Valceanu
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Posts posted by Valceanu
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Personally i dont particularly like LFG systems. Some may not think so but it does detract from the sense of community. However, i could learn to accept an on-server system...but for the love of god keep away from those inter-server ones...thats just asinine.
As a side note...i play on Rogue Moon (EU) and population ranges from standard to heavy depending on what time of day it is. Ive yet to "spam chat with LFG for a heroic for 40-50min" like the OP puts it. Making a group rarely takes more then 10-15 minutes... so maybe youre not playing on a server that has a high enough population...try one. Actually i think id prefer server merges then LFG anyways...
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WoW's community was trash well before those features were added. It wasn't the features that screwed up the "community". It was the community that did it.
Dual Spec has nothing to do with lazy, nor really does dungeon finder. Convenience, sure. But not laziness or mental challenges.
That game, and this one, are both faceroll easy to play, and neither of them really contain any challenges.
I was there from vanilla...from the day it launched in fact. And yes these features ruined the community...not only gameplay wise...but the feeling of community itself. Before dungeon finder you had to talk to people...find out if they are ready and/or attuned for a certain objective and such...then talk gear (and then came gearscore *gasp*) etc etc.
Same with dual spec...the fact that you gave that to people made them less interested to go outside their own little circle and look for someone to fill another role...yeah they could switch before but since it came at a cost at least it encouraged you to try something else.
People like to disguise laziness as convenience but it is what it is... The fact that they are not challenging enough is the devs own fault since they listen to what the whiny "i cant beat this encounter so nerf it" crowd says.
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Honestly...i think that there are some things that need improving like the UI, responsiveness of combat and such. None of the issues are game-braking for me so im patient enough to wait for them to get improved...and im sure they will.
Someone said in an earlier post, and this is a very rough quote "its like BW played the Burning Crusade and developed SWTOR disregarding what came after"...personally id be happy if he was right. TBC was the best period in WOW for me at least. The game was hard enough to keep things interesting and easy enough for people to get into it fast...that was WOW's peak IMHO. Everything from there was just catering to lazy and/or mentally challenged people... dungeon finder, dual spec among others are things i would prefer to not see in TOR. They made a mess of MMO communities over the years...
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No, BioWares failure on putting too much emphasise onto something a lot of players aren't interested in.
The class stories are great but the rest is just the same as in every MMO, "go kill x because they're bad", except that's drawn out to over a minute of dialogue.
Same goes for the choices you have in most quests as well, I'm not following the dialogue so I'm just pressing a random number, more wasted time and money.
PROOF please. Like i said...none of the players ive played with to date have felt the need to skip the cutscenes...in fact it generates more immersion then any other MMO. So if youre gonna use words like majority then back it up with numbers. Otherwise just say "ive heard some players skip the cutscenes. do you think that....?" etc etc etc
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No, it's not
Only the Class Quests should've been Voice Acted; the rest is skipped by most players anyway
Nobody ive played with yet has skipped the cutscenes...so unless you can provide some statistical analysis im gonna call ********. And since youve cancelled your subscription...why are you even here anymore?
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In short. YES they are. I listen to every line of it at least the first time around. Its part of playing an RPG. People have gotten so use to playing bland MMOs that they have forgotten that the RPGs are their roots. BW has not forgotten this and has created a true MMORPG instead of just another MMO... and this goes for many other RPG features in the game from companions to choices etc. Well done in my opinion.
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I have bad news for you. SWToR is being sold as an MMO and in the close future you will see this stuff in the game. So if you hate "basic" mmo tools, I suggest you playe as much as posible out of this game before it comes and then quit. It is fun plaing a game you hate.
Dual-spec has nothing to be lazy. So many of you fanboys use the word "lazy" like it is a holy word against everything. Why dont you start walking to school or work every day? Or stop shopping food or fast food? Why not make your own food? Why even have a computer or a phone? You are just a lazy basterd if you have a car or a phone. Why not walk to your friends of family to talk to them?
It is not about being lazy, it is about redusing stuff that makes thing harder and more of of a hassle then it should be.
This is like beating the dead horse. Dual-spec will come soner or later, to bad it did not come with the release. When dual-sepc came in vanilla-wow, I was alla gainst it. I was as dead against it as you are. With the exact same "facts" against it then as people has today.
But I dont want to play Vanilla WoW again. I dont want to wait for an houre to get a group for flashpoit.
Old is not always better.
