Sarfux Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 There is a certain mindset behind mmos now. That is World of Warcraft. Hate it..or like it. They must have done something right..because millions upon millions have been playing that game 7 plus years now. I don't care what you say, the facts are there. Now that that is out of the way there is this: In players' minds...most of us started with wow, and loved it. We saw it grow, it's good times and it's bad. We stuck with it through all those years and just got better over the years. Then it sucked simple as that. But here is where it will ALWAYS HAVE a certain...thing with people. People will always remember the good times they ever had in their first of anything. That first time NEVER leaves your head. No matter how much you try. That is, if you keep living in the past, and are ignorant and do not think what could be better in the future. WoW WAS good. The once great king, the once epic game. But it is now fading from that, but still players will ALWAYS compare EVERY MMORPG coming out forever to world of warcraft. There is no stopping it..there is no changing it. I have accepted the fact myself..even if it is not even remotely RELATED to wow in ANY shape or form, it is an mmo to people and therefore, it MUST BE LIKE WOW or a wow clone. THATS IT. To most people, if the next mmo that comes out isn't like wow, if they admit or don't, they will quit and go back to WoW. WoW captured people because it was the first one FOR THEM that somehow grabbed them, and it doesn't let go. It is from the marketing, brainwashing, addictive leveling all combined in one and people somehow always feel the need to compare to WoW. period... that's just the reality of mmos now. It's that simple. NO MATTER THE GAME PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS COMPARE EVERY ONLINE GAME TO WOW. THAT...IS...IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeToedSloth Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Hey, where is the bathroom around here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shivty Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 There is a certain mindset behind mmos now. That is World of Warcraft. Hate it..or like it. They must have done something right..because millions upon millions have been playing that game 7 plus years now. I don't care what you say, the facts are there. Now that that is out of the way there is this: In players' minds...most of us started with wow, and loved it. We saw it grow, it's good times and it's bad. We stuck with it through all those years and just got better over the years. Then it sucked simple as that. But here is where it will ALWAYS HAVE a certain...thing with people. People will always remember the good times they ever had in their first of anything. That first time NEVER leaves your head. No matter how much you try. That is, if you keep living in the past, and are ignorant and do not think what could be better in the future. WoW WAS good. The once great king, the once epic game. But it is now fading from that, but still players will ALWAYS compare EVERY MMORPG coming out forever to world of warcraft. There is no stopping it..there is no changing it. I have accepted the fact myself..even if it is not even remotely RELATED to wow in ANY shape or form, it is an mmo to people and therefore, it MUST BE LIKE WOW or a wow clone. THATS IT. To most people, if the next mmo that comes out isn't like wow, if they admit or don't, they will quit and go back to WoW. WoW captured people because it was the first one FOR THEM that somehow grabbed them, and it doesn't let go. It is from the marketing, brainwashing, addictive leveling all combined in one and people somehow always feel the need to compare to WoW. period... that's just the reality of mmos now. It's that simple. NO MATTER THE GAME PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS COMPARE EVERY ONLINE GAME TO WOW. THAT...IS...IT! So, what exactly is the point? Or was this just another point for Captian Obvious saving the day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMonarch Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Totally awesome story, bro. Blew my mind, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurugeorge Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) There is a certain mindset behind mmos now. That is World of Warcraft. Hate it..or like it. They must have done something right..because millions upon millions have been playing that game 7 plus years now. I don't care what you say, the facts are there. Now that that is out of the way there is this: In players' minds...most of us started with wow, and loved it. We saw it grow, it's good times and it's bad. We stuck with it through all those years and just got better over the years. Then it sucked simple as that. But here is where it will ALWAYS HAVE a certain...thing with people. People will always remember the good times they ever had in their first of anything. That first time NEVER leaves your head. No matter how much you try. That is, if you keep living in the past, and are ignorant and do not think what could be better in the future. WoW WAS good. The once great king, the once epic game. But it is now fading from that, but still players will ALWAYS compare EVERY MMORPG coming out forever to world of warcraft. There is no stopping it..there is no changing it. I have accepted the fact myself..even if it is not even remotely RELATED to wow in ANY shape or form, it is an mmo to people and therefore, it MUST BE LIKE WOW or a wow clone. THATS IT. To most people, if the next mmo that comes out isn't like wow, if they admit or don't, they will quit and go back to WoW. WoW captured people because it was the first one FOR THEM that somehow grabbed them, and it doesn't let go. It is from the marketing, brainwashing, addictive leveling all combined in one and people somehow always feel the need to compare to WoW. period... that's just the reality