Recent actions against some customer accounts

[LogicalPremise]

Let me make sure -- absolutely sure -- I have this straight.

 

Multiboxing exploiters use a wpvp trick to have chests (boxes?) respawn rapidly so they can loot them rapidly, so they can take the credits and sell them. BW catches, warns them.

 

Huge argument because the BW rep was imprecise in his wording and now people are up in arms

 

 

So.

 

Will I be banned for sending credits to my guildy / alt? - This is not why they were given warnings. They were given warnings for using an exploit to rapidly loot chests , more frequently than they should, and selling the credits. That has nothing at all to do with you sending cash.

 

Will I be banned for grinding credits in a level appropriate area? - This is not why they were given warnings. They were in a level inappropriate area.

 

Will I be banned for looting chests repeatedly? - This is not why they were given warnings. They were not looting repeatedly, no matter how many times some people in this thread want to keep rehashing that language. I reiterate, they were using an exploit to loot the chest every 20 or 30 seconds. They did so knowing it was an exploit and not normal behavior.

 

Will I be banned for farming chests on Ilum if I am not level 50? - This is not why they were given warnings. If you are clever enough to get to the boxes without dying and can loot them, great. When you are seeing crap like packs of level 10s escorted by high level characters who then AFK for hours , that is an exploit.

 

Will I be banned for <insert random garbage here> - This is not why they were given warnings.

 

 

Reading all 80+ pages of this trainwreck has literally reduced me to the point of ignoring several dozen people just so I never, ever have to listen to their twisted idea of logic or textual interpretation again. This is not difficult. It's not a moral issue. It's not "your right" or anything else.

 

If you use a blatant exploit that requires you to deliberately subvert multiple elements of gameplay for financial gain you will get banned. It's not like "I didn't know". Again, when there are whole packs of these botting farmers out there, you will also lose your cool.

 

 

The people defending them are using the excuse "The rep's language is unclear! I just want to make sure I won't get banned for x", where X has exactly zero to do with the act in question. Some people have (rather uncivily) suggested these people are messed up in some way, which I disagree with.

 

They are simply being contrary because they got caught, or they feel they should have the right to violate the rules. Period. The BW rep clearly stated at one point, after a long listing of normal actions, that the perps "did nothing even close to that". And yet people continue to selectively read what they want to read.

 

Arguing against that sort of thing is pointless and why Bioware is not bothering responding to lots of posts on these forums. After 30 days, the axe-grinding people who have nothing to contribute and scorn for everything will be gone. It happened in RIFT. It happened in STO. It happened in WoW. And it will happen here.

 

Don't get so upset.

[Leggomy]

It is because of those "semantics" you have a right to even post online. Further it is because of those "semantics" you are even using the operating system you are using.

 

For the clueless here is a definition:

 

"The word "semantics" means the interpretation of the meaning of a word or sentence. So if someone says you are just playing with semantics they are probably trying to tell you that you are avoiding the real issue involved in whatever it was you were talking about. So, instead of responding to the substance of what was said you may be focusing instead on arguing over the meaning of some word or phrase. People often quibble over semantics when confronted with a difficult or unpleasant topic to avoid dealing directly with it."

 

Which is what you did with that sentence FYI.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Leggomy

[JadenStar]

If you find something in the game, that no one else finds and that in clue's the dev's, an this object or ability give you advantage over others. that is exploitation of the game and it is a no no, I agree people should be suspended or banned for it.

[Tenetke]

Now 2c could apply except for the fact that it requires a principle to be defined. The definition for principle is

 

1

a : a comprehensive and fundamental law, doctrine, or assumption b (1) : a rule or code of conduct (2) : habitual devotion to right principles <a man of principle> c : the laws or facts of nature underlying the working of an artificial device

2

: a primary source : origin

3

a : an underlying faculty or endowment <such principles of human nature as greed and curiosity> b : an ingredient (as a chemical) that exhibits or imparts a characteristic quality

4

capitalized Christian Science : a divine principle : god

 

We can rule out 2,3,and 4 again for obvious reasons. That leaves us with 1. If you were to look at 1a though it requires a definition of what exactly is against the rules, and we have agreed they will not provide that. Same with b.

