I hope this doesn’t come stand-off’ish but why do you make it sound like they’re removing modded gear entirely? This doesn’t imply the removal of moddable gear from the game, it just implies that it’s not “the best” for content. There is the Outfit Designer for your favorite armors and weapons if it bothers you that much. I am annoyed that BioWare is giving us fixed stat values themselves rather than giving us the freedom to allocate them ourselves to begin with, but this wouldn’t be the driving factor with relearning the game. If you’re a solo/casual player with absolutely no interest in the hard content, then you will be fine with your regular routine even without the “best in slot” gear. If gearing is your driving force in this game, then I can see why BioWare would incentivize the diminishing raiding/pvp community by adding gear. Though I will say, I think everyones complaints are valid and this is certainly bold of BioWare to implement this many changes at once but aside from that, it’s just another expansion learning curve that everyone will get used to— like in any other expansion.

I was under the impression that their post was in reference to strictly cosmetics not gearing. I assumed this because 6.0 gearing revolved around set bonuses which neither Cartel Market Items or Alliance Crates provided and therefore purely are cosmetic. I can understand why people are visibly upset, however I also think that it’s a nice change especially if it could potentially intrigue players into doing harder content— giving them more reason to play. Also, CMIIW (@Devs) I hear that legacy ops will be scaled to level 80 which wouldn’t result in a predetermined stat allocation. I do agree however that going from moddable gear to predetermined stats is a bit much considering it takes away the freedom to freely allocate stats to fit our playstyles.

As said above, if you’re worried about cosmetics, nothing (as far as we know) is affected by the changes in 7.0. 7.0 introduces a different gearing path— what this means is that you have to “grind” out a whole new different set of gear for the 7.0 expansion; typical for any MMOs. I’m not sure where you got the idea that they’ll be essentially removing moddable/adaptive gear however, it does not affect cosmetics in any way nor will BioWare delete items owned by players especially when Cartel Market items are involved, at least without notice.

It’s a confirmed bug.

I find this argument to be hilarious in that it’s almost as if you’re rewarding complacency. As elitist as it sounds, it’s still the hardest content to do (and as much of a joke it is right now aside from NiM Gods and Dxun), people who spend the necessary time to understand the fight and their class should be rewarded for it and not the other way where BioWare essentially spoonfeeds players just because “It’s difficult”. I understand that people play the game for fun and for their own leisure, but at the same time, if you’re doing the hardest content available, it is expected that it will demand more from you, whether it be learning how to optimize your dps or just being more mechanically aware. This expectation applies to any MMO with end game raiding. And to clarify, you don’t necessarily have to be the best to do the content. You just have to put in the effort. Let’s not reward laziness. Thanks.

Following this logic, you also impose (albeit unintentionally) the question: “why do healers and x class have Rez”. You could argue that Healer rez’s x person as soon as they die and a stealther could break that mechanic by stealthing out to stealth rez in most fights. You’re also comparing defining abilities to an ability to reset/offset certain things. In addition to this, I vehemently believe that if a group is highly reliant on this mechanic is a problem the group has themselves. There is not many fight where you’ll need to use a medpack at all or need a second, perhaps in Zorn and Toth in NIM Explosive Conflict. In all the years that these content has been available, many groups have been able to do the content without a stealther needing to stealth out to reset a medpack. Is it a nice luxury? Absolutely but is it a requirement or rather is it necessary to successfully clear the content? Absolutely not. My point is with your argument of stealthers “needing” to stealth out for an extra medpack as an extra dcd or heal, that problem is not your fault (in a group environment that raids are), but rather a problem with the people in that group. For example, are the healers healing effectively and efficiently? Are the heals going to the right people? Are people taking too much damage, and from what? Following this question would impose the question, how can we avoid this much damage? This is what progression raiding is. All of these questions attribute your usage and the availability of your dcds. You could get away with some fights not needing to use medpacks at all if everyone is in unison even.

And once again, you have neither added more claims to support this argument other than persistently pushing “it needs to be removed from all game modes or left as it is”. How is PvP the same as PvE? How are NPCs the same as Humans? So my counterargument here is, why do you need the ability to reset medpacks? Every class is comparable even without the medpack reset. I would argue that PT is the weakest in terms of defensive capabilities, and this class does perfectly fine without needing to use medpack more than once. Ultimately, we will never know how this change will affect stealthers to do content until release. But I will say this, skill factor will contribute to how well stealthers can do them, and that’s just an obvious fact. Will it be more difficult? Possibly. Will you need to come up with different strategies? Most likely. But that is just the nature of MMOs.

