Kudos to your mature response to the OP. And when all the crafters have quit the game, have fun trying to get nice gear/supplies off the GTN.

I second this request. Also, I would like HK's assassination skill to be added back in. I paid real money to unlock HK across all my alts after earning him on one of my toons. I'd really like his uniqueness back.

Oh, sure, the change is perfectly legal and in the bounds of the terms of service. I think we all understand that part. However, it's about ethics. What BW did is legal, but it sure isn't ethical. I, as a customer, do not have to continue to do business with a company that doesn't behave ethically. There are other games out there. My family and I are now looking at something else to play, and are all considering cancelling our subscriptions. We each have tons of alts, nearly all of which have HK unlocked via CC's. And while subbing gets you 500 CC's a month, we also tend to buy extra CC's with real cash on top of it all. One of us even bought Treek by buying more CC's with real money. This isn't funny. This isn't cute. This is unethical, and it has certainly detracted from our enjoyment of the game. We are all left with a very bitter taste in our mouths. I doubt we'll get a refund to our credit cards. I honestly couldn't care less to be refunded in CC's, as we have tons of those, much of which was already purchased with real cash. What on earth would I want to spend it on after this? Yet another gambling pack? Between the companion debacle and the unwarranted crafting overhaul, we're probably done. Oh, we'll grudgingly play to enjoy the story, but we'll be unsubbed, and as soon as our remaining CC's are spent, we're gone for good. It appears BW/EA have adopted the same revolving door attitude of Turbine/Warner Bros. There is zero reward for being loyal to any MMO company. They'll just stab their most loyal customers in the back and invest their money into the next batch of short-term customers rather than investing it back into their loyal base. I'm getting so sick of the whole MMO genre. It costs too much just to have your investment wiped out overnight by some pointy-haired boss who has no understanding of what the customers actually want. Back to single-player and co-op RPGs for me. And yes, subscribing to or investing tons of real cash into an MMO counts as investment, for which we investors expect a certain return in the form of entertainment. If I feel I'm no longer getting a good return on my investment, then it's time to move on. And no, you can't have my stuff.

Hi Lendul, I'm so happy I found this thread! I'm a Christian looking for a guild for me and another family member. I've added you to my friends list in the hopes I can catch you online. Please look for Countdown (scoundrel), Afterimage (sentinel), Healsonastick (sage), or Sneakaboo (shadow). Hope to catch you soon! Thanks!

