Bioware: Allow Advanced Class Respec!

[Inarai]

No, the real question is 'why not'? With something so easy to provide, why would you not permit it?

 

The only answers are not good ones, and lead to limiting player latitude which reduces possible avenues for refreshing interest which ultimately affects playerbase retention.

 

There are a lot of valid design reasons against AC switching. I'm sorry if you can't understand those reasons as a player.

[VanorDM]

IMO that would definitely separate this game from the others on the market by giving players more options.

 

No it wouldn't.

 

Champions Online has the most options with completely freeform character building. No classes, no real requirements. You can take pretty much any power you want, any time you want.

 

AC respect would actually have the effect of taking away options, because everyone would be expected to switch into what ever the FotM class is. This would mean we'd effectively have 4 classes per side not 8.

 

It would also reduce the amount and length of subscriptions over all. The fact that people in MMO's make alts is a undisputed fact. The most successful ones, being the ones that do the least to discourage alts.

 

That was one of big problems with both CO and STO, there was next to no reason to make alts in those games.

 

Even RIFT seems to be suffering from it, because from what I've seen it looks like RIFTS is on a downward spiral of declining subs. A game that was hailed as having a very opened character system seems to be having issues now that most people have hit max level, and have no reason to make alts.

[aznthecapn]

As players it should be our goal to see this game live on for years and continue to grow and develop. People need to get past the entitlement view of "give me what I want now" and realize its not what is best for the longevity of this game. Options are NOT always better.

 

Its a commonly held belief that raising your child by structuring their choices and guiding them to make the right ones is vastly superior to allowing them to do whatever they want whenever they want. Offering vegetable A or fruit B is a better option than "pick something out of the kitchen for dinner". They'd invariably choose the candy every time. By limiting their choices you are teaching that child how to make the right decision when they get older. "Candy is not appropriate for dinner".

 

The same can be applied here. Sure, we can let players do whatever they want. PvP and buy PvE gear with the reward. Go RP with someone in a cantina for 6 hours a day for a month and get to level 50 with max PvP gear. Pick whatever class you want - it doesn't matter because you can change it whenever you like. Players will go on a frenzy of playing and no one will want to stop. Until there's nothing to do anymore. They've played all the classes. They have 8 sets of PvP, PvE and social gear. They are bored. They have one character. They quit the game.

 

By forcing you to make the choice of what class you want to play, Bioware has guided you towards certain options in the game. Yes, there is choice within that class as to what tree you want to play (the best decisions made for someone always look like they have options within that choice) but you're still committed on some level. In the end, if you want to change your choice, you'll need to work for it and develop another character. It increases replayability and extends the life of the game exponentially. Which should be important to all of us.

Edited February 10, 2012 by aznthecapn

[llouiss]

Its a good idea to add this feature if needed for a price or in game credits

 

its the same storyline so its not like you change because you want to play from a jedi to a smuggler

 

or you can change it 1 time only if you dont like the advanced class you have chosen

 

becaus right now if you choose its final and i can feel for the people that want to change it after a few levels

 

information is given when going to pick one but after a few levels you start to think how wi that other AC have felt

[aznthecapn]

its the same storyline so its not like you change because you want to play from a jedi to a smuggler

 

Except outside of the 20% of questing that is your class storyline, the story is the same for everyone. Does that make all classes the same since they share 80% of the story?

 

 

The only answers are not good ones,

 

Agree to disagree.

Edited February 10, 2012 by aznthecapn

[CainCypherus]

As players it should be our goal to see this game live on for years and continue to grow and develop. People need to get past the entitlement view of "give me what I want now" and realize its not what is best for the longevity of this game. Options are NOT always better.

 

Its a commonly held belief that raising your child by structuring their choices and guiding them to make the right ones is vastly superior to allowing them to do whatever they want whenever they want. Offering vegetable A or fruit B is a better option than "pick something out of the kitchen for dinner". They'd invariably choose the candy every time. By limiting their choices you are teaching that child how to make the right decision when they get older. "Candy is not appropriate for dinner".