I have no doubt that at least some of these features will come. There are way too many crybabies on the interwebz. The later the better i say. And i never said i hated mmos...only certain aspects of SOME mmos. There was no dual spec before blizzard put it in wow. I played that game for years and they turned it into "eazymode" that a 6yr old could complete. After i tryed out WotLK i couldnt stand it anymore and quit.
Instead of designing the game to encourage your players to work and use their heads to get something done you give them the tools to circumvent that and obtain instant gratification...thats wrong any way you slice it and it creates a spoiled community as has been oh so adequately demonstrated by WOW over the years.
And im sorry you are having trouble finding groups in TOR. Im not...there are plenty of healers and tanks around (who dont seem to have your trouble with quests). You might want to consider that the problem is at your end.
Old is not always better i agree. And while i like to see evolution i hate seeing involution and this is a perfect example of the latter.
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You have good games and good things not being successfull because of many things.
Rift is a good game, done quite a few unique things and is working quite nice. But it is not sticking out especially. It has a Indi game budget compered to SWToR and the the compersel done for the game can hardly be compered to SWToRs.
The reason why Rift is not doing as good as SWToR is not because Rift is a bad game. It is because of a lot of other things. If you ever played Rift you would know this.
The fact that you like certain features in RIFT doesnt make them universally appreciated. You like them...good for you. I hate LFD and that sort of crap. I hate dual speccing. I generally hate any feature that promotes laziness and self-entitlement and allows for instant gratification. Personally im happy that TOR has gone closer to its RPG roots rather then being a bland MMO...the RPG part is the one that makes or brakes a game for me. And TOR has done that quite well. Some MMO aspects need to be improved upon like the delay for skills, the UI and such...but even the devs have said in there latest released info that they dont feel dual speccing is needed in TOR, at least not at the moment.
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There is a reason this game is doing a lot better than Rift.. I doubt it is because Rift is so awsome..
Although i agree with you id suggest not counting your chickens before theyre hatched as the saying goes. Its way too early to judge how successful TOR is...
EDIT: although RIFT didnt do so well way before TOR came around so the point stands. If the game was so awesome more people would be playing it imho.
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I have to agree. Rift have manage to make good use of MMO tools. Would like to see this game do better. Not worse.
Again...matter of opinion. Do not present it as fact... even if i dont agree at least i have the decency not to claim that im right beyond a shadow of a doubt.
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What this person said.
Rift had a lot of great and well polished MMO mechanics that Swtor simply lacks.
Every point in the post above is an essential mmo tool, these are expected in a 2011/2012 mmo.
It's no longer rocket science. The trial and error has been done to death by older mmos.
Theres nothing to be said about this. Its just your opinion and some of us dont agree. If you like RIFT, WOW or any other MMO so much go back to playing that...why hang around here and try to change this game into another??
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This topic has been discussed to death already. Also having a poll on the forums is more or less pointless since most of the nay-sayers hang around these parts...an in-game poll...now that would be miles more relevant. Anyway i have explained my view of this topic at length in the other thread and wont repeat myself. Suffice it to say that i have voted NO because i do not endorse features that promote laziness and self-entitlement.
I will reiterate that the devs themselves have said that they dont feel that dual speccing is needed in the game currently and since they have the data to base such claims on ill go with what they are saying. The point of re-speccing in this game is to be used as a fail-safe or occasional switch not to go willy-nilly with the specs like some people seem to want which should be obvious based on the way its implemented.
If they do implement such a feature in the future i hope it has a severe time restriction like the "fleet teleporter" for instance even if there is no price attached. That would get rid of the whole "i need to go back to fleet and respec and then return to the raid" crap whilst still giving spec choice the importance it deserves.
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You can't do heroic 4's with your companion. Not everyone can do heroic 2's with their companions, because it depends on what roles you and your companion play, and what order you get your companions in (knights, for example, dont get their healer till the late 30s, early 40s). You also cannot use companions in warzones or operations, and good luck having a companion tank or heal a level 50 flashpoint, or a hard mode flashpoint.
yes, dual spec makes soloing easier, but that's not it's primary function.
In case you havent figured it out yet, this is a MULTIPLAYER game. This means that most of the content is DESIGNED to be played by GROUPS. There is a very specific group makeup required for most content. You need X amount of healers, Y amount of Tanx, and Z amount of dps. Yes, while doing your Heroic 2 quests solo, you can use your companion...at level 50, that doesnt really work anymore (for most content)
It's not about character flexibility as much as it is about GROUP flexibility. Giving everyone multiple options makes it much easier to put together groups that have a chance of success.