of mmos now. It's that simple. NO MATTER THE GAME PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS COMPARE EVERY ONLINE GAME TO WOW. THAT...IS...IT! Yes, and this psychology is the reason why MMOs have gradually turned into shallow lobby games, with only a vestigial sense of virtual world. Lots of things have improved of course - graphics, power of computers, etc. But design-wise, they've gotten worse and worse as time has gone on. See this article: Why Virtual Worlds are Designed by Newbies - No Really! WoW is just a recent stage-post in that decline. By streamlining the DIKU MUD model of Everquest according to player complaints about Everquest via focus group (and of course by making a damn good game), they made a game that lost a lot of the immersiveness of EQ and made WoW more of a lobby than a virtual world. All MMOs since have followed that model - less virtual world, more lobby for easy-to-get-into action. Yes of course, everyone compares every MMO to their first, because every MMO fan seeks to recapture the "magic". But you never will. It's a sad, sad addiction. In the context of all this, gameplay-wise SWTOR is par for the course - a fairly shallow game. However, the storyline and VO, grouped quests, and the resultant extra immersion for some people, is one of the few genuine innovations in recent years. It doesn't offer any depth to the virtual world in the traditional sense (i.e. players largely create their own content through their interactions), but it does create a pleasant illusion of a virtual world created by the devs. It actually doesn't matter what MMOs new come down the line, all ex-WoW-ers will wistfully compare them to WoW and find them lacking - they'll be in the bind that they vocally WANT them to be like WoW, they'll piss and moan till every last little feature is a copy of WoW; but if the devs capitulate and make the game like WoW, paradoxically ex-WoW-ers will hate the game, because "being WoW-like" is what drove them away from WoW Edited January 12, 2012 by gurugeorge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razhah Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I can appreciate your point of view because I have the same feeling towards Everquest. It's like your first love. To me though, WoW was a blight on the whole genre. I do not like the direction MMO's have headed since WoW was released but every game designer wants to get a piece of Blizzards magic. All these games released since then have tried to use their versions of it and have failed. I personally look forward to the day when a developer grows enough stones to break away from the WoW mold and put something out there that revolutionizes the MMO genre once again. This current trend is stale and boring. BioWares story aspect is a fresh idea but it's a shiny surface coating the same old stuff as every other MMO and I question its durability. I fear that the time required to design and code new content and then get voice actors to do each voice sequence will significantly slow down any new content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvonuk Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Good OP, Wow ruined the genre and bought us idiots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 Good OP, Wow ruined the genre and bought us idiots Very good!! You have FINALLY gotten a point out of my thread! I have waiting and waiting till the day people realized that I don't make a point with my threads, the post is to make people think about the point! You caught it. THANKYOU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chosenxeno Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Very good!! You have FINALLY gotten a point out of my thread! I have waiting and waiting till the day people realized that I don't make a point with my threads, the post is to make people think about the point! You caught it. THANKYOU! HOW did WOW "ruin" the Genre if we are playing a new game of that Genre atm? If my pants are "ruined" I can not wear them anymore sense they have been made useless. If WOW "ruined" the genre than this game shouldn't exist. I think "expanded" of "opened up" the Genre are more accurate descriptions. "I do not like it" does not define ruin or ruined. Edited January 12, 2012 by Chosenxeno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razhah Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 HOW did WOW "ruin" the Genre if we are playing a new game of that Genre atm? If my pants are "ruined" I can not wear them anymore sense they have been made useless. If WOW "ruined" the genre than this game shouldn't exist. I think "expanded" of "opened up" the Genre are more accurate descriptions. "I do not like it" does not define ruin or ruined. You should read the link gurugeorge posted. If you read it you will see that it makes sense that since WoW launched the genre has been in decline. Then it may make more sense to you than it did before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfabulous Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I think the problem is with us remembering that awesome time with the new game, but not finding it here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khechari Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 See this article: Why Virtual Worlds are Designed by Newbies - No Really! "The result is that virtual world design follows a downward path of not-quite-good-enough" ^Sums up my feelings completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightblaster Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Two words: Skinner Box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Has anyone stopped to think that WoW, like the Kardashians, is/was only famous for being famous? Once your friend was playing, you had to play too, and so the ball just rolled downhill. Everyone wanted to know what people were talking about. And as the ball rolled and rolled, the prophecy fulfilled itself. For the record, I