Aelanis
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Posts posted by Aelanis
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For Madness a Mid-Ranged DoT Spread Ability.
For Deception More Burst
For Tank More Self-Heals
Very simple and clean request that any developer can understand and test.
Why? For DPS we under perform in a variety of ways, but the main is we require close range and are not being rewarded enough burst for having to be on top of players. We are bottom DPS with deception.
For DPS our tanks should have self-heals. In general my advice to Bioware is they need to make it more forgiving on tanks. They are blamed often for group content failures if they miss mechanics. No one wants to tank because the entire group is dependent on the tank having a lot of familiarity with the HM and NiM mechanics on a lot of these fights. We have a storage because these mechanics are to harsh on tanks and overall way to easy on the DPS players whose only roll is usually like free casting dps with a goal of over 5k dps. That isn't really group content. Its tanks do all the mechanics dps only dps. Kind of lame imo. Put somethings on the DPS they have to do mechanically during the fight and back off the tanks and give them time and better rewards for pulling groups through your group content. I'm always amazed at how the loot mechanics work. Always drop high-end tank gear. We don't have enough. Make Tank Gear stupidly easy to obtain and have it be stronger. Less tank deaths/less wipes. More happy customers. Simply put your customer base cannot handle wiping on raids. They rage quit at the first sign of trouble.
Have you played S&V or TFB NiM? Most boring instances to tank in the game. You have more to do in most HM flashpoints.
Besides, I've seen way more groups fail due to garbage DPS than tanks or healers.
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My wish list:
- New, balanced, bug free content.
- Remove either balanced or bug free from the previous item.
- Remove the other qualifier from the first line item.
- A nice mix of survivability and damage for Hatred, by boosting the damage on Thrash somehow (proc please?) and turn the self heals into a damage absorption bubble.
- A new ability to tie burst to for Deception, both the Static Charge stacks and a little more burst back besides.
- I'd love to have my 15 second Force Speed back.
- New, balanced, bug free content.
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Why are you considering the armor rating of classes as a DPS role when during an optimized situation or boss fight, You're never expected to directly take damage.
Why push every classes dps potential so high with boss fights that demand approx 5k+ dps and sometimes less due to consideration of gaps in fights and whatnot. You're simply making the game easier.
Do you not realize that every class DPS output is already viable?
Why are you ignoring mechanical prowess from classes, and then resort to saying they have bad or poor survivability simply because another class has what you would consider an adequate amount as such.
Again something that is comprised as a DPS role, where your objective is to inflict an optimal or better amount of damage on the boss, not to survive every hit you take by usage of a cooldown or ability
Yet you use factors such as their ability to survive as a crutch to not only circumvent, but also to justify a classes damage output should be significantly higher.
If you propose changes for their dps output... you look at their dps.
Not their ability to run from a fight, survive a burst of damage, or whether the class is in light armor or heavy.
Yeah sure an operative, merc and sorc has cast heal abilities that let them heal. But from a dps perspective, that is beyond sub optimal and many cases just plain bad.
Unless you're in a position where you will NEVER receive heals from the role known as HEALER, then I wouldn't question my classes ability to survive, I would question the skill and awareness of my HEALER.
You seem like the player that is immediately disheartened simply because you say to yourself: "I will never be top dps on parse, because we have a marauder in the group, and they have the highest dps in the game."
Firstly, I wouldn't ever want to compare a Marauder's dps numbers with anything other than a... ...you guessed it... MARAUDER!
Why? The f*ck cares about other classes? Knowing another class can get better numbers than me does not mean a thing. But I compare my dps with myself and my own class.
Other players of the same class give me the insight to know I can be better!
Comparing dps with myself creates personal bests, which marks a personal achievement to be better.
But if another class has higher or lesser dps than me, but they're still well over the optimal amount, what do you hope to learn from comparing the two? Bragging rights?
Sounds like nothing but melancholy to me.
Say what you will about what you think should be top DPS or whatever, but making a sin, pt, jugg, sorc, op or merc top dps will simply dissuade them from being other mandatory roles, or make it highly convincing to fall to DPS roles.
How will you make TANK and HEALER roles appealing, when those roles are already p*ss easy without making it easier?
Your simply cutting your left arm with a more deeper wound to ignore the one on the right..
As a dps your priority should be aligned as such
1) Did you Kill the boss? Yes (go to 2) No (kill the boss)
2) Was your dps adequate? Yes (go to 3) No (improve your dps)
3) Was your dps better than your last attempt at said boss? Yes (new PB... yay! self reflection, Can I get it higher?) No (self reflection, what did I fail to do this attempt, that I did so well the last attempt at this boss fight)
Anything else is you simply spiting a class, you don't even have an valid argument to suggest a class should be better dps if it is already viable to clear all content. So what concept of 'balance' are you looking at?
Somebody never tried 16 man Cora HM on a Sorc. It didn't matter how good your healers were: if the mouse droids targeted you, you died. Survivability matters, though there is a serious lack of meaningful heal checks that matter that involve healing party members through damage. But it happens, and that's when survivability counts.
It also seems like you didn't do HM raids in 3.0, when you played a Bounty Hunter or you held your group back. This is about making class choice purely a preference. I'm also not sure if you're aware, but the suggested +/- 2% spread is pretty nearly tight enough that last place can beat first place with some luck and purely equal skill and gear optimization.
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1.2 million?! Woooooooow, I'm SO IMPRESSED. /sarcasm
I mean, people were only pulling 3 million last expansion as Hatred.
