ConVallian
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Posts posted by ConVallian
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Ah, thanks. Actually should I? Otherwise who decides the winner?
I do, of course.
JK this will be interesting to see how these two match up, both are my favorite from the PT era. I'm a little bias'd towards Fisto though. he's been a favorite of mine for along time. Dat grin will win this lol
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Kit Fisto vs Plo Koon
Arena: Jedi High Council Chamber (without the masters in the chairs)
Starting distance: 10 meters
I would've left the masters in the chairs just to make it interesting
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i have a feeling we should end this at 12. the farther we get down thelist more and more candidates become eligible and we will end up going back and forth forever
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As I do not think anyone has answered your question directly...
IMO the Knights of Zaakul fall into the category of "Force Adept." Force-Sensitive and trained in specific aspects of the Force to allow them to perform their duties, but they are not on the level of a trained Jedi or Sith.
This^ they are trained force users and skilled fighters but they only use the force as a means to bring justice. They dont delve into the depths of the force as a fully trained Jedi or Sith would. The Scions on the other hand are more comparable in force power than the knights. The average Zakuul knight is probably a padawan or acolyte tier when it comes to using the force, they are mostly trained as peacekeepers if you will.
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As an incorporeal being he's barred from consideration I'm afraid.
if thats the case shouldnt vitiate/valky be removed then? he's basically an essence now, he aint really mortal
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Nah, we are only considering for this list characters post-4000 BBY, however there are plans further down the line to do an exclusive Ancient Sith list. Though Soa, as emerging during the TOR era, would be considered.As an incorporeal being he's barred from consideration I'm afraid.
oh oops sorry
EDIT: actually wouldnt that be a good reason he should be on here?
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I'd suggest Darth Nihilus for this list as well.
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whats the number cap? like how many are we going for, 10? 20? 12?
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It's not that I forgot about that, it's just that ATM it looks like Valky could literally just eat Tython and eliminate the Jedi, it would be harder but it would be quicker than an 1000 year wait. I also realize that he wouldn't be able to control the Galaxy after that but still, perhaps I'm just jaded about BioWare characters.
the same could be said about sidious as well, if he was so powerful the jedi shouldnt have been a threat
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Yeah, bit of a typing fail there, I just meant to put the 'peace time' Jedi.
Im not confronting you or anything but i think i don't understand what you mean
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The only reason the power levels bug me at times is due to how it affects the Rule of Two and the idea of 'peace time' Jedi. Apart from that I agree with you, though I think we all know that Revan can't beat Overlord Fisto.
How does it affect the rue of 2?
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Very good response, there are only two things I would say. First is that while yes, the writers shouldn't have to think ahead about power levels, they should look back to get a general feel of what's top tier and what isn't. The perfect example being Revan throwing back an amped Marr, the PC, an amped Lana, Satele and the others. Secondly, this is mainly to do with the last bits, while statements of "best of their time" are just used to beef characters up, that is different compared to characters who have statements of "among the best/most powerful of all time". This is where I reach my point of annoyance with Valky and Revan surpassing Yoda and Vader respectively, as Yoda's been stated as the best Jedi ever pre-Luke and Vader has been stated as 80% of Sidious.
I suppose my issue is that I'm getting tired of power creep when it's only because of story and/or fans. I honestly don't think Valky/Vitiate would have been shown as this powerful if it wasn't to make the PC's/new enemies look more powerful and I doubt Revan would have returned if there hadn't have been the massive backlash of the Foundry ending.
I agree with you for the most part. I personally didnt like the idea of Revan being in this game at all, alive anyway. Holocron or force ghost yes, but when he survives and comes back it somehow diminishes Revan's character for me. Revan is my favorite SW character period and i love bioware but there comes a point where fan service becomes to much. As for power levels of these characters, it really is no big deal for me at all, If Pt is stronger or if the OR is it doesnt make a difference to me.
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To answer your question not sarcastically: For me it's not about that, I don't even really like Sidious. It's more about Bioware not giving a **** about established lore. For the last 30 years or more Luke and Sidious was the most powerful force users in Star Wars. Every EU author so far could keep it in their pants and don't overwank their characters, and now Bioware seems to **** all on that.
This is what annoys me about BioWare, their power creep. While I like Sidious he isn't in my favoritesWell to be fair the "established lore" is no longer there, Valkorion incarnation of Vitiate arrived after the canon wipe, and at this point Bioware and Disney are basically on two different continuities. Even before then the only thing that set Vitiate apart fro sidious was his skill the ancient dark arts, but he was never shown more poweul than sidious. Even now he is only on-par with Sidious. No one in this game is going to surpass Luke and sidious from the old EU.
On a side note, do you really think authors and game designers are thinking of other properties when they use certain quotes and show things in their games?
Lucas sure as hell wasnt thinking anyone was stronger than Luke and Sidious, because in his mind his story was the only one canon (which is kinda true) and even in the Novels set the PT era where they use the quote "one of the best of the order" for almost everybody, do you really think they were thinking "oh we cant say that because a game will come out ina few years with even more powerful characters" No they were just wrriting stories and added quotes to make their characters appear more interesting and powerful, the same thing bioware is doing.
Dont get me wrong i'm not one to get involved in pissing contests between OR and PT anymore, but the "best of" characters of both eras are equally on par with each other
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Would it be that big of a deal if Valkorian becomes as/or is as powerful as sidious? I fail to see this as an issue, other than guys not wanting their PT era and onward gods being rivaled by someone from the old republic
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If you haven't read it I would also suggest Yoda Dark Rendezvous for the exact same reason.
i have it but i havent read it yet, i found it in a box with old books, it isnt in the best of shape though lol
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I highly suggest the Annihilation novel,it's one of my favorites, its a nice change of pace from reading about the all powerful sith and jedi once in awhile.
