A dps taunt can be the difference between a wipe and a clear for example on draxus if a tank has a dismantler it is absolutely useful.

In regards to not being able to have mult bloodthirsts i was referring to the fact that bloodthirst has already been nerfed once albiet that one was needed. And no we are not owed a spot what i was saying was it made bringin 2 mars pointless if there is another dps who pull numbers that are even close. In regards to frenzy when was the last time u felt u needed a back to back beserk and with a 3 min cooldown useing it a ton to get pred is impossible its pretty obvious that frenzy was mostly ment to allow beserk/bloodthirst combo I am not saying bloodthirst is needed for burn phases but with groups that cant even do nim titan 6 burn due to lack of dps when in 180s then why make it even harder for people. Obviously if you are in a group with good dps bloodthirst isn't neccessary but from what ive seen alot of groups dont have the dps.( And by not being able to beat titan 6 burn i mean hitting enrage at 10% and wipping) What I was saying is we are balanced the fact that we have bloodthirst helps mitigate the fact we have to move around so much as opposed to a sniper who can stand there and dps without haveing to move and lose dps plus they have balistic shield as a group cooldown mercs have healing and so forth. I am not saying we are a must bring but losing bloodthirst would put us behind the other classes.

Removing bloodthirst from marauders without some kind of large scale change to the class is a terrible idea. Bioware has already made it to where the for practical purposes it can only be applied by one marauder due to the debuff removing the temptation to run with mult marauder for mult bloothirsts. Also without blood thirst baring a few exceptions there would be nearly no need for frenzy so why not take it too. Getting rid of bloodthirst would not only weaken marauders it would weaken grps when doing bosses with burn phases. And lets face it there are still plenty of guilds that cant make the dps checks on brontes with the droids or on the council burn phase why would we want to make it any harder on them. And its not bloosthirst holding back some of the changes we want it is however the fact that we are one of the highest parsing dps classes and have absolutely great survivorbility given the number of cooldowns we posesses. Marauders are finally in a spot where we can make up for the fact that the current fights are all range friendly and taking away bloodthirst might not take us out of the equation but would drop us several rungs on the what dps do we want to bring ladder. Also as for other classes having to line up cooldowns to coincide with bloodthirst if u have a competent raid grp that should already be happening since both should be up and used for for the burn phase.

Thanks for all the advice guys.

Thanks for responding and nice batman reference. Sorry there was so much in it it's just late and I am kinda mad. Once again thanks for taking the time to read it and respond. My biggest concerns over leaving is that several of my friends from the guild haven't been on in a while and I hate to leave without saying bye:(. Can anyone suggest a good pve guild that's looking for a tank or healer on prophecy of the five.

So I really do not want to sound like a crybaby but I just can't stand it anymore and need some advice on how to handle my current guild. I started out in the guild a little over a year ago. Within a few weeks of me joining the officers and gm had a falling out and the gm left along with a sizeable chunk of the guild. At the time I wasn't a serious raider so this really didn't affect me and I just stuck around shortly after the new gm and officers who were the guilds main core group wanted to put together a second core and I was one of the first people to volunteer for it and made some really good friends through it including the officer who had put together and was running the second core group. Soon after personal issues forced him to quit the game and the core fell apart. The officers told us they were putting it back together and at this point we still had the tanks and several of the dps ready to go. After over a month of waiting the officers finally started it back up but at this point we were down to one tank and one dps(myself). After a week I was switched to be the other tank. Instead of filling the other spots with new people the main core basically took over and used it as a group for their alts. After a while they complained about getting too tired and disbanded the second group. I understood their point but failed to see why they couldn't have just brought in new people to begin with. Myself and the other tank who had at this point decided to go heals started to put together our own group. We had 2 tanks 2 dps and a heals in order then the gm swoops in and basically says yeah everything you guys have done is pointless we are putting a group together that's been almost a month and a half ago and still no group. While this is annoying my biggest problem is that even though we have people who are good at their roles in guild but whenever the core group needs a replacement instead of giving someone in guild a shot at it they find someone from out of guild. For example they lost their main tank after I was fully geared and had gotten pretty good at it and asked me to come help them GEAR the guy they were bringing in to fill the role who to my knowledge was a pvper and it really stung cause I had worked my but off and was nearly fully min maxed at this point and had sunk several million into my tank to get it geared quickly. At this point every person I was friends with in guild excluding two people out of ten had left and even they only come on occasionally. When I was learning my class they basically threw me in the deep end and told me to swim but seem to have hand held anyone they wanted for their core. I hate to just leave cause I've had a lot of fun times with them and they did give me one hm ec run's entire gear drop to me when I was getting my tank in order (mind you this was well after tab had launched and most grips had it on farm) but I just am getting tired of feeling like a cheerleader. I know this post has no information about server or names but I really don't want this getting back to them before I decide what to do

Thanks I've been looking for a good guide for mars and this has made a lot of sense and helped a lot . I used to only run carnage then some guildies convinced me to switch to annihilation and I did do better on the dummies and had never really thought about some of these things . So thanks a lot everyone

My advice for gearing a mar is pvp till 50 to ensure you have 2000 wz comms and some rwz comms if you want. When you hit 50 get the rec gear then get a bm piece and trade rwz comms for wz comms to get more bm or use them to insta upgrade to wh. Next run hm flashpoints till u get tio/colum then run ops and continue upgrading gear.(this is for a pve build). For pvp do the same except do pvp instead of flash points for more comms to get more bm. Once you are in full bm start upgrading to wh if you kept all the rwz comms from weeklies and dailies you should be near ready for at least one piece. I would suggest staying with weaponmaster instead of ripping out mods due to the undying rage boost. This doesnt seem worthwile but it can easily change the course of a fight. Ive tanked Soa at the end of EV for a pylon drop before while he was in enrage with this easily. Of course this is my personal preference. My biggest piece of advice is to specailize it to your play-stile. As a side note if you run ops with a heal that has trouble run annihilation just be sure to avoid group heals against the infernal council on EV. Hope people find this helpful . ( I am a hardcore raider for reference so that does color my opinion.)