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Okay, now I want to argue against having so tight a balance.
(also update the first page; I made some minor edits on my other post)
Side Note: not all these thoughts are coherent because I made them over the course of a few weeks.
- AOE damage is not taken into effect
- The damage levels don’t have enough correspondence with rotational difficulty.
- Non-damage based utility will take priority over damage when choosing DPS.
- The damage level currently targeted is higher than the current assumed balance point for operations
- It gives a large advantage to Burst and RNG based disciplines versus Sustained DoT based Disciplines.
- I have been incorrect in the past.
Now expanding these statements:
1) Currently, there are some classes that are amazing at dealing damage to multiple opponents at once (for example Vengeance Juggernauts) without any rotational changes. Conversely there are those that aren’t (any Operative). This makes certain classes much better at dealing with multiple adds or bosses than others. It also makes balancing for PVP harder due to the inherent advantage in multiplying your damage output for each additional target. Dot Spreading is also a concern that should be addressed (and I don’t have a solution for this). One of the biggest Dot spread issues is that the ability that spreads the dots is rotational for some classes (Vengeance, Hatred,Madness,Pyrotech, Virulence), but not for others (Annihilation, Innovative Ordinance, Lethality) meaning that there is no balancing penalties for spreading those dots.
2) My damage estimations assume that all rotations are equally difficult to play perfectly. But everyone knows that perfect rotation goes out the window the moment the boss is pulled. There are both long and short rotations in the game that can sometimes be boiled down into priority lists. The harder to accomplish rotations should be the ones that reward the players that can accomplish the rotation with better dps. An in game example where this is not the case currently is the differences between Arsenal and Innovative Ordinance. IO heavily punishes players that don’t follow the strict rotation while Arsenal is forgiving with heat management. But they currently do similar damage so the 3.0 heavy IO dominance gave way to few players actually running the discipline any more. (Side note: perfectly played Arsenal has a much longer set rotation than IO; but it can easily be boiled down to a priority list instead)
3) Utility will take priority over damage while choosing DPS. This will actually be the reason that you won’t see many disciplines. An in game example where this is not the case currently is the differences between Advanced Prototype and Pyrotech. Pryotech does more damage but comes with two huge penalties (and one minor bonus): It has to stand channel 20% of the time and it does not have the 30% AOE damage reduction. (The bonus is hearing people complain about the giant showerhead of fiery doom) The best way to solve this would be to spend some time looking over the Utility and discipline trees for each class and move damage reduction abilities to utilities while moving damage increasing abilities to individual trees. The other thing to do would be to remove some of the uniqueness of discipline trees and implement some Global Utilities (for example: give all specs access to 30% AOE damage reduction at the same tier level [likely tied to stance because that would be almost too good for tanks])
4) 7000 Average Dummy DPS seems a bit high based on the ideal stated goals and current Nightmare balance. Still using the assumption that you balance for the high end and the low end sorts itself. I use the rule of thumb that the best teams can do at least 85% of their dummy DPS while still accomplishing all of the mechanics (not counting any damage boosters such as adds). But with the current participation in Nightmare raids at an all time low, it likely will not hurt to boost DPS.
5) I finally have a method to assign an expected damage range to a disciplines output. I can only give an approximate output that is based on perfect rotation and perfectly average luck. All of the RNG based disciplines should be able to outperform (and underperform) this some of the time. This also affects classes with a low number of hits that each deal large amounts of damage. With the narrowing and raising of the damage range comes the point where the burst specs are almost always the best option. There would be no downside because the sustained damage of the burst will be indistinguishable from the true sustained classes but also will have the increase in flexibility of switching targets.
6) I have been iterating through my dps estimater for a while now and everytime it gets more accurate. But it is not 100% accurate and it makes lots of assumptions that may or may not be valid in certain situations. It is very likely that there could be small differences that add up to large amounts of missing or additional dps. Therefore take everything above with a grain of salt and look for potential pitfalls I may have missed.
Other Concerns:
- We also need a good way to solve the issue of Skank tanks (Tanks in DPS gear) in both PVP and to a lesser degree in PVE. I don’t have a solution to this.
- Assassin Tanks should lose the 50% critical bonus on Shock under Recklessness if Recklessness is retooled to 100%. This is a relic pre 4.0 when Supercrit did not exist (it also makes the Recklessness change provide 10% less boost rather than 40% more). While I’m on Assassin Tanks, I would like a return of the 3% healing received buff on Assassins Shelter Utility because it matched the endurance boost so that all the tanks got the same percentage heals, but that is a different thread than DPS balance.
- Since Forum Readership is low for the combat balance team, LudhaninRolgge you should compose a nice message for Musco or Tait and ask for it to be passed to the combat team for their consideration. (I am eternally optimistic) I can also provide access to the tools I used to generate the dps values.
