True as that may be, a good portion of people (I'd wager the majority, but that's a personal opinion) play MMO's and keep subscribing to them, chasing that elusive piece of gear or mount or <insert reward here> that may or may not get in the end. That is the definition of fun for THEM, enjoying the journey, while having something to show for/look forwar to in end. That is also a good strategy on behalf of companies to maintain a healthy number of subs. The problem with SWtor in many cases, is EXACTLY what has been stated. Lack of incentive to do things. The game is already giving away too much, for little to no effort and that "extra mile" many players were looking forward to (not speaking personally here) isn't really worth the time investment.

Ah look, it's this thread again ! 3/10 for the effort. Try beating a powertech or a good marauder in an open area where you cannot hide or LOS anything. Unless you get a lucky double dot opener, best of luck. You bring friends on your own. During all that time, the sage/sorc was trying to save himself, he wasn't healing anyone else, he wasn't dpsing and he wasn't capping. Problem ?

It surely isn't peanuts but also not something that you can reliably use to DPS and considering its purpose and damage type, rightfully so.

According to the trend on the forums, the class that isn't OP is the one that you can kill on a consistent basis.

Minor correction: Crushing Darkness/Mind Crush is classified as energy/kinetic damage and is fully mitigated by armor. As stated before this leaves 2, 31 point talents and a Balance/Madness aoe talent that you really only use to apply a debuff. Affliction/Weaken Mind is the only class ability that does internal damage and is not affected by specs.

Not all fights start at range, the initial opening of a warzone yes, I'd agree, beyond that, anyone can jump on a ranged class and most fights are rarely 1vs1. The melee avoidance "toolkit" of a sorc comes down to : a Tier 4 Lightning talent, a Tier 3 Lightning talent, a Tier 4 Madness talent. Plus the stun and the snare that other classes can mirror to various degrees. There is only one spec or spec type that can have all of those talents. If you argue that this specific spec is powerfull and needs to be adjusted, we are in agreement. No it isn't. If non healing speced sorc is using Dark Heal, it means he is using it 95% of the time on himself and he won't be getting more than 1.5k, maybe 2k at best out of it, while depleting force rapidly. It often means he is about to die, static barrier cannot be cast due to debuff and he is trying to hide, at which point he contributes nothing to his team and if discovered he is dead. The large heal won't be talented, so it stays at 3.0 seconds. Again I repeat, that if people are so stupid as to leave a person cast a 3 second heal on himself, they do not deserve to complain. Not sure about your server, on mine the total number of sorcs/sages that PvP on a consistent basis is more or less the same. The only tweaks that are needed is a small reshuffling of 2 maybe 3 talents. Depends on the TM. About an hour ago, I had one on me that would consistently crit for 3k and guess what ? I was his most important target. He killed me a couple of times, I killed him a couple of times. Problem ? Not really. Last but not least, I would like to see the gear that offer a very high surge rating on sorcs, while at the same time keeping a reasonable level of expertise (if we are talking about mixing PvE pieces in). The real problem with lighting/TK throw is that energy/kinetic damage is mitigated by armor. Other than the wrath proc, people would mostly use it because of the snare, rather than the damage. This is only annoying for Madness and/or Madness/Lightning hybrids and no contrary to popular belief not all sorcs are hybrids and to be perfectly honest, most that are, have no idea how to play properly (you'd be surprised really).

