Kyrra_T
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Posts posted by Kyrra_T
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Pretty much.
The studio has acknowledged some of the concerns about the new release of conquest, and is making adjustments. That said.. they are not embracing and endorsing every complaint, and particularly not the most vitriolic ones... which is normal. This player community rages over literally every single change made to the game (remember last year when they flipped two buttons on the mail window UI? You would have thought they had blown up the planet). Or that time they consolidated the top menu and made it accommodate the growing list of clickies.... you would have thought they had killed everyones favorite pet. Yet within a few weeks.. the rage over these simple changes subsided as players adapted.
All that said... people waiting on pins and needles for fast and extensive fixes to Conquests are going to be disappointed as I think they will fix the most critical things, and adjust some settings.... but I doubt very much they will react to all the knee jerking over other things players simply do not like for the sake of not liking them. Patient players will adapt and do other things... the impatient.. will rage and quit. All of which is fairly normal in MMO player bases though.. so I'm not into buying in on all the catastrophic drama being presented by some.
Eh. It's only catastrophic to me personally. I don't think the game is going to last much longer but at its age that is actually normal end of life for an mmo. I believe, personal opinion, that they have accelerated this end by not listening to customers.
I'm picking up my rewards from two weeks ago today while feeling depressed. I'm not sure why I'm even doing that. My investment in the game is gone.
I'm heading onto other pastures, again, nothing catastrophic there. I have a few friends in other games who are heading there from here due to these changes, and others already there due to previous changes. I'm sad. It is reasonable, and normal, to be sad when something is ending. And , for me, this game is.
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This is how I understand it.
To even qualify for guild reward, guild has to meet its invasion goal.
To actually get the reward, guild has to be in top 10 of the chosen tier.
Am I wrong?
You are wrong.. Everyone, no matter the place whether it be one or 1,000, who meets the target gets the reward.
The only place that matters for the title is one. First place is the only one awarded the planetary conquest title.
Position 2 through infinity are meaningless to differentiate rewards. What is meaningful is if they meet the target points for the yield of the planet their guild chose as their goal.
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speaking as someone from a guild with around 30 active accounts at most times, its not always possible to do the content you want, on the characters you want, because sometimes we need healers, sometimes we need tanks, so the basic premiss of getting all the conquest points on one character then start working on the next just doesnt work.
i made a brand new character after this patch went live, as a place holder for when bored with end game stuff and want to maybe join in with some lower levelled guildies, and first kill, blam, 7k cp for the 2 wb's on ilum, on a level 2 character.
so, after 4 days, i got my first character to the cp goal, i am close to getting my 2nd character to cp goal, and have a shotgun splattering of cp's on 7 others including a level 2 operative who has 7k cp and no chance to do any of the other objectives.
legacy wide lock outs suck, the new points and objectives wouldnt have been a problem if all the content was available per character and not have all the big point stuff once per account, or even better, if we have legacy wide lock outs, make those points apply to each character on the legacy, i'd have been more than happy to run through all the one shot rewards on whichever character and role was needed for the group, knowing that all my other characters also got those point rewards, i could have got all my characters capped on day 1, then sepnt the rest of the week making full use of the double cxp
Additionally, when you switch characters you risk 'things' being reset. The current system has a problem differentiating between character, legacy and even guild, when awarding points.
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If only one aspect of the game is the only thing keeping people interested in the game, they are flirting with fire in the first place. That is their choice, just a very self-limiting one, and certainly one that BW isnt going to worry about towing the line to please. The game is dynamic. It is definitely going to change....regularly.....every year or two. Many times the single aspect that is keeping them here will be changed. If they like the game, and MMOs in general, they need to be willing (at the very least), capable, or understanding that the changes made may not be in their best interest. If that is the tipping point, so be it. They can leave. If they understand the nature, or allow themselves to enjoy multiple aspects of the game, they likely won't leave. Also keep in mind a lot of this backlash, as it always is, is a whole lot of empty threats and lip service to try to get what they personally want, not for what is best for the game as an entity. After 7 years, BW has seen it all to often to believe it's anything more than a bunch of boys crying wolf.
You've noticed the decline in population that led to server merges right? These choices are decreasing membership and will continue to do so.
