The players of this class keep perpetuating the myth they cant do anything outside of stealth.. because they dont want to be nerfed.. or are just horrible players themselves.. even a badly played melee spec OP facerolls equally geared players of equal level. I have a Full pvp geared lvl 50 BH/Merc... 15.6k health... 30% mitigation to physical(65% with shields up). Smuggler... from stealth drops me 14k HP during the knockdown... i pop trinket...shield... then use a stim...heal back to about 10k health.. Smuggler DOES NOT GET BEHIND ME.. doesnt restealth... pops me for 4.5k, 3.5k, 2.5k and im dead... The class is broken..period...maybe some of the attacks arent beign flagged correclty as physical damage? maybe the idea of giving them a skill that ignores armor was poorly thought out? Maybe they should suffer the HEAT buildup in the same way a BH does... 3-4 big attacks and you cant fight without using Vent heat... Its not player skill... our guild has an Oerative healer who has played healer from 1-50 and never played the concealment spec... He switched to the concealment spec aka the one that needs nerfing... on day 1 he was killing everyone with ease, including fully pvp equipped 50's and he wasnt familiar with the spec at all...there is no skill, just a broken class. Hes also killed players 4 vs 1 without any assistance.. he IS a biochem howver so the perma-stims help... but the point being , no experience...day 1, faceroll everybody. Theres a few ways to fix it, but the main thing it should not be doing is insta-gibbing both light armor users AND heavy armor users with the same amount of ease.. Ops and smugglers shouldnt get armor piercing. Force users are the ones who should be tearing up armor users (we get very low resists to elemental aka "Force" users spell damage. Ops as they are dont only insta-gib//faceroll squishies, they instagib everything 1 on 1 except very well geared tanks... whome they simply take a bit longer to kill. Thats what needs fixing... they should be weak to either "Force users" or "gunners aka BH/Commando types" , not OP against everything. That gives them a role... and more importantly...BALANCE. or coming soon= 8 operatives vs 8 smuggler premades. Of course just in case they dont fix it ... I think most pvpers are rolling OP/Smugg alts.... I know i am

The insta-gib burst has to go... Why.. 1 op is bad enough ...now imagine a team of 8 OPS/Smugs.. Lets see... 2 ops...work together and double up on 4 players.... each pair instagibs 1 player each with around 25k of burst damage... unhealable, just a dead palyer. now its 8 vs 4... they attack again... ....total time to clear a cap...about 14 seconds... The from stealth MELEE attacks of these classes needs a rethink...period.

QFT. Climbing MT Everest is hard too.. if it wasnt it wouldnt have been such a huge achievement when Edmund Hillary and Sherpa Tenzing Norgay did it in the 1950's Basically...some people like climbing mountains... others whine about how hard it is and never do it themselves Kudos to those who ground out 60 (except apparently the guy who botted it on Fatman).... its definitely a heck of a grind... just hit 57 myself.. about 140 matches to go it seems mussst keep climbing

The most important aspect in huttball is PASSING and getting in position for quick passes/goals. As a stealther you can get into position and destealth to receive a pass and be totally usefull....more so in that role than anyone who cant stealth. When the opposition has the ball you spend time trolling your own defensive line and making sure enemies who are in good positon to receive passes die horrible deaths via your insane burst dmg combo and you have the best CC in the game to use directly against carriers and their support. the main thing however is the passing//receiving game, doing it yourself and denying it to the other team = winning huttball 99% of the time.

Ok... burst DPS on a Full PVP geared 50 Smugg vs Full PVP geared 50 Merc (15.5k hp)... unmitigated burst of about 19k with crits.. (enough to take 13-14k during the knockdown though 36% dmg mitigation) Actually the knockdown is probably the most broken thing about scoundrel//operative melee ganking, the damage isnt so bad by itself...its the length of time they get to attack a helpless target during the knockdown without fear of retaliation which is the most broken....they they vanish though DOT's...and do it again. I think unstealthing needs a global timer with vanish... so they are vulnerable for 10-15 seconds after opening. BW should also Fix the knockdown animation so it takes ~1 second to be back fighting... then revisit the equation. OP... without changes, yes...... they in desperate need of some tweaking to SOME aspects of the burst/CC/Vanish equation... Stealth that resembles Combat cloaking in Stark Trek online would be prefect... need 20 seconds to recloak ...and cant cloak for 20 seconds after taking damage. i.e as a melee operative or scoundrel you might gank me...but doing so if im not alone should get you killed by the 3 others sitting at the cap. the "get out of jail free" aspect is whats most broken right now..

