Selecting Need for your companion

[RycheMykola]

Companions are just as important for leveling. If not then don't use your companion for anything except crafting. Lets see how far you get.

And since there is no anonymous LFD tool, when word gets around your server that you're the "need rolling for companion" type, and get blackballed (especially if they ever make server forums), I'm sure you'll be the first posting that you cannot find anyone to run instances.

 

If someone need rolled for a companion on one of my runs, I would need roll on EVERYTHING that they need roll on. Heck, even if a single enhancement/socket was usable.

 

I've been in pretty good groups so far though and no one has done this except for one. I won the roll, but he apologized for need rolling and he thought you could just trade the item (like how WOW is).

 

This isn't WOW. You WILL get a negative rep on your server.

[Lostpenguins]

Sorry, I should have been a little more specific about what I meant by "optimal". I was mainly referring to the optimal armor type (heavy, medium, light). In your case, the marauder would fill medium type drops (regardless of str or cunning), sorc/assassin light type, and jugg for heavy type (str or aim).

 

My group I always run instances with only comprises of myself (light armor) and my 2 friends (both heavy armor). We have yet to see any medium BoP armor drop, even with a medium armor npc (which from my previous post was the focus of it). Maybe we're just that lucky to only get drops pertaining to our ideal armor types?

 

A medium armor drop that has cunning is as useless to me as a piece of Heavy Armor (I play a marauder).

 

Also, we've seen double-bladed lightsabers drop with no assassins in the group.

[Xenich]

This argument would only hold water if you were only going to use that gear in Flashpoints or Operations. However, once you have upgrades from FPs, you're going out into the questing world to use them, at which point they become a meaningful impact on non-group content.

 

If we can't agree that companions are part of our characters, then we won't agree on anything else. It's a foundational argument at work here. I believe companions are part of my character, and as a result, require upgrades through as many available paths as my character itself has.

 

The existence of companions in this paradigm largely invalidates the benefits of Need Before Greed, and would be better served by either including companion-specific loot tables with each boss, or moving to a Roll/Pass option.

 

The "meaningful impact" on non-group content is irrelevant to the group. They are concerned about obtaining group rewards through group effort to which the argument of solo performance is absolutely worthless.

 

Why should the "group" be concerned with the solo play of another? Why is it their business or required consideration? I don't care about your solo play. I don't care if your companion is geared well, or if you have a tough time with them. It is none of my concern and it has nothing to do with my participation in that group, yet you make an argument that I am somehow required to be concerned about things outside of the group?

 

Again, this is the fallacy of your argument. Solo play is irrelevant. If it is not applied within the group, then it is not an element for consideration. It is as simple as that.

[Amiracle]

This argument would only hold water if you were only going to use that gear in Flashpoints or Operations. However, once you have upgrades from FPs, you're going out into the questing world to use them, at which point they become a meaningful impact on non-group content.

 

If we can't agree that companions are part of our characters, then we won't agree on anything else. It's a foundational argument at work here. I believe companions are part of my character, and as a result, require upgrades through as many available paths as my character itself has.

 

The existence of companions in this paradigm largely invalidates the benefits of Need Before Greed, and would be better served by either including companion-specific loot tables with each boss, or moving to a Roll/Pass option.

 

Its funny watching all these kids justify their greed.

 

I do it this way.

 

I am a healer.

 

If someone rolls need on a healing item then guess what, their companion now becomes the healer.

 

Group full? No room for the companion.....hope you brought some meds....why?

 

Because its obvious you don't want me to heal you.

 

 

Solution: Make all companion gear come from crafting. Win win for everyone.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Amiracle

[RycheMykola]

Its funny watching all these kids justify their greed.

 

I do it this way.

 

I am a healer.

 

If someone rolls need on a healing item then guess what, their companion now becomes the healer.

 

Group full? No room for the companion.....hope you brought some meds....why?

 

Because its obvious you don't want me to heal you.

