StepTNT
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Well those screenshots clarify everything. You are playing pub side, the only reason why you're struggling.
Ok, following your post I moved to imp side, 1250 with the first 10 matches.
Fine.
But why? I mean, I even performed worse than rep side as I miss the whole left part of gear, so why is my solo rating lower on the side which I performed the best?
That's one of the points of my thread: I want to be rewarded based on how I play, not based on how 3 random strangers do.
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(...)
However, the biggest misconception I see from people is they think because they did X amount of DPS / HPS they should of won and it's everyone else who is ruining their rating. From my observation, most players are average skill level, have an average solo ranked IQ, but they feel they're a top notch player. An average player, should not exceed the silver rating without a massive amount of luck, and most of the time they don't.
(...)
Given that I always got gold with my blood and sweat, here are 2 screenshots of what's been happening in the last weeks. Tell me again how they're not ruining my rating.
Please beware that these are just 2 of the most recent cases, but it has been going like this for the past two weeks (if screenshot feature didn't fail that much, I could've uploaded an album full of examples).
I understand about knowing when to queue, but unless you dedicate your life to this game you can only play when you have time, so you can't really plan things and queue dodge those people.
The sad thing is that this happens because EVERYONE can join a ranked, and they're encouraged to as the daily gives better rewards than the non-ranked one. I can deal with lack of skill, but I don't understand why BW encourages people to play in a competitive game mode when they're clearly not ready to do it.
Ranked PVP should not be a way to get gear, this is plain wrong.
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Trying to reply to everyone but this forum lacks a multi-quote option, sorry if I missed any of you and thanks for your replies!
(..)However, the fact lower geared people are allowed in has given us MORE FREQUENT pops but on the other hand lots of 3 vs 4 matches happen because Jeff who has no clue and has 109k health won't last long enough to push one DCD' button on his keyboard.
I think Jeff is a necessary evil even because without Jeff queing, we would have LESS pops and personally wouldn't want to wait 35 mins for a damn pop to lose 15 points.
(..)
Well, I'd rather have one winning arena each 30 mins than 2 losing ones every 15min
I feel your pain. I played a bit at the start but I'm a min/maxer so I wanted to gear out a bit more. Did that, came back, full of hackers. So after a few games I went away again. Dabbled here and there but the people in the queue, as you stated, that shouldn't be there, ruined it again for me.(..)
That's the reason why I started too late to get some rating, I didn't want to join with less than optimal gear and now I'm the one with ruined rating -.-
(..)
Not sure how to fix solo PVP but I think alot could be done to marginalize solo PVP and elevate team pvp. It's not hard to find 3 other people to play with.
Well, group ranked means team coordination and other things. You need to build a team and do a lot of training together to avoid being smashed by people that are already used to play as a team. Of course you need a lot of free time too, which is a luxury that I don't have now.
If they start rewarding based off performance, the team aspect will suffer because people will go for personal productivity at the expense of helping a teammate. If a teammate needs a heal, and i have the option of healing them or dpsing instead, according to a productivity system, im gonna dps and let my teammate die so they cant dps and do better than me. This may not be the intended result of your elo scoring, but people tend to adapt to the method that benefits them more. And you know that top performer is gonna come with the $hitt3r comments afterwards because that system encourages it even more than our current system.(..)
I don't agree on this.
Helping the team helps you winning, which is the final goal.
Personal performance should be only evaluated in case of a loss, and should take into account everything that your class is capable off.
For example, I usually end up as top dps and top healer because, while doing damage, I try to keep my mates alive. Still, I lose my 14 points as the dummy guy that stands still while being killed.
So, using personal performance in case of loss may help the ones that really played to win, punishing only who delivered sub-optimal performances.
If you did 5k dps - it doesn't mean you're exceptionally good (in most cases), it means you were left to freecast (maybe because you're playing FOTM class). Meanwhile someone in your team had 4 people on him without any possibility to do anything close. Maybe instead of doing some of that dps you could peel for him, get a CC, throw some offheals if you're merc or operative. Doing raw dps doesn't always win games.From OP (I'm not playing merc or sniper, I'm not a fotm re-roller):
I know, it's not about the raw numbers, but you have to trust me when I say that I was attacking the correct target and it wasn't some random damage just to boost numbers.Also, it the same game I did >1M healing, despite we had a healer.
