Recent actions against some customer accounts

[KrelosDarksky]

any player can reasonably go to ilum and loot the same chests. if the player were lvl 50 would they have gotten suspended for looting the same chests in a systematic and excessive way, and not letting others loot them? if not then the explanation that we were given was not accurate. it did not say that going there at a low level was unreasonable only that they were doing it too long. if the same player went back at 50 and did the same thing would they get suspended for doing it too long?

 

Any player can REASONABLY go to ilum and TRY to loot the same chests.

 

The key is REASONABLY.

 

As depicted in the various threads, no one in an MMO is likely to spend more than an hour or so on a reasonably generic task.

 

When a person bots multiple accounts for DAYS with the intent and purpose of farming some such item ... THEN there is an issue.

 

Please .. don't try to justify credit farming by bending words and circumstances.

[monegames]

Any player can REASONABLY go to ilum and TRY to loot the same chests.

 

The key is REASONABLY.

 

As depicted in the various threads, no one in an MMO is likely to spend more than an hour or so on a reasonably generic task.

 

When a person bots multiple accounts for DAYS with the intent and purpose of farming some such item ... THEN there is an issue.

 

Please .. don't try to justify credit farming by bending words and circumstances.

 

many players like me have been playing mmos for over 10 years and have played games where we camped mobs in one spot for many hours a day for weeks. for me it would be nothing to spend a few hrs or even days doing the same task. not everyone that likes to farm is a gold seller.

[Yorp]

As depicted in the various threads, no one in an MMO is likely to spend more than an hour or so on a reasonably generic task.

 

I did one space mission for 10+ hours per day for straight 2 days in a row. I did gain huge amount of experience and credits.

 

Is this reasonable? No.

 

Was I crazy to do that? Yes.

 

Should I get warned/banned for it? No. And yet I gained more credits in that one repeated mission than from farming Ilum

Edited January 3, 2012 by Yorp

[IrisZ]

You will not ever be able to control the economy in an MMO. It is a living thing and banning people for making too much money is only going to alienate some of your player base. Planned economies don't work in real life and they don't work in MMOs.

 

Wrong. Ever heard of a game called Maplestory?

The servers of Maplestory are mostly run by gold farmers.

The amount of virtual currency that goes in and out of Maplestory in real cash from the goldfarmers is millions a year.

[kiwigirl]

What The Heck??

 

Going to a planet, for which you don't fall into the level range, and looting lockboxes, which are sitting out in the open for that reason, is considered an exploit? Seriously? Are you really saying that?

 

So what about "farming" mats on a planet below your level range to sell the mats? Is that an exploit too? Or is it only an exploit if the planet is above your level range? If so, please explain the logic behind that. Or is there a number of nodes you have to collect in a certain amount of time before it hits the exploit level? If so, what is that node-to-time ratio so people aren't getting one of those nifty suspensions or warnings?

 

No one was exploiting anything. It was there and they went after it. It was a flaw in your game design and rather than fix it, you went after the player base. I couldn't believe this post when I read it. You couldn't even give a good explanation of why it is exploiting(because it's not). You simply fell back on the "Terms of Service" which is a total copout.

 

I love this game, but that was one of the most ridiculous things I have read on this forum. And the fact that it came from you, of all people, is disheartening.

 

This right here exactly!

[fordpre]

Well a better fix might be to massively increase the aggro radius of players under lvl 40 on Illum ie, they come from half way across the map and gank players who are under lvl 40 that would fix it fairly quickly Whilst it seems a little unfair to penalise people for using this design flaw I am sure many people would be complaining like mad about exploiters who figure out some way to solo an ops boss especially if they figured out a way to do it over and over with no phase lock. This is an issue that affects other players as it impacts negatively on those who have reached 45+ going to Illum to gather stuff.

[monegames]

This is an issue that affects other players as it impacts negatively on those who have reached 45+ going to Illum to gather stuff.

 

no it doesnt since they are better equipped to gather them, they have speeders and can get to the nodes before someone without it. they also have better ways of getting money(dailies) so these are not being used by them anyway.

[Truga]

many players like me have been playing mmos for over 10 years and have played games where we camped mobs in one spot for many hours a day for weeks. for me it would be nothing to spend a few hrs or even days doing the same task. not everyone that likes to farm is a gold seller.

 

This.

[Gilbara]

good work Bioware.

