Scoundrel Scrapper Underdog: Increases the critical damage dealt by Back Blast, Sucker Punch, Blood Boiler, and Bludgeon by 10% (down from 30%). Ruffian Cheap Shots: Increases the damage dealt by Quick Shot, Blaster Volley, Point Blank Shot, and Brutal Shots by 5%. Additionally, after using Point Blank Shot you gain Cheap Shots for 6 seconds, which increases the damage done of Shrap Bomb and Vital Shot by 10% (down from 20%). Black Market Equipment: Increases the critical hit chance of all periodic effects by 5% (down from 10%). Mortal Wound: Vital Shot has a 10% (down from 15%) chance to deal its damage twice whenever it harms a target. In addition, Shrap Bomb makes its targets assailable for 45 seconds. Assailable targets take 7% more elemental and internal damage. Operative Concealment Meticulously Kept Blades: Increases the critical damage dealt by Veiled Strike, Backstab, Volatile Substance and Laceration by 10% (down from 30%). Lethality Cut Down: Increases the damage dealt by Lethal Strike, Overload Shot, Carbine Burst, and Corrosive Assault by 5%. Additionally, after using Lethal Strike you gain Cut Down for 6 seconds, which increases the damage done by Corrosive Grenade and Corrosive Dart by 10% (down from 20%). Lethal Dose: Increases the critical hit chance of all periodic effects by 5% (down from 10%). Corrosive Microbes: Corrosive Dart has a 10% chance (down from 15%) to deal its damage twice whenever it harms a target. Corrosive Grenade makes its targets assailable for 45 seconds. Assailable targets take 7% more elemental and internal damage. BioWare remains silent about why these changes were not included in the official patch notes. There is no good reason for the changes themselves either. The class hasn't exactly been overperforming in PVE in 3.X. In PVP we used to be good at 3 things: node guarding, huttball carrying and 1vs1. Now we are less good at guarding and 1vs1. We are better at huttball, but so are most of the other classes. The only reason for a nerf I can think of is the fact that people can take a 1vs1 defeat personally and that could lead to a big number of complaints against the very small scoundrel/operative community. However, this is not a good reason for a nerf. In fact, it's a terrible one. The result is that the class is effectively dead in PVE. Even the best players can't compete against good players of any other class. And in PVP the situation is almost as bad: there is little to no reason to play the class, since it's now even further from it's most similar counterpart - shadows/sins. And even though most people that play the class would prefer the much more interesting Scrapper/Concealment spec, the fact that the other spec also got crippled, is an even worse blow against a class that was already the most underused in the game. Here are a couple of quotes I've heard from other players since 4.0: "Operative DPS in PVP is like a dog humping you: it's annoying but it won't hurt you." "BioWare nerfing the least used melee class because they can."

In PVE you can't even do that. Resistance to stuns won't help in raids. In 2.X Scrapper/concealment was good, I actually knew of other players except me that used the class in progression. In 3.X lethality/ruffian was fine and scrapper wasn't as good as before. After 3.0 I didn't know a single person on my server that used the class in progression anymore but I was still doing fine and you could say that the class was "underrated" but could be very good in the right hands. After 4.0 both specs got killed, the class went from "underrated" to useless and it really hurts me to say it. I scraped up some warzone comms and updated my old pvp gear, did a few warzones. The low damage, coupled with the buffs to some of the other classes... I thought I was hitting like a wet noodle compared to what it used to be. It's so bad that even hardcore fans of the class like me are considering abandoning it and the few people that used to play it on alts will become even fewer or none at all.

@Snave, please take a look at this. I made similar calculations of my own and the results show that even without the crit nerf, we'd be at a considerably worse position compared to the other classes than we used to be. Yeah, we agree that we need to be buffed (or unnerfed), but I don't think you realize exactly how bad it is. I've learned to PVP from your streams and I know how good you are and I'm sure you can kick *** even now. Deception/infiltration is the spec that is most similar to ours in PVP and didn't you say that we'd never be able to do our job better than them? And their spec is easier to learn too. Don't tell me you think if we get a proper buff we'd be better than them. Afaik you only play PVP and I don't think you realize exactly how bad is our situation in PVE. I know that most of the people that main this class are PVPers but the ones that play it in PVE love it just as much. The class has a cult following and we want to see it perform both in PVP and PVE. We are all in the same boat here. And you, Snave, are one of the most influential people that represent us. That's why we need you to realize just exactly how much we need to be improved right now.

I think you can roll with it if you play PVP. But the advantages that we have in PVP are mostly useless in PVE, so that's a whole different thing. There is no viable reason to prefer scoundrel dps in PVE now over any other class.

BW, you seem to worry too much about companions and too little about dps class balance. You should fix that before the people, whose classes got killed get fed up and leave the game. That's the real elephant in the room!

Well there's 1 thing that we can all agree on and it's that right now our dps needs to be improved a lot. The class has too many shortcomings which were already mentioned. Bad aoe, high difficulty, positional requirement, 4 meters requirement. This used to be compensated by a really high single target dps and I was fine with that.