Also ending of the season isn't a good time to farm rating, since everyone that haven't paid attention to ranked is queueing right now.
I know, but unless you stopped having a life, getting to full 248 gear requires too much time to start playing before the end of the season. I played like 5 hours a week since they released GC, still I had to BUY (using unassambled, to buy 230, 242 and finally 248) my last set piece just last week.
I got my 248 offhand quite early, since that day I collected more than 10 244 offhands and countless other duplicates, while not getting that last needed piece. And this happens because GC looks like it's rigged to let you grind more, as instead of getting the only piece that I needed I spent two months getting a lot of useless duplicates.
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This is something like a rant, so feel free to move over.
Today I lost 70+ rating due to how Ranked works, and this is the last time that this happens as I won't renew my subscription for a very long time, even if it's sad as I've been a loyal sub since 2.0.
The amount of cr@p that we have to deal with in solo ranked is way too much for something that should be fun, and it's all related to your bad choices.
First of all, you allow every undergeared and unexperienced player to join a Ranked arena because the entry requirement is a joke, plus, you give them a daily quest that they will try to complete to get gear. The result is that we get players without bonus set, stim and augments playing in the same arena with someone with min/maxed gear that is struggling to get a little bit of points just to get into T3 (after being T1 for 4 seasons in a row).
This leads basically to 4vs3 games, but you'll still lose rating as in a normal 4vs4 because the 4th useless player is there. When politely asked why is he playing in a competitive game mode without the appropriate gear and skill, that 4th useless player usually replies that he needs to complete the daily if he wants to get gear, and this is the direct consequence of how you implemented Galactic Command.
I also saw people kicking "noobs" from a Ranked arena so that they couldn't complete their daily, and the reasoning behind this is that if you let me lose rating because of your daily, I'll try to stop you from completing it. Do you want to encourage this behavior?
Talking about gear again, is it hard to require a minimum gear rating of 246 to join the Ranked queue during an active season? I don't mind about preseason, but you can't let people do dailies while I'm grinding for 7 points (yeah, 7 if you win and -14 if you lose, as always..).
If not undergeared or unexperienced, some of them are either trolls or wintraders (you know, the only way of getting 4k rating on 2 characters), or, in the best case, they're just bad. So, why all the team must be punished because of them? I know, it's a recurrent subject, but what did you do to tackle this issue? Yeah, Ranked tokens, meaning that skilled players that have less free time will get less rewards than mindless drones farming arenas 24/7.
ELO is a rating system born for 1vs1 games, it doesn't fit SWTOR.
What about, after a loss, only who performed below losing team's average gets his rating reduced? I can't lose 14 points if, as a DPS player, I do more damage than my whole team combined. It's just not fair. Last week I lost 14 ELO despite doing about 5k dps, while arena's average was around 2600. I know, it's not about the raw numbers, but you have to trust me when I say that I was attacking the correct target and it wasn't some random damage just to boost numbers.
Finally, why arenas don't have an exhaustion zone as in 8v8 ones?
Thanks for reading and sorry for the rant.
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Same issue here, setting video quality preset to High or below solved the problem.
Let's wait for a fix or something.
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Well one thing that popped out at me about your rotation is that you arent using the +25% damage boost given by affliction (weaken mind) to Force Leech (force serenity) which is probably why your burst is so low.
This is only true in the opener, during the rotation WM is always on when I use FS
Basically the two dots have a 98% uptime, so they're only missing during the first part of the opener.
Also in a ranked match scenario which I tried out my new relic in, I had to use Force Alacrity on Force Serenity because 7/10 times, when they saw me cast FS, Id get interrupted. I rarely got interrupted on TK throw so maybe people have realized Sorc/Sages's burst comes from FSThis call's correct, that's why I use it before the opener and then only before the FS+FiB+Vanquish combo since FS is the only thing which I don't want to be interrupted!
I'd really like to see what the average kill time can be with your build/rotation and mine, because I think there's stil a little room for improvement (considering that we're talking about a sustained spec!)
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Feels like we're coming to the ultimate Madness form
Did you check my previous post with the 5993 parse? I'm curious to see what you think about it and if you have some suggestions on what gear to change to go up 6k while keeping a 25k burst.
