Level 41 and struggling - what am I doing wrong?

[Godzillamax]

I'v been playing a Sith Jugg Immortal spec since level 1. I don't PvP, just PvE. I enjoy being a tank and spend 70% of my time questing (to level up) and the rest running flashpoints. In the flashpoints I have no issues tanking and have a great time and have found myself being added to many other player's friends list to look up when they want a tank.

 

Prior to coming to Hoth I was doing just fine, but that was probably because I like questing and tend to do almost all the quests on a world so I would quickly out-level a planet while I was still on it. As such, I was typically 2-3 levels above the mobs I was fighting (they were green to me) and life was easy. But now that I am on Hoth I am getting my arse resoundingly handed to me on quests by Strong and Elite mobs that are less than 1 level, or equal level, to me.

 

I can't go up against an elite of equal level to me w/o blowing most my oh $**** cooldowns (Saber Ward and Invincible) and consuming at least 1 medpack. Even then I will typically end the fight with 20-30% health and need to Channel Hatred to recoup health. Against a Strong mob I can fight w/o blowing my cooldowns or consuming a medpack, but I will end the fight at 40%-60% health. Two Strong mobs have about the same result as an elite (slightly easier than the elite, but not by much), where I will need to blow cooldowns and consume a medpack and end the fight around 20%-30% health. A pack of 2-4 regular mobs plus one Strong mob has about the same effect as going up against two Strong mobs.

 

Gear-wise I do a fairly decent job of keeping my gear and mods up to par with my level (I'm have the Artifice crew skill so that helps). I also keep my companion's gear to level. I almost exclusively use Jaesa since she does decent AoE damage and most of what you encounter while questing are packs of between 2-5 linked mobs.

 

My stats are (in Soresu Form):

Level = 41

DEFENSE

Health = 10,710

Armor Rating = 4,845

Damage Reduction = 41.18%

Defense Chance = 18.18%

Shield Chance = 29.86%

Shield Absorption = 20%

 

Melee

Damage (Primary) = 320-409

Damage Bonus = 140.9

Accuracy = 90%

Crit Chance = 16.50%

Crit Multiplier = 56.23%

 

Force

Bonus Damage = 291.6

Crit Chance = 12.33%

Crit Multiplier = 56.23%

 

I prefer Soresu form over Shii-Cho form since the damage mitigation from Soresu form is of far greater benefit (IMO) than the paltry 3% damage reduction and 3% damage output of Shii-Cho form.

 

So what am I doing wrong? I usually start a fight with saber throw immediately followed by Force Charge. This starts me off with 6 rage. I then go right into a Force Scream to pop my Sonic Barrier (damage shield from 5th tier Immortal talent). After that my rotation will vary depending on if it is a single mob versus a pack.

 

I don't feel like I have the mitigation necessary to a tank to offset the low DPS I put out.

 

I'd prefer to stick with Jaesa over Quinn (I like her story line), but if I must go back to Quinn to make leveling my character in the 40+ bracket viable then I will. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Thank you.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Godzillamax

[Lord_Rezo]

Lovely post... i felt the same, i still without knowing "what went wrong", while i was Vengeance spec'ed.

 

The only answer i have found is there is a "wrong scalling" over the jump from Alderaan to Quesh (more or less).

[Reavyn]

I'd pretty much rather stick with Jaesa or Vette over Quinn. But you do need to go back to him.

[zerovex]

I think most people who have leveled Juggs switched to either veng or rage around 40 because of the problems you are describing. The ability to kill the mobs faster becomes more of an asset and the ability to survive a little longer a liability.

[Godzillamax]

Lovely post... i felt the same, i still without knowing "what went wrong", while i was Vengeance spec'ed.

 

The only answer i have found is there is a "wrong scalling" over the jump from Alderaan to Quesh (more or less).

 

I just wanted to add, I'm not complaining that my class is gimped, after all I do very well tanking flashpoints. But when I'm questing/soloing I see Bounty Hunters, Sith Assasins, etc. (basically the DPS classes) tearing through the same mobs as me like a hot knife through butter and then quickly moving on to the next batch of mobs to tear through while I'm struggling to even down one pack of mobs then having to rest post battle. I'm not asking to be a DPS machine like them. If that is what I wanted, then I would have rolled a DPS class, not a tank.

 

But as a tank my expectation is that I will be able to kill slow and steady while taking little damage due to my mitigation. But, the mitigation just doesn't seem to be there and my expectation is not coming to fruition. The DPS classes all have a tank companion that seems to have better mitigation than me, thus allowing the DPS classes to focus on DPS and burn down mobs fast and move on and a steady pace.

