xKurisaki
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Probably from their own itemization post.
Conquest, flashpoint, and PVP gear paths cap out at item rating 326, so yes, effectively, for the majority of players gear mods are going away. If there are no gear mods then there is no need for adaptive gear other than for cosmetics. Also, this is why they finally put weapons in outfit designer; because the majority of us will be using non-moddable weapons with static stats. The issue that many people have is that the agency we have heretofore enjoyed with regard to our gear is being removed.
We will now be restricted to the stat allocations that BW have determined we should have based upon the quality of gear we have from the content that we complete. Conquest will only give green quality gear, flashpoints will only give blue, and operations will give purple (possibly going into gold at higher item ratings up to the Ops cap of 334). And, of course, the higher the quality the better the stat allocation.
But then, will it really matter since level sync has been completely reworked and will now apply to tertiary stats (crit, alacrity, etc.) and so for all <80 content our stat will be determined for us and our allocations will not matter.
I was under the impression that their post was in reference to strictly cosmetics not gearing. I assumed this because 6.0 gearing revolved around set bonuses which neither Cartel Market Items or Alliance Crates provided and therefore purely are cosmetic.
I can understand why people are visibly upset, however I also think that it’s a nice change especially if it could potentially intrigue players into doing harder content— giving them more reason to play.
Also, CMIIW (@Devs) I hear that legacy ops will be scaled to level 80 which wouldn’t result in a predetermined stat allocation. I do agree however that going from moddable gear to predetermined stats is a bit much considering it takes away the freedom to freely allocate stats to fit our playstyles.
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And what will happen to the armor sets inside the "Alliance Locked Crates" we get when we finish Heroics missions and unlock on Odessen?
I had to get and open HUNDRED of crates to get "Dreadguard" sets for the 8 character classes. I feel the 7.0 update is making all of these efforts and grinding worthless...
As said above, if you’re worried about cosmetics, nothing (as far as we know) is affected by the changes in 7.0.
7.0 introduces a different gearing path— what this means is that you have to “grind” out a whole new different set of gear for the 7.0 expansion; typical for any MMOs. I’m not sure where you got the idea that they’ll be essentially removing moddable/adaptive gear however, it does not affect cosmetics in any way nor will BioWare delete items owned by players especially when Cartel Market items are involved, at least without notice.
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Fix the "new" inventory. Until that happens, I've lost interest in anything else including any hinted at future Arcann/Rivix content
. Yep, the inventory in the PTS is that bad. It overshadows everything else coming to the game, good or bad.I may go on about the inventory until there's real dev feedback OR an update to the PTS that adds a "none" option (sorry any forumites who are bored of it, but my virtual pitchfork and torch are still going).
It’s a confirmed bug.
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Wow, you must be so good, and so proud of yourself for being so incredibly good. Why would anybody not as good as you ever play this game.
Maybe some people who play this game aren't as skilled as the people that you play with. Maybe they play with other people who aren't all that good, but they enjoy spending time with those people. So, if doing more self heals, or dropping out of combat to stealth rez someone to prevent a wipe makes the game more fun for them, then that is a good thing.
People usually play games because they are fun, and when it stops being fun, they stop playing that game. Personally I find that easy to understand, and as a result, I understand why people are upset about these changes.
Maybe in your groups certain things that you point out as being absolutely not required, are indeed required by less skilled players who just want to play the game and enjoy it. What is wrong with that?
I find this argument to be hilarious in that it’s almost as if you’re rewarding complacency. As elitist as it sounds, it’s still the hardest content to do (and as much of a joke it is right now aside from NiM Gods and Dxun), people who spend the necessary time to understand the fight and their class should be rewarded for it and not the other way where BioWare essentially spoonfeeds players just because “It’s difficult”.
I understand that people play the game for fun and for their own leisure, but at the same time, if you’re doing the hardest content available, it is expected that it will demand more from you, whether it be learning how to optimize your dps or just being more mechanically aware. This expectation applies to any MMO with end game raiding.
And to clarify, you don’t necessarily have to be the best to do the content. You just have to put in the effort. Let’s not reward laziness. Thanks.
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Why do juggs need focused defense? Why do mercs need responsive safeguards? Why does any class need any dcd or any self-heal ability? Answer those questions and you have your answer to why stealthers want to reset their medpacks.
Without the ability to reset medpacks stealthers have lost a self-heal ability. It's the same as losing a defensive ability. I use medpacks pretty much on cooldown in some content, and the ability to do that will be lost in 7.0.
Less self-heals and dcds means that healers will have to actively heal themselves more in 7.0 then they are currently. At the same time dps will be taking more damage since they have lost survivablity too.
My point is that that failing to exit combat when you combat stealth matters to more than tanks.
Following this logic, you also impose (albeit unintentionally) the question: “why do healers and x class have Rez”.
You could argue that Healer rez’s x person as soon as they die and a stealther could break that mechanic by stealthing out to stealth rez in most fights. You’re also comparing defining abilities to an ability to reset/offset certain things.
In addition to this, I vehemently believe that if a group is highly reliant on this mechanic is a problem the group has themselves. There is not many fight where you’ll need to use a medpack at all or need a second, perhaps in Zorn and Toth in NIM Explosive Conflict. In all the years that these content has been available, many groups have been able to do the content without a stealther needing to stealth out to reset a medpack. Is it a nice luxury? Absolutely but is it a requirement or rather is it necessary to successfully clear the content? Absolutely not.
My point is with your argument of stealthers “needing” to stealth out for an extra medpack as an extra dcd or heal, that problem is not your fault (in a group environment that raids are), but rather a problem with the people in that group. For example, are the healers healing effectively and efficiently? Are the heals going to the right people?
Are people taking too much damage, and from what? Following this question would impose the question, how can we avoid this much damage? This is what progression raiding is.
All of these questions attribute your usage and the availability of your dcds. You could get away with some fights not needing to use medpacks at all if everyone is in unison even.
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They are not. They are exactly the same thing regarding abilities. Either vanish needs to go from pvp too, or it needs to be left as it is for everyone.