BTW your 93% crit on Death Field is quite amazing
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So 2 things, good catch on the burst ceiling differences and its interesting that you are using a Crit relic rather than power. It seems that my highest burst is around 28k-ish where as yours is closer to 25k which is pretty damn close.
Ive read a few other PVE orientated theory crafters and they tend to all say that stick with Mastery/Power because the crit is all RNG and it might not pop when you need it. If you can go back to your parses and post the highlighted section of when your Crit relic is proc'ing that would be amazing as we can find out if its less or more effective than the Power relic. .
Crit Highlight from 5845 parse (hoping that I got it right
)Also for a ranked scenario rotation, you woudnt be able to use Unlimited Power/Force Empowerment so if possible, can you get a rotation without that involved? My parses didnt have that ability used since in ranked its not going to happen because rulesI feel like a complete idiot, I always parsed for PvE and totally forgot about it.
But....Balance - 5993 - 39.6 APM
Burst seems stable to previous values and...no Force Empowerment!
(Cutting at 1:30 as you did leads to 6181)
This needs more details tho.
I swapped one Alacrity Augment for an Overkill one and I changed my rotation to something like a priority system.
I'll try to explain what I mean but I'm not good in explanations (and I'm not a native English speaker
)Opener:
- Mental Alacrity
- Vanquish (Hard Cast)
- Force Serenity + Force in Balance
- Severe Force
- Weaken Mind
- TK Throw (3 or 4 times until you can do FS+FiB in the same GCD)
Now here's where things get a bit "messy".
After doing the 3 or 4 Tk Throw you go back to FS+FiB but you'll not reapply the two dots.
What I did, instead, was to cast another (or 2 more based on the previous number of Tk Throws) Tk Throw to wait until the dots wear off to apply them again from scratch.
This basically translates to something like this (after the opener):
- Force Serenity + Force in Balance
- Vanquish
- TK Throw (1 or 2 times until SF & WM wear off, you may need more based on Alacrity)
- Severe Force
- Weaken Mind
- TK Throw (2 or 3 times until you can do FS+FiB in the same GCD)
- Start again
Why can't I just provied a working "plug & play" rotation? Because I wasn't able to determine the correct number of TK Throws. Sometimes I needed just one, sometimes even 5 because I used MA after applying dots.
I can summarize the main rotation like this:
- Force Serenity + Force in Balance
- Vanquish
- TK Throw until SF & WM wear off
- Severe Force
- Weaken Mind
- TK Throw until you can do FS+FiB in the same GCD
- Start again
Which eventually will converge to the standard Balance rotation that everyone used pre 4.0 based on OCD usage.
Also have you attempted to use Mental Alacrity before using TK Throw to speed up that channel? Do you think it would be more effective to use it as an opener or better to use it after the first TK Throw?I'd say go for the opener, it has helped in the parse I've added up in this post.
Without MA I struggled to time up FS and FiB, using it before starting the opener made everything go smoother.
Also, in a typical Ranekd situation, if you want to open with Vanquish you need to be fast or someone will interrupt you, so you either use MA+Vanquish or MA+TK Throw to get a fast instant Vanquish.
So the final answer, at least IMO, is to use MA as first ability.
Please note that I'm not nearly as experience as you and that I always blindly followed guides (and yours too), now I'm just challenging myself in contributing to the discussion so I may be completely wrong
Also I wonder what would happen if I exchanged my power relic for a crit one since my Crit % is already at 40% and my abilities are critting just as much as yours. Ill try it once I get home.
I'm curious too.
I've got the Crit relic because I focused on Alacrity augments and some more Crit may be useful during the fight, and proc seems quite regular from my parses so it may be worth it.
TL;DR: check the red bold text and sorry for the wall of text
- Mental Alacrity
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Quick update with more burst but less DPS, gear is still the same (I'll stop here for today because my arm hurts for spamming TK Throw
)Before writing the rotation, please keep in mind that I have issues when changing my rotation so I ended up skipping some dots once in a while.
So, with a little bit of more training and maybe replacing one Alacrity augment with an Overkill one, I'm sure I can get back to 5800+ while keeping the added burst.