Agreed on the bracketing... as a lvl 50 i now take a good look at the team roster and if i see less than 4 other 50's... and see the opposition team is all 50's I just go into "Frag mode", get my 8 medals and forget winning... because actually trying to win is pointless when the other 7 ppl on the team are lvl 10-15.. as a "lowbie" i used to think i was doin ok...but thats because there werent any 50's around .. nowdays as a PVP geared 50 I typically have 4500 more hitpoints and significantly higher damage, crit rating, accuracy and bonus damage than a fully twinked out level 10 does Not to mention dmg mitigation and more "tools" to use.. To say a PvP geared 50 dominates vs lower levels is an understatement.... it consists of ...3 shots crit hit... kill...next target...4 shots...kill...next target... attacked by 2 lowbies...kite a bit if they are melee...spam DOTS...kill 1...kill the other... still have 50% health......heal...next target... Type to team... ohh im being hit..its a level 10... let him beat on me for a few shots... decide i should shoot back... kill him in 4 shots...next target. Level Brackets are badly needed.

Even when the objective points are 1 sided in favor of Rockworms, Rockworms score 1st and the game ends up a 1/1 draw..... please fix this so a TIE credits both sides equally.. OR make it so the winner is the side who accrued the most objective points. Its broken to just always declare Frogdogs the winner on a TIE GAME. Ive seen to many "lost" games this way.. a Tie is a Tie...

only issue with that is if you had 60 bags thats 180 centurion tokens...youd be geared... exaggerate much ?

Force speed and any other run buffs should be disabled for huttball for the ball carrier. If the sorc/sage isnt carrying...their runbuff should be active... other than that minor change... nothing to see here.

To the OP (Orig Poster) So Much Whining, Envy and Jelousy you have... Classes balanced they are, mirrored they be, Sage and Sorcerers fate(and powersets) intertwined they are. A nerf to one would be a nerf to all... much suffering will this cause to many. path to the dark side it is .. Basically your either losing because your bad and making your team worse off... or just unlucky. My experience is totally different.. Republic premades dominate a good part of the day on Jekk Jekk Tarr... they more than hold their own.. at other times the Empire wins. But thats because they are good players who work together... 1 good player cant do much if they have 7 terrible team mates. The common thread for PVP success is teamwork... get 3-4 GOOD players who know what to do and when, and its a different game. As has been said many many times.. the classes are mirrored, if the SI is overpowered , the Sage is too because they share the same powersets.

Really depends on what you are after, snipers have more burst as do sentinels and marauders once they get in melee range. Both tend to do less "overall" damage...but a heck of a lot more burst dps and are better at killing a single target.... but wont top the damage charts that often. BH's forte is "Burst"AOE's punishing enemies who cluster together too closely, not lethal, but great for setting up an assault, great on capture maps where your have groups of enemies clustered around the turrets.. Ive been playing a BH/merc/arm as a main , it does pretty well and i top the dps charst a lot but you have to work to get a good damage string to overcome healing,. BH is more layered damage than burst though, it has a long setup time to get a killing blow... like 3 tracers, time delay missile(forget the name , explodes a few secs after shooting and adds a good "kick" to the unload phase), heatseeker,unload,2xtracer rail... Most targets are dead by that point. but the whole chain takes maybe 15 seconds to execute, so its not entirely burst dmg and you need to be sitting still the entire time. So yeah , like others , Best DPS is very situational and dependant on what you are trying to achieve.

I find im often focused on my Merc... and kudos to the teams thats realise its a good move to kill me and other DPSers.. just like good DPS should focus fire on healers and sniper classes 1st. BH/Merc is far from OP... just decent DPS and good AOE's ... they will top the damage charts if left alone, or in battles where the enemy clusters together.. like any other DPS class will. They also happen to need to be pinned in place to do ANYTHING DPS wise or Heal wise and are almost useless in moving//mobile fights and are incredibly vulnerable to crowd control.. that makes them vulnerable to melee classes AND crowd control. Smugglers are a BH's ultimate nemesis... their CC is brutal ...but it doesnt make Smugglers OP. they have counter classes too. ... but according to the original poster...anything that can beat a BH easily must be overpowered also ..so NERF SMUGGLERS :eek: or the alternative.. The Orig Poster just needs to L2P

The XP gain from losing wasnt that good to begin with when compared with going and soloing PVE content..BUT the item rewards are better from pvp commendations. The nerf to losing XP wasnt needed, but maybe a nerf to commendations for losing was. There is a lot more XP from questing than pvp... It was said point blank by the devs during early access that the highest level//fastest levelling players were all doing PVE content and questing, NOT PVP(some people had made accusations of PVP exploiters getting fast levels. the Devs point blank refuted that accusation) Now winning PVP may at least give enough XP to match what a similar amount of time spent questing does.

I am ... unless im playing my Sith

11/14 and in... Thanks for a great thread all!

Pre-orders for the actual GAME charge shouldnt happen untill the 20th or whichever day the vendor actually Ships the physical box or sends the retail code for "Download only" versions. I got my CE from Best Buy...while they keep putting a "hold" on my card for the ~$164 charge, it never actually comes out of the account... i just get an email notification from my bank telling me the charge was made I think they wont actually withdraw the fees untill the 20th when I go to the store and pick up the game itself.