mechintel Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Just because a class needs a buff in certain areas doesn't mean they don't need a nerf in ther areas. I don't think anyone will complain if they slightly buff operatives out of stealth damage in order to reduce the grossly overpowered stealth damage. The class needs to be rebalanced, more than it needs to be flat out nerfed. For the record I have 573 expertise, and ops still open up with a 4k crit. Let's not forget that if an operative has just as much expertise as I do we both may as well as have zero as they directly cancel each other out. Edited January 13, 2012 by mechintel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drengir Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Dont worry. Your not the only one. They are getting a nerf when class balances come. I would really not be so sure about it mate. As a decent geared 50 with semi-good PvP skills you can pretty much beat them, even if they get their opener on you. It's all hands down to knowing what to do and when to do it, for instance: You do not want to let them run their full opener combo at you, then you are so damaged that you're behind the rest of the fight. I'd wager that Scoundrel/Operative works just as they want it. Might it need tweaking? Perhaps, but all classes do (like the guardian/juggernaut tree's that can aoe for 5-8k..). Basically a OP/SC that doesn't get his opener is dead. Taking away the opener for stealth would be like taking away mobility for the knight/warrior classes etc. All classes have their core mechanism they need/work around. If you are a lower level, or just a horrible player, then you will get owned by a SC/OP yes, but that goes for any other class too. P.S. No I am not a SC/OP myself, but a combat medic trooper, and I survive just fine against most of them. D.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechintel Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 People saying "Oh save your CC-breaker for that class"... If I have to save my CC-breaker for one specific stun... a stun that it inherently more important than all other stuns... that is the sheer definition of a move being OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumwun Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Keep telling yourself that. They are not, any changes will be bugs and minor issues not working as intended. When duelling any class against any class and NOT using consumables, both level 50 and similar gear, the game is so damn balanced that there is not a single class that stands out at all. What an operative has going for him is selecting his fights. That said you must have some poor gear, be low level or really play blind folded. Yes Ops do kill me, but it's not the class I get killed by the most. Yes sometimes I am at half health and an operative kills me where I am defenceless... so what. I could do the same on my bounty hunter - the only difference would be the fact that I don't surprise him from stealth. End result is the same though. People who claim to be continously owned by operatives of same level and gear while they have full health, simply need to learn how to play the game. I know I'm not magic, I wish I were, but I'm just an average guy not blowing a few deaths out of proportions. I have no issues with ops/scoundrels or any other class for that matter. Some players do give me trouble sometimes, but then they may have a better gear and level advantage when I am or my alt or SHOCK, they could be better players than me. I don't suck, but I have met a few snipers I really respect, mainly because I've found the class easy to beat and then I meet a sniper who teach me a lesson... good stuff. Simply put... stop being babies. QFT It's not the Operative or the Scoundrel thats out of wack, it's Expertise. Once you have a few pieces of gear it wont be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drengir Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I love how people complain about stealth classes being OP, yet no one seems to have stealth detection slotted on their PvP toons. That might be the issue more than anything else, since those two points in your stealth detection has the potential to negate everything an operative can do to you. Can you say the same for your class? This ^^ The stealth detection in this game is actually really harsh (on stealthers that is) compared to other MMO's. as a 40+ I even detect most 50 stealthers before they get a shot at me (unless they use "improve stealth for 8 sec", or come up from behind fast). And with a detect stealth aoe ability (for trooper, as I play that) with short CD and instant cast, it's not that hard to pick out the poor stealthers. L2P your class, get to 50, get some good gear and Then come complain about people beeing OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torothin Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) ^ this times over 9000 Love how people go running around claiming to have been stunlocked from an operative, eating up 6k dmg (every SINGLE SKILL HITS THAT MUCH !!!!!) and other bs... Once an ops has used his opener you have a FULL resolve bar...if you don't know what I'm talking about go read up on it and stop posting on these forums until you're informed...and if you know you should also understand that after our opener you can do anything you want since you will NOT and I repeat NOT be cc'ed anymore...and it will last long enough to either kill us, heal yourself, run away, /dance or whatever your fancy... so stop it with the falsims and yes I will say it: L2P ! So basically I need to find an operative to duel and say "Hey you cloak and I will run around expecting it and then uncloak and do the DPS and let's see if I survive." Not very realistic here.... Edited January 13, 2012 by