Saikochoro
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Posts posted by Saikochoro
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Oh wow. Thanks much for the detailed breakdown.
Had no idea those colors were so important. I'm having flashbacks to when I learned about combo fields in GW2 lol. With how long it took me to encounter this info, it makes me wonder now how many other players out there have no idea about the difference.
No problem. Yeah damage types are some of the most important things to know as it really helps you to know what defensive cooldowns to use when and against who and also how to counter those cooldown.
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What's the difference between white and yellow damage? First time I've heard this term.
There are 4 main damage types: melee, range, force, and tech.
White damage = melee and range
Yellow damage = force and tech.
Note that force is exclusive to force using classes, and tech is exclusive to tech classes (agents, troopers, bounty hunters, smugglers). Melee and range are not exclusive.
When you attack someone damage numbers will pop up. If they pop up as white you are using melee or ranged attacks. When they pop up as yellow you are using force or tech attacks.
Generally channeled attacks from snipers and mercs are ranged. Dots from either are generally tech. Usually time bombs are tech (i.e. Thermal detonator, explosive probe, volatile substance). CC abilities are also force or tech for the most part and thus fit in the yellow category even if damage numbers don't pop up (i.e. Flashbang). Sorcs and concealment operatives are basically solely yellow damage because they are completely either force or tech. Marksmanship snipers are basically solely range damage hence they only really do white damage. Virulence and engineering have a mix of range and tech attacks. IO and arsenal mercs have a mix of range and tech attacks.
Most specs of most classes have a decent mix of white or yellow damage, which is nice because many defensive cooldowns target either white or yellow damage. The best examples of this is evasion on operatives and force shroud on assassins. Force shroud provides complete protection from force and tech attacks (yellow damage) as well as cc, but no protection against white damage. Evasion on the other hand provides complete protection against melee and ranged damage (white damage), but no protection against yellow damage and thus no protection against cc. Thus MM snipers can still do a hella lot of damage to sins with shroud, but not to ops with evasion. Granted they both have other cooldowns, but you get the idea. Some cooldowns protect against both types like saber ward, and some protect against sub types of damage like saber reflect (which protects against force, tech, and ranged, but not melee). A lot of the rng based defenses protect against white damage (i.e. Deflection) and then there are straight up damage reduction cooldowns that don't care about damage type (undying rage, camo, cloak of pain, invincible). If you noticed the first three I mentioned that don't care about damage types are from marauders. Marauders also have saber ward, which has high white damage protection and moderate yellow damage protection. They also have one very high white damage protection cooldown. This is one reason why marauders have the best defensive cooldowns, because they can't be countered by using a different damage type, whereas most others can. The visa versa is true with damage. Generally classes with a good mix of white and yellow damage can counter defensive cooldowns better.
So it is extremely important to know what type of damage each of your attacks are and what types of damage each defense protects against.
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Would it be last team standing wins or most kills? I could imagine a pile of double stealth teams waiting to open up on the last team if it was last team standing. I think kills or maybe most damage or something. I mean killing blows could easily be stolen and misrepresent. But regardless of who wins or not, the idea alone sounds fun.
No there would be infinite respawns. First team to a certain number of kills wins.
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All of those would be extremely fun. Yeah 8 teams of 2. Haha as long as it restricted heals. All vs All...healers would be useless. I like the idea of no respawn just kill count.
Actually wouldn't need to restrict heals as they wouldn't get any kills and would this lose. Sure they may not die, but they won't win.
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maybe a expertise cristals with a secondary function -like amor penetration
chance to deflect etc
more mobility for melee class,
nerf mercs !
buff sins deception xD
maybe new skill with a cool animation
remove phase walk from sorc too
idk, what you guys think about 5.0 and what you guys want in 5.0??I wouldn't mind a different game mode. Yeah objectives are fun and all, but they get boring. Arena is the only team death match and it can get boring too. I'd like a slayer type map where it is team death match, but players respawn until a kill total is reached (maybe 100 or so depending on team size). I'd also like this map to allow for more than two teams. For example 8 teams of 2 would be awesome, as would 4 teams of 4. Or just all against all would be great too. This would keep me entertained for a while I'm sure.
