Joskara Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It is funny to see this thread just a few posts above this one: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=149708 No consumables and fighting at mixed levels. He also explains it so a monkey can understand. Its not the class, its you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlyxDinas Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I don't buy the idea that we're not viable in terms of being tanks within PvP or even solid threats. Keep in mind that I'm speaking as a Shield Specialist. Expertise might diminish things somewhat but we have plenty of tools to keep in a fight long enough to make a serious impact. Granted, this is not as much as it should be at the moment given how shield chance and such is working/not working. But that acknowledged, we can still do quite a bit because of our utility. Not only do we have the benefit of a fair amount of controlling abilities but we also have the means to prolong our presence on the battlefield. Smoke grenade, reactive shield, adrenaline rush. These might not seem like huge deals but used properly they can make a big difference. Not to mention Neural Surge. The aforementioned abilities (in addition to taunts, which can really help out in the right scenario) allow us to keep enemies attacking us longer. And that's important. If they're chipping away at us, they're not chipping away at that DPS right behind them. And this is without going into how useful guard can be, since it gives us all kind of synergy with healers. Damage wise, we can still be threats too. A properly specc'd stock strike can be very damaging and our AoE capacity is pretty solid. Add in the mobility storm gives us and we're pretty good in zones like Voidstar and Huttball in terms of ensuring victory. Bottom line: we have plenty of tools available to us and if you're using them properly, they can have a huge effect. Edited January 14, 2012 by AlyxDinas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHexxus Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Vanguards are quite useless/frustrating to play until you get good PvP gear. Try the Assault Tree, btw. People underestimate the use of taunts in Warzones. So useful when used correctly, along with guard. I'll agree that better gear makes it easier, but that's with any class. At lvl 50 with 18k+hp, it takes 3-4 people to take me down with any sort of speed. We are a great class for being annoying around nodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FryChikN Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 is the hybrid tactics/assault for pvp strictly? or is it a good leveling spec also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everal Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I started my Vanguard "shield heavy" with my primary goal of pvp. I did "ok" but around level 25 I went Assualt with some tactics thrown in. For my playstyle, that was the way to go. I'm now 40 and have been pretty consistent. Sure you hit a "wall of 50's" now and again in pvp, but that aside I love my Vanguard. Unless I'm having an awful game (see "wall of 50's") I'm consistently in the top five for damage. Don't look for a "do all" toon. Study your class, utilize your strengths, and avoid your weaknesses. Also, don't forget your situational awareness. If you jump into a ball of bad guys, it may not go well for you. Fight the fights you can win, and avoid the ones you can not. In regards to questing, the assault build has made that a breeze. Especially with Dorne (healer companion) in tow. good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpotlessMind Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) All you people who are saying such nice things about Vanguards, I have a couple of questions for you: 1) are you 50 with champion + battle master gear? 2) what opponents are you fighting? Are they geared up with champion + battle master gear? 3) Have you played other classes to 50 yet? I am not talking about another tank class. I am talking about end game pvp, before end game, yes, the vanguard class is quite powerful, but don't get tricked by that. An equal geared scoundrel/Operative can take you down in one stun or at least get you down to 10-15% health. You're not as tanky or godlike as you might think and that has nothing to do with player skills. I am talking about DPS vs damage mitigation. I am not here to argue with anybody. I just want to share my experience. We are not godlike nor OP as some have claimed. I can see how some people could come to that conclusion, because vanguard is good early on to 50. When your enemies are of equal level and is also geared up is when the problem starts. Basically, if you're both equal your class becomes the deciding factor. The Vanguard then becomes a let down. Our core mechanic as a tank just doesn't hold up at this point. If you don't believe me that is fine, you'll just have to experience it later on. EDIT: btw... I am talking about class balance. You'll fine that you won't do enough damage and die way to fast in end game pvp versus other non tank classes. Edited January 13, 2012 by SpotlessMind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ururururu Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Pff. I'm doing just fine before 50 on my vanguard, currently 41. The class is good enough that I don't even need gear to kick ***. Yeah I don't expect to win 1v1 but I play smart and use my abilities properly. I have lots of experience on melee in pvp so I know how to manage risk. With pvp 40 gear I'm feeling very viable at the moment. Even against premade 50s in full pvp gear. If you need top gear to be useful on vanguard class you're just bad. Your example of operatives is misguided. They eat lots of people, but I would contend if you stack hitpoints you'll be able to survive their burst. They can't burst me down now if I have a healer around, why should they get me later when I have 18000+ hitpoints? I can kite them & keep them out of stealth with dots.. equal gear operatives are easy peasy. Edited January 13, 2012 by ururururu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpotlessMind Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Right, kiting an operative. You talking about 18k hp and surviving an operative shows that you don't know what you're talking about. I am not going to argue with somebody who doesn't have any experience doing high end pvp. You'll find out for yourself. There are a lot of misinformation out there because of people who don't have experience in high end pvp and just mouthing off about their low end pvp experiences. It is totally different when people are fully geared. EDIT: Here is a thread of high level players with full pvp gear talking about tanking in PvP being non existent. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034. Edited January 14, 2012 by SpotlessMind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaoogaa Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Operatives - if you get through the initial damage you can kite them 100% to 0 since they can never actually catch up to you. Snare, strafe kite if they pop invis then expose them. If you do not have all the roots in your tree then you should respec. If your main concern is pvp you should be specced fully for it. Operatives will get nerfed until then they will make you better players...if not this game will go the way of warhammer online quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlyxDinas Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 One thing people don't realize is that Storm, at the moment, isn't a from ground only ability. So ignoring that it also offers amazing mobility, you can Storm to higher levels in Huttball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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