In case you missed it: Combat logs are coming, but only for yourself

[Chosenxeno]

Eyup, Addons were well known amongst the Players in WoW Classic.

Decursive for example, though it got blocked by Blizz. But DPS Meters, Threat Meters etc was all available and often used in WoW Classic

 

Hehe I remember that Decursive. It needed to be broken. Yea there were addons. But I hope you can see where I was going with this.

 

Edited: To Vomit because I remembered CT Raid lol and Damage Meters(Terrible Terrible Terrible Parser Addon)

Edited January 13, 2012 by Chosenxeno

[guided_by_voices]

Since the invention of the Number. Somehow everyone is dumb in WOW because they playing the most popular and most successful game by EQers logic. If EQ was a higher Quality game than those who left EQ to visit Azeroth would not have stayed. End of Story.

 

Let's not forget that WOW was in it's most hardcore state. It was being played in a state EQers find acceptable: No Addons, No Macros, No LFD, No Flying Mounts, No DBM, and Raiding was a Huge Time-sink(most of the top guilds raided 6-7 days for progression instead of for having fun in an alt raid on the weekends like they do today)

 

Let us also remember that WOW grew once they Dropped the "Time-Sinkers Only" Raid format and added the things I listed above.

 

EQ was not perfect, never said it was. it required alot of time to play. when SOE took over it went downhill fast. My guild left for wow because eq2 was run by SOE and we were still bitter over what they did to EQ. many left MMO's and most left wow. I and others stayed because we went from jobs to careers, single to married with kids. did not have the time needed to play EQ. plus trent reznor said it best "nothing quite like the feel of something new" the one thing wow did that was appealing at least at first was take the exp grind away.

 

we were fooled we traded exp grinding with groups to quest grinding solo. we leveled faster and it felt like something was being accomplished. raiding was fun at first but quickly faded, felt more like you were just going through the motions and finally now we just sit there waiting for the flashing screen to tell us what button to push next.

 

i and others were hoping that wouldn't be the case here. a month in and we are arguing over addons.

[ironix]

Most people in this thread are *********** clueless so let me fill you in.

 

Let's take the current ONLY impossible fight in the game: Soa, the Infernal One, on nightmare mode. This thread details why is it impossible: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=147413

 

Note where you have to meet utterly IMPOSSIBLE DPS requirements over a set period of time to even come close to killing the boss. This is why universal combat logs are necessary. If I'm playing and achieving 2.2k DPS over 20 seconds (it's actually impossible at the moment, but I digress) and everyone else it apart from 1 person who is doing 1.1k DPS I have a bloody right to know who that complete *********** moron is so I can either tell him to DPS properly, or get the **** out of my progression - aiming for World Firsts - guild.

 

Let's take a completely doable fight, Commander Jorland in Boarding Party:

The engineer has no aggro table and 90,000 hp~

The medic has an aggro table and 90,000 hp~

Commander Jorland has 120,000 hp~

 

The enrage is 150 seconds:

400,000 / 2666.66

2666.66 / 3 (2 dps + 1 tank) = 888.88

 

Now this is a tightly tuned enrage, which also requires interrupts on the Medic (else he gets healed) and exceptional healing. If you wipe to the enrage there are multiple reasons why:

1) Interrupts on medic weren't occuring, meaning he was taking longer to kill

2) DPS wasn't high enough

3) Healing didn't allow DPS to properly rotate their max DPS rotation

4) People weren't focusing properly

5) Someone died - out of their own stupidity/healing issue

 

That's 5 reasons why a boss didn't die due to a strict enrage. A global combat log, thus something designed like Skada (Skada) would help identify the reason. Skada has these different modes:

- Damage done,

- DPS, Threat,

- Enemy damage done,

- Enemy damage taken,

- Healing, Overhealing,

- Total healing,

- Absorbs estimated,

- Damage taken, Dispels,

- Mana regen,

- Debuff uptimes,

- Activity

 

There is only 1 reason why people wouldn't want something like Skada in this game: they don't want their DPS to be recognised. If someone said to me "your DPS will be too low" I'd say to them, as a good player, "take me and let me wipe the floor with you." I know I'm good, I know a combat log would show I'm good, thus I'm not afraid of a combat log being added into the game.

 

This needs to be quoted ad infinitum.

[Reecelol]

you have to wonder why people here protest at the idea of their performance being monitored. if you are doing well, you have nothing to hide.

 

because somehow addons and being able to tell where your groups failing/succeeding ruins the community or something. also being able to review this information makes the game easier in some way.

 

so far thats about all ive been able to take from about 95% of the post on this forum. its like an Amish mmo full of people who want to hide their performance for obvious reasons

[DragonAgeOrgins]

People like you need to get the hell out of SWTOR. It's your kind of arrogant, elitist min-maxing attitude that ruins MMO communities. Go back to whatever MMO you crawled out of, or adjust your attitude accordingly.