Maps like original huttball, proving grounds, and queshball would be good for this game type with more spawn points of course. The more I think about it the more fun it sounds to me. It would also make tank+heal combo less desirable. Yeah they would survive better, but not kill as much. As kills are what count toward winning and not lack of deaths it would incentivize a different strategy. And I really would like facing off against multiple teams. I would especially love the 8 teams of 2. Queue with one friend and see how you do against other duos.
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How hard is it getting used to the positioning on a sniper?
Hmm. Another it depends answer. It really comes down to how fast you can adapt. The cover mechanic is different than anything else on the game. So that's one facet. Another facet is to know where to go into cover to give you the best range of fire whilst still having somewhere to escape. It can be difficult, but it is something that will help you on other classes as well. Positioning is important for all, but very very important for snipers.
It takes a lot of practice. It also takes knowing where people like to line of sight you and knowing how your defenses work. For example I don't like positioning myself with a wall or pillar right behind me because that makes cover pulse useless for getting rid of people behind. I don't mind small obstacles in front of me (natural cover) though. I like to have as wide a field of fire as possible and be close enough to pillars that I can spam suppressive fire around to get the people who are pillar humping.
Just takes practice is all. But the cover mechanic adds a bit of complexity to it. It is very rewarding when you get it down though.
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Thanks for that description. It's helping with my choice. (still undecided)
No problem. Both are very fun. If you have more specific questions or scenarios just post them and we will answer.
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Am I wrong in thinking that Plasma probe (I think it's called, I'm terrible with the names of abilities, the little bursty fire thing that sits there and damages anyone that comes near it) for engineering spec is also really, REALLY useful in any "control the node" game. I use that thing all the time to stop caps without having to get in the enemy's face. Also the slow utitliy on it is really nice, because slowing someone is just useful everywhere. Or am I doing it wrong?
You don't really use plasma probe for damage honestly. You use it so you can stun someone who has interrogation probe on with emp discharge. But moreso it is used for area denial and control. It is spammable and has a nice slow on it. Engineering snipers are great for area denial and trolling people with the slow on plasma probe. I remember playing a huttball against a team with 2 engineering snipers who spammed plasma probe on and in front of the ball carrier the whole time and it was killer because of the slow. Engineering is honestly the most fun of all three specs, but the hardest to perform well with.
That said, when you stack plasma probe, orbital strike, and suppressive fire on a large group you have some pretty tasty aoe damage going.
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Fixed it for you
Yeah, I'm not sure how he got that one wrong.
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Well what if i want to go ranked?
Both will suffer in solo ranked where their isn't very good teamwork usually and trinity isnt enforced. I'd give the edge to snipers in team though, but either would do fine with good team and trinity support. Both are perfectly fine in regs.
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God, I really hate being in this position. I finished leveling my sage and now I have a decision. A Sniper or Merc.
Now my question is which one has the better utilities for pvp, damage, and which can survive the longest.
This is a "it depends" answer. Merc is going to be more similar to sorc than sniper is so you may have an easier time with Merc. Sorcs have healing as do mercs. Sorcs and mercs are both more mobile than snipers. One hard thing you have to come to grips with if you choose sniper is getting really good at positioning and using cover and also not having self heals.
Both snipers and mercs do excellent damage. If you were straight up face tanking one the sniper would win. Snipers have good protection from leapers because they can't be leap to in cover. Nor can they be interrupted in cover. They also have a very powerful ability called entrench, which gives them cc immunity for 20 seconds. Note entrench is only active while you are in cover. Snipers have some nice defenses between entrench, evasion, diversion, shield probe, covered escape, and their cc. Most people don't seem to realize that sniper roll is similar to concealment operatives roll in that it dodges attacks. But snipers can still get burned down fast if they aren't good at positioning.
Snipers have a burst spec (marksmanship), bursty control aoe hybrid spec (engineering), and a dot/delayed burst spec (virulence). All three are good, but most do marksmanship because it is the easiest to perform well with. The biggest disadvantage to marksmanship is that it is purely white damage, while the other two specs have a nice mix between white and yellow damage.