Maybe you didnt get the point...i am well aware of what you are saying. All i was pointing out is that because of the companion system people have been more inclined to roll tanks/healers then in other games therefor making grouping very easy. Ive yet to experience difficulty finding people to fill any group role.
If you REALLY want to push the RP factor, go and re-read the advanced class description/story/gameplay blurbs at the character creation screen. ALL mercenaries know how to blow stuff up, and ALL of them know the basics of first aid. It's also stated that bounty hunters change their tactics depending on their prey.
The key word here is BASIC healing/damage. Like you said yourself. They are not specialists in both hence the need to specialize yourself.
I mostly agree with this. Bioware has done a good job of mixing in the survivability/mobility/utility talents in the primary talent trees, and there isnt a lot of variation (dont get me wrong, there are still 2-3 variations per spec, which, in and of itself is 24 variations people could want to use to maximize dps/healing/mobility or survivability). The thing is, giving them choices (and limiting those choice a bit, as in...you can't respec once the match starts) isnt going to hurt anyone, and has the potential to make the game more fun for more people.
Because catering to min/maxers has worked out so well for other games... seriously though... id rather have people use their heads to circumvent the drawbacks of their choice (of spec in this case) then give them the easy way out. In the long run it improves overall player performance.
You obviously dont understand the concept of 'suspension of disbelief". Don't compare game concepts to medical professions. Bioware INTENDED us to be able to change specs. The option is already in the game. All people are asking for is a way to make it less of a time waste to do so. Having my group sit on Belsavis, while i ride back to the spaceport, back to my ship, to the fleet, respec, re-do my hotbars, BACK to my ship, BACK to belsavis, and BACK to where the group is...is retarded, and serves no purpose but to aggravate people and waste time.
While the comparison might be a bit of an exaggeration its no less true. I even classified them in spec, AC and base class for clarity. It illustrates the point perfectly... and its not that i dont understand the concept, its that i prefer things to be believable in the first place even at the cost of "convenience".
Not exactly true. If you're recruiting a dps, you dont really care about how good they are at healing, because...if you needed healers, you'd be recruiting healers. It IS nice to have a little flexibility, in case someone can't make it, but in your example, it's not Player B's responsibility to make sure the raid has a healer. He's been recruited for dps. period. You dont recruit one player to play 2 roles, unless the encounter design is wonky...in which case, it's the fault of the encounter designers, not dual spec.
This is only true for PUGs which are in fact the lowest form of grouping. What i said is oriented more towards guild situations and such which is where game design should be concentrated in my opinion.
You have this backwards. The game designers already have a template that you need to meet in order for you to be successful. You already need X amount of tanks, Y amount of heals per second (which usually translates into # of healers), and Z amount of dps. This design philosophy is ALREADY in the game. The only thing dual spec does is give MORE groups the ability to meet these requirements. The raid doesnt magically do double dps because everyone has a dual spec. While you can argue that they could POTENTIALLY do more dps now that they have the ability to change specs a bit depending on the fight...They can ALREADY do that...it just requires everyone going back to the fleet to do so. All dual spec does is let them do it more efficiently.
Once again, it's not giving us anything we can't already do, it's just making it so we waste less time doing it. This is the same reason that people drive to work instead of walking...it's not dumbing it down, it's making it more efficient.
But thats exactly the point. Want that extra dps...you have to sacrifice for it (time and credits in this case). Otherwise learn to use your head and beat the encounter in a less then ideal situation (which is possible unless group composition is totally messed up in the first place). Like i said before...this kind of thing leads to the betterment of the community as a whole in terms of skill and strategic thinking.
And yes, the devs did implement a way for you to respec...but the way its implemented makes it clear that they want your choice to matter and use this feature as a fail-safe rather then go willy-nilly with the specs. Otherwise it would have been at a significantly lower cost.
You're right, nobody NEEDS dual spec. But at the same time, they have the option to put in a feature that hurts NO ONE (you can still solo with your companions, solo your group quests, and do your low level flashpoints with your companions the same way you are now), and gives everyone else the ability to form groups more quickly, which means they spend LESS time sitting around doing nothing. Doing nothing is not fun.
