PVP Video - OPeratives are OP

[Digitallyatomic]

And I'm willing to bet the videos shown will be surprise attacks on people who don't have their CC break up, with their pants down, and probably <80% HP.

 

Because that's idea of the class.

 

Take out / Put pressure on healers / clothies / mediums, vanish and lol.

 

Point me to the game where the Assassin-esque class ISN'T that. Because, you wouldn't be playing an assassin.

 

The fact that the only way you have a fighting chance against a class is if your CC break is up and your Buffs aren't on CD (That bubble has a CD on it as well as a debuff so you can't spam it on yourself if it breaks) is a sign, something may have gone terribly wrong with the design of this class. Also, remember, not every class has a bubble to defend itself and Heavy armor seems to be a non-issue (Acid blade's 50% Armor pen) when it comes it Op domination. By your logic if a sniper should in no way what so ever be able to fight back. A Merc or Power-tech should NOT be able to fight back. Anyone without their CC break up should NOT be able to fight back. You must have the IQ of a gym sock to think that to be rational.

 

When people say you need a nerf, it's not to TAKE YOUR BURST AWAY. It's to NORMALIZE YOUR BURST. Get a hold of yourself, stop panicking.

[amoxxx]

Reason #4754 why to quit playing swtor. Edited January 8, 2012 by amoxxx

[Jayton]

Yeah, I watched him fight a Sentinel that lived on Huttball and was dropped to 60%~ HP. He killed him and then killed a lv23~ - he basically caught him alone. Doing what he's suppose to do.

 

I watched him fight another one on Voidstar and barely make it out alive - popping evasion and escaping - when another came in and helped. If that extra helper was 50, he probably would of died.

 

Oh, and let's not forget on Civil War where he got his 15% Expertise Buff and barely made it out against that Commando(?). With the help of three others.

 

your paying attention to only the fights he runs into trouble in not the overall fight. he totally annihilates several people that shouldn't be taken out that fast even people with heavy armor.

[Plastic]

The fact that the only way you have a fighting chance against a class is if your CC break is up and your Buffs aren't on CD (That bubble has a CD on it as well as a debuff so you can't spam it on yourself if it breaks) is a sign, something may have gone terribly wrong with the design of this class. Also, remember, not every class has a bubble to defend itself and Heavy armor seems to be a non-issue (Acid blade's 50% Armor pen) when it comes it Op domination. By your logic if a sniper should in no way what so ever be able to fight back. A Merc or Power-tech should NOT be able to fight back. Anyone without their CC break up should NOT be able to fight back. You must have the IQ of a gym sock to think that to be rational.

 

When people say you need a nerf, it's not to TAKE YOUR BURST AWAY. It's to NORMALIZE YOUR BURST. Get a hold of yourself, stop panicking.

 

 

The game isn't designed around one against ones. No MMO is designed for one against ones. You put an Operative in a competitive arena and see how it does when he gets death gripped on, targets shielded, targets healed and when people travel with their groups.

 

If I'm on my Sniper and an Operative catches me alone - I know I'm probably boned unless I play my cards right and get lucky. This is a time where TEAMMATES become handy to watch my back and make sure my *** is up and alive in the bout.

 

Seriously - if you think a class should be handled and tuned for one on one combat, then you shouldn't be playing MMO PVP. Some classes are strong in One on One - yes, but MMO PVP isn't designed around 1v1s.

 

All I'm saying is that he's catching people: 1) Alone. 2) Unbuffed/Protected (i.e shields, HoTs, whatever) and 3) With low physical mitigation and he won. He did his job, move on.

 

If they normalize the burst and spread it out, then it stops being burst - doesn't it?

[amoxxx]

wow your not trying to blame it on the consumables haha.. seriously.. uhh did you watch the video bro? ONE consumable doesnt make you do everything he just did. and the other buffs that intial class buffs dude! cmon pay attention people!

 

+1 for someone that is actually smart

[Fdzzaigl]

Yeah, I watched him fight a Sentinel that lived on Huttball and was dropped to 60%~ HP. He killed him and then killed a lv23~ - he basically caught him alone. Doing what he's suppose to do.

 

I watched him fight another one on Voidstar and barely make it out alive - popping evasion and escaping - when another came in and helped. If that extra helper was 50, he probably would of died.

 

Oh, and let's not forget on Civil War where he got his 15% Expertise Buff and barely made it out against that Commando(?). With the help of three others.

 

So, you really believe it's ok for a class to take away 50-70% in CC of even a tank class' health when you have the opener?