How is this not factual evidence? You’ve been PERSISTENT on treating PvP and PvE “equally” when it’s two different entities in it’s entirety. PvP: Players vs Players, players have the luxury to think for themselves and adjust to the situation they are in. PvE: Players vs Environment, you are fighting NPCs that only follow a sequence of codes and scripts. They are unable to adjust to “unique” situations such as when you use Vanish to cheese a mechanic. Are you saying that Flashpoints and Operations are not under the same “PvE Umbrella”? Sorry but I wholeheartedly disagree. Operations are just big Flashpoints that require 8 players rather than 4. If you’re just complaining about how it affects Flashpoints, then why did you bring PvP into it at all? You’ve done absolutely nothing to provide context as to why it should stay as it is in Flashpoints and Operations. You’ve once again proven that you’re just upset because it affects the one piece of content you care to do rather than thinking about the game in its entirety. Why I’ve been getting you to address why you think PvPers have any special treatment in this change is because you first drew to the conclusion that PvP and PvE content are the same when they are in fact different pieces of content. And everything I quoted from you in the above spoilers tab supports my argument as they were things you yourself have commented in this thread. You have never in those five posts addressed why this change was bad for Flashpoints specifically, but rather attacked the idea with the notion of PvPers of having special treatment and demanded that PvP and PvE contents to be equal. I won’t dive too deep into the context in Operations since you said that you’re only referring to flashpoints but this is what you said when you commented on the Vanish change: You’ve addressed trash packs, roots, snares, knockbacks and those being the reason why people opt to Stealth them. The post you replied to did not say that “Hey, you can’t stealth skip anymore. **** your stealth”. It said: Tell me where it says “You can’t use Stealth to skip past trash packs”. It only said what it said above, and I’m not quite sure where you got the idea that they’re removing stealth completely in PvE content. You drew to this conclusion here as well: If you forget to stealth before running into mob packs, that is simply on you. Not the game. If there’s mobs with Stealth Detection (i.e. The new Mandalorian flashpoint), how is it any different than not being able to exit combat via stealth if there’s a possibility that you’ll be caught by another mob that can detect you in stealth? Additionally, “to make them as melee unfriendly as possible” does not mean impossible. You are able to do these as melee, solo-able even with little sweat. You just choose to be complacent and take the easy route. Many players have been able to solo Master Mode Flashpoints as a melee class. Also, if I wanted to attack your views I would rather do it directly rather than taking the time to write paragraphs of counter arguments which you view as rants. What I choose to write are simply logical thinking from my perspective and if you view it as an attack to your opinions, that’s your problem. I have neither intended nor have started to “attack” your opinions. Up until this post anyways. But as far as I can tell, you’re only selectively reading what I have posted so far anyways.

So like I had said to above this post, would it be more “fair” to not count the weekly reset outside of the current rotation? I don’t know if I can explain this as well as I thought of it in my mind, but for example: Week 1: Complete x Heroic Missions by Week 2 All other weekly missions wouldn’t be reset by week 2, allowing you more time to do these missions. Obviously Week 1 is a time constraint but to incentivize that, the rewards would be more worthwhile? The only flaw I see with this is that you can have a jump start on other weekly missions, so my proposition to that would be to make a “new” mission detailing the same objectives as other weekly missions; making it a separate entity outside of normal weekly missions. (Similarly to how Conquest has missions that require you to complete certain weekly missions in that week). Sorry if this seemed like a clutter chain of thoughts.

Okay. I can understand this more now. So, big hypothetical IF (and this is a suggestion), what if in their “weekly” rotation, the hard reset only applies to the Weekly Mission in that specific rotation, say, do 10 heroics during this week before you’re hard reset. They could provide an incentive to boost the rewards for each rotation rather than resetting all weekly missions? Not sure if I conveyed that correctly lmao. I wouldn’t mind if they brought back the losses counting towards weekly. The only reason why I was for that change in the first place was I noticed people wouldn’t try or stop trying at all, obviously this is influenced by the majority that just want to farm numbers and kills, I’m guilty of that. If the “must win” requirement must stay, would it be more reasonable for the dev team to lower how many wins you need?

