Tracer Missile and Grav Round might need to be looked at

[lokivoid]

I'm a fresh level 50 with greens and absolutely no PvP gear. ( Damn my luck) I can out heal the tracer missile just fine on my Sorcerer.

 

Than you have yet to face a merc who geared purely for tracer missile damage. Same is said for Operative knife/backstab spam, its not bad until they focus stats purely on damage then it gets broken fast.

[Redderic]

now I know you are just trolling... As you've bee corrected several times, Demo round hits MUCH harder then grav round

 

hes not saying grav hits harder hes implying that the potential damage output of multiple gravs in a 15 second window IS higher than the damage of 1 demo in a 15 second window.

that i have not tested and have no clue to the truth behind it at all but would like to see some numbers show up here.

if you have a bh or commando and wouldnt mind dueling someone for the numbers rq and write down the dmg the spam does in the time it take demo to get off cd that would help end this thread quick... or potentially keep it going for days.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Redderic

[Enfuri]

now I know you are just trolling... As you've bee corrected several times, Demo round hits MUCH harder then grav round

 

Tracer missile has a higher tool tip than heatseeker missile. What allows Heatseeker to hit harder is a mix of the armor debuff and the 5% damage increase per heat signature which can mean a 25% damage increase. Use Heatseeker without using any tracer missiles and see how the damage compares.

[xVexillex]

Tracer missile has a higher tool tip than heatseeker missile. What allows Heatseeker to hit harder is a mix of the armor debuff and the 5% damage increase per heat signature which can mean a 25% damage increase. Use Heatseeker without using any tracer missiles and see how the damage compares.

 

 

NO IT DOESENT!

 

what is wrong with you?

 

my 50 trooper, Grav round 1504-1554

 

Demo round 1531-1619

 

demo round hits for an extra 5% per armordebuff ONTOP OF the actual armor debuff. Demo round hits harder then grav round with 0 debuffs on the target and hits MUCH harder then grav round on debuffed targets.

 

On top of that troopers have a talent that increases demo rounds crit damage by 30%... so even without debuffs it hits harder and crits much harder then grav round.

 

You havent the slighest idea what you are talking about.

Edited January 8, 2012 by xVexillex

[xVexillex]

hes not saying grav hits harder hes implying that the potential damage output of multiple gravs in a 15 second window IS higher than the damage of 1 demo in a 15 second window.

that i have not tested and have no clue to the truth behind it at all but would like to see some numbers show up here.

if you have a bh or commando and wouldnt mind dueling someone for the numbers rq and write down the dmg the spam does in the time it take demo to get off cd that would help end this thread quick... or potentially keep it going for days.

 

so at least 8 grav rounds (15 secs) does more damage then 1 demo round... DUH? there isnt an attack in the game that does more damage every 15 seconds then using 5-7 other attacks n that time frame.

 

what on earth are you arguing?

Edited January 8, 2012 by xVexillex

[Enfuri]

NO IT DOESENT!

 

what is wrong with you?

 

my 50 trooper, Grav round 1504-1554

 

Demo round 1531-1619

 

demo round hits for an extra 5% per armordebuff ONTOP OF the actual armor debuff.

 

sorry, the tool tips i was looking at on the various skill tree calculators have grav round with a higher tool tip.

 

and yes the mix of the armor debuff and the extra damage makes it do more.

 

however, this still illustrates a good point. my 4.5 second cool down 4% (5 stack) armor debuff has a tool tip that only hits for 521-599... notice a big difference there.

 

On top of that given the CD stuff.. what hits for more, 1 demo round doing 1531-1619 + 25% damage + 20% less armor. or 3 grav rounds fired over 4.5 seconds? Of course to get the 25% damage increase and 20% less armor you have to fire off at least 3 grav rounds to begin with.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Enfuri

[xVexillex]

sorry, the tool tips i was looking at on the various skill tree calculators have grav round with a higher tool tip.

 

and yes the mix of the armor debuff and the extra damage makes it do more.

 

however, this still illustrates a good point. my 4.5 second cool down 4% (5 stack) armor debuff has a tool tip that only hits for 521-599... notice a big difference there.

On top of that given the CD stuff.. what hits for more, 1 demo round doing 1531-1619 + 25% damage + 20% less armor. or 3 grav rounds fired over 4.5 seconds?

 

 

what on earth are you arguing? You cant compare a melee class and a range class like that... its apples and.. something not at all like an apple!

 

you are comparing 3 grav rounds vs 1 demo... which makes no sense, now 2 gravs and a demo vs 3 gravs is compareable, the 2 gravs and demo will do more damage, not to mention you are leaving out that demo has no cast time.

 

you are making my head hurt as you dont seem to grasp the class and are just reading numbers off a talent calculator...