Everything in the game that is left to do is old content. If the repeatable nature of the content is not enjoyable players will leave. As they always have. This tipping point is much, much worse than galactic command and galactic command saw a large loss of players.
If the game loses the players willing to play 'old' content as well then there is nothing left to play.
Our 'new' content. Uprisings. A profound failure. Name anyone who plays them regularly, or when not pursuing either a conquest objective (repeatable prod to do the uprising) or an achievement (single prod to do the uprising), ONE new Operation(this is at least repeat prod but not something most will want to make the sole point of their playing a game), Companion returns that are TWO SENTENCES long(single prod, at best, to do the return). Two Flashpoints that few will play once they have their achievements and all the decorations they want from those flashpoints (Small prod to repeat).
Repeating content is a key reason to play at this point in the life of the game. A large portion of that repeat-ability has been removed.
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You weren't playing the game how you wanted to in the first place? Perhaps that's the root cause of your frustration.
I think you miss his/her point. Conquest was probably the 'last' thing keeping them engaged in the game. Conquest 'drove' their choices, AMONG the things they liked to do.
Now it doesn't. AND it is slower than watching paint dry to get points.
I can't believe anyone enjoys the revamp unless they simply believe that 'sticking it' to their (perception of) the elites/large guilds' is worth their personal pain. Particularly since it actually is sticking it to EVERYBODY with a system that forces people who prefer to play socially in groups to do only individual activities. And the majority of the (very few) repeatable objectives are solo.
I can tell you that a number of people who only are able to play weekends, yet contribute to conquest, logged on and looked at the goals and simply ran the 'very few' groupable activities in conquest and didn't even 'attempt' to make their personal conquest under this system.
I've personally calmed down. I'm waiting till Tuesday because I said I would if they gave me a plan. If at the very least the huge bugginess of point awards are not fixed then I walk away. I'm not the only person who feels this way.
And I 'do' know what it takes to plan, code and execute a release, within large systems, at a large company. I'm a retired programmer. No, they can't 'fix' this overnight. They have a very bad set of code in there and 'fixing' it is going to be nigh on impossible without ripping out major portions of what they put in.
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See that is something I don't understand, the specific flashpoints listed in conquest has always been a one time deal so I had to pick which character was going to do it, so I don't understand why it has all of a sudden become a big deal now.
(example: http://dulfy.net/2014/08/07/swtor-planetary-conquests-guide/#Conquest_Death_Mark if you look under one time objective, Kuat Yards, False Emperor is only a one time objective)
It's a big issue because so little is repeatable. My guild is medium sized. We won planets by repeatable objectives. We are number two on a large yield this week, and that mostly because the patch is so buggy we have gotten points for 'things we did NOT do', and points on other targets that I am absolutely certain are NOT functioning as intended. That's part of the reason that I am hesitant to even do much in conquest this week. Most of this is not working as intended, at least in the point awards and I'd like to actually try to see if I can make the goal in a functional, working as designed, conquest system.
I am certain that there is a perception that our guild is large because we won frequently. We aren't large. We are active and have a lot of alts. We made the yield target on the large this week due to the many bugs. If the design had actually 'worked' I am pretty sure NONE of the guilds on that list would have made the yield target, even the one in first place, who actually HAS the individual account numbers that 'should' have made them able to do so.
What this new design means for us is that if we want to win we are in fact going to have to go against other medium sized OR small guilds to win planets. Guilds with actual individual member numbers that are high will exclusively win large yield. Guilds with 126 active accounts (like ours) and lots of alts are only viable, if we want to win, on medium and small yield. Pushing the majority DOWN to medium and small yield targets will lessen the likelihood that a small guild will ever take a title. It is definitely not what they planned on doing but seems to be the end result.
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Exactly I agree and feel the same way!
Same. The structure provides a direction for guild activities.
I have never, prior to this game, at this time, posted that I was leaving a game. I just left. So Bravo for the level of engagement. But..while I have some modicum of hope for the patch on Tuesday, if, as I fully expect, there is almost nothing done to address the myriad problems with the objectives and the overwhelming bugginess of the changes to conquest then my sub will be gone.