Torothin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drengir Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 So basically I need to find an operative to duel and say "Hey you clock and I will run around expecting it and then uncloak and do the DPS and let's see if I survive." Not very realistic here.... Practise makes perfect mate, it may sound silly to duel but it is one of the best ways to get to know your/other classes and how to counter them. Just ask him to attack you as he would an enemy, and then figure out how to counter it. If you even fail at this then I highly suggest you go PvE instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evinac Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Seeing as our opener completely fills the Resolve bar so that other CCs will not work, this is NOT happening. Scrappers and Concealment Ops can vanish, IF you don't DoT them, and damage you, but they cannot restun you or CC you, IT IS NOT HAPPENING. In your pea brain that will find any excuse to compensate for the fact that you just didn't play it right, it may be, "I was stun locked for 30 seconds but the Operative only needed 1 because he 1 shot me OMG ***, Nerf." Here's a tip: GO DUEL SOME OPERATIVES AT 50 AND LEARN HOW TO BEAT THEM. What, do you think i'm making up not being able to move while having Force Speed on? If it works out for you that resolve system has hickups rather often, how can i play it anymore "right"? I've dotted op's and shadows/assassins just to never see them again - I was told that OP's can actually cure dots with insta cast - awfully convenient if true. I play a hybrid sorc, mising gloves and boots from champ set and have a high 40's purple helm. Squishy as hell even with Static Barrier and 9% dmg reduction from expertise. Had an OP's wipe the floor with me the other night - saw him later on Ilum and he had 2 more champ pieces than me. He literally crtted me with taht stealth opener twice for 9.9k. Each time i used my CC break just to die seconds later either from vanish and same stealth opener or just other attacks that do 2-3k dmg np. Also, i'm pretty sure snares ignore resolve bar it does at times when I use it and when i'm on the receiving end. So when an OP's can snare u with ur CC break down, it's game over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torothin Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 I would be better off just doing this in WZ. The duel thing is flawed because I will be expecting it. While I do admit that if I was an operative I would be laughing and doing this stealthy dagger stuff 24-7 and laughing hysterically. I can see why people are mad. I'm not really sure what I expect but that burst damage is very significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisJSY Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) The best way to beat them 1v1 is to put your back against a wall. The majority of their damage is from Backstab. Have you actually tested it? The arc is very, very small, you can always backstab someone with their back up against a wall. They might as well call it side stab. Edited January 13, 2012 by ChrisJSY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drengir Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I would be better off just doing this in WZ. The duel thing is flawed because I will be expecting it. While I do admit that if I was an operative I would be laughing and doing this stealthy dagger stuff 24-7 and laughing hysterically. I can see why people are mad. I'm not really sure what I expect but that burst damage is very significant. What is wrong with you being prepared for it? You mean you run around in a warzone NOT expecting to get jumped? Same, same! the duel just gives you a controlled enviroment with a enemy that you can consult/talk with for advice etc. But suit yourself. Wanna live in ignorance, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyInternets Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 When duelling any class against any class and NOT using consumables, both level 50 and similar gear, the game is so damn balanced that there is not a single class that stands out at all. lol keeping telling yourself that. Just like in every MMO in history, kids playing the OP class will desperately try to come up with whatever ******** they can to prevent change. Acknowledge that the class is wildly unbalanced at the moment. Embrace reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zherill Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) ZOMG Ops are so OP they got stealth and can burst me! ZOMG Snipers are so OP they can become immune to CC and burst me! ZOMG Sorcs are so OP they got loads of CC and lightning from their hands! ZOMG BH are so OP they can spam missles and autoface! ZOMG Tanks are so OP they can guard people and taunt making me do no damage! ZOMG Healers are so OP they can heal more than I can damage them! ZOMG Sents are so UP give them a hug, except that one guy who posted 6.5k AoE crits... ZZZzzZzZzzZz If we actually listened to 90% of the idiots that posted these QQ threads EVERYCLASS would have been nerfed already..... a month from launch. I play a scoundrel, I do a LOT of damage from stealth. Have I insta gibbed lower geared folks? Yep, I sure have. Have I ever instantly killed anyone that has the same gear as me from my opening burst? Nope. Have I ever survived a OPS opening brust who was equally geared as a squishy? Yep, but it wasn't until I learned to use temp buffs properly. Have I ever done my complete opening burst on someone and not scratched them? Yep, that happens too. 90% of the stupid threads are made because BW is mixxing GEARED 50's with lowbies leveling and BW is changing that soon. Do tweaks need to be made in multiple different areas? Probably, but not from threads that are probably based off some lowbie that ran into a stemmed