Answer me this then, are you not being dramatic right now? Constantly crying about how “this won’t be the same game again” or “PvPer’s are getting special treatment again with this Vanish change”. LOL. Bold of you to assume that I even bothered to report it. It clearly states in the forum TOS to avoid spam. I wouldn’t need to report it in a general discussion initiated by the devs (and forum moderators) to moderate the thread that they want to receive feedback from. I simply just warned you of the consequences before you start accusing others of reporting your responses for spam and potentially have it removed. I guess it was moot either way since not only have you proven me to be correct, but you also make yourself seem to be more unwilling to listen to discussion especially if you view my opinions on the vanish change as an attack to your opinion. To the double standards, I replied to those threads at different time intervals which were 10 minutes apart from each post. Whereas your posts in this page http://https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=998128&page=15, your first post,#146 at 11:51AM (from my screen) neither contributed to the discussion nor helped your case as to why it’s a bad nerf. Instead, you simply said “Read my first post” instead of providing more context to make it easier to understand your side of the argument. You then proceeded to follow up at #147, at 11:53AM to imply that I am selectively reading. In a post that both of these replies were under. Not to mention that you, once again, viewed it as an attack to your opinions and retaliated rather than asking “why is it a dumb argument”. Your third post, #147 at 11:56AM, you still argued the same reason why Vanish needs to be removed from all game modes, and your only supporting argument with that is “PvPers have special treatment” despite a few people giving VALID reasons as to why it’s not the same case as PvE. Literally the use of capitalization, especially in quotes, have nothing to do with me getting the point across because I don’t have one. I’m in multiple raiding discords where I have first hand witnessed people saying those exact same things I have said in capital letters. The only reason why my replies seem argumentative is because you have neither given me any validity to your claims, especially with your argument with PvPers having special treatment over this change. Meanwhile, I and another person have given you ample reason as to why it’s not the same comparison. Despite that, you still continued with the same boring “special treatment” argument. If anything, you’re being hypocritical and are selectively reading to make your argument more valid by ignoring our counter arguments. There you are again being overly dramatic that this ONE change will destroy PvE content indefinitely, on top of not providing any more evidence to support your claim. Anyone remember when Off-Tank classes got a nerf to Guard? I distinctly remember people freaking out about it like people are right now with Vanish. Or how about when the Renown gearing change and the removal of Galactic Command? People were FURIOUS. What happened? Their arguments were inconsequential because people adapted to it and figured out different ways to handle things. What people, at least on this forum don’t seem to understand is that MMOs will constantly change and it’s up to the player base to adapt to it. If you can’t, then sorry maybe MMOs aren’t for you. If you’ve played WoW, they are always constantly changing the meta and their gearing structure for every expansion. Just because something hasn’t been changed for years doesn’t necessarily mean it won’t. EDIT: Anyone remember when Veterans Edge was introduced to NiM Content? People complaining about it being removed because it made NiM VERY VERY EASY. Sorry but to say that all game modes need to be treated equally would be ignorant and almost impossible. If you think it’s possible to balance the two different entities (PvE and PvP) and please 100% of the player base, I suggest you submit a resume to BioWare.

It was a rhetorical question. Also, instead of spamming this thread with multiple posts with one to three sentences to the posts you’re trying to reply to I suggest you dump them into one post before it gets marked as spam then deleted and you have another thing to complain about. How is it selective reading? Fact of the matter is no one knows how big of an effect this change has and yet so many people are acting like they won’t be able to play the game anymore because “WAAAAAA I CAN’T DO THIS MECHANIC WITHOUT STEALTHING IT ANYMORE WAAAAAAAH” or “WAAAAAAAAAAAH THEY GAVE US TWO REZZES AND NOW I CANT STEALTH REZ CHAIN ANYMORE WAAAAAAAAAH”. If you don’t realize just how strong Vanish is in PvE is, I don’t know what to say to you. The fact that chain rezzing is only feasible by stealth rez breaks the intended use of Healers using rez for one person only and only being able to use it after every 5 minutes. Not to get 3 people who died from a mechanic that could have been AVOIDED ENTIRELY. Not to mention the fact that you’re able to cheese mechanics that you’re supposed to deal with. But hey, complacency and lack of critical thinking is a thing I guess. If your whole group is centred around stealth cheeses or stealth rezzes, you have bigger issues and complacency is one of them. Why do I say complacency? Because it seems to me that the people complaining about the Vanish nerf are somehow incapable of thinking of other ways to deal with literally one mechanic. Either that or they were fed information that that says “Oh you absolutely need a Sin Tank handling this” and not once have tried to figuring out other ways to deal with that one mechanic without a sin tank constantly. Don’t get me wrong, some classes are better at handling it than others and therefore easier but certainly not impossible. And once again, there are no mechanics in PvP and Open World Zones to break! PvP, all you have to do is not die; kill or be killed. That’s not a mechanic, that’s the “goal” if you will. You can’t chain rez your teammates like you can in Operations. You can’t cheese intended mechanics like you can in Operations. In Arenas or Warzones, you’re fighting against other players; people who can and will try to chase you down so you cannot heal. You’re never truly out of combat in PvP, the unpredictable nature of players vs the predictable nature of a preprogrammed boss. Not sure why this is such a foreign concept.