 

I am getting emails sent to my characters now with 1 credit gift and telling me to buy credits online at a website. should i just delete them, or also submit a ticket?

[Speedlag]

It's good to see they give us some explanation's on why they did it.

However, now when I play I'm worried that I somehow break the rules by doing anything, being this strict will only bring uncertainty to the playerbase and to be frank, I want to play games where I don't have to worry about getting banned, I suspect I might not be alone.

[DariuszPol]

Banning people because they use in-game content that is available to them show 3 things:

1. Lack of experience from developers

2. Stupidity of customer service

3. How linear and stupid this game is. What. You do something outside "what bioware folks think you can" and you get banned ? So what ? If I go to planet 8lvl above me then I will get banned to ? How stupid is that ?

4. They didn't do ANYTHING out of ordinary. You CAN travel to Illium. You CAN loot stuff there. You CAN sell them. There is NOTHING wrong here. NO bugs were exploited. NO protection was cracked. NOTHING. And yet they got banned. Some of them permanently as you said.

 

This is one of MANY reasons why I'm not going to play this more than my free time. Lack of content, customer support, problems like this, technical problems and loot of other things show me that this game is not even CLOSE to other MMO on the market except voice acting AND that there is nothing interesting that would keep me in game for more than month or two.

 

Sorry folks. You were doing great job creating some of your games from the past. You did terrible job with Dragon Age II and Mass Effect II as company. And another part of Bioware just sowed us that you DON'T know how to make MMO games and how to handle customers.

 

Too bad that years of your work will go to waste. At least I hope that you will have enough subs so you don't need to move to F2P ****zone.

[graymule]

Hi All!

 

Been reading this for the last 2 hours now and have decided to try and clarify some things.

 

1) Firstly, let's all try to be civilized, ok? So far - both in-game and on these forums i've been struck by the (mainly) great level of maturity the community displays. Would be sad to see that go.

 

Now, to the matter at hand. Some clarifications - at least as I see them having done my best to gather as much info as I could on this whole situation.

 

2) No-one has been banned or temp-banned or warned for farming. No-one will be banned for farming. Farming is ok. Farming is, and always will be, normal gameplay. Feel free to farm 24/7 if you like (as long as you're not botting)

 

3) No-one has been banned or temp-banned or warned for visiting Ilum with a low-level char. No-one will be banned for visiting Ilum with a low-level char.

 

4) No-one has been banned or temp-banned or warned for slicing. In fact - this situation has not in any way, shape or form been connected to slicing.

 

So, what have people been WARNED or temp-banned for?

 

5) Mis-using game mechanics deliberately to gain significant advantages and in the process riskinig destabilizing the game economy. In this instance, it seems to have been done by colluding with the opposite faction to INSTANTLY reset storage boxes and / or gathering nodes. Let me clarify - being on Ilum, sitting next to a node or storage box and camping has NOT been any problem at all. What has been a problem has been participating in this exploit. Saying that one doesn't know that this was an exploit really does not cut it. Common sense anyone?

 

What have people been perma-banned for?

 

6) Selling credits for real-world money to other players. Note that Stephen Reid - in his post - chose to report these two actions together. However, nowhere in his post does it actually say that these two issues are related. First issue - accounts were perma-banned due to botting and selling credits for real-world money. Second issue - people were temp-banned or warned for using an exploit - NOT for farming, camping, visiting Ilum with a low-level char. Two separate issues.

 

Again - No-one has been banned or warned in any form for camping, farming, looting or any other normal gameplay means. Would I object to people being banned or warned for camping or farming? Absolutely. While I consider (myself) camping indefinitely to be somewhat rude and detrimental to the game - if you want to play like that, who am I to object.

 

If, sometime in the future, Bioware does decide to limit the amount of times one can farm a specific node or resource I would expect them to clearly explain this beforehand. Note that this is NOT what has happened here.

 

Were all temp-banned accounts warned before the ban took place? We don't know. Could Bioware have handled this in another way? Sure. Did they handle this ok? IMO, sure - apart from perhaps not being clear enough about what happened.

 

Now, I sincerely hope that this alleviates some confusion at least.

 

So, can we all now continue to get along and enjoy the game?

[kiwigirl]

Hi All!

 

Been reading this for the last 2 hours now and have decided to try and clarify some things.

 

1) Firstly, let's all try to be civilized, ok? So far - both in-game and on these forums i've been struck by the (mainly) great level of maturity the community displays. Would be sad to see that go.