 

I think there's a lot of former WoW players here who saw what damage meters, gearscore, etc. did to WoW who do not wish that to repeat itself. I know I sure as heck don't.

 

Going to repost this since the other one was re posted and their argument was for and mine is against I believe this does express what I believe just as the other quoted expresses what they believe in.

[rzrknight]

Well man , until they add it i will keep running flash points has dps : P they cant prove im not anyway lol.

[Cranberries]

Going to repost this since the other one was re posted and their argument was for and mine is against I believe this does express what I believe just as the other quoted expresses what they believe in.

 

My argument is fact.

 

Your argument is insult.

 

I'd rather have an MMO community based on factual information than insulting.

 

Let's put it another way:

 

If you get insulted because of your DPS there are 2 reasons for it:

1) your DPS is shockingly bad

2) your DPS is "too good" and the tank is raging at your threat per second

 

Both scenarios are bad, but option 2 is a lot better than option 1. If you get your feelings hurt over combat logs, it is because you are terrible.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Cranberries

[Dazgra]

"Originally Posted by Cranberries

Most people in this thread are *********** clueless so let me fill you in.

 

Let's take the current ONLY impossible fight in the game: Soa, the Infernal One, on nightmare mode. This thread details why is it impossible: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=147413

 

Note where you have to meet utterly IMPOSSIBLE DPS requirements over a set period of time to even come close to killing the boss. This is why universal combat logs are necessary. If I'm playing and achieving 2.2k DPS over 20 seconds (it's actually impossible at the moment, but I digress) and everyone else it apart from 1 person who is doing 1.1k DPS I have a bloody right to know who that complete *********** moron is so I can either tell him to DPS properly, or get the **** out of my progression - aiming for World Firsts - guild.

 

Let's take a completely doable fight, Commander Jorland in Boarding Party:

The engineer has no aggro table and 90,000 hp~

The medic has an aggro table and 90,000 hp~

Commander Jorland has 120,000 hp~

 

The enrage is 150 seconds:

400,000 / 2666.66

2666.66 / 3 (2 dps + 1 tank) = 888.88

 

Now this is a tightly tuned enrage, which also requires interrupts on the Medic (else he gets healed) and exceptional healing. If you wipe to the enrage there are multiple reasons why:

1) Interrupts on medic weren't occuring, meaning he was taking longer to kill

2) DPS wasn't high enough

3) Healing didn't allow DPS to properly rotate their max DPS rotation

4) People weren't focusing properly

5) Someone died - out of their own stupidity/healing issue

 

That's 5 reasons why a boss didn't die due to a strict enrage. A global combat log, thus something designed like Skada (Skada) would help identify the reason. Skada has these different modes:

- Damage done,

- DPS, Threat,

- Enemy damage done,

- Enemy damage taken,

- Healing, Overhealing,

- Total healing,

- Absorbs estimated,

- Damage taken, Dispels,

- Mana regen,

- Debuff uptimes,

- Activity

 

There is only 1 reason why people wouldn't want something like Skada in this game: they don't want their DPS to be recognised. If someone said to me "your DPS will be too low" I'd say to them, as a good player, "take me and let me wipe the floor with you." I know I'm good, I know a combat log would show I'm good, thus I'm not afraid of a combat log being added into the game."

 

 

 

 

 

Everyone must read this

[DragonAgeOrgins]

My argument is fact.

 

Your argument is insult.

 

I'd rather have an MMO community based on factual information than insulting.

 

You saying it's fact does not make it fact. Alot of people believe it would not be healthy for the community and I am one of those people. Just because you believe in yours as strongly does not make my position any less invalid no matter how much you would like it to. Their is no data...because their is no combat log.

[Cranberries]

You saying it's fact does not make it fact. Alot of people believe it would not be healthy for the community and I am one of those people. Just because you believe in yours as strongly does not make my position any less invalid no matter how much you would like it to. Their is no data...because their is no combat log.

 

Maths = fact.

 

Sorry, I used an actual ingame encounter which is actually tightly tuned. I used math to prove my point. I used supporting addon evidence to show the total brilliance addons can have towards a game. Take a look at Blizzard's raiding model - they're able to do the absolutely amazing encounters primarily because addons exist.

 

Besides you can already 'moderately' work out your ST DPS in game already via means of the Infernal Council (Duel of Fates) encounter. The 'DPS target' mob, on 16 man Nightmare mode, has 120,000 hp and you have 120 seconds to kill it before the mob enrages and becomes unkillable.