 

Sorry, but getting the jump should only go so far. Even against lightly armored classes.

 

The OP consistently takes away that kind of health from level 50 players at around 3:40, 4:00, 4:40 and 6:00+ in the vid. Yes he's geared, but that doesn't excuse it completely.

[Knifewrench]

That's BS. Why do you get all the fun of killing people while I'm on the other side of the map doing nothing in that first game!

[Plastic]

your paying attention to only the fights he runs into trouble in not the overall fight. he totally annihilates several people that shouldn't be taken out that fast even people with heavy armor.

 

What? Them low-levels? Yeah, lets nerf this class. My lv50 Operative killed that lv30 Sage so quickly! REDIKULUS!

 

Oh, that sorc he caught with his pants down? Crap! My Lv50 Operative killed a dude with his pants down so quickly! REDIKULUS!

 

The back of his head? REDIKULUS!

 

Seriously: All I ask. Wait till lv50 only brackets. Let me see a few videos of those fights. Then lets talk about bringing out the nerfs. Bringing out nerfs THIS soon without judging how the class is on a competitive field (i.e 50s vs 50s) is just a stupid idea.

 

There was a reason why Sublety wasn't popular in WoW PVP.

 

If you guys wan't an actual high burst against lv50s in gear? Should of seen Death Whirlwind + Soul Strike in Age of Conan.

[MEdiKLEZ]

So yesterday I was reading the forums and noticed a huge amount of "nerf operatives" threads with a high volume of operatives posting "omg we're not OP, we're balanced".

 

That is a load of crap. I've been playing MMO's for 10 years and my operative is the most imbalanced character I've played in years.

 

I spent 2 hours yesterday gathering some videos and cut this YouTube video last night.

 

Enjoy...

 

 

I say as long as there are no lvl 50 only brackets this class is indeed OP.

On one hand, you see in the vid that an opponent who is also 50 has enough time to react to the operative's stealth attack. But on the other, a lvl 50 operative who faces lower lvls with this ability is OP no doubt. BW already said that we will soon have 50s brackets what resolves the whole issue to me hopefully soon.

[Jayton]

The game isn't designed around one against ones. No MMO is designed for one against ones. You put an Operative in a competitive arena and see how it does when he gets death gripped on, targets shielded, targets healed and when people travel with their groups.

 

If I'm on my Sniper and an Operative catches me alone - I know I'm probably boned unless I play my cards right and get lucky. This is a time where TEAMMATES become handy to watch my back and make sure my *** is up and alive in the bout.

 

Seriously - if you think a class should be handled and tuned for one on one combat, then you shouldn't be playing MMO PVP. Some classes are strong in One on One - yes, but MMO PVP isn't designed around 1v1s.

 

All I'm saying is that he's catching people: 1) Alone. 2) Unbuffed/Protected (i.e shields, HoTs, whatever) and 3) With low physical mitigation and he won. He did his job, move on.

 

If they normalize the burst and spread it out, then it stops being burst - doesn't it?

 

I understand what your saying I do really. But I PLAY A BURST CLASS. Shadow is a burst class and my burst dmg is NOTHING compared to that. yeah i can crit for 4k but my average hit is about 2.3-2.5k on my most powerful ability and i spam it 3 times before im completly out of force and have to wait a few seconds. even when I come up on unbuffed pants down but full health low mitigation people. I cant burst them down like that. So what your saying is I should get a BUFF to do that kind of dmg? so I can take out people 1v1 like that? because as it sits with my class in pvp I have low sustain in pvp and low mitigation and ok burst dmg. where as the op/scoundrel has the same but high burst. I believe if they were put around the same dmg as my class it would be a little more even. I can come up behind an ops and catch him pants down 60% health and barely manage to kill him at times if hes a really good player. but if an ops catches me pants down. im dead... no if ands butts about it. 100% health to dead before my stun is done with. and thats with 7 pvp gear champion items

[Plastic]

So, you really believe it's ok for a class to take away 50-70% in CC of even a tank class' health when you have the opener?

 

Sorry, but getting the jump should only go so far. Even against lightly armored classes.

 

The OP consistently takes away that kind of health from level 50 players at around 3:40, 4:00, 4:40 and 6:00+ in the vid. Yes he's geared, but that doesn't excuse it completely.

 

 

But watch those fights. He gets dropped to 50%~ By that Jedi on Huttball when he was doing his job - i.e catching people alone. Combine that crap with a nerf? Whats the class going to be good for outside of damage output?

[longbawl]

The game isn't designed around one against ones.