 

Now, to the matter at hand. Some clarifications - at least as I see them having done my best to gather as much info as I could on this whole situation.

 

2) No-one has been banned or temp-banned or warned for farming. No-one will be banned for farming. Farming is ok. Farming is, and always will be, normal gameplay. Feel free to farm 24/7 if you like (as long as you're not botting)

 

3) No-one has been banned or temp-banned or warned for visiting Ilum with a low-level char. No-one will be banned for visiting Ilum with a low-level char.

 

4) No-one has been banned or temp-banned or warned for slicing. In fact - this situation has not in any way, shape or form been connected to slicing.

 

So, what have people been WARNED or temp-banned for?

 

5) Mis-using game mechanics deliberately to gain significant advantages and in the process riskinig destabilizing the game economy. In this instance, it seems to have been done by colluding with the opposite faction to INSTANTLY reset storage boxes and / or gathering nodes. Let me clarify - being on Ilum, sitting next to a node or storage box and camping has NOT been any problem at all. What has been a problem has been participating in this exploit. Saying that one doesn't know that this was an exploit really does not cut it. Common sense anyone?

 

What have people been perma-banned for?

 

6) Selling credits for real-world money to other players. Note that Stephen Reid - in his post - chose to report these two actions together. However, nowhere in his post does it actually say that these two issues are related. First issue - accounts were perma-banned due to botting and selling credits for real-world money. Second issue - people were temp-banned or warned for using an exploit - NOT for farming, camping, visiting Ilum with a low-level char. Two separate issues.

 

Again - No-one has been banned or warned in any form for camping, farming, looting or any other normal gameplay means. Would I object to people being banned or warned for camping or farming? Absolutely. While I consider (myself) camping indefinitely to be somewhat rude and detrimental to the game - if you want to play like that, who am I to object.

 

If, sometime in the future, Bioware does decide to limit the amount of times one can farm a specific node or resource I would expect them to clearly explain this beforehand. Note that this is NOT what has happened here.

 

Were all temp-banned accounts warned before the ban took place? We don't know. Could Bioware have handled this in another way? Sure. Did they handle this ok? IMO, sure - apart from perhaps not being clear enough about what happened.

 

Now, I sincerely hope that this alleviates some confusion at least.

 

So, can we all now continue to get along and enjoy the game?

 

Stephen Reid clearly states in the third paragraph of his post that in fact #2 of your list did occur and people had been at the very most temporarily banned for doing it. That is why so many people are worried.

 

"a smaller number of accounts were warned or temporarily suspended for exploiting loot containers on Ilum...they were systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers resulting in the game economy becoming unbalanced."

Edited January 3, 2012 by kiwigirl

[monegames]

Hi All!

 

Been reading this for the last 2 hours now and have decided to try and clarify some things.

 

1) Firstly, let's all try to be civilized, ok? So far - both in-game and on these forums i've been struck by the (mainly) great level of maturity the community displays. Would be sad to see that go.

 

Now, to the matter at hand. Some clarifications - at least as I see them having done my best to gather as much info as I could on this whole situation.

 

2) No-one has been banned or temp-banned or warned for farming. No-one will be banned for farming. Farming is ok. Farming is, and always will be, normal gameplay. Feel free to farm 24/7 if you like (as long as you're not botting)

 

3) No-one has been banned or temp-banned or warned for visiting Ilum with a low-level char. No-one will be banned for visiting Ilum with a low-level char.

 

4) No-one has been banned or temp-banned or warned for slicing. In fact - this situation has not in any way, shape or form been connected to slicing.

 

So, what have people been WARNED or temp-banned for?

 

5) Mis-using game mechanics deliberately to gain significant advantages and in the process riskinig destabilizing the game economy. In this instance, it seems to have been done by colluding with the opposite faction to INSTANTLY reset storage boxes and / or gathering nodes. Let me clarify - being on Ilum, sitting next to a node or storage box and camping has NOT been any problem at all. What has been a problem has been participating in this exploit. Saying that one doesn't know that this was an exploit really does not cut it. Common sense anyone?

 

What have people been perma-banned for?

 

6) Selling credits for real-world money to other players. Note that Stephen Reid - in his post - chose to report these two actions together. However, nowhere in his post does it actually say that these two issues are related. First issue - accounts were perma-banned due to botting and selling credits for real-world money. Second issue - people were temp-banned or warned for using an exploit - NOT for farming, camping, visiting Ilum with a low-level char. Two separate issues.