absolutely hate/hated WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfabulous Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Has anyone stopped to think that WoW, like the Kardashians, is/was only famous for being famous? Once your friend was playing, you had to play too, and so the ball just rolled downhill. Everyone wanted to know what people were talking about. And as the ball rolled and rolled, the prophecy fulfilled itself. For the record, I absolutely hate/hated WoW. They just had all around excellent execution, marketing, catering to new sections of the popultion, etc. You can't forget that blizzard hasn't only made WoW. D1, D2, SC, and WC series were all VERY popular sellers. Blizzard is just pretty good at what they do tbh. They've slowly created a pile of *****, but they're going towards titan anyways so I doubt they care as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillen Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Is the OP serious? MMO's existed for a long time before WoW. WoW was not my first MMO by a long-shot. Yet it's the best MMO that has ever been released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotant Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) This thread... This thread is awful. The only psychological phenomenon here is the OP's strange, childish WoW obsession - or at least that's what I gleamed from this frankly incoherant rant. WoW is a video game, people buy and play it because the value of its entertainment is greater than the value of their money and time investment. Edited January 12, 2012 by Rotant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koboldfodder Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I will explain all, no need to read anything ever on the subject except what I write. When MMOs were first becoming mainstream games, around 1999 or so, they were more about the creativity of the designers rather than what type of game they would create. There was no blueprint on how to create one. They had the technology but they had to improvise and make it work on the fly. The original Everquest people actually were gamers and pretty hard core gamers at that. The original EQ plan was conceived probably over a weekend or two and filled about 80 pages of things that sounded cool to put in a videogame that lots of people could play online. So all those ideas were new. Some worked some did not. It was going pretty well to, there were three big games out around the same time. Ultima Online, Asheron's Call and Everquest. They even started on making the next generation of games. SOE had plans for EQ2 and SWG, Turbine was planning AC2 and Blizzard was making a game as well. When WOW was released, it basically worked out of the box, something that no other MMO did. Sure there were a few bugs and server lag, but the game worked and you could play it. Then it started to make serious money. Then the non gamers started to pay more attention to the genre. The guys writing the pay checks. They saw the money WOW made, and compared it with the money SWG, EQ2 and AC2 were not making. There was much more money with WOW. So what is the easiest solution? Copy WOW or the basic premise of WOW. Gone went the creativity of the designer and in went the standard blueprint most games have followed for about 10 years. The developers who were gamers used to have a lot to say in gaming projects, but when the money starts rolling in that power ended with them and went to the guys who financially funded the projects. You can still get a great game out of it, but you miss out on a lot. Skyrim is an example here, great game but very different from Oblivion which was very different from Morrowind. It will take an outside developer with his own money to create an American Sandbox style game to change the thinking and allow creativity back into the genre. SOE is working on EQ Next, but they are seen as one of the prime contributors of the dumbing down of the genre so it's hard to fathom they could be a part of the saving process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptRavenous Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 *SARCASM ALERT* All MMOs should only reach out to niche groups, and should require a lot of dedicated time and effort on your part to play, that way, people with less time on the hands and less "intellect" will not be tempted to play the game. This model for making MMOs should make the investors and developers lots of money to continue developing content for your game in a way that only a small minority could enjoy. *END SARCASM ALERT* I started MMOs with Ultima Online back in 1999. The game was filled with high lvl elitists ganking newcomers to the game. I got about halfway through the game, then quit. The only fun to be had there was among those who had already put their soul into the game playing it, niche crowds not welcoming of newcomers. It turned me off to MMOs. My next try was World of Warcraft. With an MMO made easier and therefore more accessible to the masses, it was MUCH easier to find the right crowds to hang out with. I only left Warcraft because of the cookie-cutter class talent trees. I didn't like they had taken about the only avenue of character customization out of the game. I wasn't going to pay 15$ a month for a game that was now worse than a Diablo 2 experience in terms of content and customization. Champions Online was a good game, till you got to max lvl and discovered all the end-game content was broken or unfinished. Their customer service was near non-existent as well, only played that one 2 months. EVE online suffers from the same problems that Ultima Online had, only now are the EVE developers trying to open up the game more and develop content more appealing for new players to the game. They've only really succeeded in chasing away some long-time customers. EVE online is SIMS in Space, only fun to be had there is among the player-run empires, and you might be able to join