We're really off topic but to all the posts above talking about gear= skill and balance and what not. Here's an analogy> Playing SWTOR PvP is the same as going to the super bowl, and having TEAM A "The Pros" start with 30 points and TEAM B "The Newbs" start with 0. Letting the game run as normal, then congratulating TEAM A "The Pros" for doing so well in the game and having so many points at the end of the match. It's a joke, they're not better- they started off at an advantage, if TEAM B "The Newbs" won that would be skill.

I, and others, have gotten chars to 50, logged into a match, and dominated another player. (stunlocked, rooted, interrupted, etc.) and lost, because- and ONLY because they have gear superiority. In MMOs, PvP is decided 70% of the time by gear, and stats. Not by player ability, skill distribution, range, or rotation. When Bioware adds stats like 'resilience" they created gear dependency. They created a game where you can tank 50% of my damage (in a DPS set) I don't have that, therefore you're doing 100% of your damage while I'm doing 50%, plus you have more health, and I of course having worse gear have less. You already have a 50% handicap, you've already won 50% of the fight. (Yes these numbers are made up but you can understand the concept) Handicaps change the game, and change the outcome. You cannot argue against that, nor will communication change your enemies stats. It's an advantage that a truly "skilled" player wouldn't need.

I'm suggesting (among other things) that being frozen in place while people pound of you for 4-5 seconds, only to be knocked back and then stunned for another 4-5 seconds, or to be frozen and dropped from 100% to 0% health isn't enjoyable AT ALL. So, if you remove a lot of the stuns in the game there would be more actual PvP going on and not 3-4 people ganking you and stunlock/ spanking you. Which is boring as crap. (for all the people involved) SWTOR is supposed to be Player vs. Player not Player vs. resolve bar. Or player vs. frozen punching bag. I can get the same experience pvping in SWTOR that I can get in WoW hitting a training dummy, omg the fun!

It's already dumbed down, 1-2-3-4 is the same if your target is stunned or not stunned. There's nothing incredibly complicated about MMOs there never has been. I don't understand how people go on and on about how DIFFICULT PvP is. I can login, after having not played for 2 months or so, respec my chara, run into pvp and score top 4 in the entire match, over and over (again that's if I don't get 1st) This isn't complicated, video games haven't required skill since Super Mario, they require common sense.

try 13% of every mmo ever released, a lot of MMOs have a lot less stuns... ALOT less. People refer to this game as STUNWARS, if every MMO was stunlock crazy, they wouldn't call it that. In fact in WoW the only class that can stun as much as almost ALL the ACs in SWTOR is the rogue, it has crazy diminishing returns.

I played WoW for 5 years, all my friends played WoW- the first thing they said when we started SWTOR was "holy crap what's with all these damn stuns?!" when you ask them today about SWTOR (Because they quit) they all say "oh that game where you spend an entire match stunlocked? Yeah that game sucks."

There aren't as many stuns in WoW WoW has better EXP rewards and SWTOR said during development this game wouldn't be LIKE WoW... but it is. So it's like WoW in the stuff that sucks, but not like it in the parts that are good- exp and enjoyment. And in reply to the post above, level 20's and below do better because they scale more and get a better overall boost to stats, one you start focusing your stats, i.e. putting points into crit, then you get more into crit and less into everything else. Thus the 20s have higher stats spread out, and end up with higher dps than a 40. (I checked by comparing my 40 to my 20 and lower charars) Finally people are focusing WAAAY to much about my comment of skill, yes this game requires skill to succeed. However you could be the most skilled player in the world, but in the 50 tier, without gear (i.e. you JUST hit 50 and went into PvP) you WILL get DESTROYED No questions asked, finally communication matters ONLY if the other team is communicating. I've won pvp matches where nothing but trolling was going on in chat, and NO ONE was communicating, I've lost matches where people were constantly communicating. It's not that important, nor do these SWTOR warzones require an immense amount of tactics or teamwork. They're pretty straightforward and incredibly easy to understand, this isn't chess. =P

well, I've played every class (Republic side) on SWTOR, and unless I'm having a bad day or there's a REALLY good player on, I'm at least top 5 of the whole match, or top 3 of my team. (if not number 1) for whatever I'm currently doing, heals/ tanking/ dps whatever. I'm no league/ Arena player, but in PUGs I score high. So (in response to that OBVIOUS trolling above) time spend doing something WELL counts towards time doing something. Again, I'm no pro, but 1st in dps out of a full WZ 5-6 games in a row means I don't suck. This game has a lot of issues, yes BIOWARE is getting burned a lot. I feel for them, they wanted this MMO to be so much... and well it's not. Its like watching an exciting movie, with a lot of boring gameplay in between. EDIT: It's kinda weird to see (every patch, every thread) people talking about how balanced SWTOR is, and how it's the most balanced MMO ever. Only to have Bioware come out a couple days later and say it isn't and hotfix something, no MMO is perfectly balanced, it's mostly balanced, as close as they can get it. SWTOR is incredibly unbalanced right now. Just pointing out a humorous observation

I don't mean to be rude but I have played mmos since SWG launched, and played almost every AAA mmo (and some crappy ones) since then. I understand the mechanics, I understand chara building- etc. I'm saying that actual skill plays a minor role, and that the stunlocking, gear stacking, nonsense isn't enjoyable.