I can't even flip between alts now without others that I have done no conquest objectives on this week suddenly showing completion of tasks (that are NOT legacy completion). I have completed tasks on others and received no points. I have received points (the world boss bug) for tasks I never did. I don't pay a subscription to be a beta tester.
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Your guilds situation is exactly what the majority vote was trying to get rid of. The new system gets rid of it, or at the very least diminishes it. Large guilds do the same thing, and that was the #1 problem people voiced that needed to change, so while it affects your guild, it also negatively affects large guilds much more (as intended) and positively affects small guilds that didnt use those tactics.
The result: improved overall conquest balance= positive.
See this post is exactly MY point. The goal for those screaming for change has NEVER been to balance content. It has been to try and exclude anyone who 'IS NOT ME' from being able to participate in conquest.
They don't actually wan't balance, they just want all those pesky other people who kept 'cheating' them from winning by being social, completing activities, and generally playing the game, to go away so that without effort they can win.
The actual goal is to exclude anyone from the pitiful amount of content available to them who might get in the way of that happening.
Even Bioware isn't stupid enough to lock the large guilds out of content. They believed that what was wanted was the guild rewards. They apparently never realized it was the planetary titles.
I fully expect a proposal to pop up in this thread that any character who HAS a planetary title be excluded from participating in a conquest for that planet, and anyone WITH Galaxy Conqueror banned from participating in conquest entirely.
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Actually the "once per day per legacy" restriction helps smaller guilds far more than it harms them.
The bigger the guild the bigger the pool of characters that can run through a lockout and more points can be farmed, the previous repeatable within legacy system for OPs was the cornerstone of Large and Megaguild Conquest. strategy.
You are clearly NOT in a small guild if you think people in small guilds have one alt. Small guilds have many, many alts in their pool. Less than big guilds but many alts. That small guild can now put up points for 8 characters rather than 40. Do Math.
The large guild STILL has that larger pool of individual characters, they will STILL make more points than the guild with 8 characters. Unless all of them quit the game from this utter and complete bull, which serves no one, AND is buggy as hell.
Punitive changes are punitive. They do not inherently serve the base you 'think' they will help. Look at the overall impact. Less points to everyone means the ones with more people will STILL put up more points than the ones with less.
It serves no-one to restrict the ability to play all the created characters. There is no compelling content to 'do' so we create new alts. When they are created we want to use them. That's universal to anyone playing the game and is not restricted to the size of the guild you belong to.
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I'll pass that onto our guild, so that they can "pre-craft", too.
Everybody should be given this information.
But some people rather like to hide this information from others.
It wasn't hidden knowledge. Anyone doing crafting could look at their crafting panel, use their BRAINS and say, 'Oh, I can load up ahead of time. Just like I can do ANY crafting offline ALL THE TIME while leveling my crafters up. And you STILL don't get that the mats don't magically appear in those pre-crafters inventory. They farm them. Every Day. All the time. Not just on crafting weeks.
Doesn't matter to me anymore. I'm done with crafting. But I hope you enjoy the daily farming YOUR crafters need to do to get mats. On EVERY planet. While sending out their comps non stop when doing any other activity they can fit in while constantly farming ALL planets. Hope you didn't need those people for any group activities.
Oh wait. I need to tell you more 'secrets'. They need at least 8 50 influence comps. 9 would be better so they can use one while sending out comps. They optimally should have a life curcumstance that lets them log on their muliple crafting toons at least 5 times a day to resend comps or make intermediate components too.
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Well yes it was predictable. Also take into account that a huge part of these numbers are coming from the 10k bug and the other conclusion to easily draw is that even the lowered planet targets (next week?) will mean that less guilds than ever will receive the conquest rewards at all. Which just shows how badly they missed the mark on giving more guilds the opportunity for the rewards.
Anyone who meets the goal whatever their place gets the rewards. So not sure where you are going there. But yes, the ones getting the title for the planet won't change.
The conquest goals they implemented didn't work even as they intended them to. They failed to award points randomly due to their buggy nature. The design choices they made that were punitive to large guilds affected small guilds even more than large guilds.