 

 

Solution: Make all companion gear come from crafting. Win win for everyone.

If someone says they "need" for companion...............then "needing" an item to sell to the vendor is just as true. Extra credits helps my solo gameplay also, just as much as your companion helps you.

 

edit:

haha, I would stop healing them too.

Edited January 6, 2012 by RycheMykola

[Xenich]

And since there is no anonymous LFD tool, when word gets around your server that you're the "need rolling for companion" type, and get blackballed (especially if they ever make server forums), I'm sure you'll be the first posting that you cannot find anyone to run instances.

 

And this is why they start whining about the need for a LFD tool. They end up angering so many people that nobody wants to group with them and so they demand a tool to which randomly pops them into peoples groups so they can continue to ride the backs of others to gain their loot.

 

 

 

If someone need rolled for a companion on one of my runs, I would need roll on EVERYTHING that they need roll on. Heck, even if a single enhancement/socket was usable.

 

I don't group much with random people any more and if I do, it is only to add a person in. If they act as such, one of two things happen. Either we kick them from the group or we move it to master loot and begin assigning as we see fit until they get the hint.

[Xenich]

 

Solution: Make all companion gear come from crafting. Win win for everyone.

 

I don't think we need to do this. It is a cop-out situation. People just need to start letting them see the consequences of such social actions as you showed. When enough people get kicked, black listed, master loot locked, and then can't find groups, well... it will be a win for those who count. Frankly, I could care less about the abusers getting a win, they need the shaft, it is the only way they will get a clue.

[Eldren]

The "meaningful impact" on non-group content is irrelevant to the group. They are concerned about obtaining group rewards through group effort to which the argument of solo performance is absolutely worthless.

 

Why should the "group" be concerned with the solo play of another? Why is it their business or required consideration? I don't care about your solo play. I don't care if your companion is geared well, or if you have a tough time with them. It is none of my concern and it has nothing to do with my participation in that group, yet you make an argument that I am somehow required to be concerned about things outside of the group?

 

Again, this is the fallacy of your argument. Solo play is irrelevant. If it is not applied within the group, then it is not an element for consideration. It is as simple as that.

 

I think your argument contains a fallacy, and that's the assumption that the only content that "matters" is group content. If you're doing nothing but group content from 1st level to 50th (which I know you aren't unless you're completely ignoring your class story, which is solo play from 1-50), your perspective would be valid. As it stands, however, it isn't.

 

We go into group content for a quality of gear that supersedes that we get from solo content. We then take that gear out into solo content to do it easier, until it gets upgraded by higher-end solo gear, GTN purchases, commendation gear, or higher-end FP gear.

 

In short, we're in FPs to get gear we're going to use outside the group. So its impact on solo play is very meaningful.

 

You aren't required to be concerned about anything I do with my character, just as I'm not concerned about what you do with yours. I cooperate with my groups to down bosses, but every single person in a group who rolls on gear is saying "I want this for my own reasons". They don't do content to gear others, they do it to gear themselves, and their companions.

 

So your whole argument is meaningless.

[coffeerox]

This argument came up yesterday when I brought up a scenario about me rolling need for my companions. The people in the chat say that we are Sith. We are here to be bad. So therefore do anything possible to be bad. Stealing quest items, mobs, etc is okay. There is no etiquette and that it does not matter.

 

I brought up the point that if it is okay to do all those, because we are Sith, then it's okay to need roll for companions right? They said it's not the same. They said I would get reported or banned for doing this. Their logic is that we are Sith, the baddest of the bad. It doesn't matter how big of a jerk or a-hole we are.

 

So that should extend to FP's too right? Apparently they thought that etiquette should exist for FP's but not solo play. That's a fallacy right there because it does not fit into their logic that we are Sith, we are the bad guys, we do bad things to other players.