 

You're right its not....but the speed with which he can dispatch people, re-enter stealth, and reopen on another target makes it more like 1v3 or 1vN, whatever the case is with how quickly he can gib people.

 

I think sin dmg more reflects the kind of dmg ops should do, more sustained-less burst. I know for me playing a sin in wzs i rarely, if ever, have the chance to open, gib in 2-3 globals, and restealth. In fact it can be quite difficult to even get out of combat at times.

[Lingalol]

burst classes have no place in future mmos.

 

It's a dead style of gameplay and hopefully they remove it.

 

It takes 0 skill and allows players to become lazy and all flock to flavor of the month classes.

 

All classes doing consistent damage allows the better player to shine for using the logical choice options given to him.

 

Burst classes just go AMBUSH BACKSTAB LOL IM A BURST CLASS GET USED TO IT BRO????????

[Jayton]

You're right its not....but the speed with which he can dispatch people, re-enter stealth, and reopen on another target makes it more like 1v3 or 1vN, whatever the case is with how quickly he can gib people.

 

I think sin dmg more reflects the kind of dmg ops should do, more sustained-less burst. I know for me playing a sin in wzs i rarely, if ever, have the chance to open, gib in 2-3 globals, and restealth. In fact it can be quite difficult to even get out of combat at times.

 

as your opposite I totally agree with you. I cannot gib someone in a matter of seconds and restealth. I however can gib someone in like 6-10 seconds but then cannot reenter stealth for several seconds later sometimes not at all.

[BobaFurz]

What? Them low-levels? Yeah, lets nerf this class. My lv50 Operative killed that lv30 Sage so quickly! REDIKULUS!

 

Oh, that sorc he caught with his pants down? Crap! My Lv50 Operative killed a dude with his pants down so quickly! REDIKULUS!

 

The back of his head? REDIKULUS!

 

Seriously: All I ask. Wait till lv50 only brackets. Let me see a few videos of those fights. Then lets talk about bringing out the nerfs. Bringing out nerfs THIS soon without judging how the class is on a competitive field (i.e 50s vs 50s) is just a stupid idea.

 

There was a reason why Sublety wasn't popular in WoW PVP.

 

If you guys wan't an actual high burst against lv50s in gear? Should of seen Death Whirlwind + Soul Strike in Age of Conan.

 

I agree, lets see how lvl 50 brackets are doing. But for a more detailed test you do better some duels and not battlegrounds, so you know exactly what your opponent has actually what kind of gear and so on..

 

Of course such pvp is unaccaptable if they cant react to the attack...this is no fun for others.

 

 

But one thing is sure....the game pvp class balance from 10-50 is totally unbalanced.... try to play a lvl 15 Juggernaut and after that try a BH...there is a ...DIMENSION...between both classes at this lvl in pvp...and later on at higher lvls the classes are still not balanced, some are late bloomer and some are already powerfull from lvl 10 up to lvl 50.

Edited January 8, 2012 by BobaFurz

[Plastic]

I understand what your saying I do really. But I PLAY A BURST CLASS. Shadow is a burst class and my burst dmg is NOTHING compared to that. yeah i can crit for 4k but my average hit is about 2.3-2.5k on my most powerful ability and i spam it 3 times before im completly out of force and have to wait a few seconds. even when I come up on unbuffed pants down but full health low mitigation people. I cant burst them down like that. So what your saying is I should get a BUFF to do that kind of dmg? so I can take out people 1v1 like that? because as it sits with my class in pvp I have low sustain in pvp and low mitigation and ok burst dmg. where as the op/scoundrel has the same but high burst. I believe if they were put around the same dmg as my class it would be a little more even. I can come up behind an ops and catch him pants down 60% health and barely manage to kill him at times if hes a really good player. but if an ops catches me pants down. im dead... no if ands butts about it. 100% health to dead before my stun is done with. and thats with 7 pvp gear champion items

 

Every class has their ups and downs. TAKE THIS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT: I believe Shadow/Assassins have more escapes - better CCs - and a better, and sooner, bubble than Operatives. But I MAY BE WRONG ON THIS POINT.

 

And might I add that no MMO has been developed around 1 against 1 fighting. Its -always- focused more for group fighting.

[Jayton]

we have the same escapes less cc bro and no heal....... hmm I have a 19 scoundrel and a 50 shadow. my 19 hits harder than my 50.. kinna sad to me because my 50 has the gear my 19 doesnt.