 

Ergo, you can already work out if people suck.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Cranberries

[DragonAgeOrgins]

People like you need to get the hell out of SWTOR. It's your kind of arrogant, elitist min-maxing attitude that ruins MMO communities. Go back to whatever MMO you crawled out of, or adjust your attitude accordingly.

 

I think there's a lot of former WoW players here who saw what damage meters, gearscore, etc. did to WoW who do not wish that to repeat itself. I know I sure as heck don't.

 

 

Quoted since the other person reposted. It does not insult. It expresses the frustration from a gamer's point of view for those people who not agree with what you are saying. Their is no recount, combat log in game so the data is just nonsense.

[Cranberries]

Quoted since the other person reposted. It does not insult. It expresses the frustration from a gamer's point of view for those people who not agree with what you are saying. Their is no recount, combat log in game so the data is just nonsense.

 

Like I said, you can already work out your DPS. Infernal Council.

 

If DPSer A kills their mob in 92 seconds, and DPSer B kills their mob in 112 seconds, DPSer A is better than thus DPSer B needs to pick their **** up or face getting kicked.

[Dazgra]

Quoted since the other person reposted. It does not insult. It expresses the frustration from a gamer's point of view for those people who not agree with what you are saying. Their is no recount, combat log in game so the data is just nonsense.

 

Are you dense, can you not see the difference between the two posts?

 

I'm pretty sure you're trolling.

[guided_by_voices]

Like I said, you can already work out your DPS. Infernal Council.

 

If DPSer A kills their mob in 92 seconds, and DPSer B kills their mob in 112 seconds, DPSer A is better than thus DPSer B needs to pick their **** up or face getting kicked.

 

if this is in game why do you need a parser again?

[Cranberries]

if this is in game why do you need a parser again?

 

Because it's your own personal own DPS. It doesn't show you DPS in presence of other player debuffs such as Nerve Wracking for example. Besides, DPS when standing still and not having to worry about movement is a lot more different than DPS when moving around.

 

If you can't see why parsing is necessary please never apply to a raiding guild, you'll make them worse.

[Chosenxeno]

EQ was not perfect, never said it was. it required alot of time to play. when SOE took over it went downhill fast. My guild left for wow because eq2 was run by SOE and we were still bitter over what they did to EQ. many left MMO's and most left wow. I and others stayed because we went from jobs to careers, single to married with kids. did not have the time needed to play EQ. plus trent reznor said it best "nothing quite like the feel of something new" the one thing wow did that was appealing at least at first was take the exp grind away.

 

we were fooled we traded exp grinding with groups to quest grinding solo. we leveled faster and it felt like something was being accomplished. raiding was fun at first but quickly faded, felt more like you were just going through the motions and finally now we just sit there waiting for the flashing screen to tell us what button to push next.

 

i and others were hoping that wouldn't be the case here. a month in and we are arguing over addons.

 

Vanguard(The 1st MMO I played at launch:) forced grouping and that's partly why it failed(the Bugs and the fact that you couldn't go to the future and bring back a computer that could run it didn't help either lol.)

 

What is this obsession with grouping, and why are EQers always opposed to a WOW and Rift Style of LFD that "groups"? Does it make sense that the pace you move in a game you pay for should be dictated by the population, and interest of other people in helping you? Isn't being able to move at a pace dictated by you and the time you can afford to invest better?

 

Didn't you have the option of not using addons or joining a guild that requires them or am I mistaken?

Edited January 13, 2012 by Chosenxeno

[Cranberries]

Most people in this thread are *********** clueless so let me fill you in.

 

Let's take the current ONLY impossible fight in the game: Soa, the Infernal One, on nightmare mode. This thread details why is it impossible: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=147413

 

Note where you have to meet utterly IMPOSSIBLE DPS requirements over a set period of time to even come close to killing the boss. This is why universal combat logs are necessary. If I'm playing and achieving 2.2k DPS over 20 seconds (it's actually impossible at the moment, but I digress) and everyone else it apart from 1 person who is doing 1.1k DPS I have a bloody right to know who that complete *********** moron is so I can either tell him to DPS properly, or get the **** out of my progression - aiming for World Firsts - guild.

 

Let's take a completely doable fight, Commander Jorland in Boarding Party:

The engineer has no aggro table and 90,000 hp~

The medic has an aggro table and 90,000 hp~

Commander Jorland has 120,000 hp~

 

The enrage is 150 seconds:

400,000 / 2666.66

2666.66 / 3 (2 dps + 1 tank) = 888.88

 

Now this is a tightly tuned enrage, which also requires interrupts on the Medic (else he gets healed) and exceptional healing. If you wipe to the enrage there are multiple reasons why:

1) Interrupts on medic weren't occuring, meaning he was taking longer to kill

2) DPS wasn't high enough

3) Healing didn't allow DPS to properly rotate their max DPS rotation

4) People weren't focusing properly

5) Someone died - out of their own stupidity/healing issue

 