Hello everyone! It's been some time since I've played. I recently resubscribed, after having been on hiatus since January. My primary reason for unsubscribing: The PvP. At first, I had fun in warzones as I leveled. I considered them a true popcorn experience whenever I needed a break--just as the devs intended. However, I never could seriously consider them a contender for the primary PVP endgame experience. It would be the equivalent of sticking 8 players in an elevator for 12 minutes and calling it PVP. No, I was looking forward to the more open experience that was advertised with Ilum. Sadly, instead of fixing it, they've closed it indefinitely. Bioware, please reopen Ilum. You need compelling endgame PvP. Why? Because its the only form of content that can keep us entertained long enough between content updates. If you want subscriptions, or if you want us to buy our weekly PvP passes (for F2P), then you need something worth paying for--worth the rental. And warzones aren't quite enough. I'm a LOTRO player. What has kept me a LOTRO player for so many years was the PvP. I know. Don't fall over. I never though I'd say that LOTRO has better PvP than SWTOR, but here I am. Before LOTRO's first expansion, PvP was so addicting. WIth Rohan out, we are waiting to find out if it's become addicting again, but until then, I though I'd write down what it was that kept me subbed to LOTRO once I had finished the PvE content. Before I begin, I will mention that many of these ideas implemented in LOTRO were borrowed from Dark Age of Camelot (which I've never played, but have heard many good things about). It was a watered down DAOC PvP experience we received from Turbine, but it's the heart of what made it addicting. LOTRO had a vast PvP zone, just like Ilum. It came with five keeps, and two faction-controlled safe zones. There are no queues to get into the zone. That means that you can indeed be outnumbered, and people do tend to log out when that happens. But it also made for some very interesting fights. Players could group up in raids sized up to 24 people. Soloing was also viable, however, if you enjoyed lying in wait at strategic locations. On busy servers, we sometimes had multiple raids on both factions converging on the same keep. It was a lagfest, but it was the most fun I've ever had playing a game. LOTRO had in-game voice chat. It wasn't the best, but it worked. I would say it's what helped the PvP players form a sense of community. It helped us coordinate with total strangers, to be sure. But it also helped us get to know each other. If one side flipped three keeps, a dungeon would open (similar to DAOC) called the Delving of Fror. Only the faction who owned the three+ keeps could enter, and could fight the NPC bosses for valuable drops to exchange for PvP gear (or advanced skills in the case of monster players). PvE gear was viable enough to enter the zone and fight. PvP gear was the equivalent of one of the PvE raid sets, although it was not the best raid set. Still, it was a viable option for people who didn't like PvE raids, or who didn't mind mixing and matching their armor. There was no such thing as "expertise". You could wear whatever you wanted to PvP. Granted, some armor could gimp you more than others, but new players weren't feeling entirely shut out, either. Think of it this way: PvP wasn't per se how you earned gear (though you could!). It was how you proved your build and tested your current gear from PvE. The primary treadmill wasn't PvP gear; it was ranks. There are 15 ranks, and the effort to rank up increases exponentially with each rank, much like leveling. With each rank, a new symbol is displayed next to the character's portrait. They can also display a title alongside their name with their rank. Ranks are earned by gaining renown/infamy. To do that, you kill other players. If you are in a group/raid, the renown/infamy earned is split among your members (though relatively increased to make it worth grouping, as opposed to zerging at players solo). Titles could also be earned (such as "Black Dog" or "Elf Slayer") with enough kills. Ranks and titles are a status symbol. Watching the renown/infamy bar fill up is addicting. You can see how long someone has been around. In other words, with gear as more of a side-show, players have incentive to continue playing long after they've obtained all the gear. PvP gear had rank requirements to buy each piece. Lower ranks could buy the boots, for example, but it took a higher rank to buy, say, the helm. There was also a very coveted rank 9 horse. Monster players got new cosmetic skins with each new rank, as well as new skills. Bioware, if you implement much of what DAOC and LOTRO had, you will have an addicting PvP endgame that will keep me and many others subscribed for years to come. The only drawback I see is population imbalance. Since Turbine keeps the PvE on only one faction, they can control how strong or weak the other faction is without affecting PvE in the class balance (not that they always do so very well, but the system is there). That means if monster players outnumber the other faction, they can simply make a tweak to make them weaker. In the case of SWTOR, we would definitely need faction population limits. AFK players and those who log out must be kicked from the zone. Since the Hero Engine has issues with too many players in one area, efforts to shard off the zone would help keep things running smoothly. Which is a shame, because sharding breaks up the community such that you aren't playing with all of them. Still, even with sharding, there will always be Imperials waiting for their turn to enter the zone, but hopefully they'll finally have some incentive to roll Republic.

Hey, I never said it was perfect. There are many aspects of LOTRO's F2P that drive me nuts--especially the P2W skills and goodies in the store. There are ups and downs to any F2P system. LOTRO sure does have its downs, and Turbine can be rather greedy at times. However, one of its ups is that it doesn't take away things on your character that you already earned if you unsub.

I honestly haven't seen any relevant postings on the dev tracker. I do, however, suspect that you are correct. Which would be a crying shame, because even other games like LOTRO don't restrict things on your character you've already unlocked.

First of all, I'd like to say that I'm a returning player who just recently resubbed. (I had unsubbed not long after game release). I am considering unsubbing again when this game goes F2P since I am an extremely casual player. In other words, I play very intermittently, and mostly during vacation times or a little here and there on weekends. I'm willing to spend Cartel Coins during vacations to unlock flashpoint/PvP passes and such, so the F2P option seems very viable to my sparse play time. However, I do have a major concern that I feel Bioware should address. What if I already have purple gear as a subbed member? Will I lose the ability to equip it when I go F2P? Do I have to buy it? In other words, is a subscription considered a rental (similar to how LOTRO lets you "rent" zones while subbed, and will restrict your access if your subscription lapses), or do I get ownership of what I've already earned while subbed? This same concern applies to things like death limitations, emergency fleet pass, sprint at level 1, etc. When we're subbing, is it considered a rental of such "perks"? Considering I paid $60 at full price to buy this game way back last year, I feel I should get ownership of basic things for my current characters that I already enjoy. Even LOTRO allows this. Once you subscribe, even if it's just for a month, LOTRO will allow you to keep all your unlocked storage space, virtue slots, etc., for your existing characters, even after you unsubscribe. So it's not like I'm asking for the world here. Just basic fair treatment for a customer who paid full price for the game at launch.