 

Sure I have two tank companions as well (Lt Peirce and Broonmark) but what good does it to me as a tank to use a tank companion when my DPS isn't there to burn down the mobs. Its almost as if either my mitigation isn't what it needs to be post level 40 versus level 40+ mobs, or my DPS companion's DPS is just falling behind so that the mitigation I have isn't enough to give me the survivability I need for my DPS companions to burn down mobs fast enough.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Godzillamax

[Kagek]

I think most people who have leveled Juggs switched to either veng or rage around 40 because of the problems you are describing. The ability to kill the mobs faster becomes more of an asset and the ability to survive a little longer a liability.

 

Not true. I had to use Soresu form on some of the storyline bosses as a Vengeance Jugg as in Shien form I was dying way too quickly. The game just gets more and more difficult until you finally get to 50 and start improving through gear.

[thorizdin]

Quinn > All, despite being a whiny *****. I leveled from day 1 as Immortal and I never hit the curve that a lot a of others seem to.

[sylekta]

i am 44, have leveled immortal the whole way

used jaesa since i got her, have been able to take on 2 same level strongs and up to lvl46 elites no problems with her, in one case i took on 3 strongs and let her tank one of them

 

i think you need to get out of the mindset that you cant blow your cooldowns, pretty much roll them when fighting strongs and elites, 3mins isnt much and your OOC heal is your friend, use it after every tough fight and there is very minimal down time.

 

in a typical elite fight for me i enrage, saber throw then charge, scream then crushing blow

then go into normal rotation/priority. depending on the mob, ie if its a caster i keep anything that can interupt out of rotation to be used to interupt spells/heals, and use the 8s cd interupt in between them, and roll my defensive cd's inbetween stuns, usually keeps the mob in lockdown with minimal incoming damage and puts them down easily

 

one thing is, you really need to keep your comps gear up to date, which is really easy once you hit 40, go grind pvp for an hour and you can outfit your comp in full 40 pvp set and get them the 42 pvp weps and they rip shreds

 

i recently swapped back to vette after finishing jaesa's story 10k aff and she actually does better dps then jaesa and is easier to keep out of trouble having her at range

 

 

so TL;DR version

you arnt doing anything wrong, just change your mindset, roll your CD's and use your interupts to best advantage. pay attention to gearing your comp, dont bother with quinn you dont need heals

[zerovex]

Not true. I had to use Soresu form on some of the storyline bosses as a Vengeance Jugg as in Shien form I was dying way too quickly. The game just gets more and more difficult until you finally get to 50 and start improving through gear.

 

That may be true but you are still veng and not immortal. I was talking about trees and not stances. As veng in Soresu form you should still be able to have a greater damage output than an immortal in the balanced form. Most certainly more then an immortal in the defensive stance.

[Lord_Rezo]

I just wanted to add, I'm not complaining that my class is gimped, after all I do very well tanking flashpoints. But when I'm questing/soloing I see Bounty Hunters, Sith Assasins, etc. (basically the DPS classes) tearing through the same mobs as me like a hot knife through butter and then quickly moving on to the next batch of mobs to tear through while I'm struggling to even down one pack of mobs then having to rest post battle. I'm not asking to be a DPS machine like them. If that is what I wanted, then I would have rolled a DPS class, not a tank.

 

But as a tank my expectation is that I will be able to kill slow and steady while taking little damage due to my mitigation. But, the mitigation just doesn't seem to be there and my expectation is not coming to fruition. The DPS classes all have a tank companion that seems to have better mitigation than me, thus allowing the DPS classes to focus on DPS and burn down mobs fast and move on and a steady pace.

 

Sure I have two tank companions as well (Lt Peirce and Broonmark) but what good does it to me as a tank to use a tank companion when my DPS isn't there to burn down the mobs. Its almost as if either my mitigation isn't what it needs to be post level 40 versus level 40+ mobs, or my DPS companion's DPS is just falling behind so that the mitigation I have isn't enough to give me the survivability I need for my DPS companions to burn down mobs fast enough.

 

I think the problem is not the mitigation, a tank is made to "resist alive for the longest time you can" and the DPS is a class that "must do the more damage as he can".

 

Problem is... a DPS can kill "so quickly as he can" and the damage he will have is proportional to the time he let his enemy live, so he is pushed to do all the damage he can. On juggernauts you feel like "hey, i have to push one mob, force choke another, stun two or three weaks with smash, aoe taunt, saber ward... and then... what? what do we do to resist to do smash again.

