Let's talk knockback, where is the balance?

[TwoHearted]

So anyone who has played a marauder in Huttball, Voidstar, The False Emperor FP should be able to relate to this. We need a knockback!

 

I had a thread or two about this pre-launch and everyone told me, "don't worry", "It will be fine", "You will have abilities to balance it"... Well the game is here and it isn't balanced.

 

Force charge to a target, get insta knocked down. Trying to cross a bridge in the Voidstar, nope 1 shotted by a knockback. World PvPing near a ledge, 1 shotted.

 

This is not ok! The game needs to be balanced. Allowing some classes 1-shot capability and others not makes no sense to me. I agree our DPS seems to be pretty well balanced with a sorcs and BHs, but these classes also get sprints, CC, knockback... where is the balance? We have force charge you say? So does the jugg, they have comparable DPS and a knockback. Sorcs have ranged DPS, CC, sprints, pulls, knockbacks... they are like the ultimate utility class. Again, where is the balance?

 

The real thorn in my side was when I completed The False Emperor FP. GUESS WHAT! You need a knock back to complete it. I mean ***? Now we have gone from a minor PvP balance issue to an across the board PvE/PvP problem. I was litterally told to go stand in the corner at the end of the fight. Guess how often my guild mates 1-shot mobs off ledges in FPs? Almost every pull!

 

Please Georg, balance us. I don't want to feel gimped for rolling a Marauder.

Edited January 11, 2012 by TwoHearted

[Hizoka]

no-one who plays a MELEE CLASS should want to open a gap for someone...

 

 

and if you want every class to basically have the same abilities go play WoW. Good players like the fact that not everything is the same.

[spne]

no-one who plays a MELEE CLASS should want to open a gap for someone...

 

 

and if you want every class to basically have the same abilities go play WoW. Good players like the fact that not everything is the same.

 

They are thinking about giving Juggies a free Force Charge after Force Pushes.

[TwoHearted]

no-one who plays a MELEE CLASS should want to open a gap for someone...

 

 

and if you want every class to basically have the same abilities go play WoW. Good players like the fact that not everything is the same.

 

Did you read what I wrote? I don't want to push someone back in an open field, I want to push them off ledges like they do to me.

 

Also I am talking about a balance issue where that half the classes are superior over the rest that is also present in PvE encounters. Not sure why that deserves a "go back to WoW"?

 

I quit WoW 2 years ago for the record.

Edited January 11, 2012 by TwoHearted

[zoranporan]

Force charge to a target, get insta knocked down. Trying to cross a bridge in the Voidstar, nope 1 shotted by a knockback. World PvPing near a ledge, 1 shotted.

 

Expect knockback, and be situational about it, never ever in this game have your back towards a ledge where ever you are; if your lucky and time it right you can also manage to time knockback to your advantage; turn your back towards the players thats about to knock you back to only end up in front of him (needs timing and a bit of luck with the delays).

 

 

The real thorn in my side was when I completed The False Emperor FP. GUESS WHAT! You need a knock back to complete it. I mean ***? Now we have gone from a minor PvP balance issue to an across the board PvE/PvP problem. I was litterally told to go stand in the corner at the end of the fight. Guess how often my guild mates 1-shot mobs off ledges in FPs? Almost every pull!

 

On TFE i agree, i find it retarded aswell that to kill him you need to knock him of the ledge, stupid mechanic; but seems that one of the devs thought id would be cool to replicate the death scene of the emperor form episode VI.

 

Knocking mobs off ledges in ops/fp's i see as an advantage; less trash to clear.

 

Please Georg, balance us. I don't want to feel gimped for rolling a Marauder.

 

Not gimped, we just have to use the tools we have to our advantage, think out of the box

[Zerosyko]

 

This is not ok! The game needs to be balanced.

 

I agree our DPS seems to be pretty well balanced with a sorcs and BHs, but these classes also get sprints, CC, knockback... where is the balance? We have force charge you say? So does the jugg, they have comparable DPS and a knockback.

 

 

We have Stealth that can make you immune to damage if specced into, a 99% damage reduction, bleeds that can heal you if specced into, Droid CC, charge as you mentioned...

 

Our class also has a 15% damage increase CD, and a 50% run speed CD.

 

Every class has pros and cons. We don't need a knockback to be balanced. Using WoW as an example and counter to your False Emperor argument, that's like a person saying a melee class should be able to hit Onyxia in the air because ranged can. Different classes bring different utility.

