Tanking stats question...

[Malichai]

What secondary stat helps our tanking the most? Defense rating? Absorb rating? Both? I'm not really sure what enhancements I should be looking at putting in my items, any help would be great!

[Malichai]

Nobody?

[DarkwingMarmot]

It's still a little early to really tell what the best stat for BH is atm.

 

Absorb helps mitigate damage when we block with the shield.

Shield Rating increases the block chance.

Defense reduces the chance we are hit.

 

The big thing I'm seeing is that as a tanking BH, we get ALOT more support for shield type stuff than defense. We have no benefit to evading attacks, and we don't get skills that boost our defense.

 

Shields, on the other hand, we get a total of +12% shield chance and 6% absorb from skills alone. We have abilities that proc on blocking with the shield, abilities that refresh when you block, etc.

 

So I would have to say go for Shield Rating and Absorption as secondary stats. But that doesn't mean shun defense gear! It just means if you have a choice between the two grab the one with more shield rating than defense, but defense is still good!

[Malichai]

Thanks very much for the info.

[UnsungCesspool]

What secondary stat helps our tanking the most? Defense rating? Absorb rating? Both? I'm not really sure what enhancements I should be looking at putting in my items, any help would be great!

 

Here is what I posted on a seperate thread.

 

 

As of right now, Defence is our worst scaling stat..and heres a breakdown.

 

Note: This is BEFORE Diminishing returns.

 

Defence = .035% per point

Shield = .06% per point

Absorb = .106% per point

 

Now heres another interesting tidbit @ 100 rating

 

Defense rating suffers ~2.79% loss due to DR

Shield rating suffers ~1.3% loss due to DR

Absorb rating suffers ~5% loss due to DR

 

Imo, I would stack focus on Shield > Absorb > Defense. When Absorb hits 150 raiting (roughly 40%), then swap the priority to defense.

 

I have yet to find a "Soft/hard" cap on shield to the point where the DR become "too much"

 

Keep in mind this is before we get combat logs, at which point we can figure out just how much accuracy is truely needed.

 

TLDR:

 

Below 150 Absorb: Shield > Absorb > Defense

Above 150 Absorb: Shield > Defense > Absorb

[MigSebes]

^ Pretty much hit the spot.

 

Shield Rating, then Absorb, then Defense.

[Malichai]

Great to know! Thanks again.

[Catalan]

^ Pretty much hit the spot.

 

Shield Rating, then Absorb, then Defense.

 

Shame the itemization on end-game gear does not represent this.

[MorningMusume]

Shield Rating is the worst tanking stat for Mean Mitigation.

 

Yeah, is 0.06% per point, but only reduces damage by your Absorb (around 40% at level 50 with purple gear). Also, as a 2 roll system, only the non-avoided hits by defense can be shielded (if you have 15% defense and 40% shield, you'll only shield 85%x0.4 = 34% of the hits).

 

Take a look at the Mean Mitigation formula, I'll do an spreadsheet in a few hours for easy stat comparison.

[MigSebes]

Shield Rating is the worst tanking stat for Mean Mitigation.

 

Yeah, is 0.06% per point, but only reduces damage by your Absorb (around 40% at level 50 with purple gear). Also, as a 2 roll system, only the non-avoided hits by defense can be shielded (if you have 15% defense and 40% shield, you'll only shield 85%x0.4 = 34% of the hits).

 

Take a look at the Mean Mitigation formula, I'll do an spreadsheet in a few hours for easy stat comparison.

 

You have to remember it's not only about mitigation but the fact that we have not one but TWO procs based on our Shields.

[MorningMusume]

I know there are two procs (both threat based), but both have internal cooldowns, and a 50% chance on shield, so your odds are minimal increasing Shield Chance. If you wanna extra threat at the cost of mitigation is up to you.

 

My spreadsheet, I'll probably do a new topic about it anyway. The Open Office is the original file, excel and google docs version can have some visual bugs.

 

http://www.mediafire.com/?r5dgi6t3g0wd5wn

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au6Yg4iBM3q8dG5Wa1VXQTF2aUotamY3ejRPa1kxMEE

[Leygo]

good one, probably the same as mine (for the vanguard).

(for a look: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvTpJt5fNwfGdGJBVXhoZk1MSktTeUtPZ0JibXNSWmc )

but I tried a bit to find the best distribution for a given amount of secondary stats:

 

points	dps	def	shield	absorb0	450.06	  0	0	    0100	433.32	 70	0	   30200	418.12	130	0	   70300	404.30	200	0	  100400	391.72	270	0	  130500	380.19	300	30	 170600	368.73	260	110	230700	357.35	240	180	280800	346.22	230	240	330900	335.43	230	300	3701000  325.03	250	350	400

 

 

so shield rating is getting "better" with better gear. I'm around 630 secondary stat points in def/shield/absorb atm (while having another 270 or so in accuracy.. thanks to these accuracy-mods :-/ )

Edited January 3, 2012 by Leygo

[MorningMusume]

Good table

 

The sweet point is when the relative stat values on my spreadsheet are almost equal.

