AGx-Spike
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Posts posted by AGx-Spike
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I think the problem (and by problem I mean complaining, deserving or not) is the fact that you don't need to be a competent player to out heal DPS but you do need to be a competent player (or 2v1) to take down a healer.
Especially in a 1v1 situation, just to even annoy a healer, you need to time your CC's and stuns just right. There's also the fact that the healers themselves get CC's to use on you and bubbles which makes it harder to take them down. Can it be done? Yes, I do it all the time but I'm not perfect (I play Shadow btw) and I often screw up and hit the wrong button when I mean to CC or sometimes I hit some lag or (for whatever reason, and this happens a lot) Force Wave doesn't go off when I hit the button. When that happens the entire battle can feel like a reset except I don't have any CC's to use for a while. You have to be damn near perfect or outgear the healer.
On the other hand, the healer can just stand there and spam heals, stun and snare whenever possible. A good healer will use the terrain as well but for the most part healers (especially better geared ones) can stand there and ignore me and heal themselves and the other guys.
I'm not here to cry nerf because I like the challenge of perfection. I play tank classes anyway so I know I'm not meant to burn down healers (when I do play infiltration though it seems to be incredibly easy) but I do understand that there is a bit of a problem and hopefully 1.2 will rectify some of it.
For you WoW players, remember when Pally was /faceroll? Healers in SWTOR are in the same boat. While not nearly as OP it requires little to no skill at all to do while combating them does. Not fair for a role that probably the most important in PvP.
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Yes, lets remove all things that aren't straight up DPS /rollseyes
I agree. If you remove them Consular is all but a dead class. They simply need to reduce the duration on them. I don't think any class needs to have more than 2 stuns while it seems like most have 2+ and then some snares. I play a shadow and with grenades I can stun two damn people at once. I can force life one while I **** the other then escape, depending on the class and how well the person plays. Thats stupid.
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Too many knockbacks in this game... too many healers... too many shields...
It's pretty well 'matched' actually. Everyone has something to complain about.
Actually, no. There ARE too many stuns in this game. What makes it worse is that a lot of them have 6+ second durations and extremely short cooldowns. I won't pick on any one class because it's pretty universal. PvP in this game is all about who can stun first rather than skill and knockbacks seem to be unbalanced. I've been knocked back extremely large distances at times and others not much at all by the same person. Even worse, some knockbacks come with a snare. Is that really necessary? Classes like Guardian/Jugg really feel like tanks. A lot of time standing still or walking slowly while others beat you to death.
I really think they need to tone down the durations on the stuns. Resolve means nothing when you're killed through 2 stuns. Additionally, they should hide the resolve bar. Make them actually rely on some sort of skill or strategy rather than their stuns.
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For me it was joining that WZ that has all the doors (I don't know the name) and having to fight against a premade made up of Sorcs and Bounty Hunter while my Pug had zero healers and no ranged classes (guardian, sentinal, shadow-fest). It was brutal. We couldn't get kills to save our lives. The only thing worse than this was playing the same (or very similar) premade in Hutball later on the same day. Ranged classes own that WZ offensively (I shouldn't need to explain why) and my team wasn't very smart. I won't claim to be an awesome PvP player but im smart enough to play hutball strategically. All we tried to do was get kills on classes we couldn't GET TO to kill. It was frustrating.
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We need to get a real serious petition rolling for stuff like this because BW won't do anything about it. They will keep following the same failing model that WoW has when it comes to PvP. What makes WoW different is it has so many players.
BW has the opportunity to just stop and fix it. PvE is easy, just make more quests, FPs, Operations and so on. PvP is more tricky and is what a lot of people come for. THe three WZ's have gotten old and ilum died before I even got a chance to want to enjoy it.
I really hope they read this and take it into consideration. I'm 45 right now and all I see being able to do going forward are those same boring WZ's and ganking other players because there's no other real pull for PvP. I don't WANT to gank but I joined a PvP server and my PvP experiences are limited to seeing another player once in a blue moon and WZ's.
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So far I've noticed that the best female companions that are romancible are never healers. Vette, Kira, Nadia. Kira and Vette have awesome personalities but you almost never want to use them over a healer. You just force yourself to. I'd live to make either of them a healer. Sure kills are slower but I'm almost always more efficient with a Healer than with a second DPS. Typically speaking, I don't need the extra DPS as much as I'd rather have a good healer.