 

So by looking at the definition you will find that there is no actual rule in place. Now if by your definition you define "right" as not breaking a rule, and "wrong" as breaking a rule.

 

If a rule is broken, the person is wrong

If a rule is not broken, the person is right

Since there is no rule, it can not be broken, then the person is either right or the person is neither.

 

I know these posts have been long, but I wanted to give you an example of how people can come to the wrong conclusions if they don't use the definitions for the words they use. Honestly at this point you could only argue that there is no "right" or "wrong", and Bioware simply punishes people arbitrarily if they feel like it. That I would agree with completely, but what is that saying to you about them.

 

Oh, and I think based on my other posts you can tell I'm not someone that just wants to bash them. I love the company, my join date alone should tell you how long I've been a fan. My problem is that people defend something, that really shouldn't be defended. If something is against the rules then they should define the rule and make it clear.

[Tenetke]

 

Will I be banned for sending credits to my guildy / alt? -

 

You can't define why someone would be banned, only they can and they won't. What does that tell you?

[Leggomy]

Now 2c could apply except for the fact that it requires a principle to be defined. The definition for principle is.

 

 

Another example of playing semantics. You want to quibble over the meaning of a word or phrase.

[xngxng]

and doing that repeatedly .. camping .. and making how much?

 

like I said before:

 

If a mount costs 1,500,000 credits I dont get why you think gathering 1 million credits should get you banned.

 

But I understand the exploit thingy, I hate farming its just tedious and waste of time, people keep running gathering things for days at end because they want the best gear/collectibles/achievements. I dont care at all about that, my highest char is only lvl 31 and all I want to know is what the limit is, is it really 1,000,000 credits. Is that really common sense as you state?

 

Common sense can never be rule, or people wouldnt have been suspended or warned for this without having a conversation with them first finding out why they were running around looting in a higher level area.

 

And to other ppl in here, goldsellers dont work these forums, they are busy playing keeping their quota on gold-income or they would get no salary. The banned people arent here either, because they are.. banned.

[Tenetke]

Another example of playing semantics. You want to quibble over the meaning of a word or phrase.

 

This is an argument used by people who are generally too uneducated to make an actual argument. I expect better from you, if I'm mistaken please let me know.

 

Also, THIS is the definition of Semantics

 

1

: the study of meanings: a : the historical and psychological study and the classification of changes in the signification of words or forms viewed as factors in linguistic development b (1) : semiotics (2) : a branch of semiotic dealing with the relations between signs and what they refer to and including theories of denotation, extension, naming, and truth

2

: general semantics

3

a : the meaning or relationship of meanings of a sign or set of signs; especially : connotative meaning b : the language used (as in advertising or political propaganda) to achieve a desired effect on an audience especially through the use of words with novel or dual meanings

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/semantics

 

We should try to refrain from using less than appropriate sources.

[Leggomy]

This is an argument used by people who are generally too uneducated to make an actual argument. I expect better from you, if I'm mistaken please let me know.

 

Also, THIS is the definition of Semantics

 

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/semantics

 

We should try to refrain from using less than appropriate sources.

 

Here is the deifnitin of playing semantics again because you seem to have missed it.

 

"The word "semantics" means the interpretation of the meaning of a word or sentence. So if someone says you are just playing with semantics they are probably trying to tell you that you are avoiding the real issue involved in whatever it was you were talking about. So, instead of responding to the substance of what was said you may be focusing instead on arguing over the meaning of some word or phrase. People often quibble over semantics when confronted with a difficult or unpleasant topic to avoid dealing directly with it."

[finibilis]

Seems like the simplest solution would be to put a timer on the containers - say 12 hours. Problem solved.

[Leggomy]

Seems like the simplest solution would be to put a timer on the containers - say 12 hours. Problem solved.

 

Why is this a good solution? We should punish everyone in the game over the actions of a few? I say ban the few and leave the chest as it is.

[finibilis]

Why is this a good solution? We should punish everyone in the game over the actions of a few? I say ban the few and leave the chest as it is.

 

Because quite simply, a timer would allow anyone to loot the container once during the specified period in the timer, ending the abuse of them, but still leaving them available to loot for all.

 

Maybe 12 hours is too long - maybe it should be an hour or two. But it resolves the problem of camping something that wasn't meant to be camped, no?

