Marauder... Dont make one

[Takarazuka]

I play carnage cause i like the mechanics of how it works more than i like rage. Is it ok if i complain because my tree is -in fact- useless?

 

nobody ever answered my question - why do I have to play rage to pvp, and is this good game design? Why is it that you can faceroll with the greatest of ease while tons of other people cant fight their way past their comatose grandmother? Am I to believe everyone but the 5% elite are too inept to play the class? Im keeping track of the scoreboards, 5% really is about the number of marauders who actually manage to perform better than 3/4 people in the warzone by any margin.

 

My sniper is always at the top of that list at 26 and I que with 50s against 50s, so Im clearly not too inept to play that class. What gives?

 

Most people run rage in PVP due to the aoe from Smash and the slow/dot from Force Crush. Using Obliterate, you get a free insta-crit Smash as well and increases your movement speed which is great in pvp. You also have talents for healing after breaking cc (10% max health) and several crit-increasing talents.

[mylefthand]

Most people run rage in PVP due to the aoe from Smash and the slow/dot from Force Crush. Using Obliterate, you get a free insta-crit Smash as well and increases your movement speed which is great in pvp. You also have talents for healing after breaking cc (10% max health) and several crit-increasing talents.

 

I understand why many people play it, I just dont understand why I seemingly *must* play it (*with a few notable exceptions who have l2p tattooed into their chest). Carnage seems like it should also be a pvp spec, considering i can put 4 points into talents that do nothing but snare which is useless in pve, I have a 15% movement speed buff which doesnt work out of combat, 15% aoe damage reduction, and I also get that 10% max health heal (granted i have to be at least lvl 45 to get it). I also have an auto crit force scream with 30% crit damage buff that should be hitting a single target a hell of a lot harder than your smash...but that doesnt seem to case.

 

I have this terrible sneaking suspicion that marauders need a slight buff and carnage needs a major revamp, but at least it would explain why so many people are having a hard time. I dont know if this is actually the case though. I do know Im forced to use every defensive cooldown when fighting elites, use them intelligently so i still get hit and keep up my CoP, and typically use a pot, and I still have a decent chance of dying. With my sniper i usually forget to use defensive stuff cause its never needed. Using this anecdote, im struggling to see how rage could possible do much better in pve, but if your fine in pvp then maybe it doesnt matter

[Takarazuka]

I understand why many people play it, I just dont understand why I seemingly *must* play it (*with a few notable exceptions who have l2p tattooed into their chest). Carnage seems like it should also be a pvp spec, considering i can put 4 points into talents that do nothing but snare which is useless in pve, I have a 15% movement speed buff which doesnt work out of combat, 15% aoe damage reduction, and I also get that 10% max health heal (granted i have to be at least lvl 45 to get it). I also have an auto crit force scream with 30% crit damage buff that should be hitting a single target a hell of a lot harder than your smash...but that doesnt seem to case.

 

I have this terrible sneaking suspicion that marauders need a slight buff and carnage needs a major revamp, but at least it would explain why so many people are having a hard time. I dont know if this is actually the case though. I do know Im forced to use every defensive cooldown when fighting elites, use them intelligently so i still get hit and keep up my CoP, and typically use a pot, and I still have a decent chance of dying. With my sniper i usually forget to use defensive stuff cause its never needed. Using this anecdote, im struggling to see how rage could possible do much better in pve, but if your fine in pvp then maybe it doesnt matter

 

Honestly, I don't think it matters. I was running Carnage for a long time (I am level 41 right now) and did okay in PVP. I am not an amazing player by any means in PVP, but it worked well enough. I switched to Anni last night, but haven't tested it out. Each spec has some good talents for pve and pvp. Those people that say Rage is better might be better at playing that than the other specs... whereas someone who says Anni is better just might be better at that spec. There is no way to really tell since everyone has their own opinions and points-of-view on what works and what doesn't. I would suggest just playing the style you enjoy playing. If you're not in the top 3 in a warzone... so what? Unless you are extremely competitive, then it really doesn't matter. I may get my butt handed to me, and I may not be the "right" spec for pvp... but I have fun regardless.

[EasymodeX]

Carnage seems like it should also be a pvp spec,

 

Carnage is "ok" but it's not good for a pug vs. pug or pug vs. premade metagame.

 

It needs a few fringe buffs to make it more potent for the situations where it should be potent.

[Drathmar]

Most people run rage in PVP due to the aoe from Smash and the slow/dot from Force Crush. Using Obliterate, you get a free insta-crit Smash as well and increases your movement speed which is great in pvp. You also have talents for healing after breaking cc (10% max health) and several crit-increasing talents.

 

Whats funny is most marauders I see are running annihilation.

[Takarazuka]

Whats funny is most marauders I see are running annihilation.

 

Prolly just my weird server.... I see a lot of Rage marauders running around. Annihilation does seem to be the favored though according to the forums, but I do see people touting Rage as really viable. Play what you enjoy the most I guess.

[deth_]

It's pretty simple really.

