Rayla_Felana Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Everything Rhyltran has stated is fact, backed up by C-canon workings and Leland Chee himself, you are arguing against canonical fact and have devolved your argument into 'There is no evidence...', which right there shows you have no argument against what is already fact, Darth Sidious was much more powerful than Grand Master Yoda, Yoda's and indeed the galaxy's only hope was to stop fighting the Sith in a war he had already won, the Jedi were simply stuck in the days of the New Sith Wars and the entire order payed for it with all but extinction, they got out-smarted and only Luke Skywalker and the Prophecy could ever defeat Sidious, as was the way it was meant to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 When I use the word power. I mean power. Sidious is more powerful than Yoda. Being able to survive after death. Destroy entire starfleets (Luke says it'd be able to destroy a planet) with a wormhole. Teleport Luke from one planet straight to his side mind wipe billions of people at once. Control the minds of billions. Able to siphon the life out of billion to empower himself.. these are some of the over the top things Sidious reborn could do and that's not even half of it. Does it sound retardedly ridiculous? Yes. It does because it is. If Yoda had that kind of power it'd detract from the movies I'd think and look more like something on DBZ. Even worse.. Dark Empire was Lucas' idea. Yup, This is Star Wars, It is inherently ridiculous, it always has been and it always will be, but thats kinda the point of it without going into the philosophical context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Yup, This is Star Wars, It is inherently ridiculous, it always has been and it always will be, but thats kinda the point of it without going into the philosophical context. Indeed. I still think they got a bit carried away with Sidious' powers but I also understand that they wanted Lucas' creation to be the ultimate "big bad." in the series. Still, I'd rather read about incredibly powerful characters than actually see them on screen. What I mean is.. it wouldn't fit in the rest of the context of the films. Edited January 13, 2012 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Indeed. I still think they got a bit carried away with Sidious' powers but I also understand that they wanted Lucas' creation to be the ultimate "big bad." in the series. Still, I'd rather read about incredibly powerful characters than actually see them on screen. What I mean is.. it wouldn't fit in the rest of the context of the films. The thing was with Sidious and the Dark Empire series is it seemed like....much of the older workings, fan-fiction, and to be honest not very well written fan-fiction, like two kids debating who would win, Batman vs Superman or Picard vs Kirk. In the case of Star Wars: Luke Skywalker or Emperor Palpatine, so they went and got rights, wrote the most ridiculous over-powered **** they could think of, until someone decided Luke got so powerful it wasn't possible for Sidious to get even MORE ridiculous than Skywalker was, and hence, here we are, with a completely irrelevant canon because we already have our Supermans and Batmans. Edited January 13, 2012 by Rayla_Felana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gestahlt Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Canon wise it's: Movies > EU (wich includes books) All of your argument is based on EU, wich is debatable if it's really the same thing we actually see at the movies. I can agree with the Force not letting Yoda win, destiny and stuff. But Yoda lacking the power to defeat Palpatine? Come on. Wrong. Novelizations of the movies are G-canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthGlitch Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) On the one hand, we have people displaying facts from officially canonized works.. and on the other hand we have somebody saying "they don't matter, my impression from the movie was different." Fact is. Movies are 100% canon, instantly. Yes, you can take different things from the subtleties of acting - but once a body of work from the EU is officially canonized, your impressions are secondary. The book is right, you're wrong. Palpatine was more powerful. I don't like it either, but it's fact. It's canon. The book says that, in the battle, when Palpatine began to stop underestimating Yoda, he dropped his hold on the power that had been clouding the entire Jedi Order (including Yoda) ..the veil they couldn't see through.. and Yoda saw the "truth" ..that he could not kill Palpatine, that even if he killed this body, he'd rise again. There's clear yet subtle reference to Palpatine's ability to reanimate in another body.. Yoda saw the truth and knew if he were to do any good, it would have to be another way. Yoda, being the pinacle of Jedi strength and understanding of the Force ..would not continue an unnecesary and effectively pointless fight, even if he could eventually physically win it. He knew all he had would not be enough to permanently end the threat, so he fought to survive and fled when he got the chance in the hopes of contributing to a better end in the future. Was Palpatine a stronger fighter? That's not the point. It's not really covered.. what is, is that Palpatine had more POWER ..in the ability to reanimate with a new body and to twist the minds of the masses.. Palpatine could not be beaten by Yoda. Period. Edited January 13, 2012 by DarthGlitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malactie Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 all well presented. But it seems like yoda was a Jedi to the end. After his insight he saw 3 possibilitys Fight and... path 1: Winning the fight, even if darth sidious is stronger in the force he is not immune from making a mistake or getting his head chopped of by a lightsaber. path 2: fighting and looseing, darth sidious is strong and might easily get the best of him. or dont fight...... path 3: Be able to escape in the hopes of finding or training someone powerful enough in the force to win. To fight meant the risk of looseing, it was an all or nothing bet if he wins its over but if he looses there is no hope for the future of the jedi. On the otherside if he backs off he may have mutiple chances to strike back through him or someone else at a lower risk then all or in. Jedi are trained to think objectivly, to look at all options and choose the wisest path. Fighting would be a passionate act that was higher risk then other options. Yoda being the Grand Master Jedi, could easily see the correct option and had enough passivness in him not to fall into the passions of battle. He backed off because it was the most logical choice. Fighting was not gaunteed failure, i can be stronger then most of the world but im pretty sure a well placed 45's still gonna take me out without a problem. But it certainly wasent gaurnted victory. who would have won is impossible to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozirizo Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Palpatine was more powerful. I don't like it either, but it's fact. It's canon. The book says that, in the battle, when Palpatine began to stop underestimating Yoda, he dropped his hold on the power that had been clouding the entire Jedi Order (including Yoda) ..the veil they couldn't see through.. and Yoda saw the "truth" ..that he could not kill Palpatine, that even if he killed this body, he'd rise again. There's clear yet subtle reference to Palpatine's ability to reanimate in another body.. Yoda saw the truth and knew if he were to do any good, it would have to be another way. Yoda, being the pinacle of Jedi strength and understanding of the Force ..would not continue an unnecesary and effectively pointless fight, even if he could eventually physically win it. He knew all he had would not be enough to permanently end the threat, so he fought to survive and fled when he got the chance in the hopes of contributing to a better end in the future. Was Palpatine a stronger fighter? That's not the point. It's not really covered.. what is, is that Palpatine had more POWER ..in the ability to reanimate with a new body and to twist the minds of the masses.. Palpatine could not be beaten by Yoda. Period. I bow to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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