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"All good PvPers"
Speak for yourself.
Valor 72, full battlemaster "the hard way" and I welcome the changes. Player vs player should be just that .. not player vs gear.
Good PvP players will love the even playing field to really shine, bad PvPer's will be show up to be gear whoring muppets.
I hate gear grinds in PvP, heck I'm not found of gear grinds in PvE either. Cosmetic *looks cool* stuff should be the rewards for rank / progression. Not stat points. IMO.
Well said because that pisses me off about MMO's as well, especially PvP oriented ones. The mark of someone truely skilled is the display of said skill. What we'll see now is just how "good" these PvPers are.
I feel bad that you spent so much time grinding so you could play poorly and still beat people but that time's over.
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Game doesn't seem to balance the teams at all. That said, I still don't hate being forced to play against premades. I don't think they should try to force premades to face premades. There are a lot less premades than there are solo's, so queue times would be so much slower for premades if they did.
The only time I've had serious trouble with premades was yesterday (one of which im not even sure was a premade).
The first group was full of healers. I mean 5-6 at least, on that WZ with the doors. We had no chance and being a Tank class all I could do was harass them while they ran around healing each other.
The second group, same WZ, was full of ranged classes (Sorcs, Bounty Hunters, etc) while my team had mostly melee classes (Guardians, Sent's, Shadows) and almost NO healers. We were getting chewed up because we couldn't get to the enemy and when we did there were always multiple CC's. We could only win by 2v1 the enemy which is hard to do in PUGs because people refust to work together.
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I'm thoroughly confused right now. The last WZ I did (I forget the name, the one with the doors and the datacore) I planted the first bomb, opened the bridge, planted the second bomb, dropped the force field to the last area and then got the data core. Defense round no bombs were ever planted and yet somehow the scoreboard said I got zero (0) points for "Objectives".
Am I just confused about what qualifies for points there or was that a glitch?
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My only argument against the OP is the complaints about the instants. I have no problem with it. Lightning SHOULD travel faster than a rock. Its F***ing LIGHTNING! If it did anything else it wouldn't make sense. Besides, what's wrong with a few faction differences? I wouldn't mind playing an MMO where each faction had completely different classes. Take Jugg's away from Empire and take Commando from Republic. I wouldn't care one bit.
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Point is, as we were comparing defensive abilities, Sins *have* Self Healing which is fairly strong.
So, your counter to the fact that the ability to self heal, however powerful, requires multiple procs to pull off and is easily interrupted by damn near every class (if you're playing one that has no knockback or stun, I don't feel sorry for you), is that they "have" it? You might as well tell BW to remove Project. It can be powerful under the right circumstances, does that mean we shouldn't have it just because we're competent enough to play to our classes strengths?
I urge you to go play a Shadow or Assassin. You'll love it but you'll see all the glaring weaknesses. I see them in Guardan/Jugg and Sent/Maraud because I've played them.
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I'm a sage.
I prepared myself for a nerf, I knew it was likely coming, though I really didn't expect it to be as brutal as it is.
Now for shadows - why are they not touched?
In my honest opinion, the one class that needed a nerf more than any other was tank shadow/assassins.
Reasoning for this :
1) 5 second immunity (on most moves in the game) on 45 second cool down
2) High single target DPS
3) Remove the reason for anyone to spec either of the other tanks
4) Every shadow I know now goes tank spec - if someone is looking for a DPS build, they are advised to go the tank spec.
Hell, why wouldn't they? It has incredibly high defences and still high damage, with a channelled move that can't be interrupted when procced. High utility, the highest survivability, stealth to get away, sprint... Am I missing anything?
What was behind this decision? Where is the balance between PVE and PVP? Are these changes based on who QQed the most?
If anyone can construct a logical argument that opposes this line of thought please present it. I'm currently at an utter loss to why I'd go anything but a tank shadow currently in PVP.
Have you PLAYED a Shadow/Assassin? The reason people tell other people to play the tank spec is because the other ones are bad (for PvP anyway, IMO). When they say Shadow/Assassin is a "glass cannon" they aren't joking. Sure the DPS is high but any competent DPS will drop us like a bad habit. Put a DoT on us and we're screwed. If they buffed the other specs, maybe shifted some of the abilitys within tree's around, maybe we'd use the other specs. I wouldn't cuz I play a tank in every MMO I play but I'm sure the others would pick up steam.
