Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[-Morrigan-]

no update on this yet?

[Hairless]

I will probably pay for the first month of sub but I am pretty sure I won't pay for the 2nd month if the poor responsiveness and combat fluidity doesn't get fixed.

Really don't want to waste my time with a game that can't be competitive.

[WrecklessMEDIC]

I will probably pay for the first month of sub but I am pretty sure I won't pay for the 2nd month if the poor responsiveness and combat fluidity doesn't get fixed.

Really don't want to waste my time with a game that can't be competitive.

 

Thanks for comin out.

[Lctl]

Wow it only took ya both ...2 threads to agree on? !

 

 

World peace is possible!

 

Edit : i meant raptor and xcore.

 

Perhaps now this can actually gain extra force, since a divide betwen personal distinct opinions and the issue at hand was eating posts.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Lctl

[Owarida]

In any case, the IA video I am willing to argue and concede Client/Server Communication latency/lag etc. However the smuggler example is really what 90% of the people in this thread are noticing glaringly and that is, bad design... bad coding... bad ideas... bad everything.

 

Furthermore, it is the first step to bad PvE Endgame and PvP Interaction in general.

 

If you're referring to my video(I haven't read this whole thread yet), I get 55ms on a bad day and never have any choke or loss that would cause lag.

[asbalana]

Well I hit Tatoonine today on my lvl 25 trooper with about 4500 HPs and immediately found myself facing mobs with 9500 HPs that hit pretty hard. The fact that one third of my casts did not fire and some that did caused no damage or did not stun made the fights challenging. There is just nothing like being flawlessly attacked by an AI guided melee elite and having your knockback go pffft or your stuns fire and have no effect.

 

My suggestion to BW, to make the fights better for noobs like me is to introduce a mob rng. They could have one third of the mob's attacks misfire and one third of those that do fire not hit. They can introduce a mob probability factor so that when they cast a stun it hits only a percentage of the time. Since my play style is clunky, delayed, misfired, and not hitting it would be fairer and promote a uniformity of pve game play if the mobs were clunky, delayed, misfie, and not hitting as well.

 

In other words, I am starting to get frustrated. To my horror, I found myself thinking about ditching this game and going back to WOW, which I abhor, just to be able to play a responsive character and actually enjoy combat. As some others have posted, I am at the point that I do not give a rat's tail what is causing the issues. I just want them fixed so that I can play without the foremost combat strategy being the anticipation of game caused screw ups and planning how to work around them. I do not participate in pvp so can't even begin to imagine how bad that is.

[Zeetofox]

Well I hit Tatoonine today on my lvl 25 trooper with about 4500 HPs and immediately found myself facing mobs with 9500 HPs that hit pretty hard. The fact that one third of my casts did not fire and some that did caused no damage or did not stun made the fights challenging. There is just nothing like being flawlessly attacked by an AI guided melee elite and having your knockback go pffft or your stuns fire and have no effect.

 

My suggestion to BW, to make the fights better for noobs like me is to introduce a mob rng. They could have one third of the mob's attacks misfire and one third of those that do fire not hit. They can introduce a mob probability factor so that when they cast a stun it hits only a percentage of the time. Since my play style is clunky, delayed, misfired, and not hitting it would be fairer and promote a uniformity of pve game play if the mobs were clunky, delayed, misfie, and not hitting as well.

 

In other words, I am starting to get frustrated. To my horror, I found myself thinking about ditching this game and going back to WOW, which I abhor, just to be able to play a responsive character and actually enjoy combat. As some others have posted, I am at the point that I do not give a rat's tail what is causing the issues. I just want them fixed so that I can play without the foremost combat strategy being the anticipation of game caused screw ups and planning how to work around them. I do not participate in pvp so can't even begin to imagine how bad that is.

 

You were clearly attempting to do a 2 man heroic quest by yourself, your fault. im 45 and regular mobs have 4.5k strong have 12.8kish.