Here's the "new" rotation (basically I've taken something from the various rotations posted here):
- TK Throw
- Mental Alacrity
- Force Empowerment
- Sever Force
- Weaken Mind
- Force Potency
- Force Serenity + Force In Balance (just start spamming FiB as soon as FS channel starts)
- Vanquish
- TK Throw (4.5 times, until Severe Force wears off)
- Go to 4 and repeat
Both Mental Alacrity and Force Empowerment were used on CD but never before Severe Force and Weaken Mind because I thought that using them before the FS+FiB+Vanquish combo could increase burst.
As a side note, I think this rotation will lead to Force management issues, as I had some moments in which my force was under 50, and considering that in Ranked you may need some self healing, I'm not 100% sure that this can be viable.
I still think it may work because in Ranked you'll not be able to spam abilties like I did on Dummy, so maybe Force won't be an issue but I needed to point it out.
- TK Throw
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Also you arent using any of the PVE debuffs on the dummy are you? If you are, that might account for the big dps difference.
If you're ralking about the Armor Reduction one, it can't be used on the Warzone Dummy
Also, what is your augment set up, Im guessing its more into alacrity augs since your alacrity # is a bit higher than Naryik's so is your % at like 11% or 12%?
- 3x Advanced Alacrity Augment 40
- 3x Advanced Overkill Augment 40
- 6x Advanced Critical Augment 40
- 2x Advanced Versatile Augment 40
Running with 10.57% Alacrity
Also another very interesting thing is that with your low crit, your attacks are critting a LOT, like 40, 50 and even 60% crit rates on your attacks but Im assuming from your stats your crit chance is probably in the low 30s?
Actually I'm at
35.10% Crit Chance
65.23% Crit Multiplier
But the big difference may come from the Crit Relic instead of the Power one (sorry, I don't remember the names!).
- 3x Advanced Alacrity Augment 40
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Hi there and thanks for your guide!
I'm a T1 Sage but I don't think I'm an expert at all, still I wanted to try some of your suggestion mixing them with things from different sources and experiences.
This is my last parse (cut at 4:30 because I stopped after that but I still was in fight):
To be honest I was surprised that I pulled higher numbers than yours, because I always sucked with dummy parsing.
I've never checked how long a Ranked round lasts, but if I cut the parse at around 1:30 I'm at 6k DPS.
Here are my stats (with Advanced Anodyne Versatile Stim, all class buffs and all datacrons):
- Mastery: 4744
- Endurance: 5446
- Power: 2588
- Critical: 986
- Alacrity: 1041
Rotation was quite simple.
I used the #3 rotation from the OP as opener, then I followed this kind of guideline:
- Tk Throw (until dots wear off, clipping around 4th execution)
- Sever Force
- Weaken Mind
- Force In Balance
- Vanquish
- Force Serenity
I tried to avoid applying dots before they ran out, so I used more fillers instead of reapplying them.
I've not tried with your gearing suggestions because I'm out of commendations and I don't have enough time to get them now, but I wanted to share my results to see if I'm on the right track or if it was just a matter of luck and my build won't work in a real fight.
- Mastery: 4744
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Sounds like you are doing PVE content and wanting to maximize your dps. I would recommended the purple Anodyne resolve stim as it buffs your two main attributes (Willpower/Endurance) by quite a bit and it lasts over 7 hours and persists through death.
Stim's already on, as well as Anodyne adrenal.
I'm at 4/5 TOS HM so I'm not a "noob", still I struggle to get high numbers and I fail to understand why.
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I know that there are a lot of topics like this one, but I thought that it would've been better to start a new one to post my parse and get advices based on how I play.
The situation is quite easy: I'm around 4200 DPS with Balance (without adrenal) but I can't do more than 4300 with TK (with adrenal), which sounds strange to me since TK should perform way better than Balance.