It probably is a typo. What concerns me more is (1) What if you have purple gear as a subbed player and switch to F2P? Will you then have to a gear license in order to use it? This train of logic applies to all the other goodies you might have unlocked as a subbed player, such as cargo hold space, etc. (2) What if as an F2P player you bought an Ops or Flashpoint pass for a week and got your purple gear/mods. Will you have to pay yet again just to equip the gear you won? Seems like you get charged twice. (3) Is the authorization good for all purple gear you might ever obtain, or do you have to buy the license for each and every single piece of purple gear? (4) If you buy a gear license, does it apply only to one character, or to all characters on your account? (Same goes with any other privileges you might buy from the shop).

Wow, glad I never used a game time card!

All right. Let me spell it out for all of you what is off about the class stories. 1) The goals of each class story change with every chapter. I never know what my character's true story goal/motivation is, because it is always shifting. Note: This does not happen in novels or books. It also doesn't happen in Bioware's hit RPGs (such as KOTOR). 2) The villains likewise change or rotate. Sometimes they just magically go away for a while, to suddenly reappear at random. Note: This does not happen in novels or books. It also doesn't happen in Bioware's hit RPGs (such as KOTOR). 3) Certain turning points present in every novel/movie are missing. Please reference Campbell, Vogler, or even Blake Snyder's "Save the Cat!" book. (See below for a breakdown of KOTOR to the Hero's Journey.) 4) There is no obvious theme. The theme is the essentially the lesson the protagonist has to learn to finally overcome the big obstacle in his way (the villain). Even KOTOR had a theme. It was redemption. 5) Because there is no theme, by necessity important plot points from #3 are missing and, even if they weren't, they'd be sorely lacking in any depth. The "Dark Night of the Soul" from the Hero's Journey, for example, not only deals with the protagonist suffering a defeat, but in him finally learning the theme. Before that point, the protagonist has been avoiding learning the theme at all costs. Now he is forced to learn it to overcome the villain in the final fight. --- I wouldn't normally bother dissecting a video game's story like this, if it weren't for Bioware promising us good stories within our PvE. And Bioware is well aware of how to craft a good story. Quite frankly, I am surprised that the very company that produced KOTOR produced these attention-deficit string of class quests. A string of quests does not equal a story. As a side note, I'm not saying the original trilogy was the best story ever told. The last one in the series proved that they ran out of ideas (teddy bears with spears, rehashing the death star, etc.). However, the first two had actual plots, despite the plot holes. The prequels simply did not. There's no getting around it. I'm sorry if you like the prequels, but they're not even remotely well-told stories. Much like the class stories in this game. And no, I didn't see the original trilogy in the theaters in the 70's. I am in my late 20s. I'm not even that hard-core of a Star Wars fan. At all. To prove my point, here is a breakdown of KOTOR 1 to the Hero's Journey, borrowing from Blake Snyder's "Save the Cat!" format here and there. If you can take your preferred class story and break it down into these points, then congratulations, Bioware bothered for your class's story.

Let me see.... 1) The goals of each class story change with every chapter. I never know what my character's true story goal/motivation is, because it is always shifting. 2) The villains likewise change or rotate. Sometimes they just magically go away for a while, to suddenly reappear at random. 3) Certain turning points present in every novel/movie are missing. Please reference Campbell, Vogler, or even Blake Snyder's "Save the Cat!" book. If you can cleanly and unarguably break down your preferred class story down into the Hero's Journey plot structure, then I'll eat my words. Even KOTOR can be broken down into the Hero's Journey. If you really want, I'd be glad to do so for you, albeit within spoiler tags. 4) There is no obvious theme. The theme is the essentially the lesson the protagonist has to learn to finally overcome the big obstacle in his way (the villain). Even KOTOR had a theme. It was redemption. 5) Because there is no theme, by necessity important plot points from #3 are missing and, even if they weren't, they'd be sorely lacking in any depth. The "Dark Night of the Soul" from the Hero's Journey, for example, not only deals with the protagonist suffering a defeat, but in him finally learning the theme. Before that point, the protagonist has been avoiding learning the theme at all costs. Now he is forced to learn it to overcome the villain in the final fight.

