Kmxs Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) This is by no means a definitive guide but there is a lack for good PVP information here so I figured I'd take some time to give my perspective and why I ended up with a very unique, powerful and versatile spec. There are constant posts with slingers trying to defend why sab and dt are good specs with 31 points in them. I don't want to debate why I think this is a poor decision but I'll point out a couple of problems I found between the 2 specs and why I dislike them. Sab: Just flat out bad, it's an awkward style that lends itself to aoe damage but has little stopping power. You're going to find when you're in 1 v 1 with Sab you're going to lose a lot of the time. You'll have a lot of energy and very little to do with it. The biggest problem with sab is that it can't decide whether it wants to be in cover or not, and you're going to find you need to be in cover to take advantage of it. DT: This spec actually has decent stopping power but falls short in a few areas. The first is that it requires a setup, and if you're facing a burst dps class you're going to lose before you can accomplish this. The second is that the damage is slower so against healers you're going to be extremely frustrated. Another problem I have with this spec is that it promises mobility but really the main abilities are on CD's and there is no "staple" rinse and repeat damage ability like Charged Burst in MM. You're going to find you spend your load on 1 guy and try to target another guy and in order to do anything you have to cover and use a weakened version of what you'd be doing in MM while waiting for your CD's. You are also going to be extremely energy starved. MM: The spec I chose is MM:25 Sab: 16. I also believe this is going to become one of the defacto standards for PVP until there are changes to the Gunslinger class, which I hope is in only in the form of bug fixes. Spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700bsrbdRsRZbI0roR.1 There are some things in here that can be shuffled around due to preference. But the main points of it are that you're going to lose Deadeye and Rapid Fire. Rapid Fire is just going to pin you down with channeled abilities, this is never good in PVP and you'll find that you naturally don't use it whether you think it's a good idea or not. Deadeye is the one people will question but really the only benefit you're going to see from it is on quickraw and trickshot. The gains you get from having an extremely powerful, cheap sab charge that gives energy back is going to outweight it. Shock charge slow is a very long duration slow that isn't going to be broken by damage. Another point of this is that with good gear your Sab Charge is going to pop for 3k, so you can apply it after a leg shot or flash grenade and it won't break the CC so you still have time to do you aimed shot + trick shot combo. Sab, aim, and trick detonating at the same time is devastating burst that can hit well over 10k damage all at the same time. The biggest complaint of MM is that you have to cover, and people don't like the mechanic. I understand this but really with Hunker down and the defence bonus you will be getting it is a big advantage you just need to learn how to use Hunker effectively and get used to it. You have the mobility here of your 2 dots + instant charged shot on cover, as well as being able to throw a very damaging sab charge on cover. Anyhow, I do very well in this spec and I usually get top 2 kills/damage in every bg. The biggest factor is this free's you up a bit mobility wise and gives you enough energy that you won't be running out. Another way to go here is to take dealer's discount over sapping to sacrifice the slow for more energy. I don't find this necessary a lot of the time but it's fun to play either spec. Good luck slingers and keep practicing, this is a very hard class to play effectively but it can be done and it is extremely powerful if used right. I know there are some bugs and I suffer them as well, like no cover on a snare and so forth but I imagine those types of things will be fixed. While were waiting you can achieve a lot of success with this build. Oponn Shadowtown - Republic Edited January 14, 2012 by Kmxs Error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthNerf Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) There are constant posts with slingers trying to defend why sab and dt are good specs with 31 points in them. I don't want to debate why I think this is a poor decision but I'll point out a couple of problems I found between the 2 specs and why I dislike them. So basically you're saying "My opinions are better and this is not a discussion." Lots of people are having success with those two specs, and it's experience that counts. I've considered a spec like that, but move some points around to take arsonist and whatnot. Edited January 14, 2012 by StealthNerf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobofish Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Quick Shot is used by DF gunslingers when they need instant damage and can't afford to go into cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dftowl Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Your spec looks gimped to me, but I'm not one to tell people how to play so if it works for you...gravy. Seems like you are focusing on mainly single