Before linking the parse, here are my gear and stats:
Gear:
1x Revanite Force Master's Device
1x Resurrected Stalker's MK-X Package
1x Revanite Stalker's MK-X Package
1x Revanite Relic Of Serendipitous Assault
1x Revanite Relic Of Focused Retribution
5x Advanced Resolve Armoring 38
3x Advanced Resolve Armoring 37
3x Advanced Mettle Mod 38A
2x Advanced Aptitude Mod 38A
3x Advanced Aptitude Mod 38
1x Advanced Aptitude Mod 37
1x Advanced Initiative Enhancement 38
1x Advanced Assault Enhancement 38
2x Advanced Adept Enhancement 38
1x Advanced Adept Enhancement 37
1x Advanced Finesse Enhancement 38
1x Advanced Quick Savant Enhancement 38
1x Advanced Resolve Hilt 37
2x Advanced Hawkeye Crystal
4x Advanced Accuracy Augment 36
10x Advanced Resolve Augment 36
Stats:
Willpower: 4426
Bonus Damage: 1954
Power: 1619
Force Power: 2626
Accuracy: 110.41%
Accuracy Rating: 799
Critical Chance: 25.47%
Critical Rating: 260
Critical Multiplier: 72.05%
Surge Rating: 471
Alacrity: 1.58%
Alacrity Rating: 120
3/6 set pieces
As you can see, gear's still not optimal (very far from it actually), still this doesn't mean that it's ok to make more damage with Balance. Plus, I was around 4500 DPS before the Forcequake nerf and with far worse gear.
To be honest, I had some lag spikes and lag was around 450ms for the whole parse, but the Balance parse was done under the same conditions.
Can you please give me some advices and help on how to deal with this situation? I'm quite sure that I have to do higher numbers, but I can't seem to do better than this (this one's the best parse of the 7 done today, so I'm actually trying.)
Thanks in advance
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Thanks for the reply.
Do you know what's the average level of ranked players? I mean, you said that I may end up with people with no PvP gear at all, but is this a common situation or just something that happens randomly? Because I'm really competitive and I hate losing a match because of that kind of people
I also don't see a lot of players in the Ranked leaderboards, is this because RE is like some kind of "lower league"?
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Hi there, I'd like to move from ToFN because RE feels more populated and this helps in getting groups for ops, but I also play a lot in Ranked PvP and I'd like to know how's the situation there.
Can you please tell me if RWZ are popping without having to wait for more than one hour and if players are mature enough or areans are full of trolls/wintraders? What's the status of Ranked PvP in your server?
Thanks in advance!
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And what about troll victims' rating?
I lost 40 elo because of quitters, will I get it back?
Because it's fine to punish them, but making their trolling useless it's surely better.
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Conveniently you left out the comms you get for simply participating (which you do not get in PvE), and that accounts for a very significant portion of comms.Add 150 commendations per each game played and, if you win them all, you'll have 3150 more regular commendations.
Y'know, reading before quoting is always a good idea
I'm happy to see math used to make an argument, I'm just curious about your comm numbers, especially for dailies and weeklies. I think your ranked comms/week total is half of what it should be, which is really throwing off your final estimate.(...)
It may be, I did it really quick because I was half asleep and I didn't double check data but keep in mind that I've not considered the Ranked daily+weekly and that may be the reason why my numbers are lower than yours.
Still, trhe point is that getting Ranked gear is not easy as he said.
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Admit it. You just wanted an easy way to gear (not that this game is hard to gear at all).
No way man, you have no idea of what you're talking about.
Try to get Ranked gear during season and then tell me how much it took.
Hint: a lot of time. During season you don't want to enter Ranked without having full Dark Reaver gear, meaning that you have to get gear by converting regular warzone commendations (at a 3:1 rate). Plus, you need to buy Exhumed gear first ebcause you need to turn them back in.
Quick math (without talking about min/maxing, just to make things easier, and hoping that I not left any piece behind):
- Full Exhumed Set: 12500 regular commendations
- Full Dark Reaver Set: 28975 ranked commendations = 86925 regular warzone commendations
Now, doing dailies + weeklies, you can get 2300 regular commendations and 500 ranked commendations each week. Add 150 commendations per each game played and, if you win them all, you'll have 3150 more regular commendations.
So, the total is 5450 regular and 500 ranked commendations each week.
Converting Ranked commendations into regular will allow you to get almost 6000 regular commendations each week, meaning that you will need a little more than 2 weeks to get your gear which is totally fine.
But coming to Ranked gear here's wehre the magic comes: you can convert that 5450 regular commendations to ranked, having a pool of 2316 Ranked commendations per week.
This means that you will need the insane amount of 37.5 weeks to finish your set.
Luckily we had pre season to gear up using ranked games and this helped a lot, but given that there won't be a preseson between S4 and S5 and that I don't want to play Ranked with my alt because I don't want to ruin other people's game, can you please tell me how am I supposed to gear him for then next Ranked season if I can't transfer commendations from my Ranked toons?