The changes to crafting, which are not going to even be looked at until after 5.9 are going to effectively kill crafting. If they intended to do that, good job. I wasted a lot of time and effort over many years now getting my crafters to where they are. I also know that I have no intention of gathering mats for ALL levels all the time and that is what it would take to craft now and make war supplies. I'll make augments for myself and beyond that I'm done with crafting. I'm far from the only crafter who has made that decision. That decision will impact the gtn and the market. I tend to think it would be negative but who knows, I could be wrong. I've certainly been wrong before.
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I'm sure they think they're helping in their own way. I expect that the devs will get conquest where it needs to be in time. Everybody has different levels of patience.
If we didn't call them on it they wouldn't fix anything. My patience with a complete failure to test this change, beyond dev testing, which I know from experience is way too small a dataset to test anything, is very low.
I agree they are moving in the right direction. They wouldn't be doing this without all the screaming of this week.
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Eric, you are going in the right direction. I do think the things you outlined will help.
I do need assurances that you will FIX the bugs in what you did put in. We need to reliably GET the points when we complete a conquest objective.
And .. there is no really nice way to say this. You've made it clear WE are the Beta Test for this change and that isn't something that pleases me.
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I just did a lockout on a character for the day. I had not done the lockout yet today on any character. I got the lockout points. I then did the Ilum Heroic. I had not done it obviously. Since it is a weekly and I could pick it up! I did not get points for the Heroic.
We are having to log on every fracking character and make sure we are not bugged showing complete on OBJECTIVES WE HAVE NOT DONE <that are not fracking legacy> And then just not do that objective for that character!!!
I honestly wonder if there was ANY testing of this thing at all. The bugs are haphazard and completely random and change throughout the day randomly resetting. It is BEYOND frustrating.
I honestly do not think there is a <insert your favorite invective> point to even attempting to do conquest this week.
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I will start with the preface that I have ywt to spend any consideravle time on conqiest since the update, but the first thing I thought of whej I read your post is that you are disappointed and/or frustrated with the conquest system because you immediately went i to it with the same mindset from the old conqiest knowing full well that it had been changed.
When a system is restructured, it is your responsibility to restructure your understanding of how it works, your approach, and the expected outcome.
Give it more than one day.
Furthermore, if your guild was affected quite a bit using multiple toons to improve chances of completing and/or competing, then much larger guilds were affected exponentially more.
Actually not really on the exponentially more. It depends on whether that large guild is large because they have lots of alts OR if they have that many individual accounts. The ones with more individual accounts are far less affected by this change. Again, it hurts alts no matter the size of the guild. It reminds me a bit of the original launch of Galactic Command when their response to the outcry that it was very hard to level up more than one alt was 'you play alts?'. This after they had just forced anyone doing DvL into making 8 alts.
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**** if I know...I can't figure it out either.
The problem is that the conquest is buggy enough it is hard to tell. Ops for example. I've seen multiple scenarios. One guildie after a run switched to another character and after checking all of them determined that she now had a last boss completion on every character in her legacy. This is outside conquest parameters, she was simply locked out of the boss. Yes, she filed a bug report.
Other guildies can run an Op, which on Dulfy is listed a daily repeatable(and is silver), multiple times with no characters showing complete on the item and garnering points each time.
Other guildies show complete after one run but if they switch characters a few times then it changes to incomplete again.
Some it shows complete on for all characters in the legacy and does not change from that status until the next day.
I'm baffled over what the objective is 'supposed' to do at this point.
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...*rolls eyes* Here we go again with the legacy lockout...
You do realize that the old Gree conquest had "legacy" lockouts just as this one does right??
http://dulfy.net/2014/08/07/swtor-planetary-conquests-guide/#Conquest_Relics_of_the_Gree <-----OLD
http://dulfy.net/2018/03/20/swtor-5-8-conquest-guide-and-schedule/ <----NEW
You're just throwing that out there because now it's come to your attention...
Bugs yes, that's bad needs fixed. One time objectives (Or legacy lockouts as you want to call them.) is perfectly fine as that system has been working for years now.
Wait. You said earllier in the thread YOU were able to repeat those 'legacy lockouts' so clearly everyone who can't is lying. Which side of your face is talking now?
Can you repeat the OPs for points or not? You said you could. You said those of us who can't were lying. Which one is it now?