I think the issue with Group Finder goes beyond than composition, it’s the population size unfortunately. I wouldn’t mind DPS with rez capabilities (Operatives, Mercs, Sorcs) keeping their rez abilities if I guess they kept the in combat system as is (instead of 1 rez per 5 minutes, its 2 per 5 minutes for each one being used) that could be a better alternative. I think in Operations, at least for an organized group, people expect the healers to do the rez’s so this won’t necessarily be that much of a big deal.

Okay fair point. I only brought up endgame because that’s typically my goal in MMOs. Let me ask this then, and I by no means am being toxic as it’s a curiosity. Are you not doing yourself a disservice by taking a much longer time to complete the weeklies in that one week? If, and this is a hypothetical application to you since I don’t know you, but if your goal is to maximize weekly rewards per week, wouldn’t it make more sense to finish them in that time frame? But if your goal is to just play casually and do what you can however you like, I still think that you’re able to achieve both. Obviously it’ll be much more difficult to do that on multiple characters now but for RP purposes lets say, you want to play as a Merc and then want to play Sniper, you’re able to change classes from Combat Styles. I don’t follow. Aren’t the weeklies in conquest Legacy locked; once you complete them on one character, you can’t complete it on another? Or are you referring to the base amount of conquest given from the missions themselves and not the conquest missions?

Just gonna address these points 2. How will the Vanish change affect DPS? (Sorry I totally misread what was posted). My question still stands. 3. I’m just gonna say get good to the healers. Why? If a Healer dies, it’s more than likely it’s their fault. Either they weren’t paying attention to insta kill mechanics or didn’t pop a dcd to help mitigate a big hitting mechanic and didn’t top themselves off fast enough. Taking 1.5s? to revive someone is not a long time and that 1.5s should not determine a wipe or force healers to be in a situation where they have to be positioned “properly” to pull a rez. 4. I honestly beg to differ. If you’re planning out a raid composition based on utilities and not how adept someone is at their class or the raids in SWTOR in general, you are making a mistake. The content has always been doable outside of meta. More time consuming and “harder” sure but it’s not really different from any other MMOs. 5. I’m fairly certain that even with the dcd pruning, Sin Tanks will stay viable. I’m not sure as to what extent light/heavy armours affect survivability. But even then, that shouldn’t determine your ability to clear content. Endgame content is meant to be challenging. People need to be hitting the dps/heal checks (moreso relevant now since I hear they’re scaling legacy nims to 80). People can’t afford to make big mistakes mechanically. The only thing I’m more concerned about outside of this, that no one has even given a thought based on what I’ve read is how well can BioWare scale older content to current level. Especially when there haven’t been a proper testing ground in the PTS from what I can tell.

Such a classic comeback. Do you really need to use Vanish to successfully clear the content LOL. Finding an alternative solution too hard for you? Such a competent NiM Raider /s. Once again, if you need to heavily rely on stealth to cheese mechanics you have bigger issues. The devs have been aware of this for YEARS. Why they haven't addressed it early on is beyond me. https://www.swtor.com/community/archive/index.php/t-122546.html From the old forums where DPS with Rez capabilities had 15min CD. Just imagine this though, a game designer designs a boss fight mechanic only to be able to cheese it via Vanish. Also, aren't they making it so that both healers are able to use Revive? You now have two revives available making Stealth Rez irrelevant. If it's for a stylish preference, that's a fair argument I guess. In PvP you're never truly out of combat as you're fighting other players. There's a CHANCE you'll be hunted and never have the opportunity to fully heal. If you do manage to heal (and this is in a 1vX siituation) you also give them the opportunity to heal. Also in PvP there's no mechanics aside from the expectation of not dying. Your comparing apples to oranges when you say For one, Assassin can also Stealth Rez and it cannot spec into heals. Only Operatives are capable of that. Two, Taunts and Guard do not break intended game mechanics. Three, Off Tank Specs did get nerfed by nerfing the damage they dealt while they were guarding another person. This was in the 6.x era. People complained about it like how they are right now about stealth rez (primarily for pvp reasons) how did it turn out? It turned out FINE. People were still able to offguard like normal. I guess I can understand that the amount of changes happening is too sudden given that the game itself rarely ever releases big changes like these so people just grow complacent and stick to what they currently know or have. Unlike WoW where the meta is constantly evolving. Literally most MMO does this. WoW is notorious for it. SWTOR have done this (5.0 to 6.0 to 7.0; Command -> Renown -> Legendaries). The only reason why people are complaining about it is because once again, SWTOR doesn't push out enough content consistently enough for players (especially newer players) to adapt accordingly.