 

The Marauder requires more units of input per unit of productivity; the equivalent of an inefficient system. While the class may be more complex and challenging to master, the results do not justify the effort. I enjoy playing my Marauder, but do I constantly want to be at a disadvantage versus more powerful classes (operatives, bounty hunters, inquisitors)?

 

At some point it gets old.

 

What is BioWare's vision for the Marauder? Do they wan't a class that's harder to play, but mediocre in productivity? Or do they want to properly reward a player that is willing and able to take the challenge. I prefer the latter.

 

It's already been acknowledged by the developers that some changes need to be made. I'm just curious how for they are willing to go.

 

BTW, I don't have a problem killing random baddies or decent players. The issue comes up when you end up running into a similarly or well geared opponent who is just as skilled, playing a more powerful/versatile/balanced/whatever class. They have the advantage from the get-go. Class advantage.

 

*NOTE* My comments are focused on the PvP.

[verziehenone]

Here's the problem I see with this class, and those who are reviewing it's playability.

 

This game cannot be balanced around the elite 5% who are able to utterly and inexplicably faceroll everyone in PvP apparently.

 

This game needs to be balanced around the average user, who currently is able to play the other classes reasonably well, and reasonbly effectively.

 

I currently play the Rage spec, and have had absolutely zero difficulty killing while questing (partly due to Vette i'm sure), but when I go to PvP, I struggle constantly to kill people. I am able to pull away with 5ish badges on average, but it's difficult to feel like i'm equal with others.

 

I played a Cat Druid in WoW, very effectively managing the extremely complex rotation for highly effective DPS. It took awhile to master, but I was able to, and did quite well in DPS. I also played my Druid as a Healer, so I did the same rotation management with the HoTs, also taking time to learn it, and doing well at it.

 

So it's not an issue of familiarity with rotation management or Rage management, but that this class is currently difficult to play. I do enjoy it, and have no intention of quitting playing it, but I may have to stop PvPing for awhile. It's just downright frustrating how hard it can be to kill others.

 

Case in Point: You speak much of the kapwning power of Smash. To get the 4 stack from either Force Choke or Force Crush, and/or the Crit from Obliterate and/or timing Trinkets ... and then smash someone effectively ... well, wow, I just did 3,000 damage (if lucky/crit), and they still have ... 80% of their health. I then have to wait on cooldowns while they utterly destroy me, or I can run away while (you guessed it) they utterly destroy me.

 

This is why I almost never get the 25 kills badge, and why many are saying it is a difficult class to master. In PvP, this cass needs help. I'm glad that BioWare is at least recognizing this and making some alterations to help, and this thread has helped confirm my suspicions of how difficult this class can be to be decent at.

[squitsquat]

The Marauder does need a buff. For being the "hardest/most complex" class to play our damage is piss poor.

 

Why can a Sniper take out 70% of your health in 2 hits yet we have to go through this giant cycle of skills just to start even pumping out any damage, why do we only have 1-2 reliable defensive skills?

 

If we are indeed the hardest class to play, we need to actually be rewarded for that, a marauder should be able to single handedly carry his team in a warzone when played to his highest potential.

 

Every other class is easier to play yet does more damage than us. How come we don't get any 6k crits for using our entire rotation, why do we HAVE to go into Rage to put out any burst. We have to use multiple skills, multiple times to do damage yet almost every other class can use one or two skills and deal twice as much damage.

 

So ok, maybe we don't have high damage, maybe we have good tankiness. Oh wait, no, being focused by more than one person is gonna get us killed. "But what about our 3-4 defensive cooldowns?!?!" Oh you mean how we only have 1 MAYBE 2 reliable cooldowns.

 

Saber ward is on a 3 minute cooldown so you can scratch that.

 

Undying rage is on a 90 second cooldown so you can scratch that too.

 

Force Camo is on a 45 second cooldown so it is pretty reliable but since every class has either a) Huge Range or b) some gigantic leap, unless we find some nifty little hiding spot they can simply get right back ontop of us.

 

CoP has either a 1 minute to 30 second cooldown so it is also relatively reliable.

 

Ok well, maybe we have good CC since we have sub par damage and survival. Oh wait, no again

 

We have a 2-3 second snare which is decent and Crippling slash. With the god awful input delay and bugs, Force choke doesn't actually do anything and our disrupt is a pain to time correctly, also to get Force Crush we HAVE to go into Rage.

 

So for being the hardest class to play we get:

Piss Poor damage for the required effort

No real reliable defensive cooldowns

Minimal CC

Edited January 12, 2012 by squitsquat

[Gorstog]

 

Everyone can easily get the better of a marauder. Juggs take longer 'cause they have more CD's to power through, but whoop dee doo; I'm more intimidated by a sorc's shield bubble than your CD's that I can ignore most of with most of my attacks anyway.

 

 

This is the one that pisses me off. I will chain stun your class (And even Sorcs) and throw in 3-4 interrupts during that chain stun sequence to prevent any left>right casts. Will pound on your for 1-2 minutes and ultimately at the end your class is full health and I am dead.