As a Bonus here is the Changed DPS hierarchy with damage spread included:
Rank: DPS +-Error (% vs Average) Imperial Discipline || Republic Discipline
01: 7089+-228 (+2.26%) Assassin - Hatred || Shadow - Serenity
02: 7051+-191 (+1.72%) Marauder - Annihilation || Sentinel - Watchman
03: 7039+-158 (+1.54%) Operative - Lethality || Scoundrel - Ruffian
04: 7034+-201 (+1.47%) Juggernaut - Vengeance || Guardian - Vigilance
05: 7016+-191 (+1.20%) Powertech - Pyrotech || Vanguard - Plasmatech
06: 6965+-211 (+0.47%) Sorcerer - Madness || Sage - Balance
07: 6950+-107 (+0.26%) Sniper - Virulence || Gunslinger - Dirty Fighting
08: 6947+-153 (+0.21%) Sniper - Engineering || Gunslinger - Saboteur
09: 6942+-146 (+0.14%) Marauder - Carnage || Sentinel - Combat
10: 6927+-378 (-0.07%) Assassin - Deception || Shadow - Infiltration
11: 6923+-230 (-0.13%) Mercenary - Innovative Ordinance || Commando - Assault Specialist
12: 6921+-325 (-0.16%) Operative - Concealment || Scoundrel - Scrapper
13: 6912+-311 (-0.29%) Powertech - Advanced Prototype || Vanguard - Tactics
14: 6865+-222 (-0.97%) Marauder - Fury || Sentinel - Concentration
15: 6839+-306 (-1.35%) Juggernaut - Rage || Guardian - Focus
16: 6793+-207 (-2.01%) Sorcerer - Lightning || Sage - Telekinetics
17: 6788+-265 (-2.09%) Mercenary - Arsenal || Commando - Gunnery
18: 6780+-307 (-2.20%) Sniper - Marksman || Gunslinger - Sharpshooter
Edit:
Neat Images attached:
Honestly, I think you're blowing a few of those bullet points out of the water. For instance:
- Name a single fight where your group's AoE will make or break the fight.
- None of the rotations in this game are particularly hard to execute. Maybe this is a bit biased, but most Disciplines regularly use less then 10 moves and in a very particular order. Having to adjust to a boss fight is not hard either: it just requires a time investment in practice.
- Easily your best point, and, from past examples, one I don't think the combat team can compensate for in terms of balance without simply homogenizing the classes.
- So make the DPS checks harder. Not in the 4.0 way by increasing health, but by making good DPS harder to maintain. This is a small rebalance issue, and honestly only requires some small tweaks to bandaid, if they won't put in the effort to do it right. Besides, like you implied: the true potential will rarely be seen anyway.
- Here's another thing that could easily be solved with some clever design, but again, not something I'm expecting. If the DPS checks are sufficiently tight, then you'll see a reason to take the sustained doing lightly better average DPS, or else the burst specs will need to step it up. But gone are the days of 0% Brontes wipes.
- This is all theoretical anyway, so I don't expect it will ever get noticed.
I think your miscellaneous concerns are much more pressing, to be honest.
- AOE damage is not taken into effect
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I was intentionally being arrogant there, for laughs. I've still gotta publish most of the stuff I've written.
I had no issue on my infil shadow on Toth/Zorn and Stormcaller/Firebrand.
I find the issue in high mobility fights. Underlurker HM is bad for Infil Shadow. Brontes' issue is the position requirement, and Terror you can't use Shadow Stride when fighting the tentacles/boss on the pylons which is a DPS nerf.
Shadow Stride will take you out of the circle, but I don't know if that's too much of an issue on Revan. Never done HM Revan though.
~ Eudoxia
It's more or less perfect for the pull. You do your last GCD and Stride out, get pulled back in, and keep going smoothly.
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To me the healing should be off Overload Saber since Hatred uses it the best first it needs some sort of a cooldown perk in the spec like how Recklessness is basically free in Deception. If they just mirrored that for Overload Saber that would be the most straight forward healing buff. Besides making the DOT healing worth the time. Yet I do recognize that's also a very nasty DPS buff when used properly.
1) Darkness makes the best use of Overcharge Saber, no contest.
2) The DPS boost is mostly negligible in Hatred unless you're on an AoE pull.
Otherwise it's not the worst suggestion I've heard, except that every other Discipline would complain about it.
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I may have gone a bit overboard thinking about this…
Let me start off with saying that my personal view of class balancing is that the goal is balancing, not changing the overall rotation or discipline. I like balancing that is subtle and has no visible effects. I like to focus on Discipline specific abilities to avoid cross contamination with the other advanced classes. I also don’t want to add new abilities or effects because the goal was to have simple fixes that could be done in an afternoon. If I can accomplish balancing via minor changes only, that is my preference. I try not to modify coefficients because of the chance of making a mistake is higher when working with the base level abilities.
Summary of Restrictions:
- Only working with existing Discipline Abilities.
- No adding anything new, just modification of existing abilities
- No changing Rotations or Ability priorities (excluding Madness)
- No modification of ability coefficients.
- Minimize the number of changes per discipline.
- If Quality of Life changes are convenient, include them.
- Attempt to get as close to the stated DPS values as possible with no judgements on if those numbers are reasonable.
I made a modified version of my spreadsheet to test my changes and used current 224 gear to test with.
Marauders and Sentinels
Marauder - Annihilation || Sentinel - Watchman
Current DPS: 7109
Goal DPS: 7054
Changes:
- Increase the ICD of Bloodlust || Burning Focus to 4s (from 1s)
- Increase the ICD of Hemorrhage || Plasma Blades to 4s (from 3s)
Changed DPS: 7051
Reason:
- During 3.0 there was a lot of tinkering with Annihilation to try and make it work with Force Melt. This included lowering the ICD for RNG based Resource generation. With 4.0, Force Melt was fully integrated into the rotation by making it replace Force Leap and increasing the time between Annihilate uses. But the resource generation mechanics were never reverted to normalize to the new rotation. This lead to a situation where Annihilation became a class where it would be using the basic fillers (Vicious slash) more than any other class because it had the spare resources. The changes proposed would increase the number of Assaults in the rotation in proportion to Vicious Slashes and Force Screams.