Regarding Vanish, does no one really understand stealthing out to drop out of combat was unintended? I still fail to see how it’s a survivability nerf when no one has yet seen the applications of these nerfs in actual content. Everyone is making it seem like it’s the end of the game because “Oh no! We have no stealth to cheese ONE mechanic” or “Oh no! Three people are dead and we can’t stealth rez anymore”. The game as it is allows you to carry people performing very poorly in legacy NiM. More so because of Nightmare Crystals. If people play SWTOR for solo content, I’m sorry but it’s better to play an RPG game than an MMO. If people are complaining about this vanish change because they rely on it heavily, and let me use the Stealth Rez example, if you need to pull off a stealth rez after a healer rez, wouldn’t that mean people didn’t fully understand the mechanics and that they needed to not mess up the next time? It’s a group progression for a reason.

I have an honest question for you and people that take several days to complete weeklies, is that all you (and everyone who follows this logic) do in this game? I personally don’t find the rewards very appealing so I stopped doing all of them. Look, I get it. People have lives so I can understand the frustration, I have my own as well. But if all you do is the weeklies, what’s the point if you’re not even pursuing endgame content. The weekly missions themselves don’t even require 6+ hours to complete (aside from PvP and maybe Iokath weeklies). 5 VM, 3 MM and a weekly per Operation, what else am I missing? Seasonal weekly events? All of these can be completed in under 12 hours that’s simply just about two hours a day. You have a life but I honestly don’t buy into people not having time to do these missions in a timely manner. Sorry. I know a lot of people waste their time standing around in fleet or their guild flagship doing absolutely nothing then realize “oh **** I didn’t do my weekly I won’t have time to complete it when reset comes around” The weekly missions themselves aren’t too difficult but rather a small time investment as is any game. Also, Keith has been in charge for awhile now.

Sorry but this is quite possibly the worst reasoning I have ever read. You’re reasoning is almost the same exact reasoning as “hey lets bring a Sin DPS for the extra stealth utility” and not for how well they play their class. The meta is shifting yes. Does that mean that all other classes won’t become viable? No. You simply adapt to the change. For the record, “don’t die” is a mechanic in any game. If you need to rely on stealth to “not die”, have you ever considered that maybe you’re the problem?

Why are you so hellbent on nerfing the only characteristic stealthers have in PvP? You say you’ve done enough PvP but clearly not enough. Let’s go back to the stealth-heal argument: In a 1vX environment and you whittled down one person then you need to heal out of combat, that gives the other people to heal out of combat as well OR run around the map to find you in your vulnerable state. One person could run around to 1v1 you but that’s a matter of skill whether or not the stealther wins. Then what was the point of stealthing out if your intent was to hit them again BEFORE they heal? Or are you implying that they hit them, stealth out to heal (and at which point, the other guy also has the option to heal in a 1v1 scenario). You’re never really “out of combat” in PvP, there are instances where you can get away to heal but there are also instances where you’re hunted down. That’s the difference between NPCs and Players. Players will use their brains while NPCs stick to a preprogrammed code. Vanish was NEVER intended to skip a mechanic in PvE. It’s basically a long overdue bug that just happened to be considered “acceptable” and the norm to certain phases, Tyth Knockback and Brontes Channel in P2 as a couple example. And yes, it’s the devs that are at fault only fixing it now. Sorry but there are people who have soloed the new flashpoints on Mastermode as a PT. The last few flashpoints might be melee unfriendly but isn’t it a test of skill to be able to work around it? And yes, I’m saying: Get Good.