[omninull]

i am 44, have leveled immortal the whole way

used jaesa since i got her, have been able to take on 2 same level strongs and up to lvl46 elites no problems with her, in one case i took on 3 strongs and let her tank one of them

 

i think you need to get out of the mindset that you cant blow your cooldowns, pretty much roll them when fighting strongs and elites, 3mins isnt much and your OOC heal is your friend, use it after every tough fight and there is very minimal down time.

 

in a typical elite fight for me i enrage, saber throw then charge, scream then crushing blow

then go into normal rotation/priority. depending on the mob, ie if its a caster i keep anything that can interupt out of rotation to be used to interupt spells/heals, and use the 8s cd interupt in between them, and roll my defensive cd's inbetween stuns, usually keeps the mob in lockdown with minimal incoming damage and puts them down easily

 

one thing is, you really need to keep your comps gear up to date, which is really easy once you hit 40, go grind pvp for an hour and you can outfit your comp in full 40 pvp set and get them the 42 pvp weps and they rip shreds

 

i recently swapped back to vette after finishing jaesa's story 10k aff and she actually does better dps then jaesa and is easier to keep out of trouble having her at range

 

 

so TL;DR version

you arnt doing anything wrong, just change your mindset, roll your CD's and use your interupts to best advantage. pay attention to gearing your comp, dont bother with quinn you dont need heals

Taking them on by having to blow your cooldowns isn't taking them on with no problem.

Other classes can take on multiples because they can essentially cc mobs of their choosing for the entire fight until they're ready to deal with them. The longest cc I have is the 6 second aoe stun...

[Lymain]

I can't go up against an elite of equal level to me w/o blowing most my oh $**** cooldowns (Saber Ward and Invincible) and consuming at least 1 medpack. Even then I will typically end the fight with 20-30% health and need to Channel Hatred to recoup health. Against a Strong mob I can fight w/o blowing my cooldowns or consuming a medpack, but I will end the fight at 40%-60% health. Two Strong mobs have about the same result as an elite (slightly easier than the elite, but not by much), where I will need to blow cooldowns and consume a medpack and end the fight around 20%-30% health. A pack of 2-4 regular mobs plus one Strong mob has about the same effect as going up against two Strong mobs.

 

First off, what's bad about blowing 3 minute cooldowns to solo an elite and having to rest afterwards? It's not like you're typically solo'ing elites constantly.

 

Unfortunately, your stats don't mean much to me, since I'm level 50 now and didn't keep track of my stats as I leveled. At 42, I was solo'ing two elites at once with Jaesa (the mobs near the second outpost on Belsavis), but both Jaesa and I were in pretty good gear, mostly the level 40 PvP stuff. The fights were always close, and I used a medpack plus all my cooldowns (except Call on the Force). Are you using Relics? I was using two defensive ones.

 

If you're asking about your rotation, the easiest check is how often you're using Assault. You should be able to almost completely eliminate it from your rotation by about level 35. If you find that you're using it a lot, you could probably tweak your spec/rotation to improve DPS significantly without costing survivability.

[Kagek]

That may be true but you are still veng and not immortal. I was talking about trees and not stances. As veng in Soresu form you should still be able to have a greater damage output than an immortal in the balanced form. Most certainly more then an immortal in the defensive stance.

 

Maybe... I'm getting like no rage in Soresu though. And large part of dps bonuses I get from Vengeance tree require Shien to be active.

[Khoryphos]

Take a look at the skills you are using. You have a few hard hitting situationals that let you take down mobs quickly.

 

I packs with a Silver and normals I send Jaessa after one normal then go after another with with saber throw, force charge, savage kick while hes rooted, then smash (which stuns normals). Then I'll use either Sundering Assault or Pommel Stike while hes stunned depending on remaining health. By that time Jaessa has take her target down. You can Force Scream and Ravage the next normal and it usually kills them. Then beat the snot out of the silver. Force Choke him to lessen the damage and interrupt if you can. You can even mix in a backhand or force push in between to further stun that silver.

 

Two silvers I focus on one and occasionally throw out a force push or choke on the second one to keep him busy while I kill his buddy. You limit the damage you take that way and can always pop saber ward if you want.

 

Against golds I use Quinn and try to interrupt and stun as much as I can. I try to time stuns to interrupt their casting. You can beat golds with a DPS companion but will need to make liberal use of your survival cool-downs.

 

I will say that with so many abilities to use in a fight, a good gaming mouse you can bind macros to really helps. I use a naga and bind a bunch of skills to one key so that they fire when available. That way situational skills like Savage kick and pommel strike fire when the are available to you. They hit hard but often go to waste because they are difficult to manage.