And once again, you have neither added more claims to support this argument other than persistently pushing “it needs to be removed from all game modes or left as it is”.
How is PvP the same as PvE? How are NPCs the same as Humans?
They are not the only one unhappy.I usually only post once or twice to give feedback, it's not worth 'screaming' about on the forums. That doesn't mean it isn't an issue I care about. It just means I know bioware won't change or backtrack on any of their decisions. I'll post my feedback, then simply stop doing endgame activities and group content if I'm still not happy.
About the vanish issue: I don't tank much, but dps sins, and healer/dps operatives will be affected. No medpacks on cooldown is a nerf to survivability for all stealth classes.
Stealth have no 'get hit and heal to full' abilities, and no 'spam your self-heal every 25s' abilities. Medpack use multiple times in a fight helped to off-set that, and now that will be lost along with other defensive abilities.
It also means no combat stealth to save the long run back when a raid wipes, which isn't really important, but will still be annoying.
So my counterargument here is, why do you need the ability to reset medpacks?
Every class is comparable even without the medpack reset. I would argue that PT is the weakest in terms of defensive capabilities, and this class does perfectly fine without needing to use medpack more than once.
Ultimately, we will never know how this change will affect stealthers to do content until release. But I will say this, skill factor will contribute to how well stealthers can do them, and that’s just an obvious fact. Will it be more difficult? Possibly. Will you need to come up with different strategies? Most likely. But that is just the nature of MMOs.
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Constantly? Are you somehow fixated on my posts, because I am not even posting constantly, and the only reason I'm posting now is because you keep attacking me with false accusations like this. Stick to the facts and stop putting words into my mouth just to attack me. Any value your opinion might have had is gone when you need to use personal attacks like this.
And you still don't get what I'm talking about: you are talking about vanishing ops, I am talking about vanishing in flashpoints. All you do is keep yelling that pvp players should keep their ability but it needs to be gone from pve, yet you haven't provided any reason why pve players who play flashpoints and pvp players should be treated differently.
You also don't seem to get that while there will never be balance between classes, which is something I didn't even ask for, it's just another thing you claim that I said to attack me, doesn't mean you have to make it even more unbalanced by removing abilities from part of the playerbase while others get to keep it.
And yeah, I cut the rest of your repetitive rant again because you are not replying to something I said, you are just twisting my words to keep arguing and I'm not interested in that.
How is this not factual evidence? You’ve been PERSISTENT on treating PvP and PvE “equally” when it’s two different entities in it’s entirety.
PvP: Players vs Players, players have the luxury to think for themselves and adjust to the situation they are in.
PvE: Players vs Environment, you are fighting NPCs that only follow a sequence of codes and scripts. They are unable to adjust to “unique” situations such as when you use Vanish to cheese a mechanic.
Vanish needs to be destroyed from pvp too or leave it as it is for pve players.It is exactly the same thing. Vanish needs to be removed from all game modes or not remove it at all. There is no reason to give pvp players special treatment.No. It's exactly the same thing. In pvp you also avoid a mechanic (= getting killed) by vanishing before your HP reaches zero or for other reasons.There is no reason why pvp should be treated differently regarding vanish. Either remove it from pvp too or leave it as it is for pve.I don't see the difference why pvp players get to keep their vanish but pve players won't? What's with the special treatment for pvp players?Are you saying that Flashpoints and Operations are not under the same “PvE Umbrella”? Sorry but I wholeheartedly disagree. Operations are just big Flashpoints that require 8 players rather than 4.
If you’re just complaining about how it affects Flashpoints, then why did you bring PvP into it at all? You’ve done absolutely nothing to provide context as to why it should stay as it is in Flashpoints and Operations. You’ve once again proven that you’re just upset because it affects the one piece of content you care to do rather than thinking about the game in its entirety.
Why I’ve been getting you to address why you think PvPers have any special treatment in this change is because you first drew to the conclusion that PvP and PvE content are the same when they are in fact different pieces of content. And everything I quoted from you in the above spoilers tab supports my argument as they were things you yourself have commented in this thread. You have never in those five posts addressed why this change was bad for Flashpoints specifically, but rather attacked the idea with the notion of PvPers of having special treatment and demanded that PvP and PvE contents to be equal.
I won’t dive too deep into the context in Operations since you said that you’re only referring to flashpoints but this is what you said when you commented on the Vanish change:
I don't see the difference why pvp players get to keep their vanish but pve players won't? What's with the special treatment for pvp players? Maybe instead of doing this you should reconsider the mob density in some flashpoints. Especially in the last few flashpoints you have added SHIELDS on trash mobs, not to mention million knockbacks, roots and snares, to make them as melee unfriendly as possible. People stealth skip them for a reason. It's not their fault, it's yours.
You’ve addressed trash packs, roots, snares, knockbacks and those being the reason why people opt to Stealth them.
The post you replied to did not say that “Hey, you can’t stealth skip anymore. **** your stealth”. It said:
Vanish abilities will instantly drop all threat and allow players to enter stealth at max level, however, players will no longer exit combat.Tell me where it says “You can’t use Stealth to skip past trash packs”. It only said what it said above, and I’m not quite sure where you got the idea that they’re removing stealth completely in PvE content. You drew to this conclusion here as well:
I play a lot of solo flashpoints and if the mob density is too high or too annoying, I'll go with a stealther.If you forget to stealth before running into mob packs, that is simply on you. Not the game.
If there’s mobs with Stealth Detection (i.e. The new Mandalorian flashpoint), how is it any different than not being able to exit combat via stealth if there’s a possibility that you’ll be caught by another mob that can detect you in stealth?
Additionally, “to make them as melee unfriendly as possible” does not mean impossible. You are able to do these as melee, solo-able even with little sweat. You just choose to be complacent and take the easy route. Many players have been able to solo Master Mode Flashpoints as a melee class.
Also, if I wanted to attack your views I would rather do it directly rather than taking the time to write paragraphs of counter arguments which you view as rants. What I choose to write are simply logical thinking from my perspective and if you view it as an attack to your opinions, that’s your problem. I have neither intended nor have started to “attack” your opinions. Up until this post anyways.
