Vanguard thoughts at 30

[Chazcon]

Waste of my time Edited January 11, 2012 by Chazcon

[Gustomucho]

DISCLAIMER: This is not a guide, I'm not sure why people write guides, it's just an exercise in epeenage if you ask me

 

With this single sentence you remove all credibility of your post. Your 9000 feet of wall text is a guide, you can call it how you want, it is still a guide.

 

Seriously, "thoughts" on lvl 30 vanguard should be a resume of appreciation / dislikes of the class. What you wrote is "an exercise in epeenage", and sadly... there are already many guides better conceived and shorter.

[qwinnet]

You better start gearing Elara because you won't survive long without the heals.

[Mallozzi]

this was a good post, not sure why the op removed it.

[qwinnet]

I thought so too, even with the comment "tanks don't need healers". Every post gets flamed at some point. Even the best threads always degenerate into a flaming session. No OP should take it personal. There are trolls lurking everywhere. My comment is based on experience leveling to 50 and doing the L50 dailies. I couldn't imagine doing it again without a healer.

[Gustomucho]

This is op:

 

DISCLAIMER: This is not a guide, I'm not sure why people write guides, it's just an exercise in epeenage if you ask me. So don't get worked up over my way of playing a Vanguard if you don't agree. I'm tossing out my take for kin and community to read and if anyone takes a tidbit out of this, cool. Also I don't PvP at all so there is nothing in here for red players.

 

IN GENERAL: I am really enjoying playing a Vanguard. This game is a blast (and a trip at times). I've always played a tank character in every game for years now, even before there was what you could call a modern MMO aggro mechanic. I have played my Vanguard to 30 and this is my take on the class so far. I really didn't feel 'tanky' until the mid-20's and like a lot of games, all classes have a protective boost at low levels and aren't fully specialized until at or near initial cap (level 50). By 'tanky' I mean having the two main attributes of a tank, survivability and the ability to generate and maintain aggro through means other than DPS. At 30 I finally have all 3 taunts and most of my other skills. What I am still missing is my second ammo regen and second heal, which are part of a tank's survivability, Looking forward to the run up to 50.

 

KEYMAP: I am an old school keyboarder and would throw away the moue completely if I could. Everybody plays differently, some use a keyboard and mouse combo like in a FPS game, some folks are clickers and use the mouse only. All these ways are viable, it's personal preference. I like to keep my hands always on the keys because trying to acquire the mouse pointer on the screen in combat is difficult in a fast and confusing fight where a lot of stuff is going on. It screws me up and gets me and my party killed. I remap the key bindings to a custom keymap that is basically what I have used in different games for years, left hand = movement and taunts, right hand = combat. Here is a link for anyone interested: http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3...mapchazcon.png

 

BUILD: This is subject to change as I am only 30 and I'm sure I will toy with this at 50. I'm using a 30 8 3 build right now. I focused on getting Smoke Grenade at 20 and Storm at 30. I will not be using Energy Blast as I think it's unnecessary for ammo regen and not worth the cost of 1 skill point for the DPS it does. Here is my current thinking for reference: http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5...3083chazco.png

 

GEAR: I'm not solid on which way to go on gear, after 50 and some look-back I'll have a better idea of how I'd do it again. But for now my plan is to go the Orange gear route and upgrade item modifications as I level. I am trading Commendation Medals for new Orange gear as it becomes available from the Commendation Vendors and also upgrading older gear with items mods as I finish each planet. My thinking is that this is keeping me well geared and saving me cash. I am also buying crafted gear off the GTN to fill slots. I am upgrading my non-orange gear off the GTN as I find pieces that are better, and this includes Earpieces, Implants, etc.. I'm discovering that we make a LOT of money (credits) in this game very easily so my thinking lately is that there is no reason to not always have the best gear in this game. The only issue is that because the game is still less than a month old, there is not a huge selection of crafted gear on the GTN. If you are in a good guild with crafters available you are much better off at this point. As far as which Item Modifications I use - I always use Commando Barrels, Commando Armoring, and Commando Mods. These all have the highest Endurance for item mods of the same level and type. For Enhancements these change by level and so I go for Fortitude/Critical/Power and then Defense/Absorb/Immunity/Steadfast. All my Orange gear including my rifle gets these.

 

CRAFTING: Are there any crew skills that are better for a tank class? I went with Armormech so that I could craft my own heavy armor. But the reality is that it's difficult and expensive to max your crafting AND find or reverse engineer all the schematics you'll need as you level. I’m always behind the curve. It's much cheaper to trade for or purchase your armor. If any crew skill is somehow an advantage for a tank I would say Biochem so that you can make and use reusable medpacs and stims. Something for me to think about changing.