Mercs advantages are that they are more mobile and have healing to supplement their fairly weak defenses. Mercs have a burst spec (arsenal) and a dot/delayed burst spec (innovative ordinance) as well as a healing spec (bodyguard). The key to doing well on a meecenary is to get really good at kiting and positioning. Mercenaries also have a very nice mix between yellow and white damage so one defense won't completely shut down your damage unless it is something like undying rage. Mercenaries main defenses really are kiting and healing because their actual cooldowns won't really save you in a pinch, whereas snipers defenses can, but snipers don't have the longevity that heals have the potential of giving you. Mercenaries also have electro net, which is very nice for taking out sorcs and concealment operatives.
I think both classes are extremely fun, but have different play styles. I'd suggest doing both. Probably start with Merc as they are more similar to sorcs than snipers are and hen move on to sniper. Or if you want a bigger change of pace start with sniper, but eventually do both.
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I think it would be a good idea. Focus trauma and then focus burst them. It would the counter to someone being guarded and focus healed. The trauma should be a dedicated ability and not baked into a different attack, but should be stackable. Maybe 25% for 1 stack, 40% for 2 stacks, and max out at 50% for 3 stacks. That would be great.
Another change should be to revert interrupt cooldowns. Should be able to interrupt more often, especially with all the interrupt immunity that some have.
Also it would be interesting if there was a trauma counterpart that was only useable on targets being guarded and it reduced the effectiveness of guard instead. That could be interesting. Or if there was a move that could break guard for like 4-6 seconds.
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Carbine Burst is THE weakest ability in the game, end of discussion.
Pretty much
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Maybe you will be surprised again, but arsenal merc should win dps jugg 1v1.
If you want a comparison, here it is:
Jugg's DCD:
Saber ward, Enraged defense, Reflect, Endure pain, Mad dash
Merc's DCD:
Energy shield, Chaff flare, Kolto overload, Supercharged defense, Hydrawlic overrides, Rocket out.
Yep, most of them are kinda meh, but hey! In arsenal you have pretty decent offhealing!
Jugg's CC:
Hardstun, AoE mezz that doesn't work in vengeance, single target knockback.
Merc's CC:
Hardstun, single target mezz, aoe knockback, electro net.
Damage:
Arsenal merc has rage level of burst and vengeance level of sustained.
To be honest I don't want to continue this dialogue since the vast majority of people will still try to prove me that jug is god of pvp, while merc is weak and underpowered. Maybe some of them will throw screenies where they 1v1'd IO merc as their FOTM tank with dps gear.
I would even understand if all these people play solo ranked on their mercs, but there will be only a few (also funny that merc's rating in solo is higher than jugg's). Others just play regs where they are facetanking melee, bursting into reflect, trying to rambo 1v3 and wondering why they always die.
Mercs are good in regs and where they have team support. Mercs can be good in 1v1. But you aren't going to be able to convince many that juggs defenses aren't very strong. Sure I do agree that marauders are better, but I've said that before in several threads. Save marauders, juggs have the strongest defenses. They also have decent control and good damage. You seem to severely downplay a juggs strengths and overstate other classes strengths and understand their weaknesses.
I have beat many juggs 1v1 as a Merc, but they aren't face tanking a jugg. It requires kiting and healing if the jugg is any good. But a Merc getting ganked doesn't have nearly the tools a jugg does. And I'm fine with that because a jugg is melee and mercs are not. I don't think mercs should have cooldowns like that personally. But you have to admit that juggs are still a strong class regardless of what the worthless leaderboards say.
Also, a great many juggs are shanks because they are very powerful. Just like a great many sorcs are healers are very powerful. Just because there is a weaker version of each does not downplay how strong those two are. Chances are if you face a jugg in pvp it is going to be a shank, which is stronger than either dps spec or tank spec in tank mitigation gear.