But as far as I can tell, you’re only selectively reading what I have posted so far anyways.
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If my goal were to complete as many weeklies as possible every week, yes. But my goal is to enjoy all aspects of the game. Outside of some event weeklies, weeklies don't have enough reward to be an objective on their own. If I take 6 weeks to finish a heroic Star Forge weekly, so what? Heroic Star Forges aren't fun enough to do 6 in one week, but I still like to do them on occasion. Ditto just about anything else in the game that has a weekly.
Yes, I will still be able to play casually and do what I can how I like, however I will no long get the same rewards that I used to.
For me, playing alts isn't about combat style, but about that character's personality and story. By and large I couldn't care less about combat styles. I don't want to play Bob as a merc in repetitive content, then continue to play Bob as a sniper in more repetitive combat. I want to play Bob ,who is a merc, in some content I haven't done with him yet, then switch to Jane, who is a sniper, and do some other content I haven't done with her yet. I'll sprinkle in repetitive content with which ever other character I want to play who has finished everything else up, regardless of their combat style.
You were quoting someone else with this, so I'm not sure which scenario they had in mind. Many conquest items are once per legacy per day. I'm not a strategic conquest player. I putter around on a character until I hit conquest, then change to someone else and putter around on them. If I finish what I planned to do with a character and they are a little shy of their personal conquest, I'll do a planetary heroic. When I do that, I take the weekly for that planet, but there is no reason to finish it since only one counts. Another week I might do another heroic or two from the same planet for the same reason, and eventually I finish the weekly and get that extra little bit.
So like I had said to above this post, would it be more “fair” to not count the weekly reset outside of the current rotation? I don’t know if I can explain this as well as I thought of it in my mind, but for example:
Week 1: Complete x Heroic Missions by Week 2
All other weekly missions wouldn’t be reset by week 2, allowing you more time to do these missions. Obviously Week 1 is a time constraint but to incentivize that, the rewards would be more worthwhile?
The only flaw I see with this is that you can have a jump start on other weekly missions, so my proposition to that would be to make a “new” mission detailing the same objectives as other weekly missions; making it a separate entity outside of normal weekly missions. (Similarly to how Conquest has missions that require you to complete certain weekly missions in that week). Sorry if this seemed like a clutter chain of thoughts.
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I do a weekly for a daily area on one toon until I hit 50k Conquest points on that character (Black Hole and Czerka are short enough I just do the entire weekly), park that char in a stronghold, go to the next toon, do a different weekly until that toon's capped, and down the line, switching to heroics once I've done all the weeklies for daily areas I care to. I'm not logged in and I'm not going to log in just to look up specific amounts, but some of the weeklies give 100k conquest points. Or more. Making them a waste of points for me. Sure, they help get the guild closer to target, but they don't help me get encryptions for opening rooms in the guild ship.
Okay. I can understand this more now.
So, big hypothetical IF (and this is a suggestion), what if in their “weekly” rotation, the hard reset only applies to the Weekly Mission in that specific rotation, say, do 10 heroics during this week before you’re hard reset. They could provide an incentive to boost the rewards for each rotation rather than resetting all weekly missions? Not sure if I conveyed that correctly lmao.
The one weekly I mentioned was the weekly unranked mission - it's the only weekly I have trouble completing since they changed unranked. If the new way of gearing is solo/casual player friendlier than it is now, it might not be an issue as we won't need the PvP weeklies. All the other weeklies I usually do (Veteran FPs, GSF, Star Fortress) are easily done inside a week. The unranked one can take casual players over a week to complete because unranked is generally a poorly matched team (several low geared team members with only a couple geared to 306 against a well-geared pre-made team of ranked PvP experts). You've a very low chance of winning (you can play 10+ games in a row without a win) is at best tedious and at worst a game ruin-er, especially as I used to do ranked all the time before the changes when it was fun. In addition, I think everyone has worked out that unranked is only worth bothering with when warzones are the daily renown bonus which is usually once a week (otherwise you get 4v4 matches repeatedly in which it is 99% four randos against versus a good premade team). I don't want to spend my game doing dozens and dozens of one thing (especially when it feels like a chore rather than a fun game) when my time for playing is limited. I now split the unranked weekly between two or three weeks when the renown bonus is warzones. It's the only way I can tolerate it.When unranked losses counted toward the weekly it was much better and people used to make the effort to win even though they didn't need to. It was never clear why BW felt they had to force "must wins" for unranked quests - our questions about it went unanswered. Now it's hopeless. If they do the same with GSF (currently losing a GSF match counts towards the daily/weekly quests) they can expect a huge backlash.
I wouldn’t mind if they brought back the losses counting towards weekly. The only reason why I was for that change in the first place was I noticed people wouldn’t try or stop trying at all, obviously this is influenced by the majority that just want to farm numbers and kills, I’m guilty of that. If the “must win” requirement must stay, would it be more reasonable for the dev team to lower how many wins you need?
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Rhetorical questions are asked in order to create a dramatic effect rather than wanting to discuss. I guess some people need to do that because they don't have anything meaningful to say. I also find it funny that you got upset about my previous reply and reported it, because it just proves you can't discuss, you can only attack.
And double standards: You posted to both of my earlier posts separately, but now you are complaining when I also responded to your posts separately. I haven't found anywhere from the rules that I should put several replies to one message, but if there is such a rule, it applies to you too.
The rest of the silly rant I skipped. Sorry, but when someone starts using capitals to get their point across it's obvious they don't have a point to begin with, they are just trying to create an argument.
There is no reason to keep vanish in pvp if it gets destroyed from pve. It's been in game since launch, people have used it for 10 years and it's essential part of the class. I get that you don't get it, but I'm not the only one saying it's wrong. All game modes should be treated equally.
Answer me this then, are you not being dramatic right now? Constantly crying about how “this won’t be the same game again” or “PvPer’s are getting special treatment again with this Vanish change”.
