Slickerpunk
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Posts posted by Slickerpunk
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I've heard this argument before, but why make a comparison when these aren't mirrored classes?
I only bring up the issue because the two AC's function more or less the same - vanish/sap/bursty. The two abilities also function the exact same way (down to the range of them).
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maybe because assassins have no burst dps capability
That is not correct at all. Some serious, learned, non-troll responses would be appreciated.
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Playing both ACs I have come to the realization that the Operative/Scoundrel sap
(the ability to CC someone only from stealth if they are not in combat) awards the victim a FULL resolve bar whereas the Shadow/Assassin equivalent awards maybe 60-75% of a resolve bar.
These two respective abilities by each AC essentially do the exact same thing and are applied in the exact same manner.
My question is this: Why does the Operative Sap award full resolve and the Assassin version does not?
Working as intended or bug? This is a HUGE advantage to the Assassin in many situations (especially 1v1).
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It wouldn't be so bad if Acid Blades didn't give you a 50% armor pen.
I agree to an extent, but I wouldn't be able to even hurt heavy armor classes otherwise. They are pretty beefy as it is!
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enough with these bs videos
it's nothing but people flexing their epeens. my scoundrel doesnt do anywhere near this damage beucase i dont have full batltemaster gear
full batltemaster gear should mean you do this well. it also doesnt chagne the fact that out in the open vs. another full battlemaster gear player you are cat food, especially vs. a powertech/vanguard in EQUAL gear
so enough with this crap. you want to flex your epeen? use your guild forums.
This is not just flexing my epeen, this is making sure the communtiy knows how silly stacking BUFFS is. PLus a little epeen
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I do like how no one has mentioned that my comparison duel with the equally geared powertech left me killing him 2-3 seconds slower than me killing him. Where are the cries for powertech nerfs? He bursted me down better, I just have a incap with my opener which can easily be trinketed if you save for it (just like most cooldowns, if you dont have it up, you're gona lose 1v1).
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Someone stole his ice cream.
I have zero issues with scoundrels/Ops. My main is a BH and the alt is a juggernaut. Have some other low levels including an operative. But there are no big issue with any classes.
The sniper may need more range, but that's about it. I feel sorry for snipers when I can easily run to them and destroy them.
I honestly feel the same way most of the time. I agree with everyone here where the major issue is the stacking of damage buffs/stims to an unfair advantage.
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this isn't a good example oftheir potential. A lot of us have seen operatives and scoundrels hit 50's in all champ gear for a lot more than what this guys is doing.
The only piece of set centurion gear I have is the chest, the rest IS champ gear. Those rofl videos are people stacking expertise consumables x 2 (warzones and stim), marauder buff (15% dmg) +, PvE gear, and are biochems stacking their stim and on use stim with relics versus people with little or no expertise...that is how you get the 8+k hidden strike crits. I don't cheese THAT much, just the expertise buffs/relics.
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Interesting video, thanks for sharing. I must add, the part on the bridge in Void Star is quite hilarious.
haha thanks
lambs to the slaughter! -
I have over 400 expertise and without stims/buffs, my max crit on Shoot First is 4.5k on people without expertise. Also, without buffs, Backblast crits for 2.5k. The problem here isn't really Operative/Scoundrel burst, it's that with stacked buffs they're getting crazy damage bonuses.
I've also been utterly destroyed by Marauders/Assassins that were stacking buffs like the Ops/Scoundrels in the videos being posted. The other night, I jumped a marauder in huttball, took about 1/4th of his life off with Shoot First, he broke the CC and turned around and killed me within 5 seconds. I don't think marauders need to be nerfed because he did that. I think buff stacking needs to be looked at.
I agree 100%. 30% by stacking just the expertise buffs, not to mention biochem cheese and relics.
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15% more expertise (15% MORE damage and LESS damage taken) does not seem like a lot, but it will often mean victory or not. Not to mention you can stack the one you pickup in the warzones with the consumable which makes it 30% more/less.
I believe this consumable should have a negative as well. Right now it is too powerful and makes pvp center around having these buffs or not when you want to engage.
Suggestions:
Make the consumable and the warzones NOT stackable
Tweak the actual buff itself - (20% More Damage Done, 10% more Damage Taken - Or Something along those Lines).
