This too! I notice it in general as well sometimes, on every class. Additionally, on my mains, sage/assassin, I've always noticed a similar problem specifically tied to force speed. Because of it I've mostly gotten used to waiting a second and a half after a guardian leaps me, before force speeding away, but sometimes I still forget and run for my life, only for Egress to fail completely and my character to spazz out again and again until the game finally decides that I, in fact, have gone nowhere, and it is this juggernaut's/marauder's Divine Right to kill me. As for this-- All those abilities are part of the abilities on the game, which are specifically built into the game, whether they are overpowered or balanced or not. (And in point of fact, I've seen numerous operatives complaining about several of these things.) The bug on the roll where the server cannot decide where operatives are is not a function that was intended for the operative roll and never was, because such a function would be stupid. Again, its not a matter of "overpowered" or "balanced". It's a matter of something in the game literally not working right, in coding or in engine or who knows what. And as my signature states, I regularly play operative.... and no I am most certainly not complaining about basic roll ability, as the ability is meant to work. We need it! At least with all the movement changes and buffs that have come into the game in the last 1-2 years. You know I really didn't notice the issue when I was the one playing the class, so maybe thats the problem. On my screen the roll is represented just fine. A-okay right? Not for most everyone else. Though it does seem like for a few people the latency/engine issue is less pronounced; every once in a while I get yoinked on my operative just inches from the goal line into the top catwalk fire-- something that I can never do on my own powertech when the roles are reversed, because the game tells me I can't see the operative, even when I'm spamming the pull. Then he materializes out of nowhere, after scoring. That being said, the people who don't experience the latency/engine issue on terrain changed roll are in the minority. Most people I've talked to agree that it happens to them all the time in HB. Thanks for the defense, stridemachine

Actually, I was playing a sentinel.... >.> I agree that Juggernauts are very strong. Not sure if I would go so far as "overpowered", but that's a whole other argument.

Coming to you now, fresh from a midbie bracket Huttball (brimming with rage) to post this here: Devs have to know about rollbug and leap bugs by now. They have to; I've seen forum posts before to that effect. Why are they not being fixed or addressed by now???? I don't think I've heard a single official word on the subject... yet they are very, very clearly broken. Specifically, the un-targetable effect operatives (and snipers?) get when rolling off an edge. From what I understand the server has no idea where they are, so they literally vanish off the face of the earth for just enough time to get across the goal line, sans counter (ie leap, pull, etc).... and secondly, the bug where a guardian/sentinel uses his leap ability, it goes on cooldown, yet you don't actually reach the person you leapt to- either going nowhere, or halfway to the target. Ugh, the disgust I feel at this moment just can't be expressed. Maybe they're very difficult issues to fix; I don't know. Does that mean that they're just accepted as "part of how the game works"...? In my opinion, that is utterly ridiculous. At least the effect is less crucial and or infuriating- or perhaps simply less visible- in the majority of warzone maps. But in a competitive fast scoring huttball that otherwise would've been an adrenaline pumped, highly enjoyable and fairly rare experience in pvp today, my and the rest of my team's ability to compete was cut off at the knees. Simply because they had 2-3 operatives (plus heals) and we had 4-5 warrior classes. Not being able to leap to a scoundrel that has mysteriously vanished, spamming my leap keybind only for "cannot see target" to repeatedly blaze across your screen is beyond frustrating and just plain shouldn't happen. Then later, being in the pit staring right at two irresponsible juggernauts killing a teammate at the enemy goal line, hoping to get LoS off for the leap and succeeding, setting me up for the sixth and winning score--- only for my character to fall midair for no reason, landing on some nonexistent target at the ledge, and fall back down into the pit to be murdered by the ranged that have caught up behind me. This... shouldn't happen. I have accepted it and played with it for a long time, and thankfully, my preferred classes don't suffer from this. But what about people who main sentinels/juggernauts/marauders/guardians? We should not lose a huttball because the bugs in the game favor a certain class which the enemy happens to have in stacks. We should lose, or win, a huttball, because they played their abilities out better than we did and or used better tactics. Each class has abilities that have certain effects and strengths, especially in huttball, and some classes are inherently weak in the map. Bugs like vanish-roll and false leap have nothing to do with this strength weakness matter- they are not part of the balance of the game and shouldn't be accepted, they should be fixed. Huttball has long been one of my favorite warzones, and having what would've been a really awesome game ruined by bugs (and the sh** talking from the enemy team that followed, thinking that they won because they were awesome) is just... maddening. Am I alone in this? Am I the only person that thinks these things should have been ironed out or at least acknowledged as an issue long ago?