Marauder - Carnage || Sentinel - Combat
Current DPS: 6857
Goal DPS: 6935
Changes:
- Increase Critical Damage from Sever || Saber Storm to 20% (from 15%)
- Increase Slaughter || Hand of Justice Buff duration to 18s (from 15s)
Changed DPS: 6942
Reason:
- Carnage is a Burst spec that has 3 seconds of high damage to 9 seconds of low damage. Increasing the Critical multiplier on the biggest move along with the most common filler helps reinforce this while only moderately increasing the overall damage.
- Increasing Slaughter duration is a Quality of Life buff that helps eliminate rotational instability. No DPS change.
Marauder - Fury || Sentinel - Concentration
Current DPS: 6418
Goal DPS: 6853
Changes:
- Increase Critical Damage Boost from Dark Resonance || Focused Resonance to 20% (from 10%)
- Increase Armor Penetration from Shii-Cho Mastery || Shii-Cho Mastery to 20% (from 15%)
- Increase Critical Chance from Cruelty || Decisive Slashes to 10% (from 5%)
Changed DPS: 6865
Reason:
- Fury needed a large boost to get it to the the stated level; Increasing the critical multiplier and Armor penetration for all moves accomplished this. It maintains the current playstyle by uniformly raising the discipline's damage.
- Just raising the Critical Multiplier and Armor penetration didn't fully accomplish the dps lift. To get the last boost, the critical hit chance on Furious strike, Vicious Slash and Vicious Throw were slightly raised.
Juggernauts and Guardians
Juggernaut - Vengeance || Guardian - Vigilance
Current DPS: 6607
Goal DPS: 7026
Changes:
- Increase Damage from Ravager || Master Focus to 25% (From 5%)
- Increase Critical Chance from Gushing Veins || smoldering Saber to 8% (From 5%)
- Increase Damage boost from Shein Form to 9% (from 6%)
Changed DPS: 7034
Reason:
- Ravage is a signature move for Vengeance and also locks down a melee character's movement. As such, it should be highly damaging and a large portion of Vengeance's overall dps.
- The other changes were to bring the overall dps up to the desired level without doing too large a single boost.
Juggernaut - Rage || Guardian - Focus
Current DPS: 6444
Goal DPS: 6853
Changes:
- Increase Critical Damage Boost Dark Resonance || Focused Resonance to 25% (from 15%)
- Increase Armor Penetration from Shii-Cho Mastery || Shii-Cho Mastery to 20% (from 15%)
Changed DPS: 6839
Reason:
- Rage needed a large boost to get it to the the stated level; Increasing the critical multiplier and Armor penetration for all moves accomplished this. It maintains the current playstyle by uniformly raising the discipline's damage.
Assassins and Shadows
Assassin - Deception || Shadow - Infiltration
Current DPS: 6537
Goal DPS: 6929
Changes:
- Increase Critical Chance from Recklessness || Force Potency to 100% (from 60%)
- Increase Armor Penetration from Charge Mastery || Technique Mastery to 20% (from 10%)
- Increase Critical Chance from Crackling Blasts || Deep Impact to 20% (from 10%)
- Increase Critical Chance from Dominating Slashes || Prevailing Strikes to 15% (from 10%)
Changed DPS: 6933
Reason:
- Recklessness to 100% critical chance is a quality of life fix that affects all Inquisitors and Consulars. This plays into the 4.0 super crit and allows Assassins to behave the same as the other classes. For Deception it increases the on demand burst by a small amount.
- Increasing the Armor Penetration will raise damage equally across all non-discharge abilities and thus raising the sustain without affecting burst
- Increasing the Critical multiplier for your hardest hitting move ensures that Deception remains a burst spec.
- Increasing the critical chance for the main two melee attacks helps raise the damage to the approriate level.
Assassin - Hatred || Shadow - Serenity
Current DPS: 6555
Goal DPS: 7068
Changes:
- Increase Critical Hit chance of Recklessness || Force Potency to 100% (from 60%)
- Increase the Range of Death Field || Force in Balance to 15m (from 10m)
- Reduce the force cost Leeching Strike || Serenity Strike to 20 (from 25)
- Increase Periodic damage from Force Horrors || Drain Thoughts to 30% (from 10%)
- Increase Critical Damage Bonus from Claws of Decay || Adjudication to 20% (from 10%)
Changed DPS: 7089
Reason:
- Recklessness to 100% critical chance is a quality of life fix that affects all Inquisitors and Consulars. This plays into the 4.0 super crit and allows Assassins to behave the same as the other classes.
- The Death Field range is a quality of life improvement for large diameter bosses where it is possible to be more than 10m away from the center of the boss while still within 4m of the edge of the boss. This would allow it to be always double clicked to cast while in melee range.
- Reducing the force cost of Leeching strike brings it down to the same value as all of the other melee moves for Hatred. If force cost is tied to damage coefficients, then reduce cost via ability such as claws of decay.
- Claws of Decay and Force Horrors are the only real levers for large scale changes without magnifying a single ability more than others.
Sorcerer and Sage
Sorcerer - Lightning || Sage - Telekinetics
Current DPS: 6470
Goal DPS: 6790
Changes:
- Increase Critical Hit chance of Recklessness || Force Potency to 100% (from 60%)
- Fix the current interaction between Thundering Blast || Turbulence and SuperCrit.