Right now on my 50 Operative I have 10% base expertise with gear, I pop a consumable, stealth and pickup the warzones one and then get 6-8k Hidden Strike crits (depending on target expertise). That is a 40% increase in damage done and less damage taken. WAY too much of an advantage with no disadvantage to go with it.
I realize changing the buff to have something NOT expertise would make it completely useless for tanks and healers, but something has gota give.
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Looks like he is wearing pve gear? So he is going to have more cunning than with pvp gear typically, he has a 15% marauder buff, 2x 15% expertise buffs and from the looks of it, he is stimmed up the ***. If you use all of the above versus someone else that does not have expertise, it is totally possible and tbh, not worth crying over.
How to fix it?
A: Make some sort of negative aspect for the 15% expertise buffs (like WoWs berserking buff - 30% more daamge, 15% more damage taken) so it is not too much of a bonus and have no negative. Also, make it so the one you pick up and consumable are not stackable.
B: Change stims so they cannot be used in warzones OR make other professions have some sort of bonus that can be used in pvp as well (passive or not - ie: cybertech grenades).
C: Tweak Expertise so it is more like resiliance in WoW - it reduces crit chance and overall damage taken by players, but it doesnt INCREASE your damage.
I think c is the biggest problem right now. Players without expertise are being completely obliterated because they not only do less damage to players WITH resiliance, they are taking MORE too. The idea that expertise will cancel itself out amongst equally geared players is a good idea, but it makes getting expertise whhile other players have it painful and a little absurd, tbh.
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Because it generally screws up the person you are attacking if they arent very good (it requires extra effort to stay facing me). This is especially good versus casters.
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I noticed the bar go's white the moment you land your first knockdown on the target. Would using the ability to remove the knockdown, mess up Operative rotations?
I believe the 2nd Ability that you use requres the target to be stunned, and the 3rd requires to be behind the target. Am i correct in this assumption?
Talented, our Hidden Strike (the one I open with that can only be used out of stealth) has a 100% chance to knock the target down for 3 seconds. This ability also gives the target an immediate resolve bar of 100% (CC immune).
To answer your question, it would not mess up our rotation necessarily, but it would give you the ability to pop defensive cooldowns or CC me back to recoup yourself to get into the fight, which can be a big deal if you are good.
Our backstab (9 second cooldown? can't remember) requires us to be behind the target (which is why I always use it 2nd, out of stealth). We have no abilities that require the target to be stunned/incapped in pvp.
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eventually people will get tired of whining and actually l2p
hopefully
I hope so. Against good teams that have level 50s, my effectiveness goes out the window. I open up on someone and they immediately use some sort of defensive cool down and trinket out of my knockdown, then their entire team proceeds to gang **** me. I am actually considering rolling a marauder for team fight-friendly opportunities.
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You may be interested in the damage mitigation discussion here and here. I'm not too familiar with assassins so I can't tell what spec he is but there's an issue with shield and defense not mitigating kinetic damage and I think it's a huge contributor to the high burst that operatives/scoundrels put up on a lot of classes. This issue, as well as the Biochem issue, needs to be straightened out before any of the classes are tweaked (barring obvious ability bugs, of course).
As far as burst goes, though, your PT friend took you down in 8 seconds where it took you 10 to get him. Maybe it was a fluke, maybe not; you only had one round in the video. Still, nerf Pyro.
Thanks I will definately take a look at that!
Yea the armor of the PT is a pain in the ***. The cirt difference between that *** (who was dps spec btw) and the PT was massive and obviously mitigated (the PT i mean).
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Thats nothing I've had juggernauts jump stun me then start taking down my hp with each hit around 3k dmg, I don't know what skill they are using but it looks like a slow overhead attack kinda, which looks kinda basic.
That's the first I've heard of juggernaught burst but hey I'll belive it when I see it!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoM0CV9BRPs&feature=youtu.be
The above is a short video I made showcasing the BURST potential for a level 50 Operative with 10% expertise.
Though I do not have a precise timer, an Assassin and Powertech can kill me in roughly the same amount of time (give or a take 2-3 seconds) that I can kill them, save the fact that they are incapped while I am doing all my damage (knockdown).
With all the ways to mitigate damage in this game (Guard, AoE Knockbacks, CC), it very well may be that things are working as intended.
