Cyphen]

Believe me. I have a RL buddy I play with almost every day that is sorc. Your energy management is close to non-existant. Oh yeah, in drawnout fights where you have been spamming non-stop for several minutes you might get low. Commando however have to think energy management every single time he presses the buttons. If he doesnt execute certain combos correctly or use the right skills we will be below 40% ammo in 3 casts, which basically means GG as the regen suddenly became non-existant.

 

As Lightning you pretty much NEVER will go OOM. As Healer Sorc you can if you just careless but if you use all your abilities and Resurgence > Innervate > Consumption then going OOM is also very hard. As Madness, no idea but running out of force is more seen as Madness specced Sorc.

[ilkhan]

it's like godd*mn wow pvp forums again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA7YuWuIF-k

just gonna leave this here, watch if you want to get educated.

Edited January 16, 2012 by ilkhan

[Mossesman]

So you're saying the better geared player has the advantage.

 

Contemplate this ... I must.

 

Ofcourse they should have an advantage.

 

But when they have this improved survivability, they still have good damage, force shield (which absorbs a ton of damage), force run, good healing and lots of CC with it, something is wrong.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Mossesman

[Trackeri]

wouldn't be so much of an issue if you could actually silence the damned things.

 

but as it is, if you interrupt one spell they just switch to the other, there should be spell schools for just such a purpose because you can blow your entire bar of CC and still only hold one down for 6-7 seconds at most (giving them a full resolve bar in the process and wasting all your energy / cooldowns so that you have nothing left to actually deal damage with).

 

this combined with their sprints and lifegrip just give them far too much mobility and for little sacrifice.

[Zandon]

Yes you can. I'm a Sniper, and my guildmate who I duel every now and then is specced for instant casts. It's a DPS-race on eachother, and we win and lose 50/50 of the times. So you must be doing something wrong if you can not produce DPS in similar fashion. Oh yeah.. And as a Sniper, I do not have heals, pulls, shields or sprint. Do you think they should buff Snipers with tons of damage then, to make up for the loss of utility?

 

 

so you win 50/50 against a sorc and complain that they are too OP and have too much utility? I don't understand your issue if you win 50/50, that sounds very balanced to me. Is the problem that you feel you should dominate the sorc/sage class and win all the time?

[Slechtvalk]

Ofcourse they should have an advantage.

 

But when they have this improved survivability, they still have good damage, force shield (which absorbs a ton of damage), force run, good healing and lots of CC with it, something is wrong.

 

Needed Commando/Merc changes

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=184075

 

Nerf inquistors, bounty hunters, and warriors

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=184328

 

Scoundrels and Operatives NEED TO BE NERFED !

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=183935

 

i guess there are much more.

 

So, who is OP?? I dont get it.