Like i said in the first paragraph i think...this isnt about soloing or flashpoints at all... im sorry if i wasnt clear enough in my original post. Until there is statistical proof that there are not enough tanks/healers to easily support groups i dont think BW will implement it. There doesnt seem to be a lack of those roles so far. If it will be the case down the road im sure they will add the feature. If some people are having trouble grouping as it is, maybe the problem is at their end...they should at least consider that possibility.
Dual spec doesnt break the game, dumb it down, or make players stronger in and of itself. All it does is streamline the respec system that is in the game, so that less time is wasted.
I mentioned this above...respecing has a different role here...its not in the game to allow you to go willy-nilly with the specs. The devs have stated as much themselves.
Just on a side note, having people waste less time is the same reason we have sprint and speeders in the game...does anyon have any arguments on how THEY ruin the game?
Is there really a comparison to be made here. IRL we have cars and we can run...the proffesion thing is a bit trickier me thinks.
Answers in red. Also...this is in no way meant to convince you of anything nor was my original post. I can respect that you have your views and i have mine and we can agree to disagree. Im just giving arguments backing up my own views because i hate how some people think that they hold the truth and anyone with a different opinion is misguided or stupid ... not saying you are one of them.
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False - very true on my server at least.
False - arguments please. At least i brought some to back up my view of things. Otherwise you just make yourself look foolish. So please explain why it is IMPOSSIBLE to be successful without dual speccing...
False - actually this is 90% true...there is very little variation within builds as was in fact intended (and stated) by the devs.
Feel free to speak again when you rejoin us in reality.
Feel free to speak again when you learn the basic concepts of logic... not to mention learn better manners.
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someone could see it as "the ones that are against dual speec are the simpleminded ones that fear to have to learn two things at the same time, like walking and munching bubble gum"...
Too bad that, as has been seen time and again, most people have trouble mastering more then 1 role and end up being average in them...
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Simple...
PvE Healer
PvP Anything but Healer
Want to do my Daily Warfront Missions... Cr100,000-200,000/Day
So the game doesnt really NEED dual speccing...its just that you WANT it. Sense of entitlement much??
Since my previous post which admittedly was long (reading comprehension among the internet crowd seems at an all time low) was more or less ignored ill try to brake this down into the main points of why people think dual speccs are neccesary:
1. Easier to get groups ... partly true but mostly a non-issue in this specific game. Thanks to the companion system there are plenty of tanks/healers around.
2. More character flexibility ... while true it is not needed to be successful at the game. Also it comes into direct conflict with the "choice should matter" mantra that the other side is advocating and the RP aspect of the game (yes its not just an MMO...its an mmoRPG)
3. PvP vs PvE spec ... another non-issue ... most specs are viable for both. And honestly the differences are negligible. Those who are dedicated PvPers can use that same spec for PvE and vice versa. (this is meant for PvE healer vs PvP healer and such...for the issue of wanting different roles see the point above)
What else is there...hmm...well point them out and ill address them.
I dont know why people find it so hard to understand that some of us want some realism in our game even though it is a sci-fi fantasy world...basic logic should not be circumvented. Ive given this example before, you cant "respec" from being a heart surgeon to being a brain surgeon on the fly. It takes years to re-specialize, go through residency again and so on even though they both belong to the surgery "advanced class" from the doctor "class". Any form of re-speccing should reflect these basic realities...at least the current one asks you to make a basic sacrifice of time + money to get it done.
Also...to those saying "if you dont like it just dont use it, simple as that"...i call ********. It would affect even those that dont want to use it...heres a basic example: say we have player A (scoudrel DPS spec not using dual spec) and player B (scoundrel DPS spec with healing off-spec). Lets also assume that the players are of equal skill and have equivalent gear. Most raid leaders would invite B more often then not because of the extra spec simply because if/when the situation requires it that player could switch on the fly.
Finally...in my personal opinion, they dumb down the game. Some might not agree but let me explain why i have this opinion. Content is designed with a general composition in mind. If you give players the opportunity to have 100% ideal group composition before each boss encounter they will take it regardless what the composition was when they started the raid...if this is true for each individual fight then each fight becomes easier since you have ideal group composition for each making the raid as a whole easier. Having a set composition (the one you entered the raid with) may give you better odds against some bosses but worse ones against others which means you have to adapt and evolve (another night you might have different composition and have to adjust again)...that is a good thing IMHO. Some people might argue that hard-core raiders would send their teammates out to re-spec anyways but to that the only thing i have to say is that...well...if they have to do that they are not really hard-core raiders in the first place.