[Catalan]

Shield Rating is the worst tanking stat for Mean Mitigation.

 

Yeah, is 0.06% per point, but only reduces damage by your Absorb (around 40% at level 50 with purple gear). Also, as a 2 roll system, only the non-avoided hits by defense can be shielded (if you have 15% defense and 40% shield, you'll only shield 85%x0.4 = 34% of the hits).

 

Take a look at the Mean Mitigation formula, I'll do an spreadsheet in a few hours for easy stat comparison.

 

Only the non-avoided hits get shielded.... well that's a no-brainer..... What would be the point of shielding a dodge?

 

The point is, if the attack gets through our defence, and lets face we've got bugger all defence mitigation compared to other tank classes, you are better off shielding and absorbing it than not... surely?

 

My PT is currently sitting at ~12% defence, ~49% shield, ~46% absorb and ~51% armor. That's with some Columi, some Champion but also a few bits of moddable with epic mods concentrating on shield/absorb rating. My guildmates say I'm the easiest tank to heal through HFPs by a long way.

 

We still don't know the full details of the roll system. Let's wait for combat logs before you waste time on spreadsheets.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Catalan

[MorningMusume]

No, is not a no-brainer, WoW works on 1-roll system, you can get the full-hits out of the table if avoidance + shield chance >100%. On a 2-roll system you can't get the full-hits out of the table until shield=100%.

 

A simple example:

 

1 roll system:

 

50% defense, 50% shield chance

 

0 hits

50% avoided

50% shielded

 

2 roll system:

 

50% defense, 50% shield chance

 

25% hits

50% avoided

25% shielded

 

On a 1 roll system, Shield Chance is better than on a 2 roll system.

 

For my healers I'm the best tank they have healed, that doesn't mean anything. I have around 16% defense, 38% shield chance, 42% absorb, 50.5% damage reduction. Anyway you have better gear than me, I have a total of ~640 defensive stats on all gear, and you ~780.

Edited January 3, 2012 by MorningMusume

[Leygo]

 

We still don't know the full details of the roll system. Let's wait for combat logs before you waste time on spreadsheets.

 

well, we do know the basic principles.

2-roll system, even confirmed by of of the designers.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=425&page=5

 

 

btw: the difference between the optimal distribution and something a little suboptimal is really small. e.g. in my model (8044ac, 1000 points, 1000 unmitigated dps)

optimal: 250def, 350shield, 400absorb -> 303,8 incdps

heavy-shield-absorb: 600shield, 400 absorb, no def -> 309,4 incdps

no healer will ever notice 2% difference. a well timed interrupt, cryo grenade, def-cd has a much higher impact.

 

this is a basic model, not factoring in crits, enemy-misses/accuracy. maybe there are attack which leave a dot, even if shielded, but not when dodged? .. I don't know.

the main idea of both spreadsheets should be: more is better, the "optimum" seems to be a good mix of all three stats.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Leygo

[Tenacity]

I'm of the mind right now that shield rating is the absolute best stat (after armor and endurance, of course) for shieldtech tanks. Shielding in this game is nothing like blocking was in WoW - WoW blocking reduced a static amount of damage based on the shield's block rating. Here, shielding an attack reduces a percentage of damage, so the benefit of shielding attacks increases with the amount of damage your opponent does.

 

Right now I'm sitting at 45%~ damage mitigation from armor (vs kinetic and energy), with a 42%~ shield chance and 35%~ shield absorbtion. My defense, without putting any focus on it whatsoever, is at 11% or so. Those numbers are pretty much from gear that I have on me after hitting 50, havent done any raids or endgame flashpoints yet (no healers at 50 on my server yet), so they can only go up from there. I notice very little increase in actual survivability from defense rating, we get the lowest benefit from it out of the three tanking secondary stats (shield rating, absorbtion rating, and defense rating). It should only be taken over the former two when there's no other option.

 

Edited January 3, 2012 by Tenacity

[Catalan]

For my healers I'm the best tank they have healed, that doesn't mean anything.

 

Sorry, let me be a little bit clearer on that. I sounded like I was beating my own drum...

 

On the same HFPs using a similar-geared PT, Assassin and Juggernaut, it is the concensus of my guild healers that PT is miles in front in terms of mitigation.

 

Thanks for the link to Georg's post, hadn't seen it.