 

Personally, regarding companion loot, me and a friend usually duo Flashpoints. My companion tanks while my friend's heals. If any tanking or caster items drop, it's mine. If any ranged dps items drops, it's his. In a full group, I only roll on companion gear if I wait a while, and see if the need button was pressed by the competition. If that person did not need it, then I'm rolling on it. If my companion was actually there because it filled that role, then I'm rolling for those items end of story.

 

A lot of you here suggest not keeping the companion gear up to date. That's exactly why I see so many people run around with tanks who can't tank, healers who can't heal, etc etc. My tank doesn't get one shotted, actually replaces a real live tank, all because I put time into getting the proper gear for him and keeping it up to date. Companions are very useful and can completely fill a slot for that role, only if you put the time and energy into managing it properly.

[Aimorai]

Solution:

 

Ask the group before need rolling for companions. Simple and effective. I know it requires a moment of communication with fellow human beings, but you can do it!

 

I tend to roll around with Qyzen Fess, who wears Trooper gear (Aim + End). If the group has a trooper or two, I tend to just let them have it. If the group has no trooper, I'm more likely to ask to roll.

 

Common sense and courtesy solve this problem.

[pseaton]

Did your companion help you run that instance? If the answer is no, then you should not be rolling need for them. I don't care if you can use it later for your companion. The loot in a flashpoint is obtained by the people who are running it and it should go to one of them, not your AI pet. As others have said, there are plenty of other ways to equip up your companion. Heck, just do a couple PvP matches a day and you'll be swimmingin PvP tokens you can use on your companion. When I do most of the quests in a zone I get more zone tokens then I need that I can use on my companion.

 

You should not be rolling need in a flashpoint for your companion!

 

 

What does using your companion in the FP has anything to do with this? Do you only use the gear you get when you are in the FP? NO! You get gear so you can level easier. I level easier with my companion. Do you use your companion to level? If the answer is YES, then you should roll NEED on things for your companion. This is not other MMO's. This is one were you are using you and your companion to level. I understand once you hit 50 then no, you don't roll need.

[RycheMykola]

And this is why they start whining about the need for a LFD tool. They end up angering so many people that nobody wants to group with them and so they demand a tool to which randomly pops them into peoples groups so they can continue to ride the backs of others to gain their loot.

So true. The kicking tool was so nice when they added it.

 

I don't group much with random people any more and if I do, it is only to add a person in. If they act as such, one of two things happen. Either we kick them from the group or we move it to master loot and begin assigning as we see fit until they get the hint.

Same. Usually we run full guild, 1 person pick up at the most. No problems...........yet.

[profaneascension]

This argument would only hold water if you were only going to use that gear in Flashpoints or Operations. However, once you have upgrades from FPs, you're going out into the questing world to use them, at which point they become a meaningful impact on non-group content.

 

Let's look at it this way, then:

 

a) Gear awarded to player characters can be used in all situations: Flashpoints, Operations, questing, any level of PvP, and any groups of any composition.

 

b) Gear awarded to companions can be used in a limited variety of situations: questing, small groups, sub-50 PvP.

 

To me, it makes far more sense for the gear to go to someone who can use it in all situations rather than a limited variety of situations.

 

 

If we can't agree that companions are part of our characters, then we won't agree on anything else. It's a foundational argument at work here. I believe companions are part of my character, and as a result, require upgrades through as many available paths as my character itself has.

 

Oh, I already know I'm not going to change your mind. I just wanted to illustrate how little sense it makes to broaden the definition of need to the point where it encompasses companions, because it can always be argued that some other element in the game is an extension of one's character. We must draw a line somewhere in the middle between Need and Greed.

[Draflorin]

You aren't enhancing your group contribution by doing so. All you are doing is enhancing your solo ability to which the group could care less about. The group does not join together so they can outfit your solo play, they do so in order to outfit their characters abilities to which is the only contribution in a full group. It is a invalid argument to use "character ability" as a justification when in fact that ability is never seen in a full group experience. You making your companion stronger will not help the group in that dungeon in any way shape or form, hence only players present rolling need on needed items being the issue.