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While Gnost could certainly adapt to Djem So, it doesn't have a hard counter, the closest thing to that would be Ataru, but Gnost didn't master that form. Also Plo doesn't seem to use a textbook Djem So.
As for Gnost's tactical mind. I bet Plo isn't lacking there either:
Actually Soresu is considered the best counter to Djem so. But that like a unstoppable force hitting an unmovable object. I dont think he specialized it as much as Anakin did but it is his favored form like you suggested
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I'll give it to you on the fact that as far as dueling capabilities go Ventress was better than anyone Gnost faced in this book. But i still have a hard time thinking she is more of a threat than 2 sith lords and 2 apprentices back to back. While yes Gnost trained Karrid in Niman, the form she normally defaults to, she was also trained by Darth Malgus, and both Gnost and Karrid implied she had skilled herself in other forms, most likely form V like Malgus. But unfortunately the duel was cut short before Karrid and Gnost finished.
On your question as to did the book state how good his opponents were. Well the 2 apprentices are just that, apprentices. If you want to compare with PT it would probably look like how a duel between Kenobi vs Bariss and Ahsoka at the same time would look like. And he was winning the duel until Karrid and later her troopers interrupted and overpowered him. And even when Karrid showed up he held his own, but granted its hard to go all out on the strongest Sith in the room whos firing lightning at you while being attacked from both sides by much younger foes.
Also Darth Karrid was a Dark Council member head of the sphere of technology, was her physical prowess as good as the other council members? Not by a long shot. Where she shined was her control of the force and her affinity with the dark side, as evident in her being able to control the Ascendant Spear.
Now the two sith lords, the only thing the book said was they were strong allies of Karrids. Now each one gave a good performance and before the Spear was set to detonate, Gnost was about to lose, but granted this is after his torture session and they are on a Nexus, The only reason Gnost lasted as long as he did was experience and his ability to read his opponents moves and his unorthodox tactics at times. But im sure a 100% health Gnost would defeat each one individually with relative ease, but we are only showed a exhausted Gnost versus two healthy sith lords at one time and he still held them off.
The only real powerful threat he faced was Darth Karrid and both times they faced off in the book he was facing two other opponents and the duels were cut short before Karrid went all out. The first one she was spectating most of it and the second time she was distracted by theran shan.Gnost stated to himself in the first encounter that he didnt think he was able to defeat Karrid once she starts to fight. Give me a little bit to sort through the book and ill post it here. So the novel and he himself implied Karrid was alot stronger than him. But like you said he had a bit of advantage with him being her old mentor and all that, but she had spent years training in the Dark side under a different master since she was his padawan, the book is vague on the timeline, but i'd say 10 years is a far guess as to how long she was sith, so it wasnt like last month he was teaching her and this month they are fighting.
So all in all Ventress is a far better duelist than these 5, but Karrid's forte was the force, she was a reverse Ventress. Gnost only had a chance because of his tactile mind, experience and unorthodox fighting style, he had a counter for almost every situation, but sometimes all this manages to do is delay the inevitable, which was the case in his last fight in the book. But i just dont see Ventress being a bigger threat than all these together after being tortured for 10 hours. I think Karrid is stronger in the force (lightning,Alchemy, sorcery and the like) than ventress but if she let ventress get close its over for her.
And to your TK comparison. Orgus Din was able to cause cave ins with his TK as well and he is admittedly pretty weak, while Gnost is alot stronger than he is. I'm not saying Gnost is stronger than Plo by any means, but i am suggesting he is a little smarter. He literally analysis every detail in his opponents form while he is fighting them. He would probably notice Plo is form V specialist right away and adjust his fighting style accordingly and fend him off till he found or made an opening. I honestly think this fight could go on for a long time. I dont see either one having an edge in force power, and their styles are different. I'd say it all comes down to endurance. It would come down if Plo is able to overpower him before he gets outsmarted, or if Gnost can hold him off until he found an opening, honestly i think this fight could go either way any time
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Crap i almost forgot about this lol.
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Ya, no way they would leave Ezra dark if he did fall a bit.
Me, I just hope he becomes less useless.
No we all know Filoni isn't going to kill off any of his main characters or have them turn, without redemption anyway.
I still think our Ahsoka v Vader is a tease. But the bottom line.. even if the creators want to..do you really think Disney XD will let them kill any main character or have them become evil?
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Interesting, first time i've actually been interested in Rebels.
The whole Maul and Ezra thing..we might be seeing the origins of the Knights of Ren. I could see Maul escaping and going into exile studying the ways of the ancient sith and training new pupils that become the Knights of Ren Maybe those first pupils end up being Ezra and the 7th sister.
A Vader-Maul fight would awesome as well. If maul dies it has to be at the hands of Vader or Kenobi.
But I think its a tease. Ahsoka V Vader is a vision not them actually dueling.
and i doubt Aladdin...er...Ezra will truly turn to the darkside.
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really a good Jedi centric game is something ive wanted for along time
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BioWare give this person a job! Great idea for a game.
i second it!
Also the character customization should be great, for once i liked to play as a jedi that looks like a jedi lol They should use the hidden color crystals like they did in TFU. I can see it now dueling the man who trained the man who trained the man who trained Palpatine lol
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The biggest problem here seems to be in terms of combat Revan and Vader are pretty much equals. But Revan beats him as a user of the Force. I still think Vader is better with a blade but Revan is more powerful
Kit Fisto (PadsterPwns) vs Plo Koon (Jarons)
in STAR WARS Discussion
Posted