Let me just start by saying that I really, really wanted to like this game. For once, I felt a game developer realized that I didn't want leveling to be a grind, but an exciting adventure. Alas, this is not that game developer. I feel as though all the class stories are geared toward the generation that grew up with the Star Wars prequels and suffered from George Lucas's attention-deficit writing--as opposed to those who grew up with the original trilogy and it's sharply-focused plot lines. I am very shocked to see this coming from the same developer of KOTOR. The irony is, I only played KOTOR while waiting for this game to come out, because people on this forum were raving about it. KOTOR had all the story mechanics of a novel/movie. Alas, these basic mechanics are missing from every class story I have tried thus far in SWTOR. Yes, that includes the Imperial Agent. While the agent is more interesting overall, it still suffers from goals/villains that change with each chapter--as does every other class in this game. Bottom line, instead of getting story, we got voiceovers. Am I the only one who feels this way? And yes, you prequel-lovers can refrain from answering and enjoy your game. I'm glad you enjoy it! It's just not my cup of tea. Alas, it was a very expensive cup of tea to buy at $60. In fact, I think they sold me coffee instead of the advertised tea.

OP, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who feels the story-telling in this game is sub-par. It pales in comparison to KOTOR. It's like this game's story was geared toward the generation that grew up with the Star Wars prequels and suffered from George Lucas's attention-deficit writing--as opposed to the rest of us grown-ups who grew up with the original trilogy and it's sharply-focused plot lines. Between the lack of attention-gripping story and the disaster that is PvP, I already unsubbed a few days ago. It's too bad, too, because I had really, really wanted to like this game.

Well, believe me, OP, I really really wanted to like this game. I mean, an MMO with STORY! I was so psyched that leveling might become fun rather than a grind. I was happy that I could supplement my leveling XP with warzones, since PvP in an MMO is something I love. I also thought the idea of Ilum as an open world PvP objective would be a blast. Sadly, this game has failed me on all counts. Instead of story, I got voiceovers. Yes, I'm sure many of you are happy with class stories as-is. I personally feel they are mediocre at best, and I've tried several already. The lack of story-telling mechanics is glaring. The plots simply are not cohesive; they border on attention-deficit. With each chapter, the story goal changes, as does the villain. There is no theme (e.g., a lesson the character must learn to overcome his weakness and defeat the villain/accomplish his goal). Various turning points present in all novels/movies are missing. Sure, there are moments with some good turning points in the story here and there, but for the most part, I'm not exactly riveted in suspense. Instead of chomping at the bit to see what happens next, I find myself feeling like it's a chore to do any of my characters' class stories. Likewise, the flashpoints don't have much story. They're just there, with virtually no connection between them. If they had daisy-chained them into a story arc, I would have been much happier. The world story arcs also suffer from the above lack of story mechanics. At first, I had wanted to enjoy the voiceovers. Now I find myself skipping through them, because what the NPCs have to say is meaningless. I would rather have had text to read and a well-written story, than full voiceovers with next to no real story. Despite all the issues with PvP, I would have stayed subbed and waited for the PvP to become at least bearable just for the sake of experiencing the story. With no story, I have no reason to stay. Needless to say, I am very shocked that this is the same company that produced KOTOR 1. That game had all the story-telling mechanics present in movies and novels. No, I wasn't expecting a huge, mind-blowing "gotcha" moment like KOTOR 1 had, but I did expect basic story-telling mechanics to be in place, especially for a game that advertised there were tons of novels worth of story in the game. Alas, it seems BioWare has really lost its touch. And to add insult to injury, when I posted a thread about these very same issues in General Discussion to explain why I was leaving, a BioWare moderator closed my thread because my original post wasn't "constructive" enough in its criticism. Tell me, what about the above isn't constructive? I listed these exact same points in that thread. I said where they went wrong. I didn't say "this game sucks I'm leaving." I said "I'm leaving for these reasons, and here's where it went wrong." I'd have put in suggestions as to how to fix it, but story-wise there's no fixing this. They spent too much on voiceovers. They're not going to redo all the class stories to tighten the plot. It's too late. So instead of taking my constructive criticism (albeit very negative) and at least learning from it for the future, BioWare is going to shut such posts down. Even Turbine doesn't shut down threads with negative criticism! I'm sure plenty of people like the "story" in this game, but I'm afraid it's not my cup of tea. However, for those of you who are having fun, I'm glad you are, and I hope you have fun in this game for a long time to come.