In the end...its not so much people NEEDING dual-spec as much as people WANTING it...well, some people at least.
...sorry...i started this not wanting it to turn into another wall of text but i think some things just need to be said...kudos to anyone patient enough to read through it.
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I just cant understand why people insist in disguising laziness into "convenience"...cause this is the term i hear use most often in favor of dual speccing...its convenient. Would be simpler if people just admitted to being lazy and not wanting to work for their treats...but hey, at least theyd be honest.
So far i havent seen a NEED for dual spec. Its totally viable to level as a tank/healer in this game thanks to companions...and i know this for a fact since my brother is leveling at the same pace i am and he is running a tank spec. There is no lack of tanks/healers, at least on my server...if there is one on yours then roll one yourself. So far i havent had trouble finding people to fill any of the 3 roles. In fact, ive seen tanks/healers looking for dps guys for heroics, flashpoints and such which is amazing considering whats going on in other games.
Being able to switch specs on the fly, having access to multiple roles is just a crutch people use to increase their overall usefulness and likelihood of being invited to a raid and such. How is that fair to sentinels/marauders and gunslingers/snipers??...they can only fill one roll, dps...it doesnt really help them that they can dps in different ways, its still dps. Even though i roll a scoundrel myself, i can see how dual speccing would be unfair for them.
As for the RP aspect...ive seen people argue that they RP an AC not a spec. This is false...we RP a character...one that specializes, during the course of his career, in being a "meatshield", a "nurse" or a "machine gun specialist" (the 3 roles). Its also highly unrealistic...and yes even in a sci-fi fantasy world i expect some basic realism and logic. For instance, you cant change from being a heart surgeon to being a brain surgeon on the fly even though they are in the same "AC" of surgery which in turn belongs to the "class" of doctors. It takes literally years to re-specialize in another branch of surgery...the game should reflect that.
Anyway, bottom line is that nothing so far has pointed to dual spec being NEEDED. The fact that some people WANT it is another matter entirely. Just because other games have spoiled you with such, doesnt mean it has to be in this game too just for the sake of your "convenience"...
Thats all for now since im at the office and need to get back to work...have a great day everyone!
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Im so sick of these tired threads. Give it a reast already. If the game plays just fine without dual specs then it doesnt NEED it. That YOU want it, is a whole other issue. I see the same people starting these threads or posting in them. Give it a rest already. I can appreciate that you feel strongly about the issue but so do those that are against dual speccing.
As it stands right now there is no lack of tanks or healers. The companion system made them easy to lvl and the players have responded. There are more tanks/healers in this game (and at an early stage) then there were in many other MMOs(at least on my server).
There is no arena-type PvP in this game...and as far as ive seen a dedicated PvP spec is not really NEEDED to do competitive level PvP...there are literally only a handfull of talents that you would choose diferently from your PvE spec and the difference is really not that big. Those who are dedicated PvP-ers will choose them anyway. You dont NEED the exact optimum spec for every situation.
Also, you dont NEED to be able to fill multiple roles. The fact that you WANT to have that feature doesnt make it a necessity. So far i havent experienced problems with grouping. Actually ive seen tanks/healers looking for DPSers for groups...which seldom happened in other games...just goes to show you there are in fact enough people filling those roles.
Anyway...i dont know when/if this feature will come...its up to the devs...but saying its NEEDED is a gross overstatement. Theres a big difference between WANT and NEED...
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So the "I NEED" threads have started again. Well, no surprise there...people like their hand-holding. Honestly leveling as a healer or tank is cake in this game. Ive already seen more tanks and healers in this game then any other and at this early stage in the game mind you. Why people keep saying there is a lack of these classes is beyond me. All this "remember what you wrote when you cant find a tank/healer for your operation" crap is...well...its just that, crap.
I was just talking to my brother the other day (he plays Jedi Shadow tank - kinetic combat) and saying how all i see in general chat is "healer LFG for x falshpoint" or "tank LFG for y heroic" . Hell, its the healers and tanks looking to group with the DPS guys and not the other way around...i mean its astounding. The companion system has really made these roles more the viable to lvl... and the players have responded...at least thats what it looks like on my server.