[Digitallyatomic]

The game isn't designed around one against ones. No MMO is designed for one against ones. You put an Operative in a competitive arena and see how it does when he gets death gripped on, targets shielded, targets healed and when people travel with their groups.

 

If I'm on my Sniper and an Operative catches me alone - I know I'm probably boned unless I play my cards right and get lucky. This is a time where TEAMMATES become handy to watch my back and make sure my *** is up and alive in the bout.

 

Seriously - if you think a class should be handled and tuned for one on one combat, then you shouldn't be playing MMO PVP. Some classes are strong in One on One - yes, but MMO PVP isn't designed around 1v1s.

 

All I'm saying is that he's catching people: 1) Alone. 2) Unbuffed/Protected (i.e shields, HoTs, whatever) and 3) With low physical mitigation and he won. He did his job, move on.

 

If they normalize the burst and spread it out, then it stops being burst - doesn't it?

 

No one said put everything on a 1 vs 1 scale. I for one said make it to where people have a fighting chance. Fighting chance would be implying that your opener should not completely determine the conclusion of the fight in which case, in it's current form, it does. An opener at VERY best should get me MAYBE to 50%, and that's being generous. Currently even if I used my CD's and CC break I'm lucky to make it out at 50%, nine times out of ten I'm struck to 25% or lower.

 

To put this even more simply, a fighting chance would imply skill. Muscle memory is not skill.

 

Normalizing burst does not mean spread it out, you can still have burst dmg as well as sustained DPS.

[Kelticfury]

I understand what your saying I do really. But I PLAY A BURST CLASS. Shadow is a burst class and my burst dmg is NOTHING compared to that.

 

How about on a scoundrel which is the mirror class? I bet you can do the same. Try comparing shadow with sith assassin. Might as well say my juggernaught doesn't do dmg like a sorc!!!11

[ehrgeiz]

Its so funny watching plastic try to defend something that is clearly stronger then it should be. Enjoy it while you can, I know I will be rolling a op for pvp tonight.

[Chewstay]

To answer some questions that came up... I'm using 1 consumable only, the blue con flask. I'm not Biochem so I do not have the epic reusable ones. I have no health pots. I do not use the PVP consumables. Do they stack with the berzerker buff?

 

The bluecon flask consumable is 104 cunning and 43 power.

 

My self buffed stats (including flask) are:

 

1492 Cunning

1239 Endurance

14,890 HP

 

33.12% Crit (essentially giving me 50% crit on my HS and BS with talents)

65% Surge

[Jayton]

How about on a scoundrel which is the mirror class? I bet you can do the same. Try comparing shadow with sith assassin. Might as well say my juggernaught doesn't do dmg like a sorc!!!11

 

lol are you really trying to get onto me.. i said i have a scoundrel 19 and it does more dmg that my 50 with pvp geared... i have tried both.. and who the hell would compare a tank close range to a ranged heal dps?

[Plastic]

No one said put everything on a 1 vs 1 scale. I for one said make it to where people have a fighting chance. Fighting chance would be implying that your opener should not completely determine the conclusion of the fight in which case, in it's current form, it does. An opener at VERY best should get me MAYBE to 50%, and that's being generous. Currently even if I used my CD's and CC break I'm lucky to make it out at 50%, nine times out of ten I'm struck to 25% or lower.

 

To put this even more simply, a fighting chance would imply skill. Muscle memory is not skill.

 

Normalizing burst does not mean spread it out, you can still have burst dmg as well as sustained DPS.

 

If it isn't a one on one, shouldn't your teammates be on-top of that Operative making it dead and making sure you're not?

 

Because, I don't know about you, even when I play my Sniper and I see Operatives get on my healers/clothies, I hit them with flashbangs, cover pulse, or any cc I can - or diversion as a last call (which may or may not be a stupid idea - but i like the 65% reduction to hit)

Edited January 8, 2012 by Plastic

[Plastic]

Its so funny watching plastic try to defend something that is clearly stronger then it should be. Enjoy it while you can, I know I will be rolling a op for pvp tonight.

 

It's even funner because I'm just a guy who watched a video and saw beyond the big numbers on the screen. *shrug*

 

Only one person actually saw my point: Most of his videos were low levels and guys with their pants down. Lets wait for lv50 brackets and then call the nerfs/adjustments.

[JDreadloch]

You have guard active on you 50% of the time, from your premade friends, and always use biochem consumables.

 

The Scoundrel / Operative burst is a little strong, but the main problem is consumables and biochem in particular. Nearly any class can crit over 5k after stacking consumables. If you don't have biochem you're at a massive disadvantage.