bigheadbrandon Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 People defending ops are playing one. You are in denial if you think the cc and burst from them is balanced. bla bla that kind of statement holds no ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubage Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 i can survive out of stealth but i'm not "3 shotting" somebody if its not while im in stealth I'm glad you agree. And you should not be 3 shotting anyone as your opener. It should do a good deal of damage to give you an advantage or make up for your lack of defense. It SHOULD NOT be an I WIN button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goulet Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 part of the problem (both in terms of what info people provide, and what people don't/do look at) is that there are numerous variables that can contribute to large damage numbers but people seem to have their heart set on simply nerfing the class. That's not to say it shouldn't or should happen, you simply need to look at whats causing the problem before railing against its affect. So to name a few: -class armor type: with the exception of dots all operative damage is physical. Higher armor=less damage. class type: more about mechanics then the "easy kill" aspect, but if you're ranged and you position yourself alone, you're more tempting to go after. level: talents are a game changer for burst for operative play style: if you stay stealth and do nothing for 3 minutes so you can burn every gcd you have on killing someone, it sucks to be that someone, but it's not exactly like the contribution of one kill every 3 minutes is overpowering. Not that this is always the case. -gear expertise: i see people simply ignore it in the discussion (not that the op did) but people dont seem to think something that increases damage done and decreases damage taken wouldn't contribute? relics: more on what gives a damage boost to operatives in addition to spec (+power +crit) armor stats: for operative what are they stacking? what if they're loaded for surge and have a crit relic trinket? not even going for surge im at 70% surge rating from talents/gear. -Buffs -powerups -stims that increase a stat for x seconds -CC (most people seem to ignore this entirely, which i don't understand why) duration: the amount of time you can render someone useless is quite ridiculous but that isn't specific to operativs. That being said due to the time you can cc, it gives a class who is designed to have the upperhand when attacking from behind an unrestricted pass to do so. When you're able to increase you're armor pen by 50% the entire time you're fighting someone because they can't turn around of course its going to cause problems, but the problem isn't necessarily the ability, its the rate at which it can be applied because of the cc. That being said there are probably more i can't think of, and all play a contributory role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokloka Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Who needs a knock back when you are perma stunned getting crit over 3k a hit? Its only going to get worse as gear gets better. Tanks are getting shredded like they were naked by these guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scratchie Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Op to me feels like they got lazy and turned them into wow's ambush rogues. Anyone with half a brain will tell you that melee glass cannons are an all around terrible idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubage Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 part of the problem (both in terms of what info people provide, and what people don't/do look at) is that there are numerous variables that can contribute to large damage numbers but people seem to have their heart set on simply nerfing the class. That's not to say it shouldn't or should happen, you simply need to look at whats causing the problem before railing against its affect. So to name a few: -class armor type: with the exception of dots all operative damage is physical. Higher armor=less damage. class type: more about mechanics then the "easy kill" aspect, but if you're ranged and you position yourself alone, you're more tempting to go after. level: talents are a game changer for burst for operative play style: if you stay stealth and do nothing for 3 minutes so you can burn every gcd you have on killing someone, it sucks to be that someone, but it's not exactly like the contribution of one kill every 3 minutes is overpowering. Not that this is always the case. -gear expertise: i see people simply ignore it in the discussion (not that the op did) but people dont seem to think something that increases damage done and decreases damage taken wouldn't contribute? relics: more on what gives a damage boost to operatives in addition to spec (+power +crit) armor stats: for operative what are they stacking? what if they're loaded for surge and have a crit relic trinket? not even going for surge im at 70% surge rating from talents/gear. -Buffs -powerups -stims that increase a stat for x seconds -CC (most people seem to ignore this entirely, which i don't understand why) duration: the amount of time you can render someone useless is quite ridiculous but that isn't specific to operativs. That being said due to the time you can cc, it gives a class who is designed to have the upperhand when attacking from behind an unrestricted pass to do so. When you're able to increase you're armor pen by 50% the entire time you're fighting someone because they can't turn around of course its going to cause problems, but the problem isn't necessarily the ability, its the rate at which it can be applied because of the cc. That being said there are probably more i can't think of, and all play a contributory role. All have been mentioned, but you would have to read through the posts. I strongly agree that the biggest component making the Op over powered is the combination of the opener with the stun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokloka Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 bla bla that kind of statement holds no ground Go back to your over powered op. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goulet Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 People defending ops are playing one. You are in denial if you think the cc and burst from them is balanced. you're in denial if you don't think one of those is what allows the other to be so skewed. understand the class, then you can understand the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selout Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) LOL! All you whiners do the same thing! You always paint a picture that we can do all these things all the time! But in reality, many of these are also on cooldown, or not even useable! Once you are the victim of a Hidden Strike and you hit the ground, there is no more CC! You are at full resolve! Even if you can't use your CC break ability because it's on cooldown, you are off the ground in 3 seconds, (at ~50% health IF you were full health) and can in turn stun/CC us, pop your health stim, and get to whoopin'. It happens to me all the time when I choose the wrong victim. Most people here are not being honest about the finer details of their experiences. Things like... If they truly were at full health, what their level was vs the Op's/Scoundrels, if they have expertise gear, what buff stacking was used, etc... ALL are all major factors in the outcome. The nature of most "stealth" classes is to pick off the weak. 90% of my targets are targets of opportunity. I'm betting many of the whiners here were such targets... and they get all pissy when they didn't see it coming. Whatever, the nerfs are coming. Everyone knows your class is redic. Even you know it is at some level. You are here to lobby against the inevitable. I am here to hopefully speed up the process. Any reasonable person who is truly interested in overall PvP balance should be able to see this fairly plainly. Personally, all you scrappers and concealment IA's who are calling everyone whiners/scrubs/bads/ect... are puzzling to me. In the years I've been playing MMO's, if my particular class was OP, I hoped they would always bring them in-line with the other classes so not every moron that can press 2 buttons would succeed at playing the class. I knew as long as they weren't nerfing it into the ground, I'd always be competitive. There