 

The same can be applied here. Sure, we can let players do whatever they want. PvP and buy PvE gear with the reward. Go RP with someone in a cantina for 6 hours a day for a month and get to level 50 with max PvP gear. Pick whatever class you want - it doesn't matter because you can change it whenever you like. Players will go on a frenzy of playing and no one will want to stop. Until there's nothing to do anymore. They've played all the classes. They have 8 sets of PvP, PvE and social gear. They are bored. They have one character. They quit the game.

 

By forcing you to make the choice of what class you want to play, Bioware has guided you towards certain options in the game. Yes, there is choice within that class as to what tree you want to play (the best decisions made for someone always look like they have options within that choice) but you're still committed on some level. In the end, if you want to change your choice, you'll need to work for it and develop another character. It increases replayability and extends the life of the game exponentially. Which should be important to all of us.

 

Totally agree with this! Damn good arguments for why it shouldn't be in the game.

[VanorDM]

No, the real question is 'why not'?

 

Why not has been covered many, many times in this thread.

 

The main reasons, because it will hurt the player retention, and also because it will effectively remove options from the game.

 

AC respecs means less reason to play alts, that means shorter subs over all, not longer ones.

 

AC respects also means that everyone will be expected to play what ever the fotm class is.

[KorbinArmand]

As players it should be our goal to see this game live on for years and continue to grow and develop. People need to get past the entitlement view of "give me what i want now" and realize its not what is best for the longevity of this game. Options are not always better.

 

Its a commonly held belief that raising your child by structuring their choices and guiding them to make the right ones is vastly superior to allowing them to do whatever they want whenever they want. Offering vegetable a or fruit b is a better option than "pick something out of the kitchen for dinner". They'd invariably choose the candy every time. By limiting their choices you are teaching that child how to make the right decision when they get older. "candy is not appropriate for dinner".

 

The same can be applied here. Sure, we can let players do whatever they want. Pvp and buy pve gear with the reward. Go rp with someone in a cantina for 6 hours a day for a month and get to level 50 with max pvp gear. Pick whatever class you want - it doesn't matter because you can change it whenever you like. Players will go on a frenzy of playing and no one will want to stop. Until there's nothing to do anymore. They've played all the classes. They have 8 sets of pvp, pve and social gear. They are bored. They have one character. They quit the game.

 

By forcing you to make the choice of what class you want to play, bioware has guided you towards certain options in the game. Yes, there is choice within that class as to what tree you want to play (the best decisions made for someone always look like they have options within that choice) but you're still committed on some level. In the end, if you want to change your choice, you'll need to work for it and develop another character. It increases replayability and extends the life of the game exponentially. Which should be important to all of us.

 

qft!!!

Edited February 11, 2012 by KorbinArmand

[Innocentone]

Honestly, I would get bored having to make the same class again just to get a different ac. Same old storyline , companions , etc. When i had to start over from the scoundrel to gunslinger. It was boring . Space bar was getting hit a lot during the scenes. AC switching would be a good options at a high price if added. Or even taking a character back to level 10 would be a help to.

 

Some will argue that giving players the ability to ac change would ruin game play for others by being able to take there rolls in groups. Those claims are invalid . Each class can respec if needed to heal or dps or even tank. So if someone really wanted to take another spot. They would just have to get there talents respeced . Currently in the game you can do this . So adding ac change option wouldn't really hurt anything. But of course for every single post for ac change you have those out there that try to come up with a response as to why we dont need it . Which makes me wonder at times if some people have a life or not outside the game.

[aznthecapn]

Honestly, I would get bored having to make the same class again just to get a different ac. Same old storyline , companions , etc. When i had to start over from the scoundrel to gunslinger. It was boring . Space bar was getting hit a lot during the scenes. AC switching would be a good options at a high price if added. Or even taking a character back to level 10 would be a help to.