I agree. Pre 3.0 all classes had crappy AoE so our AoE weakness didn't affect us so bad. We also had the flyby which was still useful back then. With 3.0 I felt we got less competitive compared to the other classes, but it wasn't that bad because the spec also became easier (due to the removal of several abilities to prevent ability bloat). So that balanced it a bit, altho I would prefer a harder spec with a higher dps potential any day. On a side note, could someone clarify the class lead thing for me? I don't spend much time on forums and am not very familiar with this. What I know is that Snave is or was our class representative and had some input with the devs about it.

1) Right now there's no other class with lower parses on Parsely. Not even the poor sages. 2) We didn't get more survivability with 4.0. We didn't need to. Even if we did, it wouldn't mean that we should get our damage nerfed. 3) It's bad enough that there are no new ops to do... Nobody should be forced to abandon their main. If I have to do that (that seems to be the case right now) I'd rather move to another game.

/signed Lightening sorcs/TK sages also took a huge ninja nerf (-20% crit damage to the baseline skills) and they were already nerfed to hell even before that. Before 4.0 was released the dps balance was in the best state it had ever been. The patch notes for 4.0 said that the only dps changes for all classes would be a slight passive dps increase in the range of a few percent. If that was indeed the case, then the classes would still be well balanced, like before the expansion. Instead we see inexplicable ninja nerfs that made the dps balance the worst it's been in years. It's like all the hard balancing work that was done in the last year was thrown out for no obvious reason. My main (Scrapper Scoundrel) feels almost useless right now. TBH I'd be happy if BW just removes all the ninja nerfs that came with the expansion but were not mentioned in the patch notes. While I don't think that would fix everything, it would be a great start and would undo most of the damage that KOTFE did to balance for no apparent reason.

You are right. I didn't think to highlight this when I wrote the thread because I mainly had ops in mind but I've noticed these things and they are true.

By ninja nerf I mean a nerf that was not mentioned in the patch notes! I noticed that the level 56 passive Underdog now grants only 10% crit damage to the baseline skills from the rotation (down from 30%!). At first I thought: they must have done this to all the similar passives to compensate for the increased crit chance post 4.0. I checked my TK sage and it was the same: Reverberation (level 52 passive) also grants 10% crit damage, down from 30! And THEN I checked my Tactics vanguard, which has been one of the flavor of the month classes for a long time. Their passive (Havoc Training, level 48) STILL grants 30% crit dmg!!! I haven't checked all specs but apparently some have had their 30% crit dmg passive nerfed to 10%, while others haven't (sharpshooter slinger too for example). Btw I'm sorry for not including the imperial names but I don't know most of them. What does this mean for these specs? Scrappers used to have good single target dps that was supposed to compensate for the other disadvantages. Scrapper used to be in the top 2 of the burst dps specs on Parsely, now it's at the bottom, together with TK sage. TK was already nerfed to hell, nobody considered it OP, it already had low damage, now it's even lower compared to other specs. 6 feet under... Tactics was also in the top 2 burst dps specs, considered FOTM and OP by many... now even more so. Basically the spec that most people would expect to get nerfed, did NOT get nerfed, while 2 of the specs that nobody expected to be nerfed (scrapper and TK) got a ninja nerf that was NOT in the patchnotes... I really can't believe this! The sad bottomline for scrappers is this: - Our AOE is still pitiful - The spec is still hard, with a positional requirement and everything - Scoundrels/Operatives are still the least used dps class in the game - But hey, now our single target dps is ALSO PITIFUL! ... ... Did it sink it yet? Does this make sense to anybody? It certainly doesn't make any sense to me... Were they planning to nerf the passives on all specs and just stopped doing it midway, when only a few of the specs were nerfed?? This needs to be adressed and FAST. The issues here raise real concerns not just for my main class but for dps balance in general. The BW teams have to shed some light on this. It would be terrible if they make us wait for the next balance changes to say what's being done about this. Tbh what I'm hoping to hear is something like "Mike pressed 1 instead of 3 when writing the code, so now you went from top to bottom, we will fix it next tuesday, sorry, kthxbye". I'm asking BW for an explanation. Was this change intended? If yes, why wasn't it in the patch notes? Why nerf a class that didn't need nerfing? What's the point of playing a difficult spec that has low dps on single target and aoe? And if this change was somehow unintentional (would have been a weird mistake but it would explain the existence of the change), then when can we expect the fix? Don't make us wait for the balance changes, give us something here pls BW.

<<<Closed>>>

<<<Closed>>> Darklight is an endgame raiding oriented guild, home to a lot of experienced players and multiple raid teams. Raid team 1's progression is currently 4/5 TOS HM and 4/5 RAV HM. The team has been together for about 2 months and we already have a stable group. Our ambition is to clear current HM content and future NiM content. Because of this, we are looking for players who have hit the skill ceiling of their class, or are close enough. Raid days are monday, wednesday and friday, starting at 6:30 GMT. We are looking for mature players who can do the following: - Attend raids regularly and on time - Get along with their fellow teammates - Push their class to the limit - Have the raid awareness level required to deal with complex mechanics, like the Coratanni fight. If you think you cover these requirements and you are interested in joining us, please contact Tril in-game or submit your application on our website http://www.darklight-redeclipse.enjin.com/recruitment P.S. This is a team recruitment message. Joining the team does not mean you have to join the guild as well (although it is recommended, of course).

Closed

I sent a ticket under "General/Other" and received a Srybutwecanthelpyou from a protocol droid.