What some of you call "convenience" i call "laziness" and "inability to commit". Also...it seems to me that some MMORPG players completely want to take the RPG part out of the equation. Ive player a plethora of RPG's over the years including MMORPG's and i dont remember them allowing you to change specs on the fly (or at all in the case of SPRPG's) before WOW (with its infamous dual spec system). People still managed to play all those games just fine. In fact, i feel TOR has gone closer to its RPG roots then any other MMO on the market to date...and as far as im concerned thats a good thing.
There have been other reasons given against this particular feature so im not gonna go over them again...for me though...this is the most important one. This might not be the most popular opinion but in the end, im allowed my opinion just like everyone else.
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Those numbers are flawed. Sucker punch will always do more than quick shot. About 20% more.
20% with the flying fist proc...which is only 50% of the time. Means that 50% of the time it does the same dmg at lower range and you sacrifice a upper hand stack which would buff dmg on your other attacks too... at least thats the way i understand it from the talents is all. Still...like i said im just lvl 10 so i guess ill just try it out for myself as i level. Just thought someone might have some numbers for me.
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Eh...maybe?
Thing is, Sucker Punch + Flying Fists also gives a stun on normal mobs, plus on a Bleeding Target, you get your Upper Hand right back. Since you're going to be in melee range anyway to use blaster whip and back blast, Flying Fists is just a natural fit into the rotation.
The only benefit I see to Quick Shot is that it gives you a bit more range to work with. You will be losing damage for not using Sucker Punch with it's related talents.
By the way, you will start having issues with Energy. Pugnacity helps it out a lot, but you'll still find yourself running low when you try to put out a lot of DPS at once.
Dont you get it back just 50% of the time?? ... also how many seconds is that stun?
And yes you are right...im aware of the slight differences between them...just wondering if its possible.
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So ive only played a smuggler up to lvl 10 and im thinking of choosing scoundrel as my AC. Question is if "sucker punch" is a must have for any scrapper spec... or rather, can you do the same relative amount of DPS without specing into it by using quick shot in your rotation instead? ...
Sucker Punch
Instant
Exploits Upper Hand to sucker punch the target for
1125 - 1254
kinetic damage. Requires and consumes Upper Hand.
Quick Shot
Instant
Range: 1m
Blasts a target for
1032 - 1262
weapon damage. Fires both blasters if dual wielding.
Got those from the darth hater website and it seems to me that they have around the same damage with and edge for punch with flying fists procs (50% of the time). Quick shot does have a longer range however which is situational ill give you that.
Energy costs are pretty close (not really an issue with Pugnacity) the only difference is that sucker punch requires upper hand which it consumes unless you get a fists proc with vital shot active...which would be 50% chance if you spec into it. I guess im asking if the DPS would be relatively the same if you just use quick shot and keep 2 x Upper hand 100% of the time since quick shot doesnt have that 50% chance of consuming it.
I guess this also warrants an explanation. The question stems from my strong dislike of the "sucker punch" ability from a flavor perspective...dont ask me why exactly...its just one of those things. I would have preferred if we got a "in your face" scattergun ability instead but thats just the way the cookie crumbles i guess.
No Legit Azeroth Comparisons
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by Valceanu
Seriously now...does anyone think that the WOW phenomenon was not a complete and utter fluke?? ... do you think that will ever happen to any other MMO?? i dont mean to say that the game was not well done...in fact it was the most polished of its time but that was just one factor in its favor. It also happened to launch at the correct time in a market prepared to take it in. And there were other factors too...but the point is that WoW had the success it did because by some twist of fate these factors came together at precisely the right time...and while a do appreciate the work Blizzard did with that game, im a realist.
As far as WoW itself is concerned...its had no appeal to me for a long time (although i did play it for a good 4-5 years or so). After TBC they began introducing lots of features that only endorse "laziness" and these days the age requirement for that game is no higher then 7-8 years old. This all culminates with MoP which will soon launch. At least thats how it looks from where i stand.
If i was goona compare TOR with anything it would be TBC WoW...that was the best period for that game IMHO.
Even so, TOR brings a lot to the table as far as i am concerned as it brings RPG back into the mmorpg genre...its not just another bland mmo. It has its faults and id like to see the ability delay, UI, AH system and so on fixed...the devs have recognized their faults at least to a certain extent and are working towards fixing things. On the other hand, there are a lot of things (like LFG tool, dual spec and so on) that have been discussed to death in other threads that i would prefer not to be included in TOR...from that perspective at least, for me, TOR is ahead of WoW.
...just my 2 cents.