 

Some will argue that giving players the ability to ac change would ruin game play for others by being able to take there rolls in groups. Those claims are invalid . Each class can respec if needed to heal or dps or even tank. So if someone really wanted to take another spot. They would just have to get there talents respeced . Currently in the game you can do this . So adding ac change option wouldn't really hurt anything. But of course for every single post for ac change you have those out there that try to come up with a response as to why we dont need it . Which makes me wonder at times if some people have a life or not outside the game.

 

Barring your rude assumptions about people and their lives (like you're one to talk) there are plenty of reasons why it would hurt things. Its been covered. But you don't read, you just bump the thread with the same nonsense. If you want a more interesting play through with your new AC, do it on the other faction.

[Varteras]

According to the Q&A they just did they have no plans on allowing you to switch your advanced class. They feel they are fundamentally different classes. However for those of you who wanted dual spec, apparently it's coming soon.

[Innocentone]

Barring your rude assumptions about people and their lives (like you're one to talk) there are plenty of reasons why it would hurt things.

 

This coming from someone that has way more replies to this post then i do.

[Glowrod]

Bioware,

 

Please allow Advanced Class Respec. There's no reason for this, give players the choice! If you're worried it will hurt your story or something - don't. You don't seem to care you send Jedi to go slaughter hundreds of Sand People, so why care about something that is needlessly restricting players?

 

Thanks!

 

 

THINGS TO CONSIDER:

 

1. An Advanced Class is separate from a Class in SWTOR. Support: http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes

2. Players deserve freedom, especially when it doesn't effect you in any way.

3. Given the same choices, a player's story, companions and ship is exactly the same regardless of your AC.

4. Just because you enjoy making 16 alts doesn't mean the player next to you does.

5. There's many legitimate reasons why a player at any level might need to respec AC's. It does not mean they are lazy/stupid.

 

ALSO:

 

Links showing Bioware has supported this idea...

 

WATCH:

 

Thanks to Salzwasser for the link.

 

...and more recently, read: http://torwars.com/2011/12/01/stephen-reid-on-advanced-class-switching/

 

POLL HERE: http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=4f1285a6c2e1b0e46168c294

 

When you were presented with the choice of your AC, you were specifically told that once you make the choice, it is FINAL. I'm not sure what you failed to understand about that.

[aznthecapn]

This coming from someone that has way more replies to this post then i do.

 

Your point? Its something I feel strongly about, especially when people like yourself make baseless assumptions about how it will affect the game and community as well as spread misinformation about classes. I rarely post in other threads, I don't post during work or sleep hours and I often find the thread back on page six or seven, neglected.

 

I respond when there's something to respond to and your assumptions about my life outside of this game and these forums is immature and insulting. I'm sorry you feel the need to resort to those tactics to make your point since you can't do it any other way. It makes me feel encouraged about the future security of our classes.

[CainCypherus]

Taken from the Community Q&A

 

Will there be a possibility of changing advance classes as well?

 

Daniel Erickson: We have no plans for switching advanced classes

 

Are we done now?

[aznthecapn]

More complete reply (including DESIGNER justification):

 

Aurozia: Will there be a dual specialization system in the future? Will there be a possibility of changing advance classes as well?

 

Daniel Erickson: We have no plans for switching advanced classes - which we see as fundamentally different class designs- but dual spec is in the works and coming soon.

 

Now stop trying to tell people they are the same class and different specs. Bioware does not see it that way therefore you are certifiably wrong. Time for this thread to die.

[Glowrod]

I can understand what these people are trying to accomplish. They want to level a healer class in a DPS spec, then once they reach 50, they want to change back to a healer and act like they are now a healer.

 

But that's like saying you want a medical license without bothering to take any classes. I don't care how much you complain to the medical board, they are not going to give you a license to practice medicine until you have gone to school and passed the tests.