[Shadinaxx]

I can relate and sympathise.. but ya know? I laugh so hard in false emp, my guildies practice tossing robots off the edge on the way up, and sometimes... they do it to the mob I hit charge on just a tad too late an I force charge into the open air... and die. fml, lol

 

Jokes aside, I'd rather see a diminishing return on knockbacks, in huttball, not a day goes by that I dont get bounced around like a used droid core at a jawa flea market. I think I counted 8 knockbacks without touching teh ground once.

 

I'm actually OK with not having a knockback, just give us a chance to resist it entirally (like a 70% chance if our rage is above 6)

[spne]

It's so easy to predict when they are trying to knock you back.

But i believe that Marauders needs a Talent like Juggies got: After a charge you can't get CCed for 4-5 secs.

[Shadinaxx]

It's so easy to predict when they are trying to knock you back.

But i believe that Marauders needs a Talent like Juggies got: After a charge you can't get CCed for 4-5 secs.

 

This, or mine where you have a high chance to resist when you have more than 50% rage

[zoranporan]

should save charge for after the knockback really, but then again its pretty inevitable when the opposing team is about to score, and you need to get up on that ledge fast to stop him; i tunnel ball carriers in huttball; getting train knocked around like a dummy is pretty annoying; but its not as annoying as it is for classes that don't have charge.

 

ive also experienced that you can "bug" knockback by jumping up right before it hits, can't really confirm this tho!

 

but really, we should be discussing experiences and how we can counter it now, instead of qq about it. its not gonna change over nite, so better be constructive about it and talk migation.

[TwoHearted]

Expect knockback, and be situational about it, never ever in this game have your back towards a ledge where ever you are; if your lucky and time it right you can also manage to time knockback to your advantage; turn your back towards the players thats about to knock you back to only end up in front of him (needs timing and a bit of luck with the delays).

 

 

 

 

On TFE i agree, i find it retarded aswell that to kill him you need to knock him of the ledge, stupid mechanic; but seems that one of the devs thought id would be cool to replicate the death scene of the emperor form episode VI.

 

Knocking mobs off ledges in ops/fp's i see as an advantage; less trash to clear.

 

 

 

Not gimped, we just have to use the tools we have to our advantage, think out of the box

 

I understand we have to be smart about ledge positioning etc. etc, that is what I am doing now. Why is it ok for half the classes to not have to worry about this? I am asking for balance.

[TwoHearted]

Ok we have other tools, blah blah... What about the PvE aspects of this? My only job in a group is to do damage. I do that well, but if you stack up a sorcs or BH DPS plus the amount of health of all the freaking elite robots they are lolknocking off the ledges, their DPS and usefulness is far superior.

[mrHaterade]

I like both (anti cc talent and resistance). At the very least knockback should be partially resistible. For example, some mobs are only knocked back a foot or two. So obviously the mechanic is in the code, just apply it to us as well.

 

Ideally, I'd like to see a skill/talent that would AoE stun/knockback everyone but the target. I've been taking some time off my marauder to lvl my new assassin, and I can take groups of up to five mobs and still have at least half my health left. Between the AoE knockback + stun, main stun, dmg stun, and stealth, I'm feeling a lot more marauding in my lightly armored assassin.

Edited January 11, 2012 by mrHaterade

[EasymodeX]

So anyone who has played a marauder in Huttball, Voidstar, The False Emperor FP should be able to relate to this. We need a knockback!

 

No. Marauders don't need a knockback. Marauders need resolve to:

 

1. Work in the first place.

 

2. Build a significant amount of resolve from knockbacks. Currently they add a sliver of resolve.

[TwoHearted]

Hi easy! Haven't seen you since pre-launch, I haven't been on here much.

 

So you see no issues in PvE or PvP not having knock back? I gave some good examples even in PvE.

Edited January 11, 2012 by TwoHearted

[jellOfish]

No. Marauders don't need a knockback. Marauders need resolve to:

 

1. Work in the first place.

 

2. Build a significant amount of resolve from knockbacks. Currently they add a sliver of resolve.

 

Resolve should also be depleted only while you are in combat. It's silly that I finally get my resolve bar filled, then get killed and it depletes while I am waiting behind the safe zone shield.

[EasymodeX]

So you see no issues in PvE or PvP not having knock back? I gave some good examples even in PvE.

 

 

The only PvE issue for a knockback is fight-specific gimmicks like False Emp.

 

It has no real relevance.

 

 

On the PvP side, Marauders straight don't need a knockback. It's nice-to-have because random CC is always nice to have, but the only reason Marauders are fixated on it is because they hate the fire trap and want some of that action themselves. I'm sure other classes would **** their pants to get Undying Rage or Force Camo, but it's not happening.