[asbalana]

You were clearly attempting to do a 2 man heroic quest by yourself, your fault. im 45 and regular mobs have 4.5k strong have 12.8kish.

 

Nope, they did not show up as heroic. One (I forget the name) was actually a class quest on a disabled ship right before I hit Tatooine where I had to fight five mobs the last of which had 9500 HPs. One of the earliest quests (where you fight the bug people) has a bonus quest (not heroic) where you have to fight a 10,000+ HP boss. I had dinged to 26 by then so could handle the 9.500 guys (when mostly everything fired) but did not have the horse power to do the 10,000 HP guy. I will come back and try him again when I hit 27.

Edited January 6, 2012 by asbalana

[Zeetofox]

Nope, they did not show up as heroic. One (I forget the name) was actually a class quest on a disabled ship right before I hit Tatooine where I had to fight five mobs the last of which had 9500 HPs. One of the earliest quests (where you fight the bug people) has a bonus quest (not heroic) where you have to fight a 10,000+ HP boss. I had dinged to 26 by then so could handle the 9.500 guys (when mostly everything fired) but did not have the horse power to do the 10,000 HP guy. I will come back and try him again when I hit 27.

 

Then you're either really bad or you're too far along in your class quest and it's too high for you. They're intentionally designed to be easy to solo esp w/ a companion.

[Flebberflep]

Nope, they did not show up as heroic. One (I forget the name) was actually a class quest on a disabled ship right before I hit Tatooine where I had to fight five mobs the last of which had 9500 HPs. One of the earliest quests (where you fight the bug people) has a bonus quest (not heroic) where you have to fight a 10,000+ HP boss. I had dinged to 26 by then so could handle the 9.500 guys (when mostly everything fired) but did not have the horse power to do the 10,000 HP guy. I will come back and try him again when I hit 27.

 

Strong, Elite and Boss mobs are immune to stuns etc. Seems normal to me, just don't bother wasting your time trying to stun them.

[Unravell]

^^^ little offtopic guys

 

bumping this for great justice

 

i just spent the night pvping on my sentinel, i wasnt even playing wow before this but im abot to go resub just because i want a breath of FRESH AIR of crisp combat. How laggy/delayed/horrible this pathetic excuse for PVP is i cant even begin to describe... I'm just really frustrated and venting, so tired of not being able to interrupt, mashing ability hoping it will go off, being rooted BY MY OWN master strike animation, being chain CCed because resolve bar is worthless..

 

 

Basically, ive not felt this frustrated in a video game in a long, long time. Sad thing is, every time i play now it frustrates me more and more.. im so close to quitting :/ and its a shame because im such a star wars fan and bioware fan :(:(

[asbalana]

Then you're either really bad or you're too far along in your class quest and it's too high for you. They're intentionally designed to be easy to solo esp w/ a companion.

 

LOL, first time I have been called bad in this forum. I use to love to watch the people insult each other over in WOW land.

 

In any case, Tatooine is rated levels 24 to 26 I believe and I hit it at leve 25. There are a bunch of level 1500 mobs and some 4400s running around so the 9500s can probably be skipped but I like to do all of the content in a game the first time through. The class quest is the one you get at the end of Nar Shaddaa and I did every quest on that planet.

 

Yes most of the quests are easy (especailly with the healer companion). My experience is that if the delay is not bad and most casts fire and hit, the harder quests are fun and doable. It is spotty and I have different experiences from day to day. When there are issues as described in this thread, the fights get frustrating and become hard. I do have a top notch gaming rig, all drivers are current, and ping about 35ms.

 

Anyway, good night to you. I'm off to bed.

[Light_Valkyrie]

Wow, if you can't interrupt a 2.5 sec cast as is you should go play ruenscape or something.

 

I know your trolling pretty hard here but since I'm generous.

 

Instant cast interrupt that actually takes 2 seconds to fire off or sometimes doesn't fire off at ALL.

 

How2fix this?