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WHERE on earth did ANY of YOU get that it's not rewarding for Op of the day?!
I got conquest points (1875) for every toon I ran through EV last night!
That is a FREAKING daily people per toon.
Even Dulfy says it's a repeatable daily! http://dulfy.net/2018/03/20/swtor-5-8-conquest-guide-and-schedule/
Where is there "Legacy Conquest Goals"?
I've yet to see that. Even Dufly doesn't even mention it.
You might have gotten points. Good for you. It is bugged as **** and doesn't reward any but the first character for me and many others.
And yes, I did something about it. I went back to my 5 years dormant LOTRO account and reactivated it. I checked when my sub renews. It's 4/4. I am unsubbing on 4/3 if there isn't at least a plan on the forums for correcting the MANY bugs, the Ops awards one being among them.
My account creation date is 3/5/12. I have been continuously subscribed with no lapses through every serve merge, class 'fix', and adjustment, Command crates and everything else. This is the end of my rope. If they fix it, fine. If they don't I'm done.
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Just an FYI, since some were whining about Ops being Once Legacy only, that's not true. Each toon I've run tonight has gotten Ops conquest.
Then it is bugged. I have only gotten points on one character and I've healed 7 Ops now trying to help others in my guild get points.
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These changes are to give guilds like mine and many many others that never had a chance in hell in winning a chance now. We are a raiding guild with casual players that have real lives. This helps us succeed now in Conquest. That was the aim of this change was at. Not you guys with guilds of over 1000 people in your guild with a 2nd or 3rd or more alt guilds.
Thank you Bioware for listening to the common casual players!
How exactly did these changes help you? Name ONE small guild on the board even on the small yield right now. . A guild with 20 accounts and no alts is STILL going to do nothing toward getting a title.
They could have easily added the 'everybody gets a prize' mechanic without doing THIS.
I have 53 alts. No, I don't get conquest on every one of them. I do generally get it on about 14 though. I am absolutely NOT playing 24/7 for a week to do that now. Locking too many objectives down to 'ONE time per Legacy' is bad for anyone who has alts. And not everyone who has alts is in a large guild.
I was in a guild that had approximately 25 accounts and I had the same number of alts. We made the board then too. We didn't win, but we made the board. We couldn't do that now in the same situation.
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What if the plan is a fix after 5.9. Will you still stick around or have faith they will change it to include everything that was removed.
Not without a detailed explanation of what they are doing in the change. A nebulous 'we will fix it after 5.9 will NOT cut it.
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Story and PvP are two very compelling reasons to play this game. Grinding Conquest to make some guild ship look a little bit nicer is not. This is not EVE.
I'll be glad to let you pay my subscription so you can decide that for me.
Where shall I send the bill?And Conquest IS NOT for making a guild ship look nice. You can get encryptions without ever doing conquest in a meaningful way.
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Yes they do and I hope they do. It's not that we play only for conquest but conquest gives, or gave, a really nice structure to the end game.
This.
And to the poster who thinks if you are only playing for conquest you are playing for the wrong reason. Then I suppose you also think anyone only playing for story is playing for the wrong reason, or anyone only playing to pvp is playing for the wrong reason. And you pay all those people's subscriptions so you can decide what the 'right' reason is also. Correct?
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I'd like to know if we are 'supposed' to be able to do an OP more than once per LEGACY. My characters only got points on the first one. Two other people in my guild have gotten points each run they have done. One of the two ways is bugged clearly. Which one?
And I promise you YAS (which I am a member of) does not think this setup is hunky dory. Yes, we are putting up points. We are extremely unhappy.
I have a large number of alts. Most people I know do. They like playing them. One time objectives per legacy are not a thrilling thing to see. I'm fine with not doing lockouts anymore. Give me something ELSE I CAN do on all those characters.
Where shall I send the bill?
Conquest Feedback and Upcoming Changes
in General Discussion
Posted
Honestly it sounds much more like you are self centered here. Because anyone who might have succeeded under the old system is someone who needs to be put down now. Frankly that is exactly how Bioware gets away with these sub par and frankly divisive changes to systems. By turning players on each other.
Nevermind my two cents though, I'm just a ghost waiting for the 4th when my non renewal of my subscription disallows me from posting.