On a different note, in searching for a definitive developer statement regarding the nature of the lethality/ruffian spec, I came across a far more interesting idea: The dev on the livestream with the community manager for 3.0, I forgot his name- mentioned a possibility in passing that I found intriguing. He was answering a question related to the change about the buff operatives once received from maintaining an upper hand, instead of spending it; prior to 3.0 one had to always keep one up, to maintain a small % buff to both damage and healing. That was removed, and for healers, they now get a short healing-increased buff after consuming an upper hand--- and he mentioned the possibility of later adding in a similar buff for damage dealing operatives. This sounds really interesting to me, and could potentially add some additional complexity or depth to the way the class plays. If using an upper hand for cull/brutal shots gives you a short damage increase buff, depending on the reasonable length of said buff, it could (in my opinion) put lethality in a much better place. You could combine this, with the right timing, with other damage buffs inherent in the spec, to exploit the maximum output , and in turn be vulnerable, as other specs are, to interference (stun/knockback etc) in that crucial window. Maybe you would brutal shots first, before sanguinary shot, to get the buff, then utilize sanguinary, and get a brutal shots in afterwards with some extra umph. Not sure the effect this would have on pve. Thats a question for the theory crafters, and a question of just how much of a damage buff in number terms it would have to be; which could very well result in an answer that would make the change in pvp negligible, unfortunately. But food for thought, regardless. Oh, livestream link: http://www.twitch.tv/swtor/b/593067676 The pertinent section is at around 1:36. Maybe starts at 1:35, not entirely sure.

I am not calling for other dots to be nerfed to lethality's level. I am saying that (like many others have) something should be done to make it more viable and have some sort of damage buff, whether from buffed DoTs or slightly beefing up other abilities. Maybe, Quarast, you could realize that with - what is it, four now?- other people having vocally disagreed with you, that your opinion of Lethality as "not a dot spec" is simply your opinion, one that so far does not appear to be shared by the majority.... and as such, that it just might be arrogant to claim it as fact. I won't argue further on this, though there is much more that could be said, because I don't want the debate to devolve into the unpleasantness that it seems to be headed for. And the longer this goes the more this argument really seems like just a question of semantics. Hmm, I suppose the fact that I was even arguing against it in the first place could be tied to ego. What strange places hubris takes us to. Vehement internet quibbles over who's right and who's wrong about something that takes place in virtual game space and governed by rules that exist only there. Rules that are defined and that are created by an entirely different person(s) than either of us. So really I guess the developers are the ones who decide what Lethality is and isn't, because they're the ones that made it and maintain it.

Exactly. Thank you, Whoojoo and Tac. If all that doesn't prove it, he's hopeless and as mentioned we should move on to more productive discussion than continually trying to prove to one guy whether Lethality is or isn't a dotspec.

You're not even coming up with new ways to present your argument or new evidence or examples to back your claim...