Edited January 8, 2012 by xVexillex

[Enfuri]

the point is that the moves damage might be a little high when compared with both moves in the BH/trooper tree and compared to other classes.

 

For a JK for example, the armor debuff move does about 1/3 of the damage of grav round and has a 4.5 second cool down. I'm not saying that these moves should be equal. Just that right now Grav Round and Tracer Missile might be scaled up to do more damage than they should with regard to general game/ability balance.

 

I mean really look at your moves and other class moves that have a 1.5 second cast and are spamable and see how the damage in general compares. Being able to spam 3 grav rounds or tracer missiles and bring someone under 50% health seems a bit much from a spamable debuff move. From the way the move is described, it is intended to act as a debuff move on the enemy and a buff move for your other abilities. Why is this doing 3x more damage than other classes abilities that serve the same function?

 

I'm not going to say how much damage I think the move should do because that is up for the developers to decide. However in the current state it just seems off.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Enfuri

[Cegenaus]

not sure if these moves are intended to be as powerful as they are but it honestly seems to hit too hard for what it is.

 

Its spec'ed for in the 3rd tier of the commando/bh trees, it has a 1.5 second cast with no cool down, a 30m range, as well as reduces a players armor. Problem is that it hits harder than the move that you have to spec for in the 7th tier which has a 15 second cooldown on it.

 

In PvP Grav Round and Tracer Missile can hit reliably on crits for 2500-3000 and can be spammed to hit every 1.5 seconds.

 

It hits harder than a Jedi Knights Master Strike which has a 4m range, applies damage over 3 seconds, and has a 30 second cool down.

 

It wouldnt be so bad if so many BH's and troopers didnt just spam the move but it is the most effective way for them to kill stuff. No other class I'm aware of can use just one move and be as effective.

 

Personally I feel it needs to have a cooldown added, have its damage decreased, move it higher up in the tree, have the ammo/heat cost increased, or something else to bring it in line with other moves in both the BH/Trooper trees and other classes that have cooldowns and dont do as much damage.

 

the purpose of this thread is simply to give the devs a heads up so they can review the moves and see if they were meant to be this powerful and spamable.

 

are you kidding me? its the cornerstone of the arsenal spec and it has an activation time, which means we are as mobile as a house. two of the four abilities in the arsenal rotation have activation times, thats half of our most used abilities, if you can interrupt tracer you are effectively **** ing us since we cant stack any of our buffs/debuffs, not to mention unload cause then we literally dont have another slow at range. i cant count how many times i get LoSed or people run outside the range in PvP because i cannot move while i am using tracer or unload

 

lets also add the fact that we have one legitimate knock back, our other slow has an activation so we cant run around with that either and its interruptable and no in combat speed boost. to summarize, we are very stationary and pretty much worthless if anyone gets close to us, we cant keep them away and we cant get away. arsenal spec is very easy to LoS and kite and if you cant then you are doing it wrong. ive taken a few SW and SI toe to toe but the ones who know what they are doing wipe the floor with me

 

btw, ive never had any crit for any of my moves above 3k and the only way to do that is in full epics with adrenals/relics. other classes can routinely crit for as much as 7k, arsenal spec is pretty gimped tbh

Edited January 8, 2012 by Cegenaus

[cashogy]

3 second cooldown on tracer missile/grav round solves this whole problem. its still spammable enough to apply the stacks that mercs need to maximize damage on other attacks, and it forces those players to either twiddle their thumbs for 1 global, or find a way to be useful besides sitting in one place and spamming rockets

[Cegenaus]

3 second cooldown on tracer missile/grav round solves this whole problem. its still spammable enough to apply the stacks that mercs need to maximize damage on other attacks, and it forces those players to either twiddle their thumbs for 1 global, or find a way to be useful besides sitting in one place and spamming rockets

 

if you are gonna nerf tracer then it needs more damage, we need more cc, or we need better anti melee skills because right now tracer is all we've got

Edited January 8, 2012 by Cegenaus

[xVexillex]

the point is that the moves damage might be a little high when compared with both moves in the BH/trooper tree and compared to other classes.

 

For a JK for example, the armor debuff move does about 1/3 of the damage of grav round and has a 4.5 second cool down. I'm not saying that these moves should be equal. Just that right now Grav Round and Tracer Missile might be scaled up to do more damage than they should with regard to general game/ability balance.

 

I mean really look at your moves and other class moves that have a 1.5 second cast and are spamable and see how the damage in general compares. Being able to spam 3 grav rounds or tracer missiles and bring someone under 50% health seems a bit much from a spamable debuff move. From the way the move is described, it is intended to act as a debuff move on the enemy and a buff move for your other abilities. Why is this doing 3x more damage than other classes abilities that serve the same function?