 

STATS: I am prioritizing my stats in this order: Endurance, Aim, Defense, Shield Chance, Absorption. From past experience in other games I am wary of stacking one stats over all others, a balance of tank-oriented stats has always produced the most resilient tank character. The jury is still out on what this balance is in this game, but following the general school of thought for tanks in MMO games can't lead me too far astray. Endurance is the stat that increases your health pool and that is always a priority for a tank. But a good tank is more than a big 'ol bag of health and damage avoidance and/or mitigation are really what increase our survivability. Defense increases your chance to avoid a hit completely and that is a secondary stat to always try to get on a piece of gear. Shield Chance can be thought of as the chance for partial mitigation if the Defense check fails, and Absorption affects the amount of that partial mitigation. So roughly your lines of defense are these: Defense/Shield Chance & Absorption/Health Pool (Endurance). So why not go after every bit of Defense gear you can find? Well I do but keep in mind that Defense/Shield Chance/Absorption gives you a CHANCE of avoiding a hit, while your health pool that is created with Endurance is always there. In the end you want a good balance of all these. And Aim of course is necessary for DPS generation which although is traditionally not a tanks main priority, needs to be maintained in this game because of the small fellowship size. With small fellowships every players in the group needs to be contributing his or her share of DPS.

 

POTS: I carry a stack of the best Medpacs I can get and also a stack of Fortitude stims (Endurance). I won't waste a stim on trash mobs but before a real fight I'll always use one. There are crafted stims that give Endurance and also other tank-useful stat boosts, get the best you can find for your level.

 

MATH: I have not done any testing yet on combat mechanics to determine the math behind the scenes. I've seen a few posts but I just don't think anyone has had time yet. Looking forward to this at some point, as knowing what stat caps are and the point of diminishing returns is really useful in tweaking your character's build.

 

DATACRONS: These are free stats boost so why wouldn't you go after them? And maybe there is a big grand prize at the end that will REALLY make it worthwhile - that's what I keep telling myself as I sit on a balloon for 30m or have been falling off a pipe all evening, lol. The reality is that you get stats boosts and also can craft nice Relics in the Jedi Temple from matrix shards.

 

COMPANION: Aric Jorgan. Period. DPS to compliment your tanking. Tanks don't need healer companions, we sure don't need the M1-4X tank, and nobody needs C2-N2 lol. Of course I am only 30 and have not 'spoiled' myself, I have no idea what the rest of my companions will be like. But unless one of them is a better DPS character that Jorgan I will be keeping him alongside at 50. He gets all my hand-me-down gear, except that I keep him equipped with the best cannon I can find. His stats priorities are Aim/Critical and when I can craft a better piece for him, or find one in loot, he gets it. Also if I have extra Commendation Medals I'll get him a bit or two of Orange gear and keep his item mods upgraded. For him it's Reflex Barrels and Armoring, and Enhancements that increase his Critical. I took M1-4X out when I got him. The two of us fighting was like watching paint dry. No danger and no DPS lol. We did have fun Harpooning mobs back and forth from 20m like a human yo-yo. One important thing to do with your companion is to play him just like your main character, don't just leave him to auto-target. Direct his fire, choose his targets, use him to start fights when the need arises.

 

SKILLS: A brief take on skills I use, in no particular order:

 

- TAUNTS: At 30 we have all three of our taunts, Neural Jolt, Sonic Round, and Harpoon. Never start a fight with a taunt, that 's a waste of a cooldown. Save them for getting aggro back from your mates during a fight. When fighting solo you'll rarely use anything other than Harpoon. The 'poon is great for plucking a mob, especially a patrol, to your group without alerting nearby mobs (as long as they aren't aggro-tied). It is also useful for rounding up mobs or yanking them into melee range. As we get higher up in the skill tree Harpoon stuns as well which is some nice CC. And everybody loves a Vanguard on a datacron run, you become the hoist for your mates (provided you can get up there first).

 

- STORM: Right now I save this for two things - 1) Getting me out of a kill zone during a fight, by charging at the mob that is firing on me, and 2) to charge into the mobs as part of rounding them up. If I haven't used it by the end of the fight it's a good finisher too. Storm causes some damage, interrupts and stuns as I get higher in the skill tree and I expect to use it more for its CC ability later. Now, many folks use Storm as a starter or early in a fight to get them to the mobs as part of the rounding-up process. Right now I don't want to waste that cooldown, and I don't see the time it takes to run in as significant. But, I am only 30 and this may change, have to keep an open mind.