- Increase the duration of the proc from Lightning Flash || Telekinetic Gust to 15s (from 12s)
- Increase proc and damage from Forked Lightning || Telekinetic Momentum to 30% (from 25%)
- Increase proc and damage from Forked Darkness || Mental Momentum to 30% (from 25%)
- Increase Critical Hit Damage Reverberating Force || Reverberations to 15% (from 10%)
Changed DPS: 6793
Reason:
- Recklessness to 100% critical chance is a quality of life fix that affects all Inquisitors and Consulars. This plays into the 4.0 super crit and allows Sorcerers to behave the same as the other classes.
- The Supercrit bug for Thundering Blast is a quality of life annoyance that can eat recklessness charges without providing any benefits to the caster. This fix is optional due to difficulty of implementation.
- Increasing the duration of the buff from Lighting Flash is a quality of life change that extends the buff to the full cooldown of the ability. This is a change that has been needed since the cooldown of Lightning flash was raised to 15s from 12s.
- Increasing the proc and damage ratio for Forked Lightning and Forked Darkness is the easiest way to increase damage without making any one move too powerful. This does involve changing coefficients, but since it is a straight percentage it should be easy to change.
- Increasing the critical hit damage for most of the moves will increase the overall damage by a slight amount
Sorcerer - Madness || Sage - Balance
Current DPS: 6736
Goal DPS: 6964
Changes:
- Increase Critical Hit chance of Recklessness || Force Potency to 100% (from 60%)
- Change Lighting Barrage || Psychic Projection to “ticks 50% faster but deals 50% less damage” (From “ticks 33% faster but deals 25% less damage”)
- Fix Rippling Force to count as a DOT just like Lightning Burns
- Increase Damage and reduce Force cost from Wrath || Psychic Projection
to 33% damage (from 25%) and consume 75% less force (from 50%)
Changed DPS: 6965
Reason:
- Recklessness to 100% critical chance is a quality of life fix that affects all Inquisitors and Consulars. This plays into the 4.0 super crit and allows Sorcerers to behave the same as the other classes.
- Madness has had an issue for a while now where the optimal rotations involve clipping Force Lightning a majority of the time. It has been stated multiple times that clipping moves is not an intended result for any discipline. There have been a few times that this has been attempted to be addressed with limited success. By shortening Force Lighting down to a single GCD there is no need or ability to clip this channel. It also allows Madness to have a normal rotation that utilizes the ability queue. This does break my usual reluctance to change rotations during class balances, but Madness is an exception due to the broken nature of the rotation
- Rippling Force is one of the few Mirror class abilities that don’t match. Fixing this would make Madness and Balance equivalent.
- Increasing Wrath Damage raises the total damage dealt and also reintroduces Lighting Strike as a useful part of the rotation. Reducing the force cost of Lighting Strike and Demolish makes the Madness rotation sustainable indefinitely like every other class.
Mercenary and Commando
Mercenary - Arsenal || Commando - Gunnery
Current DPS: 6682
Goal DPS: 6783
Changes:
- Supercharged Celerity || Supercharged Celerity costs 15 Energy. (from requiring and costing 10 stacks)
- Reduce Critical Damage boost from Target Tracking || Deadly Cannon to 15% (from 30%)
- Increase Damage from Power Launcher || Charge Launcher to 10% (from 5%)
- Increase Damage from Barrage || Curtain of Fire to 15% (from 10%)
Changed DPS: 6788
Reason:
- Quality of Life fix: DPS Mercenaries currently have a huge penalty for activating their raid-wide buff in compared to Sorcerers, Marauders, and Operatives. By changing the cost to energy instead of stacks it allows the buff to be activated at any point with minimal dps penalties (more rapid shots). The 15 energy was chosen because it is the same cost as Tracer Missile which can be replaced by a rapid shot.
- Arsenal was the last class to keep its 30% critical damage buff. Reducing it brings it more into line with the other burst disciplines.
- Power Launcher and Barrage will increase the damage of all non-rapid shots, non-priming shot abilities and thus increase damage without making any one ability be too powerful.
Mercenary - Innovative Ordinance || Commando - Assault Specialist
Current DPS: 6796
Goal DPS: 6929
Changes:
- Supercharged Celerity || Supercharged Celerity costs 15 Energy. (from requiring and costing 10 stacks)
- Reduce the ICD of Innovative Particle Accelerator || Blazing Celerity to 7s (from 7.5s)
- Increase Damage from Flaming Wound || Flaming Wound to 5% (from 3%)
- Relentless Ordnance || Relentless Assault raises tech Critical Chances by 5% (from 0% Tech Critical chance boost)
Changed DPS: 6924
Reason:
- Quality of Life fix: DPS Mercenaries currently have a huge penalty for activating their raid-wide buff in compared to Sorcerers, Marauders, and Operatives. By changing the cost to energy instead of stacks it allows the buff to be activated at any point with minimal dps penalties (more rapid shots). The 15 energy was chosen because it is the same cost as Power Shot which can be replaced by a rapid shot.
- Quality of Life fix: Reducing the ICD of Innovative Particle Accelerator will put a bandaid over the persistent alacrity bug that affects the timings for IO. While it does not solve the root cause, it will mask them and prevent them from occurring in the first place. By only reducing the ICD by 0.5s, it also preserves the 15s rotation by still limiting the activation to the desired GCD.
- IO does not have very many levers that would affect all of the moves. Flaming wound increases most of the dot moves and thus was an obvious choice.
- Adding the tech Critical hit chance to Relentless Ordnance increases the whole spec damage. This ability was chosen because it had it in 3.0.