I've seen a lot of posts like this, but honestly a lot of people are missing the mark. Here's the short version. 1: PvP has too many stunlocks 2: PvP maps are boring/ bland 3: PvP is more about gear than actual skill 4: Classes are unbalanced 5: EXP rewards for warzones are a freakin' JOKE All these issues contribute to the overall lack of enjoyment in PvP, I can make the list larger, I can make it smaller, we can all add to it or remove it. Lemme expand here, I understand people go on about skill in MMOS, but that plays a very small factor. Let's break it down. Level > Gear > Stats > Skills > Balance > Team Work > Skill Skill is significantly less important that everything else in MMOs. You give a WoW newb a level 85 fully geared arena set chara and have him run into PvP- he's already at a 70-80% advantage, the same is true in SWTOR because WoW and SWTOR are irritatingly similar. PvP becomes GvG or Gear vs Gear, then throw in the insane amount of stunlocks in this game, which might as well be commercials during PvP. (Because it's boring and you don't care) the stacked classes doing insane DPS, and other classes doing MEH dps, and you go... *** Bioware? I understand the community has differing opinions, I understand you may/ may not agree with me- that's fine. This is my personal opinion about why SWTOR's PvP is the worst I've ever seen in a MMO that matters. Also, I understand that 1.3 is going to increase exp rewards, I'm going to re-sub to check it out, but if the exp rewards aren't doubled or tripled, I'm gonna quit again- but that's me. Thanks for listening guys. NOTE: Also, for people that go "no game can survive without having a carrot on a stick, or a grind, or other stupid pointless things..."I would like to point out the popularity of TF2, counterstrike, CoD, BF3, League of legends, etc. They have a path you unlock, but you're on equal footing from the second you login on all those games. (unless you're really bad! =P)

The problem exists in the fact one guy can stun you and 3-4 guys can attack you and it doesn't break CC, whereas if it DID break CC I could at least kill 1 or 2 of them and help my team, instead... I WATCH the game from my chair going... this is boring.

I never asked for simplicity, nor did I say the ACs were unbalanced, and the NGE was SWG trying to copy WoW... which SWTOR is already closer to WoW the the NGE ever could be. The ACs being copies is dumbed down, because there's no roles, no depth, no heirachy of this class beats that class beats this class etc. I'm stating that I, as a PvPer, representing not the ENTIRE PvP playerbase, but myself- and of course people with my point of view, dislike PvP in SWTOR because A: ) Bioware promised it would be a PvPers dream, the exact polar opposite of World of Warcrafts PvP (which it's not, in fact every change seems to bring it more in line with the "typical mmo") B: ) That gear wouldn't matter (It does) EDIT: Stupid auto smilies No I don't have the quotes, and I'm not here to offend or argue with anyone, I'm trying to determine if I should continue spending $15 a month hoping for something that will probably never come, or if Bioware has stated, or if anyone has heard of them actually creating the environment they talked about, that I was so completed hyped about before they launched and did a 180* on half their game.

This below is obviously my opinion... because I'm writing it. With the large amounts of stuns, CCs, resolve being broken, constant stunlocks that last long enough to be dpsed at least down 70-80% of your hp and the introduction of Resilence (which bioware said they'd never do) and the swtor being a GvG (Gear versus Gear) environment merely labeled as PvP I am frustrated, Bioware promised us a world where skill mattered, I do not see this, they promised us a world were gear was simply for looks, yet the release PvP gear with resilence, and stats that are increaseling more varied as you level. As a PvPer this frustrates me, I despise GvG combat, I miss the old days of video games where the games simply existed, Counter Strike had just guns- you either sucked or suceeded, no complaining. Quake, Rune HoV were all streamlined, JUST the guns/ weapons- no stat boosts, no skill trees, nothing. You had a set field of resources and you succeeded or sucked, now a days there's so much "customizability" i.e. ... none at all, because everyone merely copies the build that other guy had. I suppose I'm jaded, I'm amazed to see "Real PvPers" and "skilled players" and etc talking about having BETTER gear, which in reality is a handcap in these games, if you spend 3 months getting gear that 50% better then a newb coming into PvP, congrats to you, good dedication. But you're using a 50% HANDICAP going into PvP which means your kills use 50% less skill to accomplish, therefore you're 50% WORSE then the newb, especially if he manages to beat you in combat- in short, with end game PvP gear on if you lose to a "newb" you're the newb. My long rant needs to end, my question - mostly directed at Bioware - is, do you plan on changing this at any point in time, because honestly the only thing that really drew me to SWTOR was the "skill based" PvP, and I haven't played SWTOR in almost 2 months because I'm just not seeing it, if this is the trend then I'm afraid I'm just going to have to cancel and go play Diablo 3, because it may be a kill-loot-repeat, but at least they're honest about it.

Don't insult other people by saying without a carrot on a stick we'd go brain dead. There's thousands of LoL players and there's no gear there, it's all equal at start and SKILL wins. Some people just LIKE to PvP. Unfortunately there's a bunch of short sighted people that would rather GvG (Gear vs Gear) I for one would rather have all gear REMOVED from the game and have it only be cosmetic, and have your stats be allocated based off your level, your spec and a few talent tree like decisions you make. Thus truly making this a PvP and not a GvG. MMORPG PvP is a freakin Joke, and it stopped being funny in WoW.

I'm an actual PvPer, I don't want levels, I don't want gear, I don't want items, I don't want progression. Because the gear in MMORPGS are a handicap, you do 50% more damage, take 50% less damage, and have alot more skills. THat means you come into a game with a 50% (per stat) HANDICAP. If you come into a PvP match with a 50% handicap and don't take 1st you need to ALT+F4 and uninstall. A player with ACTUAL skill wouldn't NEED a handicap, in fact I'd rather go into PvP with negative stats (like halo skulls) Don't sit here and complain because they're leveling the playing field, making it easier for people to outfit their PvP alts (they barely play) so they can come in and kick your butt royally. Complaining about PvP armor is complaining that without an advantage you have no skill. I say give everyone end game armor (or no armor) and let people EARN their 1st place.