 

I'm not going to say how much damage I think the move should do because that is up for the developers to decide. However in the current state it just seems off.

 

ok so you are upset that your JK is different then a trooper... you have incredibly flawed logic, assuming your tank class's debuffs have any relevance to the debuffs of a ranged nuker.

 

and 3 grav rounds wont bring any equally geared person to 50% health... and Grav round isnt just a "Spammable debuff move" THe entire gunnery tree is built around grav round... it is THE ability of the tree

[cashogy]

if you are gonna nerf tracer then it needs more damage, we need more cc, or we need better anti melee skills because right now tracer is all we've got

 

not sure if serious? power shot hits higher than tracer missile. unload hits WAY higher than tracer missile. rail shot hits about as hard. heatseekrs (without any target locks on target) can hit harder than tracer.

 

i regularly land 2.5-3k power shots. i regularly have unload do at least 6k damage. i regularly hit heatseeker and railshot for 3k or higher. and dont forget rocket punch, that can hit for around 2.5-3k as well on a good crit.

 

no CC? lolwat. stun dart and concussion dart (maybe not exact names, i forget) are CC. unload, if youre spec'd right, is CC. jet boost and rocket punch are CC.

 

you must be terrible if you think all we have is tracer missile

[Cegenaus]

not sure if serious? power shot hits higher than tracer missile. unload hits WAY higher than tracer missile. rail shot hits about as hard. heatseekrs (without any target locks on target) can hit harder than tracer.

 

i regularly land 2.5-3k power shots. i regularly have unload do at least 6k damage. i regularly hit heatseeker and railshot for 3k or higher. and dont forget rocket punch, that can hit for around 2.5-3k as well on a good crit.

 

no CC? lolwat. stun dart and concussion dart (maybe not exact names, i forget) are CC. unload, if youre spec'd right, is CC. jet boost and rocket punch are CC.

 

you must be terrible if you think all we have is tracer missile

 

oh so all of those skills stack buffs/debuffs? how about rocket punch, how far back does its knockback go? sounds like youve never played the class before kiddo

[Enfuri]

hit them with a 4 second stun and then hit 3 grav rounds and you've essentially killed a lot of classes.

 

Sure it might be a cornerstone of the build but that doesnt mean that the damage is currently scaled in a balanced manner. And from the way you are talking it sounds like the build uses only 3 moves?

 

I agree that some of the other classes can do a stupid amount of damage too but that does not mean that grav/tracer are working the way that they should.

 

Sure inquisitors and sages can do insane amounts of damage but thats because the hit against a different damage type too. IE they go against elemental and my tank right now only sits at about 10% mitigation. I dont think that it is necessarily right for them to do that either. However trying to fix that would be a much bigger task since most of their abilities hit the other damage types. Simply making them hit armor would likely solve a lot of the OP problems those classes have.

 

I knew this thread would make a lot of people playing those classes in that way upset because they dont want their best move touched. But balance and being happy about having an OP move are two separate things.

 

Oh and guess what, a Sith Warrior or a Jedi Knight is not really going to be in a position to kite you so that argument disappears for that class. On top of that tracer missile/grav round has a 30m range so the only one that can hit outside that range is a sniper or a gun slinger. And if you look at sentinels and mauraders, they have even less CC than you are describing, wear medium armor, and have to be in melee range.

[CHRISGG]

hit them with a 4 second stun and then hit 3 grav rounds and you've essentially killed a lot of classes.

 

Sure it might be a cornerstone of the build but that doesnt mean that the damage is currently scaled in a balanced manner. And from the way you are talking it sounds like the build uses only 3 moves?

 

I agree that some of the other classes can do a stupid amount of damage too but that does not mean that grav/tracer are working the way that they should.

 

Sure inquisitors and sages can do insane amounts of damage but thats because the hit against a different damage type too. IE they go against elemental and my tank right now only sits at about 10% mitigation. I dont think that it is necessarily right for them to do that either. However trying to fix that would be a much bigger task since most of their abilities hit the other damage types. Simply making them hit armor would likely solve a lot of the OP problems those classes have.

 

I knew this thread would make a lot of people playing those classes in that way upset because they dont want their best move touched. But balance and being happy about having an OP move are two separate things.

 

Oh and guess what, a Sith Warrior or a Jedi Knight is not really going to be in a position to kite you so that argument disappears for that class. On top of that tracer missile/grav round has a 30m range so the only one that can hit outside that range is a sniper or a gun slinger. And if you look at sentinels and mauraders, they have even less CC than you are describing, wear medium armor, and have to be in melee range.

 

If any AC of SW or JK has a problem with commandos or mercs they're awful and should quit.