Powertech and Vanguard
Powertech - Advanced Prototype || Vanguard - Tactics
Current DPS: 6439
Goal DPS: 6908
Changes:
- Increase Damage from Power Bracer || Riot Augs to 15% (from 5%)
Changed DPS: 6914
Reason:
- Personal Note: This is the DPS ranking that I most disagreed with. AP will still be the preferred spec by a huge margin (it was preferred even with a 200+ dps gap) due to better Defensives and that for the first few minutes of a fight all of the offensive cooldowns stay lined up (also will benefit dummy parses). In addition it is still the most mobile spec of any disciplines. It also has access to great utilities to increase in-raid dps and AOE damage only makes the discipline even stronger.
- Power Bracers is the obvious move to modify because it affects everything but Rapid Shots and Shoulder Missiles.
Powertech - Pyrotech || Vanguard - Plasmatech
Current DPS: 6645
Goal DPS: 7026
Changes:
- Flame Barrage || Plasma Barrage now triggers on Rail Shot and Immolate (from just Immolate)
- Superheated Flame Thrower || Pulse Generator now Stacks up to 3 times (from 2 times), increase damage by 20% (from 20%) and cause it to slow by 30% (from 45%) per stack.
- Increase Critical Chance of Elemental attacks from Prototype Cylinders || Plasma Barrage to 4% (from 3%)
Changed DPS: 7016
Reason:
- Flame Barrage, and Superheated Flame Thrower are reversions to early 3.0 before a few balancing attempts were made to try and reduce the damage (root cause was a bugged set bonus). This will raise dps mainly by streamlining the rotation by removing excess rapid shots for Flame Bursts. The remaining DPS increase will be via Flamethrower
- Raising the Critical chance of elemental attacks was the easiest way to get the last few percent increase
Sniper and Gunslinger
Sniper - Marksman || Gunslinger - Sharpshooter
Current DPS: 6238
Goal DPS: 6777
Changes:
- Increase Armor Penetration and Critical Chance from Between the Eyes || Slick Shooter to 20% (from 10%) and 6% (from 4%)
- Increase Critical Damage Boost from Imperial Assassin || Deadeye to 20% (from 10%)
- Increase Critical Chance from Headshot || Aim High to 20% (from 15%)
Changed DPS: 6780
Reason:
- By returning some of the Critical Damage Boosts and Armor Penetration, this spec returns closer to its bursty roots. It also raises damage by raising critical chances and emphasizing this burst.
Sniper - Engineering || Gunslinger - Saboteur
Current DPS: 6672
Goal DPS: 6915
Changes:
- Increase from Explosive Engineering || Independent Anarchy to 15% (from 10%)
Changed DPS: 6947
Reason:
- Explosive Engineering increases the damage of most of Engineering’s abilities so it was the obvious candidate for raising the overall damage level.
Sniper - Virulence || Gunslinger - Dirty Fighting
Current DPS: 6643
Goal DPS: 6950
Changes:
- Increase Chance to tick twice from Corrosive Microbes || Mortal Wound to 20%(from 10%)
- Increase Chance to tick twice from Caustic Substances || Gushing Wounds to 20% (from 10%)
Changed DPS: 6936
Reason:
- Virulence is a dot spec and increasing the number of ticks helps it maintain the overall damage level without increasing burst.
Operative and Scoundrel
Operative - Concealment || Scoundrel - Scrapper
Current DPS: 6525
Goal DPS: 6922
Changes:
- Increase Critical Damage Boost from Meticulously Kept Blades || Underdog to 20% (from 10%)
- Increase Damage from Culling || Scrappy to 10% (from 5%)
- Increase Damage from Waylay || Sawed Off to 10% (from 5%)
- Increase Damage from Surgical Strikes || Turn The Tables to 10% (from 5%)
Changed DPS: 6915
Reason:
- Increasing the Critical Damage Boost will give Concealment some of its old burst back while raising total damage.
- Increasing the the damage of a wide range of abilities by 5% raises the total damage of all abilities without singling out any individual abilities..
Operative - Lethality || Scoundrel - Ruffian
Current DPS: 6657
Goal DPS: 7040
Changes:
- Increase Chance to tick twice from Corrosive Microbes || Mortal Wound to 20%(from 10%)
- Increase Chance to tick twice from Acidic Compounds || Sharpened Materials to 20% (from 10%)
- Increase Damage from Acidic Compounds || Sharpened Materials to 10% (from 5%)
- Increase Damage from Cut Down || Rolling Punches to 10% (from 5%)
Changed DPS: 7039
Reason:
- Lethality is a dot spec and increasing the number of ticks helps it maintain the overall damage level without increasing burst.
- Cut Down affects a lot of moves and is an obvious lever for increasing overall damage.
Edit Log:
6/18: Changed Engineering || Saboteur from 20% to 15% due to a bug found in my code.
Maybe a little overboard, but fine work. The only thing I would add is PvE knockback/stun immunity on Ravage||Master Strike (not the stupid new name) for Vengeance||Vigilance.
I also don't know if I could stand by the choice of placement for AP||Tactics any more, either.
- Only working with existing Discipline Abilities.
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I think some people are overplaying the ranking system here as the important part of the idea. The actually important bit is the overall spread. The Disciplines being balanced to a +/- 2% point means that, given equally skilled players in equally optimized gear should be trading off the top DPS spot on a regular basis due to variance in damage rolls and crit successes. I looked over Bant's changes, and they're quite well thought out, and it really is too bad that BioWare probably won't read through this thread.