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maybe so but i also play mando same spec and see how things go there
same story
but now i did 4 vs 4 i had 2 sagas with me and a vanguard
imps had 2 snipers 1 mar and 1 opertive i think ouch gonna be hard sniper are already very very tanky
and opertive are just a pain in pvp
but thx to the 2 sagas i was able to kill them with out them i was dead in no time
but mostly team work in pvp is very sad
but like i said earlier ad imps almost no1 play them in pvp
its always jugg opertive and sorcs and i see more and more assassins now
and am the only merc around XD
when the pvp end juggs are 1 2 and 3 place sorc are 4th and so on
and players always pick a class that are atm OP in pvp and jugg is atm king in defense and damage
and good pvp players always go for the weaker classes first and yea that are merc and mar atm
they always go after you first with so 2 ore 3 players dead in seconds
some even w8 till i go back and repeat the story
mostly i die 15 times when others die only so 2 a 3 times
some times am lucky when the other teams are bad and dont focus on me then yea am mostly 3th place
then i can do my high damage and kill allot off players
but its very rare i can do that
Yes most teams don't do team work very well. That's why players have to become self sufficient. The single most important skill to get good at as a Merc (and some other class) is kiting. Kiting is usually what sets apart the good from the inexperienced. If you are exceptional at kiting you will prevent yourself from dying that many times.
Honestly, it just sounds like you need more practice. I was better in 2.0 than I was in 1.0. I was better in 3.0 than I was in 2.0. I'm better now than I was in 3.0. It all comes down to practice. I used to die more often, but now not so much. Only time I die is when several people gang up on me and I am unable to escape. Getting good at single encounters will deter people from hunting you. Getting good at kiting will help in single encounters and in gank situations. Positioning is so important. Run around next to the sorcs on your team. Even if they aren't helping you at all it will deter people from attacking you because people will think the sorc is helping you. Always know where to go to escape. Just takes a lot of practice.
One more piece of advice that I give to ALL players: level up and play all classes and all specs in pvp. It will help you identify each specs strengths and weaknesses better than anything else you can do.
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The thing is I was still talking about OTHER classes, not Sorcs. Happy you got that.
Because it would make the amount of CC in the game a tad bit more bearable with the fantastic matchmaking (i. e. none) there is in regs?
Oh I have my opinions on cc as well. Cc should be dedicated abilities and not baked into attacks and rotations. At the very least.
Also ALL cc should both add to and respect resolve.
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In most 8v8 maps in about 80% of the scenarios your breaker won't help you anything, it's not even worth wasting.
Oh, and just to make it clear: I was talking about making life better for OTHER classes, not further buffing Sorcs.
The thing is you don't have to worry about using your breaker on a sorc as you already have two other ways to escape cc. All other classes have to be more concerned with cc. Some are able to use cooldowns while stunned. And let's be clear, those should not be able to be used while stunned either.
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I am very proud of you and your two sin teammates! =)
Yes, all three of them should be given a special title or something. Not sure what the title would say though. Something good though.
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Afraid someone might fight back when your stunlock ends?
No, such thing as stun-lock unless multiple enemies are focusing down 1 person with coordinated cc and burst. That is how it should be.
Unless you have 3+ people on someone they won't die in a single stun 99% of the time anyway. So, if someone breaks the first stun they deserve to be stun-locked. Coordinated cc and burst is completely countered by only barrier and phase walk. Even enraged defense doesn't do as well.
Afraid to actually pay attention to resolve and use stun breaker properly?
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Yes, a wz respec in the beginning would be useful. Not after it began, though.
I would enjoy the unpredictability that could arise from being able to respec whenever in a warzone though. It could be fun. Would be hard to balance roles though unless the teams did it themselves. Hence I could see an issue.
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If anything, more defensives should be available to any class while stunned.
No, no, no. Absolutely not. Hell no. This "useable while stunned" stupidity needs to end. Same with the stupid "cc immunity" crap.