I have to wonder if it would be such a bad thing if they buffed active abilities such as point blank blast or cull instead of the dots, actually. This could only mean better burst, as I tend to agree (in part) with the claims of many that dot damage is primarily "fluff" damage to pad your numbers. But honestly with the way lethal/ruffian plays right now, it should have PBB and/or cull tweaked for higher damage yield as well as increasing the damage of corrosive grenade/vital shot. If overperforming specs like Hatred (and AP powertechs, but that's another barrel of fish) are brought down to more reasonable levels, then maybe only one of those buffs would be necessary to even the playing field. Claiming that Hatred/Madness should not be nerfed down to Lethality's level just proves what a sad state Lethality is in: you don't want your spec to be at Lethality's level. Who would? Who does want to play Ruffian/Lethality in the state it is in? Only the loyal players who truly enjoy the spec itself for how it plays, despite its sub-par status, and these are the players that are in the forums stating the truth: Lethality/Ruffian needs a buff. I haven't played the discipline doggedly enough to be considered one of these, but I hear what they're saying and have to agree with the claims they make based on their expertise. More than one person is saying the dot damage is too low. More than one person is agreeing that the ramp up time leaves lethality dead in the water and well behind in the dps race. Do you even play lethality, Quarast? If not, I have to wonder what you are trying to accomplish in this thread other than ensuring your own preferred spec is the one that stays on top. (Assuming Bioware is listening.)

So are you claiming that Hatred assassins are a dot spec? Because if you are, your other claim (ie Lethality is not a dot spec) makes no sense. Hatred assassins are the melee variant of Hatred sorcs. Both assassins and sorcs had the same name for the skill tree for a reason prior to 3.0. So you claim that Hatred assassins and Madness sorcs are both dot specs. But Lethality operatives and Virulence snipers are not both dot specs-- according to you only Virulence snipers are. Seriously? I'm starting to wonder why we're trying to argue about this with you anymore.

Everything Stridemachine just said. Also stupefied that you can claim Lethality/Ruffian as "not a dot spec." Refer to the following side by side comparison of abilities. (Forgive the following mixed terms; I'm more familiar with Rep. terminology.) Hatred: |||||| Lethality/Ruffian: creeping terror (root) |||||| corrosive grenade (30% slow) discharge |||||| vital shot death field (+ death mark) |||||| sanguinary shots (adds extra weapon damage to brutal shots, per dot ?) BONUS: crushing darkness-- |||||| [devs removed automatically applied weaker versions of dots] initial hit + dot damage non-dot related damage: thrash (spammable, CD procs) |||||| shiv (6s cd, tac. adv.) leeching strike |||||| point-blank blast. assassinate procs |||||| brutal shots Lined up the comparisons as best I could in a short time, and in pretty much every category, Hatred has what could even be termed a massive advantage. Aside from that, since that isn't the main point right now.... if Hatred is a dot spec and Lethality isn't.... well they seem pretty comparable to me, dot to dot, ability to ability. The disciplines function differently because they are meant to and it would be dumb to have repeats with simply different names and animations. But claiming Lethality is less of a dot spec than Hatred? .... Moving from the "dot spec" debate a little now, I wonder how often you can use brutal shots, vs how often assassinate procs. On my sin it seems like I nearly always have it up, and if it isn't, leeching strike will be. If you have played both ACs extensively, which it really seems like you couldn't have, you would feel the difference in both non-dot damage ability power and the effectiveness of the dots themselves. (Not to mention the clear superiority of death field as a dot spread, and the fact that its death mark effect applies to all targets struck: not the single target affected by sanguinary shots, buffing the "fluff" damage hatred does to non primary targets.) The only thing Lethality has in clear superiority over Hatred is the self healing. I wouldn't even say it has better mobility than assassins, considering force speed (egress) and (root) knockback. But honestly the times I regret the lack of self healing capability on my assassin, compared to my ruffian, are virtually nil. I have a tool for everything as a sin, allowing me not only to live, but unlike a ruffian, to dps at the same time. And unless I am going up against a really solid team, one of those many utility cooldowns are usually available for me and off cd when I need them. Those are my thoughts.