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Because if you can, you will be able to dominate a healing sorcerer in 1.2.
Force bending (the buff applied upon casting the HoT) is redesigned in 1.2 to no longer decrease the cast time of dark infusion (the 2.5 second "big" heal) by 1s.
Every dark infusion (the only heal that actually heals enough) will be full 2.5 cast time (pre-alacrity).
Without a percentage damage reduction cooldown, the only "reliable heal" is bubble, which we know is on a debuff cooldown.
Lets not pretend that chaining double 1.5 dark infusions was not the only thing keeping us alive against 1 single DPS.
Oh, and consumption will always consume HP now (the healing talent to remove health consumption was removed).
So if you want to recover force (assuming you live long enough without 1.5s dark infusions), you will only put yourself in further jeopardy by using a GCD AND expend HP.
Thank god I rerolled marauder (level 49 baby), which was BUFFED, hahahah.
Single healers were able to heal 2-3 people, plus themselves with relative ease. If its entirely aweful BW will make more adjustments. This is the nature of MMO's, trial and error with balancing and lots of changes. I imagine the same people who play those "broken classes" well will be fine playing healers post 1.2. you know, the ones with skill. I don't mean to insult you or call you bad but learn to deal with the changes and eventually you'll see your class is still fine.
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Considering that the vast majority roll faceroll dps classes I disagree with this statement. This should be one of the incentives for rolling something other than a "LUL BIG DEEPZ NUMBARZ! oh and lf tank and healer to carry me to gear plz in pve" class.
If a healer is instant guaranteed gank bait for ANY dps class out there, why be one? Same with a tank. Now having a certain few SPECIALIZED dps classes that are meant to chew up healers (normally this is the rogue/op/scoundrel etc) is fine and keeps balance in check. Problem was all the sorcs/sages whined and got that class nerfed, which made healers seem stronger than they were intended because their counter class suddenly got neutered.
In the end, as with most things, you can blame it on the inquisitor/consular community.
I agree with you but I don't disagree with the OP. He's correct in that a healer should be more of a support role than a 1v1 monster and you hit the nail on the head that a few specialized dps classes should be able to beat a healer. The healer should have enough CC and other utility tools under its belt that, unless its a 2v1 situation, the healer can "survive" a long time, even against the specialized classes but not so much that they have no fear of losing as it is now.
As it stands, for people who only care about winning, what reason is there to roll anything other than a healer right now? I've yet to play one (though I'm leveling a Sage (Lv2) now as I'm going through all Jedi classes) but from what I've seen playing against Sorc's on my Shadow and Guardian, they have no problem ignoring my damage (tank classes) healing their group and themselves. I don't expect to kill a healer as a tank but my damage has absoloutly no pressure on them what so ever because they know they can heal through it.
But yeah, in the end, I blame it on the fact that so many people noticed how good those classes are and have been abusing it. I've played WZ's where 2/3 of the enemy team were Sorcs.
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Sorc allrdy had a hard time with kiting classes as you know, and we have THE worst class for 1v1, the only chance we had was to kite. Now they removed the ability to cast chain lightning off our free proc from FL. So basically, all the hybrid specs are nerfed from 1.2 and on. Now we can go full lightning, healer or madness. All the hybrid specs were centered around instant cast chain lightning. So now you cant get a kite spec with chain lightning proc.
This is a really big step towards death for sorcs. Unfortunetly I had hoped that they would fix our lightning tree before they killed an allrdy underpowered class, but they have felt nerfing some of our only viable options was the way to go.
For all of you that felt you couldnt kill sorc, well... From now on there will be alot less. So now you will see what its like to be killed by all the really OP classes. Lets guess what class that will be super whined about next. Maybe snipers will get nerfed
When your class can self heal it should be the worst class for 1v1. In case you haven't noticed the game isn't balanced around 1v1. Tank classes are in the same boat. I can sit and smash a Commando all day and not kill him by myself (unless he's just bad, or not well geared). DPS cant survive long without hiding or stopping to heal somehow.
Sorc/Sage on the other hand currently have the best of both worlds. They can heal to survive, have tons of CC and can do damage. Even if its not huge bursts they can easily knock down every class 1v1 if the player is good enough by simply wittling them down and not dieing. How fair is that? If you don't want to nerf sage/sorc, buff everyone else.