is no pride is slaughtering people if there is some mechanic or part of my class that is too good. Are you so insecure about your own playing ability that if the nerfs do happen you will be completely ineffective? Honestly, if you can't see any validity in any of the complaints, perhaps you should take a better look at your own so-called skill and really determine if you are indeed crutching some broken/op game mechanics. Out of bitterness, some might want scrappers/conceals nerfed into the ground but I don't believe that would be good for the game. I don't want that class to be ineffectual either but people on the forums people like to deal in absolutes. Edited January 6, 2012 by Selout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokloka Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 My brother plays a 50 op. They are over the top with burst. Denial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goulet Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 All have been mentioned, but you would have to read through the posts. I strongly agree that the biggest component making the Op over powered is the combination of the opener with the stun. i've read all the posts (well not every single one) and have seen it mentioned, but it seems to get glossed over by most (if they're not i don't see why there have been numerous different threads on the matter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahalag Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 People like you add nothing to the conversation... at all. You make assumptions based on nothing. First of all, its scrapper/conceal. No one here is complaining about the healers so there goes your theory of knowing the other classes. Two, you assume no one plays with a "set team" and that's based on what? Your intimate knowledge of everyone's setup? Do 3 consistent Gladiator's count as a team capable of the necessary communication? While I agree the 3 shotting is exaggeration, the overall discontent with that class is real and warranted. No, no one wants all the classes to play exactly the same. Lol, you talk as if you know the class... how can you not see if their burst potential was toned down they would still be really good and bring more to the table than most classes in PvP? When did I say anything about healers? What are you even talking about? I can't even begin to have a conversation with you because you are bringing up points that I am not making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zantul Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Learn 2 play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigheadbrandon Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Go back to your over powered op. i cant because everyone on my server knows how to beat operatives, and you would too if you took some time to think critically about how to counter me isntead of alt tab and go to forums and cry about how your brain hurts because you got knocked down and stabbed to death Edited January 6, 2012 by bigheadbrandon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cronpants Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Im in full champ gear and 4 pieces of battlemaster. Are you kidding me with this crap? Im getting 3 shot by operatives non stop. I know a nerf is already incoming but it needs to hurry. Stop standing around looking at the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azsariell Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 If you can't kill an operative after the initial burst you are just plain awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goulet Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) My brother plays a 50 op. They are over the top with burst. Denial. go ask your brother what happens to his damage if he can't cc you the entire time so he can attack you from behind. I'm not saying the damage isn't skewed im saying its more the result of the cc then the damage based abilities (as all of the burst people complain about come from abilities that can only be used when attacking from behind). Simple question: would you complain that a plant grew too tall without even looking at how much sunlight it was getting? Edited January 6, 2012 by goulet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selout Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 When did I say anything about healers? What are you even talking about? I can't even begin to have a conversation with you because you are bringing up points that I am not making. Lol, go back and read your own post if you are confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokloka Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 go ask your brother what happens to his damage if he can't cc you the entire time so he can attack you from behind. I'm not saying the damage isn't skewed im saying its more the result of the cc then the damage based abilities (as all of the burst people complain about come from abilities that can only be used when attacking from behind). Simple question: would you complain that a plant grew too tall without even looking at how much sunlight it was getting? He knows they are over powered. He laughs every time he is in a battleground. Getting low on health? No problem vanish and reset. Between all the abilities you get and the high amount of damage output how can you say you are not even the slightest bit over the top? I see it every day when I Bg with my brother. I watch him kill a tank in 4 to 5 shots like nothing. Stealth up and do it again. Its actaully quit hilarious to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexell Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 He knows they are over powered. He laughs every time he is in a battleground. Getting low on health? No problem vanish and reset. Between all the abilities you get and the high amount of damage output how can you say you are not even the slightest bit over the top? I see it every day when I Bg with my brother. I watch him kill a tank in 4 to 5 shots like nothing. Stealth up and do it again. Its actaully quit hilarious to watch. Obvious Troll Post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zqsd Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) go ask your brother what happens to his damage if he can't cc you the entire time so he can attack you from behind. This is even worse than i thought. If you can't figure how to backstab someone without CC you are just horrible, plain and simple. I seriously think having to do nothing except facerolling your key sequence in order to bring someone from 100 to 30 doesen't help your class to get some skilled players, thus this is why we can see some statements like yours which just proves how newbie you are. Edited January 6, 2012 by zqsd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahalag Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Lol, go back and read your own post if you are confused. I think you need to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goulet Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 This is even worse than i thought. If you can't figure how to backstab someone without CC you are just horrible, plain and simple. I seriously think having to do nothing except facerolling your key sequence in order to bring someone from 100 to 30 doesen't help your class to get some skilled players, thus this is why we can see some post statements like yours which just proves how newbie you are. im not saying you can't backstab without cc, im saying the person getting backstabbed can't defend themselves to the point of making it challenging to actually backstab them. My point is most people won't pass up the opportunity to use an advantage, especially when that advantage is someone not moving or attacking for 8 seconds. By the same token someone who isn't constantly cc'd probably has the cognitive faculties to realize the need to avoid them getting to your back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubage Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 If you can't kill an operative after the initial burst you are just plain awful. Great argument backed up by solid facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahalag Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Lol, go back and read your own post if you are confused. I will be waiting for you to show a quote from me talking about scoundrel heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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