Just in case you missed it, we're talking of a 37 weeks long grid, are you still sure that getting Ranked gear is easy?
- Full Exhumed Set: 12500 regular commendations
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So when is BioWare announcing the action they are taking against accounts for using this exploit, or are you going to continue going soft on PvP exploiters?
Oh dear, you can't be serious.
Did they release something to tell us that this was an "exploit"?
No, not even a blog post or a short note to say something like "hey guys, we messed up so please don't use titles to move commendations because we don't like and we may punish you".
So, considered that this thing has been allowed since the release of Strongholds, and that this is an alt oriented game, how can you think that people deserve punishment for using a feature that nobody told them to not use?
Especially because there's still BOE gear that can be used to move PvE commendations, so how people could think that this was an "exploit"? Are you saying that this is an "exploit" just because you hate PvP? Did you ever transfer token PvE gear to an alt using legacy gear? Because it's the same damn thing, and this is no "exploit".
And please stop comparing this to Ravager's exploit, in this case we still had to play warzones to get comms, nothing was free.
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(...)
Of course, to be fair I don't know how elastic their Elo system is. Could be that they can just fiddle with the values, in which case just making it so you don't lose more points with a loss than you can gain with a win would be a drastic improvement.
It doesn't matter how elatci their Elo may be because, as Wikipedia says, The Elo rating system is a method for calculating the relative skill levels of players in competitor-versus-competitor games such as chess.
Elo is not meant to work in team games
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Hey folks,
Quick update: Yesterday, players who fell in the camp of "win-trading" were notified with warnings, etc. as we already alluded to. Today, we have begun to sent out warnings and actions against those players who fall under the griefing category. Based on the severity of their griefing, actions taken against those players range from a warning all the way up to a week of suspension time.
Thanks everyone, I will keep you apprised with updates as we have them.
-eric
I don't mean to rush things or something, but can we have some kind of answer on the rating system thing?
I'd like to know if I can expect a better system for the enxt season because I'm not sure I want to pay to play with the current one.
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The medals and damage/heal/protection was just an idea which I didn't elaborate properly but it may be summarized like this: if your team lose but you still played "good enough" (based on the previous parameters) then you should not lose something like 20 rating (it just happened that I lost 20 rating despite having 3 kills and the highest DPS between the two teams).
This should mitigate somehow the loss caused by bad luck and bad teams (even if I'd like that my rating depends just on me and not anyone else).
Just a quick reply to your first point: the ready check idea wasn't meant to be a solution for trolls but rather a way to avoid people being afk and leaving the match 3 vs 4. If you click ready and then you just throw the match, than you should lose 50 rating while leaving other player's rating untouched.
I mean, of course my ideas are just my ideas and surely there's a way to improve them, but I felt we needed some kind of starting point to see if BW really cares of their customers and tries to help us having a better experience with their game
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Important: The only additional thing you'd need to do, however, is to hide the details of team B until team A has all clicked Ready, and vice versa. This needs to be implemented together with the previously mentioned system, otherwise people will refuse to check Ready if they think they're playing against a composition (or player) they think they will lose against.
Well, I guess there's no perfect system but it can be improved.
1) You're correct, an idea would be to hide the other players and just show them once the Ready Check is done so that you don't know who your mates and enemies are and you can complete the Ready Check instead of using it to avoid a sure loss situation
(...)
However, the devs also can't directly combat this, because there is no way to definitively prove someone's DC was intentional or not.
As sucky as it is, ultimately the best solution is to always punish a DCer, regardless of intent. This not only soundly discourages any attempt to better one's rating by DCing from a match intentionally, but it also encourages players to ensure their internet is stable before playing Ranked, thus ensuring more matches will be DC-free.
^ This.
It may not be the perfect solution but it's surely better than what we have now.
DC may happen to everyone, but it should be something that happens like just once in a month so the punishment won't hurt the player. If you DC more than that well...Check your connection before going into ranked and ruin people's matches!
I'm TIRED of how Ranked works.
in PvP
Posted
Completed my 248 set without playing a single ranked match, what you're saying is wrong.
Who cares? The rest of your team does.
There are plenty of other ways to get your gear without ruining the games to other players, there's no need to be that selfish.