I can't tell if this is a legitimate feedback or a troll post to blame PvPers for this change but care to explain why this is another case of PVP behavior? Please re-read: This change does not affect PVP whatsoever so please explain to me why a change that has no effect on PVP is somehow "another case of PVP behavior ruining other game aspects."

Someone compiled a list of your QQ threads in one of your posts so I just thought it would be nice to go down memory lane again. I will repeat what I said in your other Operatives are GODLY QQ thread: GET GOOD. No disrespect when I say this, but the reason why PvP, ranked specifically at least on NA is a **** show is because of people like you who cannot accept criticism and constantly complain that someone is better than you. Rather than even remotely accepting you are not as good as you make yourself seem to be, you instead complain on the forums as evident by the links above. The word "anymore" implies that you're unable to kill a merc as of this moment. However, there have not been any major balancing patches. All of that is reserved for 7.0. Once again: Get Good. This awfully sounds familiar oh wait it's the same exact reasoning you used in this thread https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=986692 This goes to everyone giving advice and I like to think that a majority of players understand that the class is not as relevant as opposed to its spec. The problem you have is as bright as day in the quote above "but not always easy"; you expect it to be easy but it's a skill you develop over time. Hence the skill disparity. It's not always necessarily getting out of LOS but rather using terrain details (walls, pillars, a sandbag barricade) to your advantage. Also, Sentinels and Shadow can out of combat heal. It's harder with Sentinel but Shadow can especially with double shroud tactical.

Yes, you suck and now you're playing victim yet you refused to take any advice from Snave calling it for "noobs" or from the other people in this thread. There are PLENTY of videos and even some streams where a Sniper/Slinger can kill operatives, some even 1v1s. You just choose to be ignorant. You don't even have to play 22 hours a day. I barely play 6hours a day. You just don't bother accepting the advice CAPABLE players give you JUST BECAUSE you're adamant about nerfing Operatives. With a game this old, there are plenty of experienced players people can turn to for advice, you again simply do not accept it because of your inflated ego. If you are indeed the Jarbarian from Theorycrafters Discord, you've only played this game for a year and now you're complaining (if I recall, for the 5th time) about Operatives. You say you know how to play Operatives well, but you clearly don't know enough in regards how to counter them. It doesn't take a lifetime of playing an MMORPG to understand that you need to either read up on what abilities do what or play the class so you fully understand how it works or ask players for advice (to which, you've refused repeatedly). You just lack the experience that people here who've played long enough to understand how to counter Operative players. In any other MMORPG, it takes experience, time and practice to be proficient in any class you play, and again more if you want to counter other classes. So good luck to finding a game that'll cater to a crybaby like you. This is gonna be my last post to this thread.

I agree that ranked 8v8s should have been the “group ranked” scene rather than 4v4s. However, I don’t think we have the population we once had at launch during s0 8v8s. My problem with group ranked right now is it makes some specs completely unviable whereas 8v8 group ranked would offer some more diversity and cater to more players who play differently and requires more coordination. I know some guilds who quit the game when 8v8 ranked was removed but would come back if 8v8 ranked was once again implemented. But again, until cross-server ranked becomes a reality, the population to sustain 8v8s in each individual server won’t be possible.

2/6 = 0.33. Yes. On paper. You do realise that is not always the case right? As I’ve said countless times, Concealment Operatives (the spec that you seem to whine about), relies on Exfiltrate for mobility; they’re a CHASER class. If people would learn how to kite properly, the uptime for immunity becomes MUCH less. If a Concealment Operative isn’t doing DPS, he is either healing or kiting people around; this gives you the opportunity to attack. I’ve played Operative since 2.0 but never considered it my main, only played it to UNDERSTAND how the class works so I can LEARN TO COUNTER IT. I’ve been able to hold my own against most Operative players 1v1 and have my teammate cap a node while I’m chasing an Operative/Assassin. I can tell you right now, the two hard stuns comes from the Debilitator Set. Which by the way, is purely up to personal preference. If you’re going to consider about how Flash Bang is a hard stun, you clearly need to reevaluate your skills. Since you want to bring up how Operatives have so many stuns, you’ve never played against an Assassin. By the way, why are you avoiding my question? I’d really love to see how you fight against Operatives. Oh- wait that’s a rhetorical question, you’re avoiding my question because you simply do not want to see that countering Operatives is as simple as breathing air.