[Stephieweather]

This is a really good post, but I think it would be best if it were worded concisely, i.e. less opinions and more elaboration on the root of the problem. I'd like to interject my own thoughts on this matter to help with the discussion.

 

 

People play good games because they believe they're being legitimately challenged. Character responsiveness in TOR detracts from the challenge and makes it unbelievable/unfair.

 

For instance in World of Warcraft, when a player fights in the battleground, they enjoy the combat because the player believes his abilities are going off at the right time. They are winning or losing based on their strategy, gear, ability rotation etc. Yes lag does occur, but it is usually because of server issues, maintenance, etc. It doesn't play a factor into the "reality" of the game world. Players enjoy World of Warcraft because it gives a player a believable avatar to play, and their actions are immediately rendered on screen at the touch of a button.

 

With TOR game play, the issue is obvious: bad character response is part of the reality of the game world. You can either choose to accept it and play, or find another game. Either way ability delay is a detractor because its always going to be there. Is correcting this problem easy to fix for programmers? No, which is why World of Warcraft is still the only one who has this feature down well. Can it be done? Of course, but it takes time, and a willingness on behalf of the developers.

 

MMOs come out thinking the way to topple WoW is to create niche content, when in reality all should have done was create tight game play. Bioware has the story down well, but it's missing the key element of online play: believable control.

 

If you want to create a good game, you have to make the player believe they are controlling their avatar. From there, you build.

[MichaelKage]

The ability delay problem is present even with perfect conditions but it compounds even other circumstances: +lag + low frame rates + hectic pvp + warzones + peak play hours + smuggler cover

[Hairless]

Wasn't there a beta period for this game?

It baffles me that this problem wasn't caught during Beta. Or did Bioware just choose to ignore it?

[Zeetofox]

I know your trolling pretty hard here but since I'm generous.

 

Instant cast interrupt that actually takes 2 seconds to fire off or sometimes doesn't fire off at ALL.

 

How2fix this?

 

That's just a huge exaggeration, it's pathetic. It's a fraction of a second delay which CAN be annoying and CAN cause you to miss fast casting interrupts, but there is no way it would take 2 seconds to go off.

[Light_Valkyrie]

That's just a huge exaggeration, it's pathetic. It's a fraction of a second delay which CAN be annoying and CAN cause you to miss fast casting interrupts, but there is no way it would take 2 seconds to go off.

 

Lightning storm proc often takes 1-2 seconds extra just to fire off an instant chain lightning too. It CAN and IS a problem. I shouldn't have to hit any hotkey more than once if the GCD is done.

[Zeetofox]

Lightning storm proc often takes 1-2 seconds extra just to fire off an instant chain lightning too. It CAN and IS a problem. I shouldn't have to hit any hotkey more than once if the GCD is done.

 

Once again either a huge exaggeration or a combo of a MS problem and the delay problem. Either way the ability delay itself is not 1-2 seconds its a fraction of a second.

[Hairless]

That's just a huge exaggeration, it's pathetic. It's a fraction of a second delay which CAN be annoying and CAN cause you to miss fast casting interrupts, but there is no way it would take 2 seconds to go off.

 

 

Nah. I don't think it's an exaggeration.

I've seen clearly longer than one second delays happen with instant abilities like interrupt and cover pulse(sniper). Not all the time but it happens often enough.

It usually happens when I am already casting an ability with cast time, then I try to cancel the cast by moving/jumping and try to do my instant ability.

 

For example, i am fighting an NPC.

I am casting my Ambush at him, then i see the NPC casting his 3 second cast spell.

So i immediately cancel my cast for Ambush and try to cast my instant interrupt.

It just doesn't happen. I am spamming the hell out of my interrupt key and the NPC still gets to finish his 3 second cast spell. It's retarded.

Just so it's clear, I am not a slow interrupter. I have great reflex so I am not just being a delusional baddie here trying to blame the game for my slowness.

 

I have 19ms to my server. I don't play on wireless with 3 others sharing the connection.