Again you are describing a situation where a ranged attack class is trying to gain...range and LOS in order to nuke and do damage. Yes, they can open with dots, no in fact they SHOULD open with dots if they are worth their salt, their only real problem is melee range and they can only knockback you once. How do you believe they should work ? Again, consider that not all sorcs are hybrids. Purely healing speced sorcs do not have a snare on knockback or exploding shields. Yes, they will still heal and give you a hard time, but they will be healing THEMSELVES and NOT the team. Balance/Lightning sorcs can't heal for anything outside medpacks and if you do allow them to LOS and cast a 3 second Deliverance, ah well, good game. I agree 100% and I already agreed that something needs to be done about Huttball when it comes to both sorcs/sages and Juggs/Guardians. Other than that, there are 2 more warzones, besides huttball. Last time I checked, tracer missiles would hit me for ~3k damage @ ~556 expertise. That's a dead sorc in 5-6 hits, unless he LOSes or it happens that the target is already on low health. With shield he can probably take 1-2 more hits. If he tries to heal it, he still dies since Deliverance will be interrupted and the hot plus trance/innervate cannot be spammed due to a cooldown. At the end of the day, it can go either way, depending on the situation, gear and skill on both individuals. I still don't see a problem, other than the fact that hybrid specs have advantages and those advantages are easily fixable, if Bioware deems them OP.

I'm aware of that fact. The question is why on earth arent you using your own snares or stun him when he is about to run away. Moreover, you do realize that the sorcs only tactic to kill any melee, when actively targeted/engaged by him, is to kite, right ? So you are asking for what exactly ? They stay there and take your damage ? Seriously ? Not to mention the fact that all that time you had the sorc effectively pressured and out of the fight. Now, if you allowed him to peel you off an objective so that his team can cap, whose fault is it ?

Whirlwind alone is enough to fill the resolve bar to almost 90%.

Move the force wave snare higher up in any of the trees, move snare on bubble break talent to the balance tree, at least tier 4-5. People would have to choose between type of utility.

You forgot to mention the part where your resolve bar gets filled up, at which point he can't run away, if he has used force speed. Nice try though.

Btw, you are wrong. If someone vanishes during project, the boulder just stays in the air doing 0 damage. It has happened millions of times to notice really. Only if they try to LOS do they still get hit (it goes through walls, which is somewhat hilarious). They aren't. If you allow them an opener of dots and lightning/TK throw, then you deserve to die. Get them anywhere in the open and pretty much anyone can easily stand toe to toe against them, most notably Powertechs, Marauders, Juggs, hell even some skilled scrappers. The only class they can kill relatively easy is snipers. Do they stack up good ? Sure thing. The same can be said for other classes though. Ever seen a group of Bounty hunters supporting each other ? I will admit that their stacking is incredible for Huttball, but again that is not a problem with the class, but with the mechanics allowed in that warzone. You are talking about stacking again though. If one sorc does that to you (and he will do it, so he can proc an instant ability), there are plenty of ways to deal with him. In all honesty, the only "problem" with sages/sorcs are certain hybrid builds such as healer/TK-Lightning or TK-Lightning/Balance that has a bit more utility than probably intended, cc wise. Easy to fix by slightly moving talents around, so as to make those specs not viable. Pure healer/Lightning/Balance sorcs should never be an issue for a good player/team.

Talented Force Armor/Static Barrier : 1.2*(3.27*ForceBonus + 0.164*StandardHP(Level)) StandardHP at 50 is 2500. This means that the shield, depending on gear will absorb anywhere from 2500-3000 at level 50, considering TOP gear maybe 3.4-3.5k. Anyone claiming to absorb more than that, either post your proof (gear values) or just stop embarrassing yourselves.

I do not disagree with this. Of course he will have an advantage. The thing is, you need some sort of system to separate the PvE and PvP endgame in terms of benefits/gear. They could either do this by using a stat (similar to WoW) or introduce a system with separate skills as has been suggested. They opted to go for expertise, with all its benefits (?) and shortcomings. Taking into consideration that tons of people already have full exp sets, I very much doubt that they are going to abolish the stat altogether. The forums would crash

The reasoning is, raiders (even worse raider premades) would be able to go into warzones with full Rakata/Columi and 18-19k+ hp and be able to steamroll people, at which point, the PvPers would fill buckets with tears, stating that they need to grind PvE encounters to get gear for PvP. As it stands, sure fresh 50's will have a hard time, but they still have the chance to eventually get their own gear and even out the odds. No, its not the best or most fair system in the universe, but the alternatives are not that attractive.