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I agree with you mate, i prefer the pre. 3.0 update gameplay .
I would have:
- DoT spreading removed.
- a return our Raze every 7.5 seconds and up single target damage.
- remove self-healing from DoTs for an increased one from Leeching Strike and Death Field.
Snave in his recent interview with Musco, had asked for separate Utilities System for PVP and PVE in order that class balance don't affect both gameplays. Musco answered that idea isn't planning by SWTOR dev.
9 second reset on Raze makes the rotation flow perfectly. The rotation is super clean pre-execute. What you would want is a damage boost on dots applied via the original abilities and not through Lacerate, or remove the spread entirely. Also, consider a a shield a little like a sorc bubble that gains strength as you self heal at a 1:2 ratio of absorption to self heals, capped at 10% max HP. It'll never happen, but it's neat.
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Bah, didn't realize Aelanis replied and that this thread is old. Carry on.
I'm still internet famous!
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Oh. I though people didn't really use them...
Super try-hards who want to always be shimmed up do. It's not possible to see the difference through your crit variance, so I wouldn't bother with those stims.
Bant's thread is otherwise what I would suggest.
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Hey everyone I'm searching for tips/tricks to squeeze out numbers for both dps specs (hatred/deception). I mainly use hatred in HM raids as the numbers are more consistent and i feel more comfortable with it. I've logged parses with both specs Hatred being the first one via link. Gear is currently sitting at 220 with one or two pieces 224.
http://parsely.io/parser/search/Icedi
any help would be greatly appreciate.
Check my guide in my signature for a stronger opener. Aside from that, just work on timing those dots correctly, seems like they fell off a couple times based on my guess for your Alacrity and the average and minimum times between uses. Again: this is from mobile, so I'm not digging too deep.
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Now i join this thread with my problem.
http://parsely.io/parser/view/186022
And except lag time (Like 0.1-0.2 sec) and lack of 224 implant (i still use 220), i can't see problem in my log... Please, maybe someone more attentively (i.e. smarter) then me will find problems.
P.S. I used this parse to compare http://parsely.io/parser/view/164280/0
P.S.S. Yes, i know that sometimes i use Assassinate with 3 stack for Discharge, and yes, most time of it i got last stack from melee hit. Yes i know that much.
Work on that Blackout rotation. Your minimum time between Blackouts should be 12 seconds. More Blackouts means fewer saber strikes. Hard to say what else from a mobile device, but other posters have ahd it right: don't compare to top parses, their average crit percentages are way off as they're super lucky. Find good parses with at least 3 or 4 other fights in the log and average out the DPS, then average the same number of your own fights.
It's odd to be back, finally, and on mobile to boot.
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I read the guide, but it seems out of date.
I've just started getting out of 208 gear into 216 and am getting ready to start enjoying encounters with my new guild.
I downloaded Parsec and am (with garbage 194 relics, mostly 208 with a couple pieces of 216) doing about 2800 DPS max on a dummy.
I just would like some guidance on my rotation. I'm a longtime WoW warlock, and I have to say that I greatly miss power auras as this UI is lacking, especially regarding debuff tracking (highlighting under 15 seconds on an 18 second DoT is putrid, it should at least go down to 5 seconds, but I digress.)
I always try to start in stealth and I always try to stay behind, as I have to imagine Shadow Strike is meant to be utilized as a filler and Force dump and I'm not supposed to just weave Double Strike, Serenity Strike, and Saber Strike
So.....
Standing Single Target:
Adrenal > Potency > Force in Balance > Force Breach > Sever Force >
Then I think my priorities are based on procs:
Spinning Strike>Serenity Strike>Shadow Strike>Saber Strike > Double Strike if you can't get behind or Force amount prevents DoT reapplications.
Unless: Vanquish Procced, then Telekinetic Throw > Force in Balance > Project
Try to maintain maximum uptime of Vulnerability debuff and maximize dot uptime at all times as a general rule of thumb.
Standing AoE:
Tab out Breach (and Sever Force if they have enough health,) Force in Balance, use Whirling Blow when DoTs don't need refreshed, spit out Vanquish procs on highest health target.
Utility:
In realistic situations, there's time where I'm cut off from melee range, so in those cases, Throw and Project can take priority simply because there's nothing else to use aside from DoT refreshes. Likewise, there are times of high damage where holding Serenity Strike and tying it to Resilience or deflection can likewise be invaluable.
And always be ready to Cloak if the stuff gets too thick and you're gonna die if you don't (aggro dump.)
Please provide any insight into what's wrong with my rotation. I just want to make sure I'm not screwing up too badly when standing simply because this is far different than WoW in regards to your ability to turn your potential into real numbers during encounters.
There's a guide in my signature. Take a read, then come back with questions.
Quick notes: don't use Telekinetic Throw or Project unless you're going to be off target for more than 3 seconds. Don't use Shadow Strike, ever: you're playing Hatred, not Deception. Whirling Blow spreads your dots, spam it in AoE situations.
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In an arena you essentially have two lives with phasewalk/cloak. Spreading out DCD's based on who's on you combined with that makes hatred/serenity one of the more survivable advanced classes in an arena. Just have to have phasewalk in a good spot and not taunt when you're below 40% or if they're all on you and it's fine.