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I die to good DPS 1v1 all the time on my sorc healer. GOOD dps...
Bad ones I just kite and knockback until they go faceroll someone else.
REALLY funny when two baddies try to kill you... they just mash DPS skills and let you freecast...
Why waste a second using an interrupt when the other guy can get it. I mean, it's not even on the GCD, but who cares? That's .25 seconds I could be DPSing this healer. STUN?! HAHAHA yeah right that uses a GCD I could be using to smash the Ravage button harder!! OMGOMG HIS FRIENDS ARE COMING WHY WON'T HE DIE?!?!?
GAWD DANGIT THEY SHOWED UP AND SAVED HIM! I'M GONNA GO MAKE A NERF HEALERS POST ON THE FORMS!! NO WAY A HEALER SHOULD BE ABLE TO TANK TWO DPS!!!
1v1 a healer should be able to survive against a DPS but not indefinately but even with that in mind, 1v1 isn't the point. When you roll into rooms where there are 4-5 healers you have a problem because you really need 8 dpsers to take them down with any kind of efficiency and if you spend all your time killing healers, you're losing objectives. I'm not saying that healers should be nerfed but in games like Hutball, them having such an easy time surviving makes being anything other than a healer dumb or frustrating.
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I don't even know if thats true. Sage and sorcerers really make those teams in hutt Ball with all their speed and friendly pull. Not complaining, I'm just saying.
I agree. Most teams will ignore everyone but the ball carrier. Sage runs close to the goal, ball carrier gets remotely close, pull, score.
Side note: I hate Hut Ball. Nothing against the actual game but every match I've joined I've had teams full of DPS and tanks and like 1 healer class who doesn't heal vs an army of Sages (it feels like). I've yet to win a hutball match and I've only played 1 game (out of at lest 30) where someone on my team has scored.
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Kinetic ward spammable every 12 sec with 8 wards unlikely to be struck off in normal pvp situations. one of the highest force mitigation of any class. 3 additional proc defensive abilities including a permanent heal ability.
Not only that, their spamming of telekinetic throws/Lightnings have the ability to heal themselves, and slowing down their foes, adding to insane survivability along with massive dps and with Harnessed shadow up, it cannot be interrupted(another overpowered feature to a completely overpowered ability). They can stealth when needed, and can sprint when needed and kite when needed adding to survivability and an element of surprise. Jedi Shadows seems to be totally imbalanced, especially in PVP and I invite anyone of you who denies this to offer up a good counter to my arguments. Anyone who agrees please chime in as well. Jedi Shadow has too many useful utilities for PVP including with PULL, they have just about everything to counter everything on top of being the best pure tank in the game and second best self healer after healer classes, at least where PVP is concerned. Something seems to be horribly off with this picture.
A Jedi Shadow being able to out-tank, outrun, out stealth, out dps, out kite and able to out CCs and out self heals, on an above average level in the game. There's just seem to be no buffs that could bring any classes on par with a Shadow specced for PVP without breaking the game mechanics so the only option out it seems is to nerf Shadows -
A class that will be able to consistently get 300K+ dmg, and 100K+ healing in warzone matches along with being able to sprint stealth, pull, and tank like a madman, and score 55-0 in kills ratio very often, something is very very wrong with the balance here- guys - discuss with civility, any blatant fanboyism post or trolling, or off topic post will be reported.
For more reference of how overpowered a Shadow/Assassin could be in PVP, please visit this thread:
You're joking right? I have a 43 Guardian and 9/10 if a Shadow 1v1's my I win or they run away. It's damn near a fact that not every class can squash every other class. I can't beat a healer for the life of me on my Guardian (and vice versa). I'm not even going to say you're bad because it might just depend on your class but in most WZ's im in, its the Sages/Sorcerers and Sentinal/Marauder's who top the scores most in damage. Shadows/Assassins get up there sure but they are far from over powered. If you don't think so, play one and you'll see all those glaring weaknesses they have.
Over Powered healing killing PvP
in PvP
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Yeah I've been there but on the other side of it. As a tank they couldn't kill me to save their lives but because they were so busy healing each other. What was bad though is that since we couldn't kill a single one of their healers (they had 5 btw) we couldn't get pas a single door. On the flip side, their DPS dropped us like flies because we couldn't kill the DPS. There are times where its just unfair. I'm glad this is kind of rare.