LOL. Bold of you to assume that I even bothered to report it. It clearly states in the forum TOS to avoid spam. I wouldn’t need to report it in a general discussion initiated by the devs (and forum moderators) to moderate the thread that they want to receive feedback from. I simply just warned you of the consequences before you start accusing others of reporting your responses for spam and potentially have it removed. I guess it was moot either way since not only have you proven me to be correct, but you also make yourself seem to be more unwilling to listen to discussion especially if you view my opinions on the vanish change as an attack to your opinion.
To the double standards, I replied to those threads at different time intervals which were 10 minutes apart from each post. Whereas your posts in this page http://https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=998128&page=15, your first post,#146 at 11:51AM (from my screen) neither contributed to the discussion nor helped your case as to why it’s a bad nerf. Instead, you simply said “Read my first post” instead of providing more context to make it easier to understand your side of the argument. You then proceeded to follow up at #147, at 11:53AM to imply that I am selectively reading. In a post that both of these replies were under. Not to mention that you, once again, viewed it as an attack to your opinions and retaliated rather than asking “why is it a dumb argument”. Your third post, #147 at 11:56AM, you still argued the same reason why Vanish needs to be removed from all game modes, and your only supporting argument with that is “PvPers have special treatment” despite a few people giving VALID reasons as to why it’s not the same case as PvE.
Literally the use of capitalization, especially in quotes, have nothing to do with me getting the point across because I don’t have one. I’m in multiple raiding discords where I have first hand witnessed people saying those exact same things I have said in capital letters. The only reason why my replies seem argumentative is because you have neither given me any validity to your claims, especially with your argument with PvPers having special treatment over this change. Meanwhile, I and another person have given you ample reason as to why it’s not the same comparison. Despite that, you still continued with the same boring “special treatment” argument. If anything, you’re being hypocritical and are selectively reading to make your argument more valid by ignoring our counter arguments.
There you are again being overly dramatic that this ONE change will destroy PvE content indefinitely, on top of not providing any more evidence to support your claim. Anyone remember when Off-Tank classes got a nerf to Guard? I distinctly remember people freaking out about it like people are right now with Vanish. Or how about when the Renown gearing change and the removal of Galactic Command? People were FURIOUS. What happened? Their arguments were inconsequential because people adapted to it and figured out different ways to handle things. What people, at least on this forum don’t seem to understand is that MMOs will constantly change and it’s up to the player base to adapt to it. If you can’t, then sorry maybe MMOs aren’t for you.
If you’ve played WoW, they are always constantly changing the meta and their gearing structure for every expansion. Just because something hasn’t been changed for years doesn’t necessarily mean it won’t.
EDIT: Anyone remember when Veterans Edge was introduced to NiM Content? People complaining about it being removed because it made NiM VERY VERY EASY.
Sorry but to say that all game modes need to be treated equally would be ignorant and almost impossible. If you think it’s possible to balance the two different entities (PvE and PvP) and please 100% of the player base, I suggest you submit a resume to BioWare.
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Next time you respond to my posts, maybe you should read the whole post first. I already replied to that in both of my posts. If you didn't get it from either of those posts, repeating it won't make any difference.
It was a rhetorical question.
Also, instead of spamming this thread with multiple posts with one to three sentences to the posts you’re trying to reply to I suggest you dump them into one post before it gets marked as spam then deleted and you have another thing to complain about.
Probably because selective reading.How is it selective reading? Fact of the matter is no one knows how big of an effect this change has and yet so many people are acting like they won’t be able to play the game anymore because “WAAAAAA I CAN’T DO THIS MECHANIC WITHOUT STEALTHING IT ANYMORE WAAAAAAAH” or “WAAAAAAAAAAAH THEY GAVE US TWO REZZES AND NOW I CANT STEALTH REZ CHAIN ANYMORE WAAAAAAAAAH”.
If you don’t realize just how strong Vanish is in PvE is, I don’t know what to say to you. The fact that chain rezzing is only feasible by stealth rez breaks the intended use of Healers using rez for one person only and only being able to use it after every 5 minutes. Not to get 3 people who died from a mechanic that could have been AVOIDED ENTIRELY.
Not to mention the fact that you’re able to cheese mechanics that you’re supposed to deal with. But hey, complacency and lack of critical thinking is a thing I guess.
If your whole group is centred around stealth cheeses or stealth rezzes, you have bigger issues and complacency is one of them. Why do I say complacency? Because it seems to me that the people complaining about the Vanish nerf are somehow incapable of thinking of other ways to deal with literally one mechanic. Either that or they were fed information that that says “Oh you absolutely need a Sin Tank handling this” and not once have tried to figuring out other ways to deal with that one mechanic without a sin tank constantly. Don’t get me wrong, some classes are better at handling it than others and therefore easier but certainly not impossible.
It is exactly the same thing. Vanish needs to be removed from all game modes or not remove it at all. There is no reason to give pvp players special treatment.And once again, there are no mechanics in PvP and Open World Zones to break! PvP, all you have to do is not die; kill or be killed. That’s not a mechanic, that’s the “goal” if you will.
You can’t chain rez your teammates like you can in Operations. You can’t cheese intended mechanics like you can in Operations.
In Arenas or Warzones, you’re fighting against other players; people who can and will try to chase you down so you cannot heal. You’re never truly out of combat in PvP, the unpredictable nature of players vs the predictable nature of a preprogrammed boss. Not sure why this is such a foreign concept.
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The biggest problem with battle rez is probably vet flashpoints, since they almost never have a healer. But tbh the problem there is more that group finder does not enforce the healer role on vet flashpoints. Just have vet flashpoints require at least one healer. A tank is not needed for them, but a healer should be a gf necessity. That way you also get a combat rez.
The reason dps specs are losing combat rez is because there won't be a group wide lockout anymore. If dps would keep battle rez an operations group of 8 people could have up to 6(!) vombat rezzes within 5 minutes. That's too many. I welcome the change though. With 2 battle rezzes it becomes more lenient, but you can no longer have 4 person chain stealth rezzes.
I think the issue with Group Finder goes beyond than composition, it’s the population size unfortunately.