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it became a question because one guy tried to use his low valor as an appeal to authority. your point that that is a fallacy is correct, but i chose option b, of pointing out that he hadn't achieved enough to be considered an authority by that measure. your claim, however, is the fallacy of oversimplification. you cannot just load into a wz and then go afk to get valor, and valor doesn't "mean nothing", it is a measure of how much time a character has in pvp. if i see that someone has 100 valor on a class, i am going to pay a lot more attention to what they say. maybe i will agree with them and maybe i won't, but i don't believe it is possible to get to 100 without learning a lot about a class.
to the original question, mercs can feel weak to some because they have the same flaw as snipers: they don't have a leave me alone button to force a focus change. everyone figured out that we don't have a lmab and started targeting us first, and that is really bad since we don't have any way of making them leave us alone... heals are not as effective as absorb shields when getting focused so mercs are in an even worse spot than snipers, BUT...
this is only an issue when they are getting heavy focus. in ranked arenas it is easy for 4 people to quickly coordinate on a single target before the match starts and good enough to follow through on it. occasionally you will find a premade using ts that will do the same, but the lack of ability for players to coordinate that in 8v8 and the quality of play one usually finds in reg arenas make it a small problem. i wish that they had a lmab. i wish my sniper had one too because that is the toon i am best on, and would love to prove that in ranked, but the title of this thread "why merc are so bad in pvp" is so far off base it doesn't deserve honest and detailed explanation or discussion. i should have just trolled it.
You don't have to do hardly anything to get valor in a warzone. I've seen people who tout high valor level who only play one class and who aren't good at it. Valor truly is meaningless. Pvp achievements is a bit better of an indicator as you actually have to do certain things, but even that doesn't always indicate if a player is good or not.
I respect that you have your own opinion though so we will just have to agree to disagree on valor.
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Objective based PvP with this game's tank and heal metas is pointless. A tank and a healer can keep nearly a whole team from achieving objectives almost forever. And the issue here is surely NOT that most DPS are bad, because most tanks and healers are bad as well (as most players in general are). Meaning that if skill is equal, then tanks and healers will rule. This is simply poor balance, or at least a balance that might work with death matches, but surely doesn't with objective based ones.
Lesson learned. No improvement to be expected, so I won't waste my time and my money playing this anymore.
Cretinus didn't you see my post about how to defeat tank + heals in the sorcs a tiny bit too powerful thread? I mean sorcs really NEED all their tools. In fact I think guard should absorb 100% of damage (only when guarding sorc healers of course), but only transfer 25% of it to the tank. That would put tank + heals on par with dps. Oh and roaming mend should be useable while stunned.
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I agree that these two abilities should not be activated while stunned/mezzed. but I think that's also a HUGE nerf that would probably put them below operatives as the best healers, so I think all other issues you discussed need to be side bared if you're going to do something like this. not that that's a bad thing. a major port of the problem with sorc healing is that they've been the best healing AC for far too long. things have really stagnated.
sorcs aren't the only class that can play their bag of tricks while stunned though. juggs, PTs, Mercs (IO) all have significant dcds that can be activated while stunned. personally, I find entrench more offensive than any of those abilities (including barrier/PW) because entrench can last 20s, so it feels like I can't ever cc a sniper. I know that's how the class is designed, but just talking about CC-related frustrations, mine isn't that a sorc has the extra ways to break. it's that snipers and warriors are immune for so long or during such crucial times, respectively.
also, the problem with bastion, imo, is that it absorbs dmg. I think the uninterruptable thing is reasonable, but coming out of 8s of immunity just to be immune and able to cast anything is kind of ridiculous.
Honestly id be content if they just fixed it to where those abilities could not be used while stunned. I don't think it would make them worse than operatives, but we can agree to disagree on that front.
I have stated in other threads that I don't think anything should be useable while stunned except for the stun breaker on any class or spec.
idk, what you guys think about 5.0 and what you guys want in 5.0??
Snipers vs Mercs PVP
in PvP
Posted
Yep, exactly. Again, as I stated before in my post, this is one of the biggest reasons why marauders have the best defensive cooldowns. Most of their cooldowns are damage reduction based and will therefore provide the same protection no matter if it's yellow or white. Therefore it can't be countered by using a different damage type. Another has protection against both, though the protection for yellow damage is a bit less. And then they can completely nuke the white damage of their enemy with an accuracy debuff called obsfucate. Even though they don't have self heals, their cooldowns offer very very good and well rounded protection with almost all of them.
If I had more time, and the willingness to do it, I would write out a list of all the defensive cooldowns in the game and say what they protect against and how to counter them (if there is an actual counter). That would take forever though. One of these days...