target damage while sacrificing control, and AoE ability. Things like Shrap Bomb with the AoE slowing effect, or Incendiary Grenade's ability to prevent caps/flush enemies are much more valuable in PvP than anything you have in your spec. Also, you claim this spec is somehow better than DF or Sab 1v1. I would like to hear how a spec with very limited mobility would be effective against say...a Sith Marauder or Sith Assassin? Spoiler: It wouldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmxs Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Well, you certainly don't have to agree I'm simply putting some info here as someone who's tried all 3 specs and came to the conclusion that it's better to hybridize Sharpshooter rather than use the others when it comes to achieving our role as a pure DPS class. If you think it's "gimped" and don't see the potential, and strengths over a typical 31 point SS spec then I'm sorry for you, but this is also the reason I don't want to debate it. Rather I would share my experience, and if anyone finds it helpful then great. If you disagree I would ask you try the spec first and see how nice the added slow, sab charge and energy regen are in an SS build. Cheers. Oponn Shadowtown - Republic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doxik Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Interesting looking spec. Will give it a shot tomorrow. Im all for single target dps, and your spec looks very viable at bursting someone down. Will update after i tried it. Here are my changes to it tho. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700bsrrbRoRZbI0roRZb.1 Edited January 15, 2012 by Doxik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmxs Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Interesting looking spec. Will give it a shot tomorrow. Im all for single target dps, and your spec looks very viable at bursting someone down. Will update after i tried it. Here are my changes to it tho. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700bsrrbRoRZbI0roRZb.1 I like the changes let me know how that works out. I wasn't sure how the aim shot alacrity stacking bonus would work with what I do but I haven't changed it yet. Seemed like I might be wasting points in it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dftowl Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Well, you certainly don't have to agree I'm simply putting some info here as someone who's tried all 3 specs and came to the conclusion that it's better to hybridize Sharpshooter rather than use the others when it comes to achieving our role as a pure DPS class. If you think it's "gimped" and don't see the potential, and strengths over a typical 31 point SS spec then I'm sorry for you, but this is also the reason I don't want to debate it. Rather I would share my experience, and if anyone finds it helpful then great. If you disagree I would ask you try the spec first and see how nice the added slow, sab charge and energy regen are in an SS build. Cheers. Oponn Shadowtown - Republic I agree completely that its better than a 31 point SS spec. Then again running around spamming Thermal Grenade/Quick Shot is probably better as well. But you didn't say it was better than just SS spec, you said ALL specs. As a hardcore Dirty Fighter, I expect ( and I'm sure hardcore Sabs do as well since you outright called their spec useless) that if you claim this spec is somehow better, you provide some proof other than "it just is". The only useful thing I see in your spec is Shock Charge with 30% slow added. That is a great ability and talent. However, why not spec full Saboteur and gain the additional bonuses of Sabotage/Arsonist/Blazing Speed/Inc Grenade ect? I'm not looking to tear you down, but saying everyone that plays other specs have been doing it wrong, yours is the best way, and provide very little evidence to back it up is a bit asinine. Especially if you think people are not going to call you on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doxik Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I like the changes let me know how that works out. I wasn't sure how the aim shot alacrity stacking bonus would work with what I do but I haven't changed it yet. Seemed like I might be wasting points in it though. With almost full Gunslinger Champion gear, i have a total of 40 something alacrity =] Adding % to that won't really help imho. So i respeced this morning and played for 4 hours, did multiple warzones and i like the spec alot Great utility and burst dmg. Sorcs were melting right in front of my eyes =] Im keeping it and gz Kmxs on finding such a good spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthNerf Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) I was basically having a go at your post for saying "I don't want a debate but I'm going to debate anyway and tell everyone why they're wrong." If you want to say that, then debate. But this is what I've considered: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700dsrbdRooMZrI0boRb.1 I think it has potential, but I'm comparing it against my full sab and DF specs as well. A lot of the points you raise against them can be answered. Like how you say sab has too much energy. Well then don't spec so much energy regen silly. In my latest sab spec I don't take Bravado, dealer's discount or sieze the moment. Edited January 15, 