I wouldn’t mind DPS with rez capabilities (Operatives, Mercs, Sorcs) keeping their rez abilities if I guess they kept the in combat system as is (instead of 1 rez per 5 minutes, its 2 per 5 minutes for each one being used) that could be a better alternative.
I think in Operations, at least for an organized group, people expect the healers to do the rez’s so this won’t necessarily be that much of a big deal.
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We all play for different reasons and for different amounts of time. (What does end game have to do with any of it?) That is great that you enjoy doing nothing but one weekly until it's done, but quite a few of us don't. There are many, many reasons to not finish a weekly in one week, if you take the time to read through the whole thread you find a lot of players explaining why this hurts their playstyle.
For me, some weeks I only play for a few hours total, others I might play for 20+. I like to putter around doing a variety of things on a variety of characters. During any given week, I might play 20 different characters. Do some story missions, a couple of heroics, work on filling in gaps in my armor collection, make new outfits, decorate a bit, and once in a blue moon do some pvp or a flashpoint. Weeklies get finished in dribs and drabs. For 6+ years, this was fine. Now suddenly every player who likes to do multiple activities on multiple characters, or only play a few hours a week will loose out on the weekly rewards. They might not be much, but they aren't nothing. So why take this little bit of extra incentive away from us after all this time?
It doesn't matter that most weeklies only take 1-10 hours to complete. What matters is that for years and years we were able to complete these weeklies at our leisure, and now we can't. This is a punishment for not playing in the new Bioware preferred way, and when people feel like they are being singled out and punished for no good reason, they tend to get mad and quit.
Okay fair point. I only brought up endgame because that’s typically my goal in MMOs.
Let me ask this then, and I by no means am being toxic as it’s a curiosity.
Are you not doing yourself a disservice by taking a much longer time to complete the weeklies in that one week?
If, and this is a hypothetical application to you since I don’t know you, but if your goal is to maximize weekly rewards per week, wouldn’t it make more sense to finish them in that time frame?
But if your goal is to just play casually and do what you can however you like, I still think that you’re able to achieve both. Obviously it’ll be much more difficult to do that on multiple characters now but for RP purposes lets say, you want to play as a Merc and then want to play Sniper, you’re able to change classes from Combat Styles.
For me, oftentimes, it's a waste of Conquest points I could be getting on other toons. I'm sure my doing part of a weekly one week and the rest the next week on a toon isn't hurting you any. The amounts some weeklies give just leave me looking at them and thinking 'these points could have capped x more toons besides this one for more encryptions for my guild' as it is. No need to make it any worse by stacking more points on a toon in a given week.I don’t follow. Aren’t the weeklies in conquest Legacy locked; once you complete them on one character, you can’t complete it on another?
Or are you referring to the base amount of conquest given from the missions themselves and not the conquest missions?
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All right so I have several issues with this that could be game breaking, especially for shadows:
2. I really hope you guys have checked this interaction with deception/infiltration recklessness resets/ or plan on compensating the damage loss some how
3. What happens when it is the healer that dies (especially in flashpoints) or fights are to damage intense for healers to stop healing for the channel to rez (unless you plan on making it an instant cast) this forces healers into a position where they must be mechanically perfect (or close to) and/or force guards to healers and not as a threat mitigation for dps
4. This dangerously put shadows to a point of exclusion from progression raid groups as they will have absolutely no utility for the raid group . Every other class will have a major group utility ability (raid buff, off heals, rebounder/shield, heavy armor durability to off tank)
5. The ability to pull of the target switches that you are referring to a re a skill check for the only light armor tank in the game and is a major part of survivability in fights, is there planned changes elsewhere to keep shadow tanks viable
Just gonna address these points
2. How will the Vanish change affect DPS? (Sorry I totally misread what was posted). My question still stands.
3. I’m just gonna say get good to the healers. Why? If a Healer dies, it’s more than likely it’s their fault. Either they weren’t paying attention to insta kill mechanics or didn’t pop a dcd to help mitigate a big hitting mechanic and didn’t top themselves off fast enough. Taking 1.5s? to revive someone is not a long time and that 1.5s should not determine a wipe or force healers to be in a situation where they have to be positioned “properly” to pull a rez.
4. I honestly beg to differ. If you’re planning out a raid composition based on utilities and not how adept someone is at their class or the raids in SWTOR in general, you are making a mistake. The content has always been doable outside of meta. More time consuming and “harder” sure but it’s not really different from any other MMOs.
5. I’m fairly certain that even with the dcd pruning, Sin Tanks will stay viable.
I’m not sure as to what extent light/heavy armours affect survivability. But even then, that shouldn’t determine your ability to clear content.
Endgame content is meant to be challenging. People need to be hitting the dps/heal checks (moreso relevant now since I hear they’re scaling legacy nims to 80). People can’t afford to make big mistakes mechanically.
The only thing I’m more concerned about outside of this, that no one has even given a thought based on what I’ve read is how well can BioWare scale older content to current level. Especially when there haven’t been a proper testing ground in the PTS from what I can tell.
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i bet you have never seen a mm operation past the first boss.
Such a classic comeback. Do you really need to use Vanish to successfully clear the content LOL. Finding an alternative solution too hard for you? Such a competent NiM Raider /s.
Once again, if you need to heavily rely on stealth to cheese mechanics you have bigger issues.
Unintended for 10 years? That's just a wee bit unbelievable. Why does combat stealth still take you out of combat in PvP and open-world solo play if it was 'unintended'?If it was JUST that one change, maybe, but they're coupling it with removing or limiting dcds, mobility, threat drops, crowd control, altering gearing (again), and now taking away dps combat revive.
Are you going to claim that dps having combat revive was unintended as well?
Off-tank specs are being left with taunt and guard, so why the major nerf to off-heal specs?
It will not be the same game with all the changes being made. Bioware is changing too much for it all to go LIVE without major hiccups. I don't know what Bioware's actual end result plans are and it feels like with 7.0 Swtor will change from a complete game with occasional new content, to a BETA stage game.
The devs have been aware of this for YEARS. Why they haven't addressed it early on is beyond me.
https://www.swtor.com/community/archive/index.php/t-122546.html From the old forums where DPS with Rez capabilities had 15min CD.