 

Gotta love Jugs.

[ibervang]

I just died to 3 strong mobs, that where 6 levels lower then me. And i used my def skills. I tried to focos on a different one, I got that one, and died again, even though i just Focus of the force. In the end i managed to get them. At the 3 attempt. Some of my guild mates, also say they laugh at the class in PvP.

 

And why do they have to use their companion for their best Def ability. In the end game, you will proberly never have your companion out. Ops, PvP. etc

[Eltohan]

I've been saying this for the longest time. The class is such a joke...It's not even that hard to play. Unless needing to be over geared for content is being hard.

 

You should try harder.

 

/facepalm

Edited January 12, 2012 by Eltohan

[manlytears]

 

1) Not targeted

2) Being guarded

3) Being healed

 

Troll 0/10

[Elementius]

http://www.youtube.com/clinda

 

Marauders are definitely underpowered.

[ShwagATK]

heres the fix bioware! just buff our burst output by 200% and ill completely forget about the fact that we have no cc or utility. i wanna kill someone before i get pushed off the catwalks. KTHXLUVYEW :D

[NeoOsiris]

Okay, bye then. You won't be missed here on the marauder boards lol.

[FeeFiFoFum]

/facepalm

 

Did you not read anything that I posted earlier?

 

Sorry, dont have all day to read the many walls of texts here. Marauders right now are a mountain of fun pve (storyline). PvP just plain frustrating, that's it. Even with everything nicely keybound, i have to look to see if it actually went off because in all likely hood, your skills did not. If I could switch to jugg this second I would, in a heart beat. Scratch that, if I could roll a dice and randomly be assigned any other class, I would do that.

[Ravoc]

only problem i have with marauders is they so squishy i die so quick, love the dps they do hate their def Edited January 14, 2012 by Ravoc

[Valorheart]

ok nice video and all but it still doesnt fix the ravage thing, the cc thing, the heal thing. most of the kills by that marauder were when she wasn't targeted at all. that makes pvp really easy when youre not being targeted.

 

Ravage is broke for Juggs as well. there are many times that i hit ravage and it channles but wont do any damg,and most of the time ill have to keep spamming it just to get it to work right.From what ive seen is that if you are to close to the target it does that so what i do is back up a lil and recast it.The only problem with that is in PvP ppl dont stand around for it so i stun them then hope im not to close when i use it. Ive sent in tickets about it and about how alot of the channled abilitys are buged like SI channle lightning spell how it just keeps shooting at them even after they are dead

[Stigas]

I think that my 50 merc facerolls marauders like they're made out of cheese sammiches and he's a fat kid with four arms and a love for cheese sammiches.

 

I think that my 50 merc, being arsenal, can burst you into the floor if I'm willing to deal with pop vent heat...or just kite you, 'cause I'll be holding my jetpack in reserve just for you if you force leap me.

 

G'head, fus roh dah me and I'll show you how ranged DPS is done. Fusion missle, couple of fire dots, pop my energy barrier when you wind up for ravage and set the heal to charging. When you're done, you'll have seen my HP bar move and then go right back, 'cause my crit/surge is enormous, and my self heals easily crit over 4k 38% of the time.

 

 

I do it all the time. All. the. Time. Your class is broken and you're giving bad advice to someone with a legitimate complaint; it should not be this easy for me to run around a WZ and just cherry pick warriors and guardians to just ...choose my own adventure in how high I want my killcount to be this session.

 

Assassins and consular, now there are some hard targets. They got toolboxes, and they're a wild ride when they're played by someone that knows how to use them.

 

Agents popping me for 6k with knockdown and another 2k+2k before I even get up? Beastly; good stuff. I gotta work to take them down.

 

Sorcs? They've got a functionally deeper pool of their resource to 'mana dump' with than I do, and their shield bubble is wicked, but ya know, there's nothing quite so gratifying as when a sorc knocks me back and gets it wrong...and then I jet burst -them- into the acid or fire and electro dart them.

 

It's like beating them at their own game.

 

But warriors..warriors got nothin'. You only 'dominate' against people that can't playe their class. Anything else played skillfully will eat you, sometimes in several different ways to the none you bring to the table.

 

It's not your fault. It's the designers' fault for apparently deciding that melee DPS and even melee tanking were just gonna be the class architectures they dropped the ball bad and hard on with release.

 

Dunno how it got through beta like that. I was in several phases of beta; it was a known thing. None of this is new.

 

I reckon they wanted more data before editing classes and waited to see how the first few months of live added to the picture, but that's just me rationalizing in the hope that they're acknowledging the problem at all.

 

Still, don't tell people that marauders can be awesome if they just do it right; everything sucks if you do it -wrong-. Do anything right, and anything is better than a marauder.

 

That's just the way it is. Have fun with it if you can, but be honest about the state of things. Or they don't get fixed.

 

 

 

WHOA WHOA WHOA

 

Hold the train, sir.

 

Are you saying that your Mercenary is able to kill Marauders that don't know what an interrupt is?

 

Holy sh*t man. NO WAY.