 

It is simple logic and there is no justifying the position you make unless your companion is a component within that group, to which most here are not arguing as the issue is a full group of players rolling need over another player so they can outfit their companion to which offers nothing to the group.

 

Sorry but your argument is flawed, people group for a CHANCE to obtain gear that they can use. whether its for cosmetic reasons or functionality reasons or god forbid, their companions. People DO roll for other reasons than enhancing thier group play abilities.

just be happy with your equal 25% chance that you can get a nice item and move on.

 

I'm from the Oceanic region and sometimes finding a full group can be a problem because not too many players in my time zone since the game hasn't been released here yet, My companion has often filled the last spot and by keeping him top notch i add to my ability to contribute to a group.

[KnightRasler]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but a COMPANION BUTTON when rolling for loot would be useful.

 

NEED > COMPANION > GREED

[ZkilfinG]

My opinion is that need is only for the char playing, not alts nor companions. Perhaps there should be a "companion need" option in the roll though? Also it would be nice with an optional group setting to disallow need rolls for things that the main can't possibly need. Just to avoid people getting greedy.

[COLS_Ghost]

Need for Companions? Personally I am against it along with those who "need" everything. If I group with those types I'll just finish the instance then put them on ignore.

[Lostpenguins]

What does using your companion in the FP has anything to do with this? Do you only use the gear you get when you are in the FP? NO! You get gear so you can level easier. I level easier with my companion. Do you use your companion to level? If the answer is YES, then you should roll NEED on things for your companion. This is not other MMO's. This is one were you are using you and your companion to level. I understand once you hit 50 then no, you don't roll need.

 

The reason you don't get to gear your companion over a person in a flashpoint is because your companion wasn't there.

 

You are taking gear from someone who actually participated in that instance. That's like saying I'm rolling need on this BoE because my guildie can use it. And my guildie and I have leveled through 95% of the game together.

 

C'mon... seriously dude. Think about it. You're taking gear over someone who could use it as an upgrade and was actually participating in the flashpoint just for your companion who didn't help a single bit.

 

Once again, go back to my statement about it being like someone rolling on an offspec that they use while leveling, but they're not doing that in an instance. Oh, I mainly heal while leveling so I'm going to take the healing item over the guy who's actually the healer in this FP.

 

Try again...

[Malachy]

If we can't agree that companions are part of our characters, then we won't agree on anything else.

 

Since your companion isn't here for the flashpoint, or any flashpoint with a properly constructed party, then you're right, I will never agree that a companion is a part of your character. Your companion is not there in the flashpoint, nor will he or she ever be.

 

We're talking about flashpoints here. Giving flashpoint gear to your companion doesn't help you run the flashpoint, it doesn't help the group run the flashpoint, and it doesn't help any group you run with in the future run their flashpoint. Because of that, I find absolutely no justification for a companion to receive flashpoint gear.

 

If you really need flashpoint gear on your companion just to do solo content, then you either need to keep leveling or figure out how to play your class.

[coffeerox]

We're talking about flashpoints here. Giving flashpoint gear to your companion doesn't help you run the flashpoint, it doesn't help the group run the flashpoint, and it doesn't help any group you run with in the future run their flashpoint. Because of that, I find absolutely no justification for a companion to receive flashpoint gear.

Apparently you missed my post.

[pseaton]

And since there is no anonymous LFD tool, when word gets around your server that you're the "need rolling for companion" type, and get blackballed (especially if they ever make server forums), I'm sure you'll be the first posting that you cannot find anyone to run instances.

 

If someone need rolled for a companion on one of my runs, I would need roll on EVERYTHING that they need roll on. Heck, even if a single enhancement/socket was usable.

 

I've been in pretty good groups so far though and no one has done this except for one. I won the roll, but he apologized for need rolling and he thought you could just trade the item (like how WOW is).

 

This isn't WOW. You WILL get a negative rep on your server.