I'd hate to be a dev right now. I feel like everywhere people are picking up their torches and pitchforks, and I admit I've been eyeing mine-- the "progress" of the game seems to be going only downhill, and its frustrating, As issues and bugs pop up like weeds, all of us are looking towards the gardeners expectantly. Problem is the gardening of this game happens behind a brick wall, and while they might be working really, really hard, there's no way for us to know. Meanwhile what we hear is, "We're doing really hard stuff and doing really good things!" and this thread's "The class works, rearrange your idea of how its supposed to work and just accept that it does." And then---- then we see the finished product, which, I'm pretty sure the majority from most/all forums would agree, is just.... ...more weeds. More problems. More dissatisfaction. To continue with the analogy, maybe its not the devs fault, strictly speaking. Maybe the soil, game engine, whatever, just spawns weeds around every corner. Fine. That's possible. It feels less and less probable, but its possible. But the fact remains that it is really difficult to enjoy the game in its current state. Just because its hard to deal with doesn't mean you can get off the hook for not dealing with it. I've taken more and longer breaks from ToR, always taking longer to come back each time, each time hoping, hoping, that something might've changed and things might be looking up. How long can a game keep going with all the rampant frustration and anger that comes after every further change that comes out? It feels like erosion- an erosion that the powers that be keep answering by what honestly seem to be false statements and false placations, and by more cartel packs shoved down the throats of people who are still wandering around the game blindly eating it all up. What happens when too many of us wake up? Most of us love Star Wars, if not the game still, then at least the franchise. We want the game to be fun and playable. We want to believe the devs who make promises about viability and transparency and listening to player feedback. Do something! Please.

So, you said that, then you said this...... I agree that stealth isn't a true gap closer- it only applies to opening up combat and however often you use your force cloak offensively instead of defensively (which in most games in my experience, isn't often.) But you just invalidated your own post about 'shadows/sins previously having no gap closer' by your statement that 10-15 second cooldown is what qualifies an ability as a proper one. So by your own standards, the utility-reduced version of force speed IS, in fact, a good gap closer. Which I heartily agree with! (Who was dumb again?... I'm confused now.) -- On a different but related note, I wanted to go into the earlier post about cooldown comparisons: The point he was making is that the ranged classes are balanced as they are. And if you are going to compare (ranged!) cc abilities between ranged classes and melee class(es), the ranged should, reasonably and obviously, have superior ranged cc/mez over the melee. Their entire class functions on the principle, generally speaking, of maintaining max distance as much as possible, and this is the main reason (but not the only reason) why they have such abilities. Ranged should have better ranged cc, and if it is deemed melee needs better anti-kiting tools, so be it. Continuing with that, here is my claim: a root is an anti-kiting tool. A tool to combat those aforementioned classes that try to maintain their max distance. A cc/mez is more than just anti kiting; it is (as has been said) an anti everything. Just like a gunslinger sees a healer healing the target he is trying to burn and opts to use an 8second ranged cc, and tries to burn down their target before the healer is up again, now a shadow can do this. So he opens on a target from stealth, with massive burst, and a healer pops up in his vision, attempting to save his target from doom. He now simply chucks a lightsaber and has a good chance to burst his target down completely before the healer is up. I'm pretty sure that's not how deception is supposed to work. In my opinion, its meant to work one of two ways: burst the person through the healing, or switch targets to the healer. And if you die trying to get to the healer, next time you respawn, you go straight for that healer first, so they can't heal your targets. You're not supposed to be able to deal with healers with a flick of your wrist as a melee. You're supposed to hunt them down and kill them- or, team up with the ranged (or other melee) to pressure them back and then kill the dps... who are now healerless, with their savior running off incontinent to save themselves. Its been a while since I played deception as it was never my favorite spec to begin with, but if the burst is still good (or better) this means you can burst targets down with near impunity: just a flick of your wrist and the healer trying to save someone is taken out for (probably) the rest of the time it takes to burst them down-- because you ARE a burst class. Obviously cooldowns on your enemy's part can combat this, but if they don't have them? This is an argument I've seen elsewhere in other forum threads, but it assumes that the devs should and do balance classes' BASELINE damage and abilities with the expectation that your enemy uses a cooldown, or dies. I do not agree with that. Both offensive and defensive cooldowns are tactical abilities. These are above, and separate from, basic rotation. And therein, I believe, lies my main problem with low slash. In its present and previous state is not strictly a cooldown, as all other stuns in the game are (and should be.) It is part of your rotation. But now people are going to be using it as a cooldown, just as flashbang, (instant) whirlwhind, etc, are used as cooldowns-- only they're going to be doing it every 15 seconds. "But its half the duration!" Then make it half the cooldown. Which would be double its current amount. I disagree that it should be a full 30 meters-- I'd say for a melee class that already has force speed (with optional cooldown reduction and effect duration augments) maybe 20 meters is more than sufficient. One thing I wonder is if they're putting this in to combat powertechs, with their super-buffed hold the line/hydraulic overrides. In which case, great! Yes! Powertechs can't dance circles around deception as much, awesome. But.... then there's the rest of us non powertechs that can be subjected to the same thing.