 

- HAMMER SHOT: Unglamorous and way underrated, and way underused by a lot of players. You can tell who they are, the ones complaining about a lack of ammo. It's just not as cool as all those other flashy skills we have. I mix in HS a lot while fighting. I bet that 30-50% of my skills used during a fight are HS. depending on the situation, fights take place at 30m range or melee range. I use HS at both. It paces my ammo usage and provides good damage. And like a bad smell it's always there.

 

- EXPLOSIVE ROUND: The other half of my bread-and-butter spam rotation at range along with Hammer Shot.

 

- FULL AUTO: I don't use this very much, to me it's only good for CC on a trash mob if my Sticky Grenade is on cooldown. I'd rather pop off a couple Hammer Shots than one Full Auto. Probably the one skill I wouldn't miss if I didn't have it. Nothing better to replace it right now.

 

- HIGH IMPACT BOLT: I use HIB as a starter after a grenade or later in a fight whenever it's off cooldown and activated. Nice big ranged hit. I'll use it up close too whenever I can.

 

- GRENADES: We have three grenades, Sticky Grenade is a great fight starter for both trash mobs, which it stuns and allows an HIB shot, and bosses, because of its damage and the ability to knock down all nearby trash mobs. I use Sticky early and often, throughout a long fight whenever it's off cooldown. Cyro Grenade is great on bosses (or trash mobs after Sticky). It CC's them a bit and allows a HIB shot. I use Cyro throughout a fight as soon as it's off cooldown, especially when fighting multiple tough mobs and keep them locked down as much as possible. Smoke Grenade is great when tanking a boss or multiple mobs. It lowers their damage output and is another reason to fight up close. Keep the smoke at your feet as much as possible.

 

- EXPLOSIVE SURGE: I think of this as a defensive skill, it does some damage but most useful is the Static Field it generates that lowers the damage output of nearby mobs.

 

- ION PULSE: This is part of my up-close bread and butter rotation including Hammer Shot (yes Hammer Shot). It doesn't do a great deal of damage but it generates the Static Field.

 

- PULSE CANNON: This baby is a great up-close AoE damage dealer and I use it as soon as it's off cooldown. I'll use it on a single target too.

 

- STOCK STRIKE: This does nice up-close damage and triggers your Ion Cell. I watch for it to go off cooldown and use it whenever I can.

 

- BLITZ: This is the only combat skill that I plan to use that I don't have yet, so I can't comment on it. I hope to use it like a slower Stock Strike as a big-hit up-close DPS skill.

 

- REACTIVE SHIELD: I will pop this when I feel I'm in danger or about to get tagged by a big mob. It doesn't make us invulnerable but does help some.

 

- TENACITY: Removes incapacitating effects from mobs. I use this all the time, although I question it's usefulness because I haven't encountered a CC hit yet that lasts very long. Maybe at higher levels it will come in handy.

 

- RIOT STRIKE: I have Riot Strike on my bar in place of Neural Surge until I get it. I have used RS occasionally but it doesn't seem very useful. But there is a lot of game left between 30 and 50 and beyond. In other games my interrupts were always a key part of my skill set. I'm sure that will be the case here as well. My thinking is that Neural Surge will be my interrupt but I can't comment on that yet.

 

- MORTAR VOLLEY; Great fight starter and I also use it during a fight if I have an easy target at range and feel I have time to mess with it. Does nice AoE damage and knocks down mobs.

 