 

Again - No-one has been banned or warned in any form for camping, farming, looting or any other normal gameplay means. Would I object to people being banned or warned for camping or farming? Absolutely. While I consider (myself) camping indefinitely to be somewhat rude and detrimental to the game - if you want to play like that, who am I to object.

 

If, sometime in the future, Bioware does decide to limit the amount of times one can farm a specific node or resource I would expect them to clearly explain this beforehand. Note that this is NOT what has happened here.

 

Were all temp-banned accounts warned before the ban took place? We don't know. Could Bioware have handled this in another way? Sure. Did they handle this ok? IMO, sure - apart from perhaps not being clear enough about what happened.

 

Now, I sincerely hope that this alleviates some confusion at least.

 

So, can we all now continue to get along and enjoy the game?

 

actually no were did it say that any of the temp bans were handed out for glitching the chests to make them respawn. it said systematic and excessive looting. so if you watch the chest spawns and create a system so you can loot them in an efficient manner and do it for "too long" then you can get your account suspended.

[Fliksan]

From comments @ Darth Hater:

 

"I was farming Ilum since i got my speeder. I wasn't on one place doing loot - relog - loot farming. I was traveling around whole open pvp area and looting containers / scavenging nodes.

 

My profit per hour was like 150+150 grade6 metals + 70000-80000 credits per hour. Is this exploiting? Why should be? This is how every legit gatherer farms.

 

I did not stay at one place reloging and still got a warning. Still don't know what is bad on my behavior. "

 

That type of stuff right there is ridicilous. I can understand if people were exploiting their way to riches. Just running around on a speeder and collecting stuff for hours though, and the guy gets a warning? That's just dumb. I don't know how many hours I spent in WoW going around gathering nonstop to make money.

[graymule]

Stephen Reid clearly states in the third paragraph of his post that in fact #2 of your list did occur and people had been at the very most temporarily banned for doing it. That is why so many people are worried.

 

"a smaller number of accounts were warned or temporarily suspended for exploiting loot containers on Ilum...they were systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers resulting in the game economy becoming unbalanced."

 

Sigh. The "systematically and repeatedly" thing Stephen talks about? That IS the exploit involving colluding with the opposite faction in order to INSTANTLY reset the timer on the storage boxes and / or gathering nodes.

 

Naturally also, if someone was not actively facilitating the exploit but were in fact "just" using it, well of course that is also a type of exploit.

 

Ok, real world analogy:

 

Let's say you tamper with an ATM to give you double the amount of money you actually type in on the keypad? Illegal.

 

Let's say Joe Chum comes along, withdraws money from this ATM (not being the one to tamper with it, just using it) and gets double compared to what he typed in. Do you seriously think he would not be forced to pay back the excessive amount. Do you seriously think he could just say "not my fault that the ATM gave me too much, how can I be responsible for that?". Not a crime to the same degree, but he would be required to pay back the extra money - it would be understood implicitly that this was an exploit.

 

Stephen is NOT talking about "normal" camping or looting. Can we all now just agree on that?

Edited January 3, 2012 by graymule

[DariuszPol]

Then FIRST POST A WARNING to that player. They used in-game feature that WORK AS IT IS DESIGNED. I don't see "exploit" here and farming is natural.

 

I would understand if someone would warn them and Bioware would do something about reseting that boxes but no. They were banned for using in-game feature and that's the problem.

[monegames]

Sigh. The "systematically and repeatedly" thing Stephen talks about? That IS the exploit involving colluding with the opposite faction in order to INSTANTLY reset the timer on the storage boxex and / or gathering nodes.

 

Stephen is NOT talking about "normal" camping or looting. Can we all now just agree on that?

 

where did he say that they were using an exploit to make them respawn faster? I would like to see it.

[humpacactus]

Sigh. The "systematically and repeatedly" thing Stephen talks about? That IS the exploit involving colluding with the opposite faction in order to INSTANTLY reset the timer on the storage boxex and / or gathering nodes.

 

Stephen is NOT talking about "normal" camping or looting. Can we all now just agree on that?

 

Can you post some proof that it was from colluding with the opposite faction in order to do this? Stephen Reid doesn't touch on it at all and definitely makes it sound as if it was only from excessive farming.