I am astounded by how people think that literally cowering in a corner is part of participating in a fight. And by spreading out cooldowns, you mean praying you're up against a Carnage Marauder or Marksmanship Sniper so that Deflection isn't nearly useless? Or spreading out the 3 (5 talented) seconds of Shroud? Because the only thing left after that is your taunt, which is another 6 seconds of unimpressive damage reduction. And before you say "Phasewalk and Force Cloak are DCDs," no, they're not, they're disengagement tools. Neither actually reduces the damage you take, and you can't survive in combat any longer using either of them. You can use them to run away and hide, but they're not DCDs.
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How many classes can take 190k damage and still be alive in an arena with no heals? Same goes for regs.
None of them can. Self heals are heals.
Nitpicking aside, you'd have to spread that 190k damage over more than 2 minutes to have much of a chance of surviving that as a hatred Assassin, and your health would end awfully low. Your opponent would have to be asleep for you to survive that long without heals.
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*snip*
It's late, your numbers you presented are garbage, and everyone has already pointed out everything I would have said. I'd just like to add that:
I've been playing Assassin since the game came out. I've cleared all Nightmare content on my Assassin at level, with the exception of the last two bosses of DP and all of EC because I wasn't serious about raiding by that point, and I cleared 8/10 HM on my Assassin in 3.0, stopping on my Assassin only because it made no sense to not bring a bounty hunter on the final fights in each instance. I know my way around Assassin, and I know how to recognize when we're at our weakest in quite some time. I know how to recognize when burst classes can out-sustain Hatred. I know when the class I've poured full months worth of time into learning and improving at is not holding up well. You want to cherry pick some numbers off of ****** bosses in the most lackadaisical and worthless raid difficulty in any game I've ever seen, and try to say I don't know Assassin DPS? Do your homework first, next time.
As for what would fix Assassin DPS in PvE? A damned sustained DPS buff for Hatred and a small bump in burst for Deception. People have been asking since 3.0 to make Hatred even a shadow of what 2.8 Madness Assassin was (and by god was it glorious when we got to shine for 5 months), but it won't happen. BioWare doesn't care about group content in this game, or else they wouldn't delay a PvP fix for a whole month, and they would have at least announced that they're working on new group content.
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You aren't a healing class so you dont need a "healing buff". That would be absurd. If anything needs a heal it's snipers. Unlike you they dont have a phase walk teleport, sprint, and vanish. Not to mention other defensive cooldowns. Also if specced as a DPS operative, the healing is not that great at all. They have a HoT which does not tick high, a scan that is hilariously weak, and a casted heal that requires the use of combat advantage which is a waste because it heals for nothing.
You should take a look at the class before talking about it's heals.
Shadow/Sin is a great class right now and strong. They don't need a healing buff to their DoT spec. That would be absurd.
Since you've got your head thoroughly buried in PvP world, let me shine a little PvE perspective on the situation.
Snipers have, hands down, with no exceptions, the best passive and active defenses in the game, as far as any and all PvE content goes. Marauders are a decent second, but Snipers still crush them. 2x: Large extra hp bubble, immunity roll, a couple of seconds of extreme DR, nasty accuracy debuff, and a one-off group-wide 20% DR with a huge radius. They ALSO potentially HAVE self-healing, if they sit still. Now, while that doesn't work so well in PvP, that's their modus operandi in PvE. Not to mention their nifty, always up DR damage absorption shield they can generate 3 of every 6 seconds.
In PvE? Assassin is LITERALLY the worst DPS in the game. Every single other advanced class can outburst Deception or out sustain Hatred. Or both. Assassin, as a DPS, is in a TERRIBLE place.
Also, Force Speed isn't a defensive cooldown. Just saying. And if you call literally running from a fight a defensive cooldown, I think you need to take a look at your definition of a DCD.
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Nothing against Hatred, but it has a more static rotation so you more or less press the same button at the same time where it's a bit more random with Deception. At least, that's the impression I got.
Still hard to criticize a rotation for being "spammy" compared to another when the one you aren't calling "spammy" uses 5 moves for 70% of the fight.
And sure, Hatred is a more-or-less static rotation, if you look at it from a 90 second rotation point of view. From that point of view, it perfectly repeats itself (except for the Bloodletting triggers). Of course, most people can't look at it like that, and so it changes up a bunch every rotation, with Death Field, Leeching Strike, and Demolish shifting regularly.
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If you want the same old boring, spamming rotation, play hatred. Deception is a lot more fun to play.
8 moves in Hatred vs 6 in Deception. Just saying.
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What are you talking about?
Nothing useful, really, so I was arguing just to argue last night, and picking on phrasing that I saw that made no sense in the English language. Layovers are REALLY boring.
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I play also a Sorcerer and Sin Tank is not a threat for me.
Force Shroud is usefull to counter a Force cast, but when Sorc has seen your immune, he don't attack and kite, if he don't he heals himself and forces you to break his cast, and then he tunnels you to death. This immune just report your death to some seconds later.
Well, I've never reported my own death, but I fail to see how that's any different from either other tank, barring Enraged Defense. Which, believe it or not does actually have a cooldown (mind = blown).
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Basically you have to do twice the work for the sane results as a Jugg or PT tank. Assassin tank in PvP is trash, I know I will piss off the masochists who think it is a high risk high reward tank. But its not, its a sqishy tank and thats retarded.
So sqishy. So bad it has an "immunity to sorcs" ability for 5 of every ~45-50 seconds.
Hi m8s
in Shadow / Assassin
Posted
Not sure if you saw the range nerf on Death Field, but that's it. They also still haven't announced new group content, over a year since they announced this current expansion. They're on track to go 2 years with no new group content, it seems.