[JadenStar]

I have seen it in SWG where people farming for credits and then sell credits in game for USD and cash in the game, and if it has Started in this game Star Wars The Old Republic they better nip it in the butt now.

[graymule]

Let me make sure -- absolutely sure -- I have this straight.

 

Multiboxing exploiters use a wpvp trick to have chests (boxes?) respawn rapidly so they can loot them rapidly, so they can take the credits and sell them. BW catches, warns them.

 

Huge argument because the BW rep was imprecise in his wording and now people are up in arms

 

 

So.

 

Will I be banned for sending credits to my guildy / alt? - This is not why they were given warnings. They were given warnings for using an exploit to rapidly loot chests , more frequently than they should, and selling the credits. That has nothing at all to do with you sending cash.

 

Will I be banned for grinding credits in a level appropriate area? - This is not why they were given warnings. They were in a level inappropriate area.

 

Will I be banned for looting chests repeatedly? - This is not why they were given warnings. They were not looting repeatedly, no matter how many times some people in this thread want to keep rehashing that language. I reiterate, they were using an exploit to loot the chest every 20 or 30 seconds. They did so knowing it was an exploit and not normal behavior.

 

Will I be banned for farming chests on Ilum if I am not level 50? - This is not why they were given warnings. If you are clever enough to get to the boxes without dying and can loot them, great. When you are seeing crap like packs of level 10s escorted by high level characters who then AFK for hours , that is an exploit.

 

Will I be banned for <insert random garbage here> - This is not why they were given warnings.

 

 

Reading all 80+ pages of this trainwreck has literally reduced me to the point of ignoring several dozen people just so I never, ever have to listen to their twisted idea of logic or textual interpretation again. This is not difficult. It's not a moral issue. It's not "your right" or anything else.

 

If you use a blatant exploit that requires you to deliberately subvert multiple elements of gameplay for financial gain you will get banned. It's not like "I didn't know". Again, when there are whole packs of these botting farmers out there, you will also lose your cool.

 

 

The people defending them are using the excuse "The rep's language is unclear! I just want to make sure I won't get banned for x", where X has exactly zero to do with the act in question. Some people have (rather uncivily) suggested these people are messed up in some way, which I disagree with.

 

They are simply being contrary because they got caught, or they feel they should have the right to violate the rules. Period. The BW rep clearly stated at one point, after a long listing of normal actions, that the perps "did nothing even close to that". And yet people continue to selectively read what they want to read.

 

Arguing against that sort of thing is pointless and why Bioware is not bothering responding to lots of posts on these forums. After 30 days, the axe-grinding people who have nothing to contribute and scorn for everything will be gone. It happened in RIFT. It happened in STO. It happened in WoW. And it will happen here.

 

Don't get so upset.

 

Hands down the most eloquent, explanatory and insightful post so far.

 

I had been racking my brain trying to explain this in several posts a number of pages back. Either people do not:

 

1) Try to understand what they are reading or

 

2) Do not in any way WANT to understand simple arguments.

 

People seem to be hung up on the looting issue - when that has absolutely nothing to do with it. If some players had found a way to exploit a game mechanic to make their speeders go at 400% speed, would you stop using your speeders?

 

The issue here and what made some players get warnings and temporary suspensions was being caught exploiting - not looting. Try to look beyond the effect (instant looting) and see more to the cause (using an exploit).

 

Just play normally and you will not ever have any problems or warnings or bans. Ok?

[REiiGN]

But if they don't get them credits Jabba will have that ***. You want Boba Fett hunting you down? Whole thread is awesome.

 

Yeah, people who could give a rat's *** about Star Wars will ruin this game for others...what else would they do with their lives? Be productive?

[IImpp]

if you do not want us to go to that planet before our level. dont allow us to. problem solved.

if you dont want people to exploit your broken ****. fix it.

if you dont want people selling credits for money then involve a trade system for what the items are worth within a given range. on the auction house do the same thing. as for sending credits to alts that would be fixed with all of the above.

congrats im smarter than all your devs.

 

dont allow people to trade mass credits for nothing.

i mean really who is gonna give someone 100k credits for nothing or 1 mil credits because your my friend!

Edited January 3, 2012 by IImpp

[xngxng]

Let me make sure -- absolutely sure -- I have this straight.