[Enfuri]

oh so all of those skills stack buffs/debuffs? how about rocket punch, how far back does its knockback go? sounds like youve never played the class before kiddo

 

honestly man, form the way it sounds he knows the class much better than you and plays it better. This game should be about move variety and knowing all your abilities and being able to use all of your abilities. Not spamming 2-3 moves.

[cashogy]

oh so all of those skills stack buffs/debuffs? how about rocket punch, how far back does its knockback go? sounds like youve never played the class before kiddo

 

well a person with an ounce of investigative skills would notice my signature

 

i play merc. i regulalry do > 300k damage per match, occasionally > 400k if our team has competent healers. i eat tracer missile spammers for breakfast.

 

tracer missiles give at max a 20% armor break, 25% heatseeker damage increase, and 30% rail shot damage increase. they can also reset the cooldown on unload and give it a 25% damage bonus.

 

for the rail shot boost you need to fire 5 times, for the heatseeker and armor break you need to fire 3.

 

tracer missile -> unload -> tracer missile -> power shot -> tracer missile -> heatseeker -> rail shot. whatever im shooting at is usually dead before i get to the rail shot. throw in an extra unload if i happen to reset the cooldown.

 

i suggest you learn to use all of your tools before you whine about BUFFING merc

[MetallicaRulez]

Problem is that it hits harder than the move that you have to spec for in the 7th tier which has a 15 second cooldown on it.

 

No it doesn't. My average Grav Round is about 2.8-3k. My average Demo Round is 3.4-3.8k.

[OccisorDK]

I only have one problem with this tracer missile.. or rather, assrocket.. The animation makes me laugh so much that I can't focus

[CHRISGG]

well a person with an ounce of investigative skills would notice my signature

 

i play merc. i regulalry do > 300k damage per match, occasionally > 400k if our team has competent healers. i eat tracer missile spammers for breakfast.

 

tracer missiles give at max a 20% armor break, 25% heatseeker damage increase, and 30% rail shot damage increase. they can also reset the cooldown on unload and give it a 25% damage bonus.

 

for the rail shot boost you need to fire 5 times, for the heatseeker and armor break you need to fire 3.

 

tracer missile -> unload -> tracer missile -> power shot -> tracer missile -> heatseeker -> rail shot. whatever im shooting at is usually dead before i get to the rail shot. throw in an extra unload if i happen to reset the cooldown.

 

i suggest you learn to use all of your tools before you whine about BUFFING merc

My favorite part is the random power shot, which does less damage than tracer missile and can miss.

[xVexillex]

hit them with a 4 second stun and then hit 3 grav rounds and you've essentially killed a lot of classes.

Sure it might be a cornerstone of the build but that doesnt mean that the damage is currently scaled in a balanced manner. And from the way you are talking it sounds like the build uses only 3 moves?

 

I agree that some of the other classes can do a stupid amount of damage too but that does not mean that grav/tracer are working the way that they should.

 

Sure inquisitors and sages can do insane amounts of damage but thats because the hit against a different damage type too. IE they go against elemental and my tank right now only sits at about 10% mitigation. I dont think that it is necessarily right for them to do that either. However trying to fix that would be a much bigger task since most of their abilities hit the other damage types. Simply making them hit armor would likely solve a lot of the OP problems those classes have.

 

I knew this thread would make a lot of people playing those classes in that way upset because they dont want their best move touched. But balance and being happy about having an OP move are two separate things.

 

Oh and guess what, a Sith Warrior or a Jedi Knight is not really going to be in a position to kite you so that argument disappears for that class. On top of that tracer missile/grav round has a 30m range so the only one that can hit outside that range is a sniper or a gun slinger. And if you look at sentinels and mauraders, they have even less CC than you are describing, wear medium armor, and have to be in melee range.

 

 

it what fantasy universe? 3 grav rounds are not going to come close to killing ANY champion geared player.

 

are you 50 and geared on your JK btw?

 

the more I read its pretty clear you are either under lvled or under geared

[cashogy]

My favorite part is the random power shot, which does less damage than tracer missile and can miss.

 

not sure if serious.

 

i regularly hit powershot for > 2.5k, sometimes over 3k on a really good crit.

 

again, learn your class. if you neglect a part of it youre going to miss out on something beneficial

[xVexillex]

honestly man, form the way it sounds he knows the class much better than you and plays it better. This game should be about move variety and knowing all your abilities and being able to use all of your abilities. Not spamming 2-3 moves.

 

I know the class and play it much better then you yet you keep posting about it, why single him out?

[CHRISGG]

not sure if serious.

 

i regularly hit powershot for > 2.5k, sometimes over 3k on a really good crit.

 

again, learn your class. if you neglect a part of it youre going to miss out on something beneficial

 

It was proven way back in beta that Power Shot is a DPS loss over Tracer Missile.

 

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Arsenal-Mercenary-Gunnery-Commando-DPS-Compendium