[Face]

I HAVE to use Quinn to level. All of the other companions just end up getting me killed. He and I do fine, but he is my only choice. I am currently level 38.

 

He also seems to want to sleep with me. Really, really bad. Like... more than the droid, bad.

[sylekta]

definately doin it wrong or undergeared if you need to use quinn

[Belbullab]

use your interrupts against elites... you have three... force choke, force push and disruption... these will cancel the windup of the enemy's special attack that does heavy damage. when you see the bar over the mobs stat bar appear and start to move, hit one of those three attacks to stop it and you'll stop their healing/big damage. you need to save these attacks just for these instances.

[Nelledrengen]

Ive been playing Juggernaut since lvl 20, as i read it was quite fun, and as a lvl 48 i still think its very fun (might switch in 50 though) - Anyway, i had no problem what so ever with none of the planets ahead of you. And i've read this kind of post quite much now.

 

Im also using Jaesa as she can be quite useful, instead of having lacking heals from Quinn, which wont even make that much sense when killing a pack because of the doubl/tripple dmg i get. But as 47 i completed my Class-Quests and it was quite easy, compared to you are fighting 32 - 34k guys..

 

And my rotation is a bit like yours. Im using Force Charge - Ravage - and then basic attacks to get rage up to build stuns, chokes etc.

[DarthWhatever]

I feel your pain man. I played a juggernaut immortal to level 50. After I got to 50 and I put him down and I won't play him again until they do a combat adjustment. Melee classes are terrible and SW and Jedi tank classes are at the bottom.

 

I re-rolled a BH and I crush people, don't need any stims or med packs and I own high level SWs in war zones at level 22 so far.

 

Moral of the story - Hang in, roll a ranged class and come back to it later.

[Urinez]

I'm nearly 45 on my Immortal, and I've not had any of the problems that you're listing.

 

Firstly, I use Jaesa instead of Quinn. Why? Simply because of the heals that Quinn have usually have a longer cooldown so he can only assist you in that means every so often. Jaesa, however, will have 100% uptime in her role as DPS.

 

Second, no matter how many mobs, my rotation is usually the same: I start with either a Force Charge or Saber Throw(depending on my mood. If it's a cut-scene where the elite is directly in front of you afterwards, I Force Push, then either charge or Saber Throw+Charge) Force Scream(For Sonic Barrier), Smash(For the 5% accuracy reduction). At this point I move towards a priority system for mobs, keeping Force Scream, Smash, Revenge and Sundering Assault on cd. I only use Crushing Blow to dump excess rage, and I never have to use Assault. Keep the mindset of never reaching 0 Rage and never capping it out(the reasoning is to have the rage available for interrupt/revenge since they do not respect the global cool-down).

 

For packs with Strong mobs, I send Jaesa to kill the weak enemies while I grab the Strong ones. As stated in an earlier post, I also use force push and force choke to provide additional CC. For Elite pulls, I don't need to use a cool-down, but since I'm on a pvp server, I like to just in case I get jumped by pubs.

 

All of my questing experience is from going to planets 1-2 levels lower than recommended (i.e. Belsavis at 38). So most of the mobs I've always faced are higher than me, I've not had the luxury of green mobs in quite a while. I'm not sure what you're using them on, but I use my commendations for mods, not the gear that's available simply because I like the way I look, and it's cheaper. Just make sure to keep your gear as well as your companion's gear up to date, and you should easily be able to take on any task at hand.

 

There is a guide posted about Immortal tanking at 50, I suggest you read it and even-though it's for 50 implement it into your playing, it helped me HEAPS.

[RadricTycho]

Funny I came to this forum to see if others had the same experience that I had, namely that they could solo content higher level as an immortal juggernaut. Yes, I even mean elites.

 

Currently I am level 46 and already I have completed my class quest, solo. I won't discuss what that is so that there is no need for the spoiler alert, but let's just say it requires beating quite a few level 50 elite NPCs. I got to this point because I have been been beating higher level elites since about level 30. Somewhere along the line I stopped doing all the quests on a planet and just moved on.

 

Here are some tips based on my experience:

 

 

• Spec into the Immortal tree and take all that sounds "tankly". Avoid talents that sound like they are primarily for PVP (like Unleashed).
   
  
• Use Jaesa up until Corellia and then switch to Quinn for survivability (or switch now if you are having trouble staying alive). Jaesa is great until the mobs really start hitting you. Make sure to fully equip Quinn with some good healing gear at that transition.
   