 

In terms of actual value for the Marauder, the only reason you really want the KB is for Huttball to knock people off. One specific ability for one gimmick map. You don't really care about a superfluous knockback for Alderaan or Voidstar (well, Voidstar a little because that bridge can be mighty entertaining). You won't care about it in a new Warzone unless they whore vertical terrain like Huttball or have random pits.

 

You may as well ask for a stun, or a root, or another force leap, or a sprint button. They all add more value to the class (except on Huttball).

 

 

It's all a bunch of "wanting" when the real problem is not the CC that a Marauder can put out -- Marauders have a pretty good advantage across the board in raw damage x durability, making up for the slightly underpar array of CC. The problem is the bugged CC mechanics atm causing a huge reduction in Marauder contact time (nevermind the other UI issues).

[mrHaterade]

The only PvE issue for a knockback is fight-specific gimmicks like False Emp.

 

It has no real relevance.

In your opinion, maybe. To me it makes perfect sense, and seems like something a marauder would do based on the class description. You jump into a fight to kill some prissy Jedi and three lowly troopers rush in to aid him. You pop your skill to toss off and stun the trash so you can focus on the only target worthy of your blade.

 

Honestly, it seems like a massive oversight to not have this for both PvE and PvP. Based on our max of medium armor and no defense buffs like Dark Charge for an Assassin, an /add knockback wouldn't even be a buff. It'd be a "Sorry, fellas, we forgot to turn on this ability."

Edited January 11, 2012 by mrHaterade

[EasymodeX]

Let me know when Assassins get Cloak of Pain, Undying Rage, Obfuscate, etc.

 

You jump into a fight to kill some prissy Jedi and three lowly troopers rush in to aid him. You pop your skill to toss off and stun the trash so you can focus on the only target worthy of your blade.

 

Hello Intimidating Roar.

 

Relax.

Edited January 11, 2012 by EasymodeX

[mrHaterade]

Hello Intimidating Roar.

Doesn't knock back. Doesn't affect droids. Regarding obfuscate and cloak of pain, let me know when we get force lightning and maul.

Edited January 11, 2012 by mrHaterade

[EasymodeX]

Doesn't knock back. Doesn't affect droids. Regarding obfuscate and cloak of pain, let me know when we get force lightning and maul.

 

Who needs a knockback when they are mezzed for 6 seconds?

 

Also, Disable Droid for 1m plzkthx.

 

 

With an additional: wow, you're going to somehow equate a generic damage channel ability with a 1 minute miss debuff?

 

Stop reaching so hard bro. If you want lightning and backstab so bad, roll an Assassin? It's not like it was any secret that they had those abilities.

[salutations]

I totally agree with the OP. We need a solid push-back for balancing purposes/lore/versatility. I can do without unlimited stuns like other classes but the no push-back seems entirely imbalanced in PvP and PvE.

[Shadinaxx]

I totally agree with the OP. We need a solid push-back for balancing purposes/lore/versatility. I can do without unlimited stuns like other classes but the no push-back seems entirely imbalanced in PvP and PvE.

 

I disagree, from a lore perspective, the marauder isnt about pushing anything away, it's about closing the distance and mobility. The only reason I see any marauder wanting knockbacks, is because of envy an the "well, every other class gets it". I would MUCH rather see a knockback resistance, and/or ravage being able to knock your opponant onto the ground, similer to how operative/smuggelers can knock people on the ground

 

Edit: adding that I have a hard enough time staying on classes that have immunity to snares + speed boosts, the last thing I wanna do is knock them away from me, lol

Edited January 11, 2012 by Shadinaxx

[TwoHearted]

Easy makes some good points, we do have some things other would want also.

 

The whole knocking mobs off ledges still annoys me though. We literally do this every other pull. By a simple numbers comparison this puts knock back classes way ahead of our DPS and we are a pure DPS class.

[Blost]

I disagree, from a lore perspective, the marauder isnt about pushing anything away, it's about closing the distance and mobility. The only reason I see any marauder wanting knockbacks, is because of envy an the "well, every other class gets it". I would MUCH rather see a knockback resistance, and/or ravage being able to knock your opponant onto the ground, similer to how operative/smuggelers can knock people on the ground

 

Edit: adding that I have a hard enough time staying on classes that have immunity to snares + speed boosts, the last thing I wanna do is knock them away from me, lol

 

 

It's a perfectly valid lore reason, this is one of the first-learned abilities of every jedi/sith. Have you not seen it used in a lot of the marauder cutscenes in-game?

 

Staying on your target does suck with all the cc spammed at us but you wouldn't use a knockback on your main target unless it was to blast them over a bottomless put. Otherwise you'd use it on a secondary target to buy some breathing room/interrupt an ability.