Just imagine this though, a game designer designs a boss fight mechanic only to be able to cheese it via Vanish.
Also, aren't they making it so that both healers are able to use Revive? You now have two revives available making Stealth Rez irrelevant. If it's for a stylish preference, that's a fair argument I guess.
In PvP you're never truly out of combat as you're fighting other players. There's a CHANCE you'll be hunted and never have the opportunity to fully heal. If you do manage to heal (and this is in a 1vX siituation) you also give them the opportunity to heal. Also in PvP there's no mechanics aside from the expectation of not dying.
Your comparing apples to oranges when you say
Off-tank specs are being left with taunt and guard, so why the major nerf to off-heal specs?For one, Assassin can also Stealth Rez and it cannot spec into heals. Only Operatives are capable of that.
Two, Taunts and Guard do not break intended game mechanics.
Three, Off Tank Specs did get nerfed by nerfing the damage they dealt while they were guarding another person. This was in the 6.x era. People complained about it like how they are right now about stealth rez (primarily for pvp reasons) how did it turn out? It turned out FINE. People were still able to offguard like normal.
I guess I can understand that the amount of changes happening is too sudden given that the game itself rarely ever releases big changes like these so people just grow complacent and stick to what they currently know or have. Unlike WoW where the meta is constantly evolving.
altering gearing (again)Literally most MMO does this. WoW is notorious for it. SWTOR have done this (5.0 to 6.0 to 7.0; Command -> Renown -> Legendaries). The only reason why people are complaining about it is because once again, SWTOR doesn't push out enough content consistently enough for players (especially newer players) to adapt accordingly.
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not just that, DPS still use battle rez in operations, not often, but it's useful to have.
Bioware keeps doing the 'announce a nice cosmetic change' and then hit you with major gameplay changes.
Weapons in outfitter? Fantastic, now what else is planned ... WT actual F?
No more weeklies rolling over. Forget taking your own time to finish things.
No more combat rez on dps. Which is useful and saves plenty of teams from a wipe. This will hurt pugs a lot since groups will be less tolerant of newer/less skilled players even in veteran fp since mistakes will hurt a lot more.
No more stealth rez, which was a pretty niche ability, but still fun to pull off once in a while.
No more stealth removing you from combat, so no more medpack reset which is a nerf to all stealth specs survivability.
I don't get the reasoning behind the latest gameplay changes at all. Almost 10 years of combat stealth taking you out of combat, and dps having combat rezzes, and it's just now a problem? I don't buy it.
The cosmetic changes coming with 7.0 look fun. The gameplay changes do not. It just won't be the same game.
Regarding Vanish, does no one really understand stealthing out to drop out of combat was unintended?
I still fail to see how it’s a survivability nerf when no one has yet seen the applications of these nerfs in actual content. Everyone is making it seem like it’s the end of the game because “Oh no! We have no stealth to cheese ONE mechanic” or “Oh no! Three people are dead and we can’t stealth rez anymore”.
The game as it is allows you to carry people performing very poorly in legacy NiM. More so because of Nightmare Crystals. If people play SWTOR for solo content, I’m sorry but it’s better to play an RPG game than an MMO.
If people are complaining about this vanish change because they rely on it heavily, and let me use the Stealth Rez example, if you need to pull off a stealth rez after a healer rez, wouldn’t that mean people didn’t fully understand the mechanics and that they needed to not mess up the next time? It’s a group progression for a reason.
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Dear Eric,
I know my feedback doesn't matter. You guys made the decision already. So, all I will say is:
Resetting my weeklies means the end of the line for me!
Almost all changes you have made public so far for 7.0 seem to be made against my personal way of playing this game. I apparently play it wrong.
Work and life often gets in the way of my gaming. I am very often stuck at weeklies with 8/10 or similar. If you reset those missions, you punish me massively for not being an unemployed kid being able to play 6 hours per day.
However, from where does your money come from? The unemployed kid or the adult with a job?
There is no reason whatsoever why you should force a weekly reset on players. How am I hurting this game by needing 10 days for a weekly?
I do the weeklies now, because I know I can continue if I'm not able to finish them by Tuesday. If you take that guarantee away, I guarantee you that in return I won't even start any weekly whatsoever.
Ever since Mr. Kanneg took over I feel like almost every single update was designed against me. Just send me a PM and tell me you want me to leave, Keith.
I have an honest question for you and people that take several days to complete weeklies, is that all you (and everyone who follows this logic) do in this game? I personally don’t find the rewards very appealing so I stopped doing all of them.
Look, I get it. People have lives so I can understand the frustration, I have my own as well. But if all you do is the weeklies, what’s the point if you’re not even pursuing endgame content.
The weekly missions themselves don’t even require 6+ hours to complete (aside from PvP and maybe Iokath weeklies). 5 VM, 3 MM and a weekly per Operation, what else am I missing? Seasonal weekly events?
All of these can be completed in under 12 hours that’s simply just about two hours a day. You have a life but I honestly don’t buy into people not having time to do these missions in a timely manner. Sorry. I know a lot of people waste their time standing around in fleet or their guild flagship doing absolutely nothing then realize “oh **** I didn’t do my weekly I won’t have time to complete it when reset comes around”
The weekly missions themselves aren’t too difficult but rather a small time investment as is any game.
Also, Keith has been in charge for awhile now.
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No. It's exactly the same thing. In pvp you also avoid a mechanic (= getting killed) by vanishing before your HP reaches zero or for other reasons. Vanishing gets you out of combat, you get to heal up and your medpack will be reset if you used any. That is what makes stealther classes unique. If they are going to be destroyed from being viable in pve, they should get the same treatment in pvp. I'm all against butchering and destroying the current classes, but since they are going to be destroyed anyhow, they should be equally destroyed in all game modes.
Just for the record: I rarely tank on a sin/shadow, not even MM because it's not my favorite class. I was willing to change that as guardian/jugg tanks won't be viable after 7.0, but guess that won't be happening now. The only thing left is VG/PT. I find it utterly ridicilous that I'm playing a star wars game and won't be able to play on force user classes anymore.