A bit extreme to call someone a horrible human being for being legitimately frustrated and disgusted by the VERY apparent level of ineptitude Bioware keeps on showing us again and again... though this might be the pinnacle of it. (Of course they could always outdo themselves and top this fiasco next 'balance' patch.) I wonder what else in Swtor's dark history could be compared to this? Naked bolster? The fate that befell Ilum open world pvp?....

I think the remaining issues with decorations are known but I'm not sure if this specific issue has been mentioned: It's a planter purchased from the Decoration Vendor, for 1k credits, listed as Planter: Rishi Palm Tree (Medium) and it has a clear appearance in the preview window. You can buy it, and unlock it, but as you do so the text inexplicably registers "You have unlocked a stronghold decoration: Planter: Yavin Jungle Fern" which is something entirely different. I've wasted a good many credits testing this, especially after the Revan update became live since I didn't preorder in time for early access (thinking that it was an early access issue.) But no, the item is completely bugged. Wondering how many other items are still completely bugged and when its all going to be ironed out.

A recurring thought while I (much to my surprise) became obsessed with housing and decorating was, ' it would be so awesome if I could display old outfits here.' This was partially satisfied by putting old outfits, that I spent way too much money getting at the time, on my companions and setting them out; but unless I'm on the actual character that owns the house, the companions appear in holographic form and in their original base outfits, not the ones I designed. It'd be a great way to make old outfits- and alts- relevant and exciting. (I may or may not have 17+ characters that now have far less replay value with the new discipline system.) As mannequins, in a way, I suppose. So those abandoned styles and looks don't go to waste. Just another possible way to show off your creativity- and your legacy, as a bonus. Having your 'extended family' or 'allies' or whatever you have them set as guarding various parts of your house in full battle regalia just sounds awesome to me personally. I admit its mainly out of a desire to show off my outfits and character designs. Practically speaking not sure how this would be done. It would be even more awesome though, if you could activate like a 'holoreplica' cartel item on your present character, in whatever pose they are in (ie weapons out- or maybe even mid-emote!) and set it out in the house. Or even just allow you to place your alts around the house in the same way as you can companions/pets/mounts etc. Any/all of this may be entirely impossible to script though, I have no idea, but it sure does sound cool to me. I'd spend oodles of cartel coins setting up my characters all over. (Amendment: I would be far less interested in just a holographic projection of my character, instead I meant an actual replica as the character looks in-game. Perhaps moving even, if possible, with the animation length the same as a typical emote. It really would open up so many options for populating one's house, making it dynamic and alive, and adding another layer to apply your creativity to. Show off all those emotes and dances you've stocked up and all the money you've spent on cartel outfits!)