Enjoy! Don't flame me too harshly!
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Sole rule of balance in mmorpgs...
1v1 classes tend to perform better in groups than lesser 1v1 classes. If a class outperforms other classes in 1v1 situation they make better group fighters due to the fact that they can be independent when needed.
Thus unbalanced. They will get nerfed without a doubt as they are ruining the game experience for players.
UNLESS the game is overbalanced meaning you can never win in a 2v1 situation which does not apply in SWTOR.
Operatives will make horrid open team fighter. Take, for example, the marauder...he has what? 3 defensive cooldowns? the 20% reduced dmg one, 50% defense, and their own form of vanish, not to mention they have a pretty long-fight friendly mechanic (rage). Ops have a 3 second 100% evasion on a long cooldown and a vanish with a terrible and unforgiving resource mechanic.
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Seems like a lot of people never played other major mmorpgs if they dont assume a lot of the survival is depandant on cooldowns. In other mmorpgs you would be roflstomped if your cc breaker would be on cooldown, yes also from "rogues" but from other classes aswell.
Do you think if a stealth class has no cooldowns up, in this case his vanish, and he is caught without his openere he doesnt die aswell ? Some of you need to learn some basics which you will expirience in other mmorpgs too.
Thank you. ALL pvp is largely CD based. If you trinket their amubsh, he must use HIS 3 minute cooldown to vanish to try and get the advantage again. Its all about the cooldowns.
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EV is jokingly easy in 8 or even 16.
Did i say it was hard? Just sharing community content!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9f6Ah9beGU
16-man Normal - Soa Kill - Midnight Reveries - Master Zhar Lestin - Empire
Taken from Lethality Operative Perspective
I was just a humble guest DPS, congrats to MR!
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I suppose 6500 damage with one ability (crit + dot) is a tad much.
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There is a LOT of outcry on the forums about the burst of concealment operatives and I am not arguing that ambush/acid blade needs retuning. Being a 50 Concealment Operative with 10% expertise myself, I thought I would give out some tips on how to live when you find yourself being attacked by one.
Please take into account that if you are not level 50 with at least equal or near equal expertise (total hp too), this will probably not go in your favor. If you're out-geared, you're dead anyway as it is with most classes.
A Concealment Operative's entire PvP burst potential centers around him getting the opening Hidden Strike (Ambush in WoW Terms) out of stealth. This typically can crit anywhere from 3.5-4.5k, depending on armor and expertise, as well as apply a 1500~ 6-second DoT while granting the Operative a buff to ignore 50% armor buff.
Your biggest problem, however , is the 3 second knockdown that this ability has on your character. While you lay down there nice and immobile, the operative unloads all of his melee abilities on you (with 50% ignore armor buff). Most of the time, this will leave characters with equal gear at around 20-40% hp, depending on crits.
So you see, if the Operative does not have those 3 seconds of free-casting (essentially) on you while you're knocked down, he is at a complete disadvantage.
TIPS to Fighting a Concealment Operative:
#1: Once you find yourself ambushed and face-planted from him, immediately pop your trinket (for lack of better word) and pop a defensive cooldown. The operative will be blowing all of his cooldowns (all his melee attacks, save Lacerate, have cooldowns) trying to kill u as fast as possible. You now have the immediate advantage, you have a full resolve bar and he just blew all his cooldowns whikle you had your defensive walls up.
#2: If he vanishes, spam an AoE abilty to knock him back out of stealth.
#3: If you are playing with friends, once the operative reveals himself, train him. Without Vanish up, he is extremely squishy and will die quickly.
#4: A Good Operative is a assassin that excels at 1 on 1 takedowns, if you play a solo ranged class that is typically far from help, expect to be targeted often. Snipers especially, you are our number one target.
#5: Keep him snared/dotted.
#6: BH/Troopers - Spec into the improved Sensor Scan. This DESTROYS operatives/assassins. Use it on cooldown if u smell one near by, don't use it reactively, use it preventively (if you are in the rafters or in the back doing what ranged people do, keep it up on top of you).
Hope this helps.
lambs to the slaughter!
Assassin/Shadow Sap Versus Operative/Scoundrel Sap
in PvP
Posted
Doesn't really compare because the assassin recharge rate is static (meaning if its 1 or 99, it still recharges at the same base rate).