Sorry but this is quite possibly the worst reasoning I have ever read. You’re reasoning is almost the same exact reasoning as “hey lets bring a Sin DPS for the extra stealth utility” and not for how well they play their class.
The meta is shifting yes. Does that mean that all other classes won’t become viable? No. You simply adapt to the change.
For the record, “don’t die” is a mechanic in any game. If you need to rely on stealth to “not die”, have you ever considered that maybe you’re the problem?
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I've played enough pvp in my life that I know being able to vanish from combat is an advantage most classes don't have. That's why people bring stealthers into pvp. They can reset medpack, they can escape a fight they can't win and heal up behind a corner. They can attack non stealthers from stealth and vanish again so that they can hit them back then do it again before the other guy heals up, and so on. There is no reason why pvp should be treated differently regarding vanish. Either remove it from pvp too or leave it as it is for pve.
Why are you so hellbent on nerfing the only characteristic stealthers have in PvP? You say you’ve done enough PvP but clearly not enough. Let’s go back to the stealth-heal argument: In a 1vX environment and you whittled down one person then you need to heal out of combat, that gives the other people to heal out of combat as well OR run around the map to find you in your vulnerable state. One person could run around to 1v1 you but that’s a matter of skill whether or not the stealther wins.
They can attack non stealthers from stealth and vanish again so that they can hit them back then do it again before the other guy heals up, and so onThen what was the point of stealthing out if your intent was to hit them again BEFORE they heal? Or are you implying that they hit them, stealth out to heal (and at which point, the other guy also has the option to heal in a 1v1 scenario).
You’re never really “out of combat” in PvP, there are instances where you can get away to heal but there are also instances where you’re hunted down. That’s the difference between NPCs and Players. Players will use their brains while NPCs stick to a preprogrammed code.
Vanish was NEVER intended to skip a mechanic in PvE. It’s basically a long overdue bug that just happened to be considered “acceptable” and the norm to certain phases, Tyth Knockback and Brontes Channel in P2 as a couple example. And yes, it’s the devs that are at fault only fixing it now.
Especially in the last few flashpoints you have added SHIELDS on trash mobs, not to mention million knockbacks, roots and snares to make them melee unfriendly as possible.Sorry but there are people who have soloed the new flashpoints on Mastermode as a PT. The last few flashpoints might be melee unfriendly but isn’t it a test of skill to be able to work around it?
And yes, I’m saying: Get Good.
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My two cents:
Combat Change - Vanish
Feels like another case of PVP behavior ruining other game aspects. For a dps with a revive capability to have that taken away takes away some of their utility in end game operations or MM fps. If the healer(s) go down and they can't be revived that pretty much ruins the battle. Being able to get off a stealth rez during a fight should also be something that is allowed since it requires some thought and skill.
I can't tell if this is a legitimate feedback or a troll post to blame PvPers for this change but care to explain why this is another case of PVP behavior? Please re-read:
For all Flashpoints and Operations, Vanish abilities will instantly drop all threat and allow players to enter stealth at max level, however, players will no longer exit combat. This restriction does not apply to the open world PvE/PvP or Warzones.This change does not affect PVP whatsoever so please explain to me why a change that has no effect on PVP is somehow "another case of PVP behavior ruining other game aspects."
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I literally cannot kill a Merc anymore. What buff did they get? It takes (and I watch this in BGs) 3-5 people to kill a Merc and on my Sorc, no way I can 1v1 a Merc anymore. Two of them on you, insta-kill.
PS: I want this info so I can do the same for my Commando, if that is applicable.
Someone compiled a list of your QQ threads in one of your posts so I just thought it would be nice to go down memory lane again.
1. https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=985917
"melee classes and Sorcs utterly destroying everyone in their path"
"Melee does way too much damage, too many gap closers, too much healing, too much CC"
2. https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=983677
"It's high time you took away roll immunity and cut healing by 75% (so they are on par with other classes) and make Operatives have to work as hard as other classes for kills"
3. https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=981417
"Can't get Sentinels off me"
"Vanguards take 1/2 your health in the first second"
4. https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=977392
"ONE SINGLE OPERATIVE can stop 8 players from capping a base"
5. https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=976849
"Any team with 1 or more Scoundrel/Operative can keep an entire opposing team busy while the other bases are capped"
6. https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=975698
"It makes Warcraft's ROGUE's look like clowns"
"PLEASE NERF THEM HARD"
"Make SWTOR (PVP) Great Again!"
7. https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=975809
"fixing the OVERPOWER problems with Shadows and Scoundrels"
8. https://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=9802440&postcount=5
"Considering how way OP Juggernauts are right now, I am not sure why every single player in the game isn't playing one."
I will repeat what I said in your other Operatives are GODLY QQ thread: GET GOOD.
No disrespect when I say this, but the reason why PvP, ranked specifically at least on NA is a **** show is because of people like you who cannot accept criticism and constantly complain that someone is better than you. Rather than even remotely accepting you are not as good as you make yourself seem to be, you instead complain on the forums as evident by the links above.
I literally cannot kill a merc anymoreThe word "anymore" implies that you're unable to kill a merc as of this moment. However, there have not been any major balancing patches. All of that is reserved for 7.0. Once again: Get Good.
It takes (and I watch this in BGs) 3-5 people to kill a MercThis awfully sounds familiar oh wait it's the same exact reasoning you used in this thread
https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=986692
We even had a match where ONE SINGLE OPERATIVE was able to stop 5 of us from capping our base and we could not kill him.ShadowSlinger
Scoundrel
Sentinel
Spellcaster
And yes, Commando, so I understand them.
I get what everyone is saying, but you only get 1 trinket out of everything. The answer I think you're getting at is to get out of LOS, but not always easy and some of my classes have no way to heal (Sent/Slinger/Shadow) for example.
This goes to everyone giving advice and I like to think that a majority of players understand that the class is not as relevant as opposed to its spec.