 

Just like here, even if they let you change to a healer when you reach 50 (which they won't), that doesn't mean that you can heal.

 

But on a more technical note, the equipment is different, the skill tree is different, there are differences in the quests for each AC...

[Ookami]

I can understand what these people are trying to accomplish. They want to level a healer class in a DPS spec, then once they reach 50, they want to change back to a healer and act like they are now a healer.

 

But that's like saying you want a medical license without bothering to take any classes. I don't care how much you complain to the medical board, they are not going to give you a license to practice medicine until you have gone to school and passed the tests.

 

Just like here, even if they let you change to a healer when you reach 50 (which they won't), that doesn't mean that you can heal.

 

But on a more technical note, the equipment is different, the skill tree is different, there are differences in the quests for each AC...

 

Ummmmm.... not sure what classes you are playing but all classes that I know of that are healers also have a DPS tree in them. Trooper Commando = Medic & Gunnery, Jedi Sage and Smuggler Scoundrel, though I don't know the trees for those. Therefore any one of those classes could indeed level to 50 as a DPS and then swap to Healing with a respec. Not trying to start anything, you chose a decent idea for your argument, I just wanted to point out the one flaw.

 

Also, could someone post the link for that Q&A, I'd like to read it in its entirety. Thanks.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Ookami

[Skann]

More complete reply (including DESIGNER justification):

Now stop trying to tell people they are the same class and different specs. Bioware does not see it that way therefore you are certifiably wrong. Time for this thread to die.

 

Which just comes to show how outdated Bioware vision of a MMO really is. Guild Wars 2 couldn't come any sooner to show this multi-billion dollar industry that you should embrace innovation, not be afraid of it.

 

So let SWTOR remain with it's 10 year old class system carbon copied from World of Warcraft.

[Varteras]

Which just comes to show how outdated Bioware vision of a MMO really is. Guild Wars 2 couldn't come any sooner to show this multi-billion dollar industry that you should embrace innovation, not be afraid of it.

 

So let SWTOR remain with it's 10 year old class system carbon copied from World of Warcraft.

 

Sorry. You lost the battle. Please move along and complain about something else. Maybe you'll have more luck trying to change the next feature of the game.

[Lerthan]

Which just comes to show how outdated Bioware vision of a MMO really is. Guild Wars 2 couldn't come any sooner to show this multi-billion dollar industry that you should embrace innovation, not be afraid of it.

 

So let SWTOR remain with it's 10 year old class system carbon copied from World of Warcraft.

 

Its not a carbon copy of Wow, it has been what MMO's have been like from the get go. You choose a class your stuck with that class or you make another toon.

 

GW2 is not going to change that for you. There you make a toon if you don't like it guess what your not going to be able to change it without making another toon.

[imjudas]

AC respec would be a terrible idea.

[Primalis]

Lock this thread already! lol

[Innocentone]

I decided to be patience and wait . Eventually the devs will have to add this feature . Just like with how the wow devs learned the hard way with cata catering to the small minority that wanted things there way. I didn't ever really consider watching it , but I might be interested to watch the quarterly earning report for swtor when it hits. My guess would be that the devs would have to go back and review past choices to ensure a viable future for profits. I plan on looking to buy a share or two in order to receive the email provided to shareholders that has the inside information.

[Varteras]

I decided to be patience and wait . Eventually the devs will have to add this feature . Just like with how the wow devs learned the hard way with cata catering to the small minority that wanted things there way. I didn't ever really consider watching it , but I might be interested to watch the quarterly earning report for swtor when it hits. My guess would be that the devs would have to go back and review past choices to ensure a viable future for profits. I plan on looking to buy a share or two in order to receive the email provided to shareholders that has the inside information.

 

Talk about grasping at straws. Ya know for as long as you would have to wait for such a day you might as well level the other advanced class instead of waiting for something that will probably never happen. Heck with the amount of time you've spent fighting this you could have leveled the other advanced class up to level 20 or 25 easy.