[Yorp]

From comments @ Darth Hater:

 

"I was farming Ilum since i got my speeder. I wasn't on one place doing loot - relog - loot farming. I was traveling around whole open pvp area and looting containers / scavenging nodes.

 

My profit per hour was like 150+150 grade6 metals + 70000-80000 credits per hour. Is this exploiting? Why should be? This is how every legit gatherer farms.

 

I did not stay at one place reloging and still got a warning. Still don't know what is bad on my behavior. "

 

That type of stuff right there is ridicilous. I can understand if people were exploiting their way to riches. Just running around on a speeder and collecting stuff for hours though, and the guy gets a warning? That's just dumb. I don't know how many hours I spent in WoW going around gathering nonstop to make money.

 

That guy was me and that is profit per hour. I was there several times. For a total of 5-6 hours. Because farming there is nice, but boring after while. So total profit is like 500k from farming there for me. And yes, i got warned for that.

[graymule]

Can you post some proof that it was from colluding with the opposite faction in order to do this? Stephen Reid doesn't touch on it at all and definitely makes it sound as if it was only from excessive farming.

 

Sure - it's right in his post:

 

"a smaller number of accounts were warned or temporarily suspended for exploiting loot containers on Ilum...they were systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers resulting in the game economy becoming unbalanced."

 

Emphasis on "exploiting" mine. Do you see now? He does not say "too long a time using loot containers" or "staying too long in one place looting...". He clearly says "exploiting".

 

Now, he does not elaborate on exactly what type of exploit was involved. But a definition of exploit in this situation is using an unintended consequence of game mechanics to gain advantage in an unfair way. He does not in any way talk about normal - or even excessive - "legal" looting.

Edited January 3, 2012 by graymule

[monegames]

Sure - it's right in his post:

 

"a smaller number of accounts were warned or temporarily suspended for exploiting loot containers on Ilum...they were systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers resulting in the game economy becoming unbalanced."

 

Emphasis on "exploiting" mine. Do you see now? He does not say "too long a time using loot containers" or "staying too long in one place looting...". He clearly says "exploiting".

 

Now, he does not elaborate on exactly what type of exploit was involved. But a definition of exploit in this situation is using an unintended consequence of game mechanics to gain advantage in an unfair way. He does not in any way talk about normal - or even excessive - "legal" looting.

 

no he never said they were using an exploit to do what they were doing only that they were exploiting(taking advantage of)loot containers on Ilum.

[humpacactus]

Sure - it's right in his post:

 

"a smaller number of accounts were warned or temporarily suspended for exploiting loot containers on Ilum...they were systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers resulting in the game economy becoming unbalanced."

 

Emphasis on "exploiting" mine. Do you see now? He does not say "too long a time using loot containers" or "staying too long in one place looting...". He clearly says "exploiting".

 

Now, he does not elaborate on exactly what type of exploit was involved. But a definition of exploit in this situation is using an unintended consequence of game mechanics to gain advantage in an unfair way. He does not in any way talk about normal - or even excessive - "legal" looting.

 

In no way does he talk about colluding with the opposite faction either. He says exploit and explains exactly what the player was doing "systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers..."

 

Stephen Reid even says "They also warned and temporarily suspended - but did not ban - a smaller number of accounts for activities on Ilum that were decided to be game exploits."

 

Emphasis on "decide to be game exploits." They decided that "systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers..." was an exploit.

 

That's exactly what he said and there is no reason to believe otherwise until some other proof or announcement is made.

 

EDIT: Did you just make up the colluding with the opposite faction bit entirely or what? If you have proof we could end this silly thread now.

Edited January 3, 2012 by humpacactus

[graymule]

no he never said they were using an exploit to do what they were doing only that they were exploiting(taking advantage of)loot containers on Ilum.

 

But exploiting IS using an exploit. It's the very definition of the word. This regardless of whether you were the one instigating the exploit or not. Go back and read my analogy with the ATM machine, that might explain it better.

[monegames]

But exploiting IS using an exploit. It's the very definition of the word. This regardless of whether you were the one instigating the exploit or not. Go back and read my analogy with the ATM machine, that might explain it better.

 

no the definition of exploiting is taking advantage or this:

 

ex·ploit

2    [ik-sploit] verb (used with object)

1. to utilize, especially for profit; turn to practical account: to exploit a business opportunity.

Edited January 3, 2012 by monegames