 

I am not sure how many people are on one server but if I get blacklisted by you, I will try not to cry. There are many other people to group with. On top of that, I don't want to group with people who don't know how to use their companions correctly.

[zandadoum]

your companion did not even been there if you were doing a 4man heroic or flashpoint

 

rolling for something that didn't help in that particular run, is like rolling for an alt char of yours or rolling just for the sake of vendoring for credits...

 

those rolls have a name: GREED ROLL

 

end of story.

Edited January 6, 2012 by zandadoum

[EternalFinality]

But rolling Need for yourself isn't being selfless even if it's for your primary character. When you roll need you're thinking of yourself and your objectives. And there's nothing wrong with that. We all need gear, and since we're all trying to get it, there's an impartial rolling system in place for when gear is contested. You can't say you're being "selfless" in any scenario where you're rolling Need against another player.

 

I never said I was selfless - you didn't actually understand what I wrote, did you? Pleas re-read it again, especially the last part of the top block.

 

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but a COMPANION BUTTON when rolling for loot would be useful.

 

NEED > COMPANION > GREED

 

Greed is the companion button. This isn't a difficult concept.

[Eldren]

Since your companion isn't here for the flashpoint, or any flashpoint with a properly constructed party, then you're right, I will never agree that a companion is a part of your character. Your companion is not there in the flashpoint, nor will he or she ever be.

 

We're talking about flashpoints here. Giving flashpoint gear to your companion doesn't help you run the flashpoint, it doesn't help the group run the flashpoint, and it doesn't help any group you run with in the future run their flashpoint. Because of that, I find absolutely no justification for a companion to receive flashpoint gear.

 

If you really need flashpoint gear on your companion just to do solo content, then you either need to keep leveling or figure out how to play your class.

 

Using your logic, any gear that any person gets in FPs doesn't help you personally run the FP. As a result, no one but you should get gear, because it only helps you run the FP.

 

Really it boils down to this, as I've said several times: your companions are part of your character and are a part that you use a lot more often than group content. They're an additional set of slots requiring upgrades. Those upgrades come from a variety of places, including FPs and Ops. It doesn't matter if you personally think that a companion doesn't require that particular level of gear. If the companion's owner does, that's all that matters.

 

I will continue to be polite and ask, but I don't do it out of a sense of obligation, I do it because I'm generally a considerate person. But make no mistake: I don't distinguish between my character and my companions when it comes to loot. An upgrade for "me" is an upgrade for "me", and "me" includes my companions. It's no business of yours or anyone else's what any player does with gear they win the roll on.

 

You should probably just stop thinking that other players require your approval or permission to play the game for their own benefit. Cooperation in this MMO is for the purpose of acquiring better gear, as with any class/gear-based MMO. The cooperation downs the boss so you and the other 3 in your party have an equal shot at the gear. You aren't there to gear up the other 3. Each of you is there to gear yourselves in whatever method you choose, and you cooperate so you can do so.

[pseaton]

The reason you don't get to gear your companion over a person in a flashpoint is because your companion wasn't there.

 

You are taking gear from someone who actually participated in that instance. That's like saying I'm rolling need on this BoE because my guildie can use it. And my guildie and I have leveled through 95% of the game together.

 

C'mon... seriously dude. Think about it. You're taking gear over someone who could use it as an upgrade and was actually participating in the flashpoint just for your companion who didn't help a single bit.

 

Once again, go back to my statement about it being like someone rolling on an offspec that they use while leveling, but they're not doing that in an instance. Oh, I mainly heal while leveling so I'm going to take the healing item over the guy who's actually the healer in this FP.

 

Try again...

 

Think about it? Well I am in the FP working to get better gear. Me and my companion are like 1 so if I need for me or my companion and someone else needs for what ever, I win the roll than so be it. It is for me in the game, hence the word NEED. If I (or my companion) doen't NEED it then I roll greed. This game is different because WE use our companions to level. What do you not get about that?