That's 5 reasons why a boss didn't die due to a strict enrage. A global combat log, thus something designed like Skada (Skada) would help identify the reason. Skada has these different modes:

- Damage done,

- DPS, Threat,

- Enemy damage done,

- Enemy damage taken,

- Healing, Overhealing,

- Total healing,

- Absorbs estimated,

- Damage taken, Dispels,

- Mana regen,

- Debuff uptimes,

- Activity

 

There is only 1 reason why people wouldn't want something like Skada in this game: they don't want their DPS to be recognised. If someone said to me "your DPS will be too low" I'd say to them, as a good player, "take me and let me wipe the floor with you." I know I'm good, I know a combat log would show I'm good, thus I'm not afraid of a combat log being added into the game.

 

Quoting myself because maths > people who are terrible.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Cranberries

[Chosenxeno]

It's amazing how DragonAgeOrigins and GuidedbyVoices have been in this thread all day and they have yet to provide any solid points for against. How many people have to tell you that you are wrong, and point out your obvious desires to have this game placed in the mold of VERY Niche Relic?

 

You are both so obvious. It started out cute. Then it was funny. Now it's just sad.

[guided_by_voices]

Vanguard(The 1st MMO I played at launch:) forced grouping and that's partly why it failed(the Bugs and the fact that you couldn't go to the future and bring back a computer that could run it didn't help either lol.)

 

What is this obsession with grouping, and why are EQers always opposed to a WOW and Rift Style of LFD that "groups"? Does it make sense that the pace you move in a game you pay for should be dictated by the population, and interest of other people in helping you? Isn't being able to move at a pace dictated by you and the time you can afford to invest better?

 

Didn't you have the option of not using addons or joining a guild that requires them or am I mistaken?

 

oh vanguard what game it could of been too bad nobody played it at least on the servers i tried.

 

grouping leads to much stronger communities within the game. there was mutual respect among players (for the most part). the bosses were up for everyone, not instanced like wow at least when i played). we had rotations for dungeons and agreements among guilds. how would that work out in wow?

 

as for the addons i didn't mind them at first but after a while i got really bored of being told when the next boss move is. now the encounters are so unforgiving you cannot play the game without them. the kills just didn't seem as rewarding.

[DragonAgeOrgins]

People like you need to get the hell out of SWTOR. It's your kind of arrogant, elitist min-maxing attitude that ruins MMO communities. Go back to whatever MMO you crawled out of, or adjust your attitude accordingly.

 

I think there's a lot of former WoW players here who saw what damage meters, gearscore, etc. did to WoW who do not wish that to repeat itself. I know I sure as heck don't.

 

Re quoting because a person shouldn't be allowed to quote themselves. Also check out the earlier page to see the eslitest attitude of the person telling the person not to join a raidin guild because it would make them worst.

[guided_by_voices]

It's amazing how DragonAgeOrigins and GuidedbyVoices have been in this thread all day and they have yet to provide any solid points for against. How many people have to tell you that you are wrong, and point out your obvious desires to have this game placed in the mold of VERY Niche Relic?

 

You are both so obvious. It started out cute. Then it was funny. Now it's just sad.

 

I know my words are lost an people like you. if you haven't really raided with and without addons you will not be able understand. in any case gl.

[Korialstrazs]

Re quoting because a person shouldn't be allowed to quote themselves. Also check out the earlier page to see the eslitest attitude of the person telling the person not to join a raidin guild because it would make them worst.

 

Yeah, if you don't see the point of bettering yourself using a tool, and would rather have people guess and point fingers at the WRONG PEOPLE because you don't have a parser then you will not improve the performance of the guild.

[PjPablo]

Min-maxing is ALWAYS going to be in MMOs. Even without addons, meters, logs, etc you have folks out there right now breaking down data in the client and determining the various formulas for damage, healing, etc. They are determining impact of stats and modifiers. Theorycrafting isn't going anywhere. All the logs and such do are make it an easier exercise.

 

I really struggle with why cannot people let one group of people play they want, while they go off and play the way THEY want. Min-maxers are typically non-casual, progression types who aren't even running in the same circles as the people posting in this thread against open access to data.

 

Live and let live already.

[Dazgra]

Re quoting because a person shouldn't be allowed to quote themselves. Also check out the earlier page to see the eslitest attitude of the person telling the person not to join a raidin guild because it would make them worst.

 

Confirmed for 12 year old.

[chrisftw]

Good no recount for group. And you know personal DPS. Now everyone wins. No loud mouth in raid shouting everyone's number's and if you ask me mine. I'll lie.

 

lol i was that guy to i would be in PUGS and post my recount.

 

JUST TO SEE. if they would get trolled by the group.

 

i'm a bad person aren't i