up premade in BM gear. Edited January 13, 2012 by Zherill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Localhost Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Keep telling yourself that. They are not, any changes will be bugs and minor issues not working as intended. When duelling any class against any class and NOT using consumables, both level 50 and similar gear, the game is so damn balanced that there is not a single class that stands out at all. What an operative has going for him is selecting his fights. That said you must have some poor gear, be low level or really play blind folded. Yes Ops do kill me, but it's not the class I get killed by the most. Yes sometimes I am at half health and an operative kills me where I am defenceless... so what. I could do the same on my bounty hunter - the only difference would be the fact that I don't surprise him from stealth. End result is the same though. People who claim to be continously owned by operatives of same level and gear while they have full health, simply need to learn how to play the game. I know I'm not magic, I wish I were, but I'm just an average guy not blowing a few deaths out of proportions. I have no issues with ops/scoundrels or any other class for that matter. Some players do give me trouble sometimes, but then they may have a better gear and level advantage when I am or my alt or SHOCK, they could be better players than me. I don't suck, but I have met a few snipers I really respect, mainly because I've found the class easy to beat and then I meet a sniper who teach me a lesson... good stuff. Simply put... stop being babies. Oh I will keep telling myself that, and I'll be sure to PM you and ask you if your mad when it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechintel Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 If we actually listened to 90% of the idiots that posted these QQ threads EVERYCLASS would have been nerfed already..... a month from launch. Maybe they should just listen to the 90% of threads that all agree that OPs are the problem. There are certainly other game balances that need to be addressed, but none so wildly obvious as an operatives burst. Then again I suppose Paladins weren't OP in the beginning of wrath, amirite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechintel Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Has anyone ever been attacked by two operatives working together. You die before you can even press your CC-breaker button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuthirFontaine Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Im a gunslinger only prob i have with op is when they knock me down it takes a year and half to get back into cover... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuthirFontaine Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Has anyone ever been attacked by two operatives working together. You die before you can even press your CC-breaker button. yeah its not pretty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torothin Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 That was why I made this thread. I came across a team of 4 50 Operatives almost made em throw the computer out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drengir Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Has anyone ever been attacked by two operatives working together. You die before you can even press your CC-breaker button. That goes for any of the stealth classes. And being focused by two of anything is gonna hurt Fast unless you have a pocket-medic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torothin Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Ok here is the beef. In terms of game mechanics you would expect a healer and 3 DPS boats to be the W T F pwn team. but fi you have a team of 4 operatives every time they are out that is 4 people that are instantly going to die until the next cool down. In the grand scheme of things this hurts team work in PvP, allows operative teams to win more games, and makes them have an unfair advantage due to being able to take 4 people out of the game instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drengir Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 That was why I made this thread. I came across a team of 4 50 Operatives almost made em throw the computer out the window. So just because of those 4 players who by chance or design could troll you, you think the whole class should be nerfed into oblivion? Great! You just made me ignore your arguments Any class of four players playing togheter will tear through anything but 4 others doing the exact same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torothin Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 No not true. See the above argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechintel Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The thing to observe is that imbalances of operatives compounds on itself the more of them you have on your team. Two marauders are not going to kill somebody in 2 gcds. I don't care how geared they are. That is not going to happen. The same cannot be said about two operatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaodon Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The CC break argument is getting old. OPps don't have another cc? Or they can't recloak and use the exact same opener practically right away? I've hit cc break right after the first hit multiple times, used force speed to try and gain range and two things happen - i'm CC'ed right away This is a lie. The first attack gives you a FULL RESOLVE BAR, making you 100% immune to any further CC from anyone. Why do you "learn2play" types always commit this lie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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