 

Multiboxing exploiters use a wpvp trick to have chests (boxes?) respawn rapidly so they can loot them rapidly, so they can take the credits and sell them. BW catches, warns them.

 

Huge argument because the BW rep was imprecise in his wording and now people are up in arms

 

 

So.

 

Will I be banned for sending credits to my guildy / alt? - This is not why they were given warnings. They were given warnings for using an exploit to rapidly loot chests , more frequently than they should, and selling the credits. That has nothing at all to do with you sending cash.

 

Will I be banned for grinding credits in a level appropriate area? - This is not why they were given warnings. They were in a level inappropriate area.

 

Will I be banned for looting chests repeatedly? - This is not why they were given warnings. They were not looting repeatedly, no matter how many times some people in this thread want to keep rehashing that language. I reiterate, they were using an exploit to loot the chest every 20 or 30 seconds. They did so knowing it was an exploit and not normal behavior.

 

Will I be banned for farming chests on Ilum if I am not level 50? - This is not why they were given warnings. If you are clever enough to get to the boxes without dying and can loot them, great. When you are seeing crap like packs of level 10s escorted by high level characters who then AFK for hours , that is an exploit.

 

Will I be banned for <insert random garbage here> - This is not why they were given warnings.

 

 

Reading all 80+ pages of this trainwreck has literally reduced me to the point of ignoring several dozen people just so I never, ever have to listen to their twisted idea of logic or textual interpretation again. This is not difficult. It's not a moral issue. It's not "your right" or anything else.

 

If you use a blatant exploit that requires you to deliberately subvert multiple elements of gameplay for financial gain you will get banned. It's not like "I didn't know". Again, when there are whole packs of these botting farmers out there, you will also lose your cool.

 

 

The people defending them are using the excuse "The rep's language is unclear! I just want to make sure I won't get banned for x", where X has exactly zero to do with the act in question. Some people have (rather uncivily) suggested these people are messed up in some way, which I disagree with.

 

They are simply being contrary because they got caught, or they feel they should have the right to violate the rules. Period. The BW rep clearly stated at one point, after a long listing of normal actions, that the perps "did nothing even close to that". And yet people continue to selectively read what they want to read.

 

Arguing against that sort of thing is pointless and why Bioware is not bothering responding to lots of posts on these forums. After 30 days, the axe-grinding people who have nothing to contribute and scorn for everything will be gone. It happened in RIFT. It happened in STO. It happened in WoW. And it will happen here.

 

Don't get so upset.

 

So much generalising and hating towards the community, but yet some internal Bioware info we could not be aware of without your post. If systematic and repeated gathering was not the cause for suspensions then there is probably 80+ pages on nonsense in this thread.

 

Thread should never have been started.

[snooggums]

if you dont want people to exploit your broken ****. fix it.

 

Fixing things takes time, sometimes a feature doesn't work as expected because players behave in a way that is illogical. If an unintended effect, such as rapid resetting, needs to be addressed, the developers need to warn the players doing it to stop because otherwise the abuse will have an effect before a fix can be released through a patch or server update.

 

The abuse was so fast, it had to be addressed before the fix could be made. Like putting up a warning sign that paint it wet until it is dry.

[Tenetke]

Here is the deifnitin of playing semantics again because you seem to have missed it.

 

"The word "semantics" means the interpretation of the meaning of a word or sentence. So if someone says you are just playing with semantics they are probably trying to tell you that you are avoiding the real issue involved in whatever it was you were talking about. So, instead of responding to the substance of what was said you may be focusing instead on arguing over the meaning of some word or phrase. People often quibble over semantics when confronted with a difficult or unpleasant topic to avoid dealing directly with it."

 

No, the definition is the one I linked you, and provided the link to at Merriam-Webster. Can you link me where you obtained your definition from? It doesn't seem to click very well with the definition they have, but if it's a reputable sources we could take a look.

 

In the mean time I will assume you finally admitted from the other posts that there is no rule, and that BW is just arbitrarily punishing people. I think you will find as you progress through life (undoubtedly if you progress in the more educated paths) that "playing semantics" is not only a given, but often required. You will need to define things in very specific, very concrete terms. Even in fields that are traditionally thought of as less strict, for example philosophy. Though to be fair philosophy has far more strict standards on definitions than most fields save scientific avenues of study.