  
• Keep all of your equipment, including armoring, mod, hilt, and enhancement modifications, up to date. Using commendations from the planets, you can do this just about every level.
   
  
• Do some PVP to get the easy commendations and use it to buy the level 40 gear, it works just fine for PVE.
   
  
• Be sure to buy whatever gear your companion is missing. (ear, implant, HELMET!, etc.)
   
  
• Stack your stats in this order: Endurance, Strength, Defense, Accuracy. So when choosing which enhancement or mod to buy, let that guide you.
   
  
• USE your cooldowns on elites.
   
  
• Use your crowd control abilities often. My favorite combo is: Push, Throw, Charge, Backhand, Choke. I sprinkle a few damage abilities in there betwen the CC abilities.
   
  
• Always have highest level Stims in your pocket. Usually you get these just from looting stuff anyway. Occaisionally you will need to buy them. Use them as needed when blowing cooldowns on elites or other hard encounters after having used your "free" cooldowns first.
   
  
• Make sure ALL of your companions abilities are enabled. When they first get them, they may not be enabled, especially the AOE ones.
  

 

 

These are just a few tips. Obviously knowing which skills to prioritize, when to use them, when to blow cooldowns, etc. is something you have to master as well and honestly plays even more of a role than the above.

 

My experience is that immortal juggernauts can solo just about any content that is less than 5 levels higher. Having soloed my class quest at level 46 is pretty much proof of that.

[sylekta]

Taking them on by having to blow your cooldowns isn't taking them on with no problem.

Other classes can take on multiples because they can essentially cc mobs of their choosing for the entire fight until they're ready to deal with them. The longest cc I have is the 6 second aoe stun...

 

massive disagree

dont try to compare us to other classes, the point is how do you play a jugg

using your cooldowns is part of your class, its makes a jugg a jugg. it also teaches you how to roll them and learn when to use them for later on when it is important to know if someone is gonna miss an interupt there is gonna be a huge spike in damage so you need to smooth it for your healers

 

if you want a real life metaphor, not using your cooldowns is like driving a manual ferrari and leaving it in first gear, sure you can drive around fine and hit the speed limit fine but YOU ARE DOIN IT WRONG

Edited January 10, 2012 by sylekta

[boba_dan]

Your problem is pretty normal. Warrior-like classes suck to level in most MMOs, and SWTOR is no exception. Gameplay becomes unreasonably hard in the mid 30s onward if you're not using Quinn, and some content that other classes would laugh at is extremely challenging (like 2x strong jedi mob pulls in storyline areas on Corellia and Ilum)

 

Ignore the braggers (like the one a couple posts up) who are likely either leaving out a lot of important context (how many times they've died on the content, how many stims they're buying, how often they're taking 20 minute breaks to use CotF), or are outright just making things up. Its hard, and basically we just have to suck it up until we have gear. Heck, I found a supposedly solo pull on Ilum with 2 strong mobs of a particular type that I simply /could not do/ (not due to damage, but due to their healing and the lack of a long cc).

[Taybul]

That's really just the nature of the class. You're a tank who has tanking skills and choose gear based on tanking abilities. What I wish I had realized much earlier is that you are questing much more than you are tanking flashpoints or group missions (at least I am anyway) but all my gear/mod selection has been based on tanking: taking the 24 str/31 end mod over the 31 str/24 end because my expected role is "to tank". At around your level I stopped doing that; I didn't prioritize endurance over strength anymore or as much. Mods (the component) typically only have str/end on them so I started taking the might version. I'd still take enhancement mods that had DR or even absoption to maintain our expected damage mitigation.

 

Also consider your rotation. On normal mobs it pretty much doesn't matter, but on elites and higher you should care about things like getting that 5 sunder stack up and interrupts. You're 41 so you probably have your 31-pt talent in the immortal tree. Start spending points in one of the other 2 to help bolster your DPS.

 

Other tips: finish off non-elites or have your companion do so before trying to kill off elites. They take a bit longer to kill so during that time a non-elite is just standing there adding damage. Use your 1-min CDs whenever possible and on tougher enemies. By the time you'll need it again it'll most likely be ready again. Use smash whenever possible to keep the 5% hit reduction debuff up.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Taybul

[Tengobotas]

I dont understand. Im the most lazy player ever, been playing immortal since 1 and honestly finish fights with elites at 100% using Quinn. Its one of the few reasons ive stuck with this class while leveling because there isnt anything I cant do.

 

 

Yeah im sick of Quinn too but seriously, does the companion really matter that much?