Evidence?

Ohohohoho, that just got you a point good sir!

I'm sad now.

Query: has anybody noticed the rhyme I put in at the end. Does anyone even read it anymore? *starts crying* ANYBODY!?

The Kaggath has begun.

“No game of dejarik can be won without pawns...” Round 2: The Alliance of Worlds vs Krayt’s Vision Welcome to second round of the ‘Kaggath Tournament’ Runner-Up Bracket, where the defeated and disgraced have the chance to redeem their honour, and challenge the future Kaggath Champion in an epic tournament-style extravaganza. The last battle, The Dark Imperium vs the Undying Brotherhood, was an epic showdown between two polar opposites. But once again the Brotherhood was taken down by a stab in the back, and the Imperium enjoyed a shadowy victory. But on to round two. For all those of you aren’t aware, the Kaggath is an ancient rite of the Sith, ‘one part duel, one part large-scale dejarik-match’. The two combatants have full use of their power bases, be it armies, strongholds or fleets, in order to outwit and outmanoeuvre their opponent. The Kaggath is no simple lightsaber duel, although it can come down to one, and the arena can be anywhere: a planet, star system or the entire galaxy. Before we begin, let’s go over the ground rules of the Runner-Up Bracket. The arena: the known galaxy. Only those incorporated in the listed in the faction compilations below can take part in the Kaggath. No outside help of any kind, the combatants cannot call upon assets outside their power base or influence. No outside involvement, other powers will not and cannot interrupt or affect the battle, for the purpose of argument they are non-existent. No surrender, fight to the death! Technology level is universal (unless considered archaic or advanced at the time): blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. are all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power. Factions are autonomous – players have no control over their factions decisions, this is determined by the nature of their leadership. To accommodate for the smaller battlefield, Major Naval Forces will be reduced to 1/10 of their original size and Minor Naval Forces to 1/5. So, the combatants: Tunewalker is returning with his cabal of do-gooders and LadyKulvax with her armada of Imperial evil. Behold the factions! The Alliance of Worlds Leadership Head of State: Leia Organa Solo Second-in-Command: Luke Skywalker (ROTJ) Allies: IG-88 & Wedge Antilles Supplier: Hapes Consortium Military Major Ground Force: Rebel Alliance Army Naval Force: Galactic Alliance Navy Planets Capital: Arkania Supply Base: Hapes Stronghold/Military Base: Carida Shipyards: Brentaal Shipyards: Rendili vs Krayt’s Vision Leadership Head of State: Darth Krayt Second-in-Command: Gilad Pellaeon Allies: Darth Talon & Ysanne Isard Supplier: Arakyd Industries Military Minor Ground Force: 501st Stormtrooper Legion & Krath War Droids Major Naval Force: Imperial Navy (Fel Empire) Planets Capital: Byss Supply Base: Vulpter Stronghold/Military Base: Prakith Stronghold/Military Base: Koros Major Shipyards: Foerost Both factions have vast and powerful armies at their disposal, cunning tacticians and deadly warriors, but rest on polar opposite scales of good and evil – but who is greater? Who will win? The battle lines have been drawn... Let the Kaggath begin!

What I'm saying is that if Malgus converted his entire fleet into a stealthed armarda, that portion of his fleet would disappear from Vaiken Station. I think we should assume it was a new fleet, after all you can't just slap a stealth generator on any old thing - often these have to be integrated into an entirely new set of schematics.

Still doesn't mean anything. Malgus Fleet =/= Stealth Fleet. Unless you have evidence that suggests otherwise. One things for sure, that portion of the fleet is still there.

This is what a Force Scream looks like. Never heard of it frying people's brains before.

I.e. Malgus' Fleet. Regardless I'm fairly sure that the stealth fleet was built specifically for that purpose.

According to Wookieepedia the fleet consists of only a dozen Harrowers and some Terminus of an unknown number. Regardless I don't think we have any evidence to suggest its the same fleet. Concerning suppliers, if they do not come under the same deductions you'll find that people will end up having more of those ships than there own. Though I may set a number for that, like two or something.

Well I was more thinking the BattleZone...

Well its a telekinetic attack essentially, TOR are just taking that and making it into a move. Makes a degree of sense.

The only "troll" here is the one throwing around insults and name-calling A.K.A - you. Don't waste your time with this guy people, I'm sure we have better things to be doing.

You are confusing doctrines with institutions. A doctrine does not make an Order, regardless of whether Plagueis bent the rules he never abandoned the Order of Sith Lords - he never founded a new Order. Sidious did.

I'm still curious as to why you feel that's necessary given your much improved situation. I don't want you to have any misconceptions regarding the realities of your position, though I'm sure that will become clear once the battle gets underway. And Malgus' Fleet =/= Malgus' Stealth Fleet which he captured. I'm not entirely sure if that's valid, as for garrisons you have 1/5 of what was preivously the case so one of each.

Erm yes. And I'm still confused as to why you think you've been nerfed when the opposite has occured. You also seemed to have missed the part where I explain why Aurbere has twice as many ships as you, its because he has lots of little cruisers.

I'm not blaming anyone but myself, I take full responsibility for this problem and I've being doing by best to correct it. And while major ground forces would be more realistic if made smaller, not nearly as many problems are created by keeping it as it is, so I see no real reason for any major change there.

I'm not sure how that makes sense, surely a larger disparity would make shipyards more important - in order to close the gap. And a small disparity just as important, as a small number of ships can tip the balance. Basically one shipyard can't accommodate for such a large fleet, or repair yard for that matter, nothing more to it.

I mean Sidious, sorry. But yes your correct, the Sith Emperor is not capable of these things whereas Sidious is. And I've read the Revan novel, and I'm afraid you have misinterpreted. Revan alone wasn't capable of defeating the Emperor, only Revan, Meetra and Scourge combined. Revan alone was quickly overwhelmed, as he would have been Sidious. And even combined it does not necessarily speak of great power, as they were merely exploiting the Emperor's weaknesses in a combat situation. There are plenty of other Jedi who would do better than him.

And this I'm afraid is ignorant. Ascribing 'cowardice' to hiding in the shadows and using clever manipulation rather than brute force to achieve your goals is fallacious. The Rule of Two was the logical and intelligent option as the tactic of open warfare failed. There is nothing brave about running blindly at your enemy in plain sight, that's just stupid.

Again semantics, regardless of whether Plagueis created his own doctrine (which he never officially did) it never came into fruition - it exists in theory alone. On the other hand the Rule of One did exist, Darth Sidious outlines its philosophy and tenets in the Book of Anger and puts it in to practice by not training an worthy successor and establishing sects such as the Inquisitoris etc. while ensuring all power of the dark side revolves around him. And regardless of this attempt to sabotage the Rule of Two, Plagueis and Sidious still remain a product of it and therefore the Rule of Two remains responsible for the fulfillment of the Grand Plan and Sidious' power, because without the Rule of Two these would never have come into effect, there is no other Order to attribute it too.

Well I was hoping that, in so far I feel they've been obsolete.

I think in general people need to understand that the purpose of these changes is to better simulate the realities of space combat. In "actual" conflicts entire naval forces numbered in the thousands, not fleets, and these forces were dispatched across multiple fronts. The Kaggath, as many may have noticed, has shrunk. We are no longer dealing with vast territories here but a small collection of planets, the sizes of the militaries should therefore reflect this if we are the accurately simulate the realities of conflict. Anyway because of this fiasco the Kaggath will be postponed, hopefully if we experience no more hiccups I can have it out tommorow or at least by the end of the week.

Do we have a source for this?