one of those after a couple years of playing EVE. Dumb. Otherwise, its a mind-numbing grind fest with missions being repeated ad-naseum. Lord of the Rings Online. Great community there. Game is way to much work to be fun, skill crafting can sometimes take 2 or 3 hours (depending on how many resources you've gathered), and a lot of the group & raid content is SO difficult, you must know EXACTLY what to expect, in detail, before going into them. You cannot go into them after skimming a guide with a "pretty fair idea of what to expect". You will get wiped, many times. Most bosses require very specific tactics to defeat, and can kill most players in only 2 or 3 hits. A game that requires me to read a detailed guide in order to raid, no, not fun. I love the community there, but the game difficulty makes the game lackluster. Star Wars. I went on a PUG raid and it was successful. It was difficult, but fun. Repeatable group content is great, encouraging higher lvls to go back and lend a hand to lower lvls to get some social points. Brilliant. I play MMOS with my family, and we have loved how this game has incentives for grouping. Crafting is awesome, having companions is a great bonus. If you take the time to learn about keeping your main companion geared, and how to set their abilities for combat, they are every bit as competent in combat as your own toon. This game started out with a bang. Its not perfect, but will get better as time goes on. This is the MMO I have been waiting for, for many years. Yeah, there's a few annoying things in the game, but every MMO has its annoyances, I can work around them here, easily. Now, what was the point of saying all that? To complain that you are not having fun because you are unable to ignore the mindless masses bantering over public chat channels, believing its because MMOs have been "dumbed down for idiots" only reveals your inability to ignore said idiots, letting them get under your skin. Time to learn constructive ways to deal with humanity, instead of blaming the game for ruining your social bubble. I'm glad MMOs have become more appealing to a broader audience base, it only means my chances of meeting other players & having some fun times with them has increased a hundred-fold! I met some good people in WoW, met way more in LotrO, and the chat Republic side on my server is usually pretty good later in the evening after the kids are in bed for school the next day. So, I usually play later, to find the kind of players I like to hang with. OP is right about one thing, Warcraft really did change the MMO genre, it made it more appealing to more people, and now the MMO market is really heating up and becoming competitive. Yes, I have to put up with more "idiots", but /ignore works so well, that it usually ends up ruining their fun, not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slightlycampana Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 HOW did WOW "ruin" the Genre if we are playing a new game of that Genre atm? If my pants are "ruined" I can not wear them anymore sense they have been made useless. If WOW "ruined" the genre than this game shouldn't exist. I think "expanded" of "opened up" the Genre are more accurate descriptions. "I do not like it" does not define ruin or ruined. It ruined the genre because it made a horrible style of game play the industry standard. It's the equivalent of making your pants pink and blue tartan checks with green ruffles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racsofp Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 There is a certain mindset behind mmos now. That is World of Warcraft. Hate it..or like it. They must have done something right..because millions upon millions have been playing that game 7 plus years now. I don't care what you say, the facts are there. Now that that is out of the way there is this: In players' minds...most of us started with wow, and loved it. We saw it grow, it's good times and it's bad. We stuck with it through all those years and just got better over the years. Then it sucked simple as that. But here is where it will ALWAYS HAVE a certain...thing with people. People will always remember the good times they ever had in their first of anything. That first time NEVER leaves your head. No matter how much you try. That is, if you keep living in the past, and are ignorant and do not think what could be better in the future. WoW WAS good. The once great king, the once epic game. But it is now fading from that, but still players will ALWAYS compare EVERY MMORPG coming out forever to world of warcraft. There is no stopping it..there is no changing it. I have accepted the fact myself..even if it is not even remotely RELATED to wow in ANY shape or form, it is an mmo to people and therefore, it MUST BE LIKE WOW or a wow clone. THATS IT. To most people, if the next mmo that comes out isn't like wow, if they admit or don't, they will quit and go back to WoW. WoW captured people because it was the first one FOR THEM that somehow grabbed them, and it doesn't let go. It is from the marketing, brainwashing, addictive leveling all combined in one and people somehow always feel the need to compare to WoW. period... that's just the reality of mmos now. It's that simple. NO MATTER THE GAME PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS COMPARE EVERY ONLINE GAME TO WOW. THAT...IS...IT!I agree. Long live Webcrawler. The standard by which all search engines shall be measured! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klinesmoker Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 It ruined the genre because it made a horrible style of game play the industry standard. It's the equivalent of making your pants pink and blue tartan checks with green ruffles. Read the post above you, though I worry about whether or not it would be able to penetrate your thick skull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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