Only I use my Internet connection because I am very anal when it comes to latency for gaming.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Hairless

[Zeetofox]

Nah. I don't think it's an exaggeration.

I've seen clearly longer than one second delays happen with instant abilities like interrupt and cover pulse(sniper). Not all the time but it happens often enough.

It usually happens when I am already casting an ability with cast time, then I try to cancel the cast by moving/jumping and try to do my instant ability.

 

For example, i am fighting an NPC.

I am casting my Ambush at him, then i see the NPC casting his 3 second cast spell.

So i immediately cancel my cast for Ambush and try to cast my instant interrupt.

It just doesn't happen. I am spamming the hell out of my interrupt key and the NPC still gets to finish his 3 second cast spell. It's retarded.

Just so it's clear, I am not a slow interrupter. I have great reflex so I am not just being a delusional baddie here.

 

I have 19ms to my server. I don't play on wireless with 3 others sharing the connection.

Only I use my Internet connection because I am very anal when it comes to latency for gaming.

 

Then it is clearly your guys' faults because i have adapted to the problem and i play around it. So stop falling into the same problem over and over and play around it and get used to it until they fix it like they said they will. But hey if they don't fix it we can just all go back to our old MMO's or w/e. Until then i see no logical reason for everyone to keep saying the same thing over and over. I run around 80 MS on a 'good' day so if i can do it, then you can with your 19 MS.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Zeetofox

[Lashxe]

Haven't played many mmos before, but I've been noticing this since the beta and I felt it was really aggravating. People told me it was latency so I believed them and attributed this to problem with the mmo genre. I feel it especially with longer channeled abilities. The animation is really annoying and i feel like it encourages me to button spam because I'm trying to shoot off my skills in rapid succession. Telling us to ignore this while we play seems pointless as it appears every time we use a spell that requires a channel. Perhaps we should play classes that do not require channels then?

[Hairless]

Then it is clearly your guys' faults because i have adapted to the problem and i play around it. So stop falling into the same problem over and over and play around it and get used to it until they fix it like they said they will. But hey if they don't fix it we can just all go back to our old MMO's or w/e. Until then i see no logical reason for everyone to keep saying the same thing over and over. I run around 80 MS on a 'good' day so if i can do it, then you can with your 19 MS.

 

 

How exactly is anyone supposed to adapt to this problem?

There is nothing I can do to make the ability go off when the problem I described happens.

Maybe you are fine with your abilities not going off randomly because you play slower than a turtle but this is a very annoying issue for the majority of the gamers.

Edited January 6, 2012 by LexiCazam
Insult

[ochow]

Holycrap, Bioware has some issues to resolve lol. Its funny how there are huge issues like this that really hurt the game. Yet Bioware is fixing emotes, and gold farming issues. Some people can't delete quest from their logs, and can't grab new ones because of the 25 quest limit. Thats ok though, there are bigger issues like people messing up the game economy.

 

To not be overly negative I will say that SWTOR is a pretty cool game. I thoroughly enjoyed the campaign. It definitely beats any other MMO on the market in that respect. I love that leveling a toon doesn't feel like a chore, and I'm eagerly waiting a continuation to the story.

 

Now for my critics. Overall combat smoothness obviously needs a revamp, but the customer service has been horrible. WoW has its issues, but it was a successful game because of Blizzards customer service. We all have our stories of Blizzards GM's and how retarded some of them where, but right now I wish we had them in this game. To end my rant, BIOWARE TALK TO YOUR CUSTOMERS THATS WHY THESE FORUMS EXIST! "WE ARE INVESTIGATING THIS ISSUE" WILL NEVER SUFFICE. Please Please Please don't be another Final Fantasy XIV

[Halofax]

So is anyone in this thread playing a video game, or should i assume you want this to be a spread sheet?

 

I mean god forbid you cant choose all your abilities at the start of the fight and be ready to collect your free purples faster.

 

This isn't WoW.

 

If you want third party programs to help your lack of skill go unnoticed get out. Playing a game here not working a part time job.