 

I suppose you might argue that the different in a int, short, and long are all semantics though. Why that would be improper is an entirely different discussion.

[Tenetke]

Just play normally and you will not ever have any problems or warnings or bans. Ok?

 

I kind of feel like this is a 101 class, you know the one that no one wants to teach but someone gets the unlucky straw.

 

What is normal? Is it your idea of normal, or is it another persons idea of normal we are basing it on? Is it Bioware's idea of normal, and if so what is that idea? It's a fairly easy question to ask, much more complex to answer.

[vextone]

"Originally Posted by LogicalPremise

Let me make sure -- absolutely sure -- I have this straight.

 

Multiboxing exploiters use a wpvp trick to have chests (boxes?) respawn rapidly so they can loot them rapidly, so they can take the credits and sell them. BW catches, warns them. "

 

It was never stated in the OP that the "abuse" was from multiboxers, never!

 

So now I doubt the rest of your eloquent facts..

[Aniaden]

So there was an actual exploit to make chests spawn? Not just ppl with the skill level to go farm chests.

[LogicalPremise]

"Originally Posted by LogicalPremise

Let me make sure -- absolutely sure -- I have this straight.

 

Multiboxing exploiters use a wpvp trick to have chests (boxes?) respawn rapidly so they can loot them rapidly, so they can take the credits and sell them. BW catches, warns them. "

 

It was never stated in the OP that the "abuse" was from multiboxers, never!

 

So now I doubt the rest of your eloquent facts..

 

I've seen them myself, with my own eyes, on Ilum. I hardly need the OP BW rep to tell me this, I reported some of them!!

 

I don't give a bent penny whether people listen to me or put me on ignore as long as they don't decide that histrionics should decide what is and isn't an issue.

[LogicalPremise]

So much generalising and hating towards the community, but yet some internal Bioware info we could not be aware of without your post. If systematic and repeated gathering was not the cause for suspensions then there is probably 80+ pages on nonsense in this thread.

 

Thread should never have been started.

 

Hating on the community? I'm sorry, but this concept that everyone deserves respect came around long after my time. When I grew up, if you wanted respect you had to earn it. I refuse to bother to listen to anyone who isn't going to take six seconds and apply basic common sense to an issue, like some are here.

 

Any time I see someone performing semotics and linguistics to words like "excessive" I know I'm dealing with people I'd rather not. That is not "hating". Hating would be to insult these people and dismiss their arguments using ad hominem attacks. I'm dismissing their arguments because they have all the logical consistency of pond water. They're probably nice people.

 

Internal Bioware info? No, this is what I saw with my own eyes. Others saw it and reported it as well.

 

Nevertheless I grant your point -- the OP was ... man. Badly worded. Very, very badly worded. And it's pretty clear they are NOT going to fix this exploit, which infuriates. We have an 80+ page thread because someone is too busy doing the CYA Safety Dance to simply get out there and say this:

 

"You know very well if you are level 10 you have no business on a level 50 planet. If you can get there and loot something, great. If we catch you colluding with other players to loot the same node 5 times in a minute, and then selling the credits, we're going to warn you. Once. This has nothing to do with grinding, looting, or anything a normal player would ever, ever do.

 

Why is that so hard?

[vextone]

I've seen them myself, with my own eyes, on Ilum. I hardly need the OP BW rep to tell me this, I reported some of them!!

 

I don't give a bent penny whether people listen to me or put me on ignore as long as they don't decide that histrionics should decide what is and isn't an issue.

 

This exploit would be wasteful for multiboxing. It only takes one character to loot a chest.

AND

Since /follow is broken I doubt anyone could tell a multiboxer from a single boxer.

 

But then the whole issue is stupid. If people would rather farm for credits than spend 20 hours questing god bless them.

 

Now since BW/EA doesn't allow the RMT's that's a no no.

 

What's next, stopping all the hardcore gamers who reached 50 that farm comms and gear because, OMG SOMEONE IN A GAME IS GETTING SOMETHING I'M NOT BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO DO IT THE WAY THEY ARE!!!?

 

and while we're at it could you stop people from selling stims cheaper than missions cost to get the materials? lol