The problem you have is as bright as day in the quote above "but not always easy"; you expect it to be easy but it's a skill you develop over time. Hence the skill disparity. It's not always necessarily getting out of LOS but rather using terrain details (walls, pillars, a sandbag barricade) to your advantage. Also, Sentinels and Shadow can out of combat heal. It's harder with Sentinel but Shadow can especially with double shroud tactical.
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Well, we can all agree I suck, because I have a life and don't have 22 hours a day to dedicate on how to beat any class. I do know Operatives well and I have yet to see any Slinger/Sniper that can beat them when you have a 6 second roll and operatives stuns/evasion and CC and unstoppable.
I'll find another game where there is balance and a lifetime of playing isn't required.
Yes, you suck and now you're playing victim yet you refused to take any advice from Snave calling it for "noobs" or from the other people in this thread. There are PLENTY of videos and even some streams where a Sniper/Slinger can kill operatives, some even 1v1s. You just choose to be ignorant.
You don't even have to play 22 hours a day. I barely play 6hours a day. You just don't bother accepting the advice CAPABLE players give you JUST BECAUSE you're adamant about nerfing Operatives. With a game this old, there are plenty of experienced players people can turn to for advice, you again simply do not accept it because of your inflated ego. If you are indeed the Jarbarian from Theorycrafters Discord, you've only played this game for a year and now you're complaining (if I recall, for the 5th time) about Operatives.
You say you know how to play Operatives well, but you clearly don't know enough in regards how to counter them. It doesn't take a lifetime of playing an MMORPG to understand that you need to either read up on what abilities do what or play the class so you fully understand how it works or ask players for advice (to which, you've refused repeatedly). You just lack the experience that people here who've played long enough to understand how to counter Operative players.
In any other MMORPG, it takes experience, time and practice to be proficient in any class you play, and again more if you want to counter other classes. So good luck to finding a game that'll cater to a crybaby like you.
This is gonna be my last post to this thread.
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Idea of removing solo ranked is wrong. It would be the same mistake as removing 8vs8 ranked was. There are dozens of people playing and enjoying yolos. Despite it many major flaws that mode throughout all seasons has been the most successful end game pvp. Erasing solos would make many people, including sobie of the best pvpers, quit problaby forever (same as removing 8vs8 did back then).
Removing content shouldnt be in generaln considered as a valid solution. Doesnt matter if that content has serious problems since its launch. But if i would absolutely have to sacrfice some of current system to make place for old rwz, it would be group arenas. they have failed to acomplish their main goal to be a pinnacle of swtor end game pvp, where best well-organised teams would compete. Truth is rwz had way more players and big dedicated guilds involved. RWZ streams were also much more popular. In my opinion, there is no doubt that overall group ranked arenas can be considered a failure. BW justyfied swaping them with rwz by population issues (in theory its much easier to get going 4man group than 8man). But after so many years we can clearly see that was a mistake.
I agree that ranked 8v8s should have been the “group ranked” scene rather than 4v4s. However, I don’t think we have the population we once had at launch during s0 8v8s. My problem with group ranked right now is it makes some specs completely unviable whereas 8v8 group ranked would offer some more diversity and cater to more players who play differently and requires more coordination.
I know some guilds who quit the game when 8v8 ranked was removed but would come back if 8v8 ranked was once again implemented. But again, until cross-server ranked becomes a reality, the population to sustain 8v8s in each individual server won’t be possible.
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You act like I am a liar. I play Operative and Scoundrel. Even *I* feel they are OP. 33% immunity, do you feel I am lying?
6 second roll.
2 second immunity.
Basic math, 33%.
Add in all the defensive abilities Scoundrel/Operatives have, in addition to healing and CC and overall the class is just a tad OP. Removing the immunity from roll OR increasing the roll time by double would be a sufficient and MINOR nerf to put them on a level playing field.
Trust me, if you have no CD, an Operative/Scoundrel can take you from 100% to less than 25% in the span of 2 stuns. Yes, they get 2 stuns and yes, they can prevent you from turning to CC them in response.
Are you even on this planet?
2/6 = 0.33. Yes. On paper. You do realise that is not always the case right? As I’ve said countless times, Concealment Operatives (the spec that you seem to whine about), relies on Exfiltrate for mobility; they’re a CHASER class. If people would learn how to kite properly, the uptime for immunity becomes MUCH less. If a Concealment Operative isn’t doing DPS, he is either healing or kiting people around; this gives you the opportunity to attack.
I’ve played Operative since 2.0 but never considered it my main, only played it to UNDERSTAND how the class works so I can LEARN TO COUNTER IT. I’ve been able to hold my own against most Operative players 1v1 and have my teammate cap a node while I’m chasing an Operative/Assassin. I can tell you right now, the two hard stuns comes from the Debilitator Set. Which by the way, is purely up to personal preference. If you’re going to consider about how Flash Bang is a hard stun, you clearly need to reevaluate your skills.
Since you want to bring up how Operatives have so many stuns, you’ve never played against an Assassin. By the way, why are you avoiding my question? I’d really love to see how you fight against Operatives. Oh- wait that’s a rhetorical question, you’re avoiding my question because you simply do not want to see that countering Operatives is as simple as breathing air.
. Yep, the inventory in the PTS is that bad. It overshadows everything else coming to the game, good or bad.
Changes and New Features in 7.0
in General Discussion
Posted
I hope this doesn’t come stand-off’ish but why do you make it sound like they’re removing modded gear entirely?
This doesn’t imply the removal of moddable gear from the game, it just implies that it’s not “the best” for content. There is the Outfit Designer for your favorite armors and weapons if it bothers you that much.
I am annoyed that BioWare is giving us fixed stat values themselves rather than giving us the freedom to allocate them ourselves to begin with, but this wouldn’t be the driving factor with relearning the game. If you’re a solo/casual player with absolutely no interest in the hard content, then you will be fine with your regular routine even without the “best in slot” gear. If gearing is your driving force in this game, then I can see why BioWare would incentivize the diminishing raiding/pvp community by adding gear.
Though I will say, I think everyones complaints are valid and this is certainly bold of BioWare to implement this many changes at once but aside from that, it’s just another expansion learning curve that everyone will get used to— like in any other expansion.