POSITIONING: Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. We are better up close, not fighting at range. The reason is that we have AoE skills that reduce mobs damage output that are effective only at close range (5m). These are Explosive Surge (and Ion Pulse single target) and Smoke Grenade. Also, even though our primary job is not to generate DPS, our highest damage dealing skills are close range skills (Pulse Cannon, Stock Strike, Blitz). This is good because in most other games typically the tank runs forward, drawing aggro from all the mobs in a group, rounds them up so that the DPS players can make the most effective use of their AoE DPS skills, and lets the mobs wail away while the DPS kills them and the healer helps keep the tank alive. That is still an effective basic concept here, but the unique twist in this game is that we will find ourselves facing ranged mobs that won't run to us when we aggro them. I look at this as a fresh challenge as a tank. Also the fact that fights in this game are fast and furious makes for a great adrenalin-rush tanking experience where you have to think and act fast. Heck, in some other games like LOTRO I could round up all the mobs, get a big aggro lead, and go make a sandwich in a boss fight while my fellowship burned down mobs. No way you can do that here. I love it. So how do you round up mobs when they stay spread out and just fire at you? If you are fighting all ranged mobs - if you have a person with a good CC in your group, like a Commando's Sleep, CC one mob, run or Storm to one, and use Harpoon to pull a loose mob to you. That gets one locked down and two rounded up that you can kill first. Then finish off the CC'd mob. Sometimes the best you can do is round up two mobs. Of course if the fight is long enough Harpoon can be used again. If you are fighting a mix of melees and ranged mobs, you know the melees will charge you and this gets easier, run to a ranged mob, the melees will follow, and 'poon any loose ranged mobs to you. Be aware that if you are just burning through trash mobs, they usually don't live long enough to go through rounding them up, these kind of run-and-gun fights happen at range and you probably won't even act like a tank, you're just additional DPS. I guess the bottom line is that in most fights your job is to get close, round up as many mobs as you can on you, keep all the loose (not CC'd) mobs aggroed on you, make sure you keep Static Field up and stay alive, and do as much DPS as you can as well.

 

SKILL ROTATIONS: Basically I have two rotations and they are simple, at range I spam Hammer Shot/Explosive Round and hit HIB when possible, up close I spam Hammer Shot/Ion Pulse and hit Stock Strike, Pulse Cannon, Smoke Grenade, Explosive Surge as soon as they come off cooldowns. I will also throw Cyro and Sticky Grenades when they come off cooldown from any range.

 

STARTERS/TACTICS: Tactics change depending on situation and we will adjust accordingly. We always have a plan. But when plans break down your instincts have to get you through. What I start a fight with depends on the situation and what we're fighting. And of course what the group leader directs me to do. The tank CAN lead a group but usually the tank is too busy and too much in the thick of the fighting to lead effectively. The same is true of your healer and the best group leaders in my opinion are a pure CC class, followed by a ranged DPS class. They can watch and direct the entire fight much better. Even though you are our front when the group is moving, you take your direction from the group leader. Tanks need to be aggressive and fearless by nature but not reckless. Don't be an idiot and get your group killed by charging into a fight without a plan for that fight, or at least a pre-determined plan of how to approach fights. Heal yourself during and after fights, the healer is there to HELP heal everyone and not to save you medpac costs. Watch everyone's health and status and don't go running into a fight until they are ready as well.

 

- TRASH MOBS: I like to hit them with Mortar Volley and at the same time have Jorgan use his Grenade. Mop up with Hammer Shot/Explosive Round. If they are more spread out or if Mortar is on cooldown I'll use Sticky Grenade/HIB and spam Hammer Shot/Explosive Round. If any run to me it's my up-close skills. Sometimes I'll Harpoon one in and Pulse Cannon them but this type of easy fighting is no big deal.

 

- TOUGHER MOBS: If we are in a Heroic or the mob group includes one or more tougher types we'll usually CC one, Mortar or Sticky/HIB the trash mobs, Cyro the boss and kill him last. The tougher the mobs are the more I will go into full-on tank mode and run in, round em up and tank em. If there is a person along with CC skills this is a good place to use them.

 

- BOSS FIGHTS: One way to fight a boss is to CC the boss, kill the trash and then kill the boss last. If the boss is CC immune, CC a trash, Vanguard tank the boss while DPS kills loose trash and then CC'd trash, then kill the boss. Typically you want to kill the trash first because you want to reduce the total amount of mob damage output as quickly as possible. A good group leader (preferably not you) will designate CC targets, DPS targets and tank targets (target marking and voice chat are your friends) and direct the fight. If you are in over your head, not geared up well, fighting over level, doing a Heroic 4 with 2 people, etc, sometimes you will simply not have enough DPS firepower in the group or staying power in you to be successful. BUT I see way too many people, tanks included, who whine and complain and lfg because they are afraid a fight is going to be too hard. You are tougher than you think, at least TRY a fight ferchrissake and find a way to win.

 

TL;DR: Playing a Vanguard in SWTOR is an absolute blast and although I don't want to rush leveling to 50, I cannot WAIT until then to see how my character develops. Maybe at 40 or 50 I'll toss out another two cents' worth and compare to what I was thinking at 30. VANGUARD FTW!

Edited January 12, 2012 by Gustomucho

[rikkilambo]

To OP:

 

Congratulations! You have just been promoted from Captain Obvious to Major Obvious.