2012 by StealthNerf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoganOleary Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 You people are killin me! I recently respec'd to Stealthnerfs Sab spec I found on the forums as I really liked blowing people up...and AoE is great for mobs in PvE. However I am also a guy that loves mixing it up in PvP, my 1st MMO was Warhammer which is entirely PvP focused. Now I see this spec, I want to try it too. I'm only lvl 31 atm however so many abilities I don't have yet, whats a Slinger to do? I like AoE but in PvP I'm not sure if more single target is the way to go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmxs Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 I agree completely that its better than a 31 point SS spec. Then again running around spamming Thermal Grenade/Quick Shot is probably better as well. But you didn't say it was better than just SS spec, you said ALL specs. As a hardcore Dirty Fighter, I expect ( and I'm sure hardcore Sabs do as well since you outright called their spec useless) that if you claim this spec is somehow better, you provide some proof other than "it just is". The only useful thing I see in your spec is Shock Charge with 30% slow added. That is a great ability and talent. However, why not spec full Saboteur and gain the additional bonuses of Sabotage/Arsonist/Blazing Speed/Inc Grenade ect? I'm not looking to tear you down, but saying everyone that plays other specs have been doing it wrong, yours is the best way, and provide very little evidence to back it up is a bit asinine. Especially if you think people are not going to call you on it. You're twisting my words into the most negative meaning possible. If I didn't think what I am using is the best, I would use something else. I think this is the best all around spec, not the best spec in every single situation. There will be times when you may need to spec specifically to support your PVP group. Or maybe you just really want to win hutball so you pick what you think is the best hutball spec. This isn't trying to do that, it's trying to be the best "Defacto Standard" or all around spec that generates a high level of success in any given circumstance. If you can provide something better, I will use it. For me the purpose of this thread is to share my success, and get some input from others on how I might improve this spec. If you don't like it, don't use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmxs Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 You people are killin me! I recently respec'd to Stealthnerfs Sab spec I found on the forums as I really liked blowing people up...and AoE is great for mobs in PvE. However I am also a guy that loves mixing it up in PvP, my 1st MMO was Warhammer which is entirely PvP focused. Now I see this spec, I want to try it too. I'm only lvl 31 atm however so many abilities I don't have yet, whats a Slinger to do? I like AoE but in PvP I'm not sure if more single target is the way to go? You actually still have really powerful AOE in this spec with with your XS flyby and thermal grenade getting some benefits from the SAB tree. Basically what I do is plant the XS, throw a flash grenade to hold them still, then I throw a thermal grenade. If you're playing with regular team mates have them drop their aoe's as soon as they see your freighter lasers. I will say however that this is not an optimal PVE spec at all. The loss of the 6 talents at the top of the SS tree makes this a PVP burst spec. That being said you're going to love it in PVP. activate lucky, drop, instant cast Sab Charge, instant Charged shot, 1.5 or less cast aimed shot into trick shot. This produces damage over 10k in a very short period of time. If you have your teir2 gear you can expect 15k damage on this burst. If you are struggling with a healer you can start this with a flash grenade or dirty kick, sab charge won't break CC, aimed shot, instant charged shot, trick shot and the damage will happen all at once, then you use your charged burst instant. Someone had mentioned dropping accuracy but I still find it usefull as after it exceeds 100% it reduces your targets chance to evade. I'm not sure if this suffers diminished returns, if it doesn't the extra accuracy is great. This is still up for the jury though and I'd love to hear some more feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doxik Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Here is a screen with dmg done after 3 WZs with his spec. http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1617/swtor2012011510423568.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemmer Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Argh! Just when I thought I had settled on my choice for Scoundrel, you all have me thinking of playing my Gunslinger again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmxs Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Here is a screen with dmg done after 3 WZs with his spec. http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1617/swtor2012011510423568.jpg Sexy =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthNerf Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Hmmm deleted this post. Changed my spec again. Edited January 16, 2012 by StealthNerf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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