Howbadisbad
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Posts posted by Howbadisbad
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You are correct. It's 50% on a full BM geared opponent. Taking 2 hits of 4k before even being able to react is half hp for most people is it not?
While this may look OP on paper, you soon realize it isn't in practice, since the class you just bursted turns around and kites/roflstomps you due to superior damage, mobility, and surviveability.
After that you are out of stealth and doing sub-par damage until you die, wait for like 15+ seconds, or blow your only useful cooldown.
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We all know where he pulled his numbers from.
His arse.
I lol'd hard when I saw that post say Operatives/Scoundrels put out more DPS than everyone but Sents.
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Sorry. I'd rather see Backblast have reduced cooldown than a Shadowstep ability.
The only time a gap closer is really needed is in Huttball. So basically people are asking for a massive change to how a class operates in order to do better in 25% of all warzones. That just seems odd.
If you are only getting kited or knocked away in Huttball then your enemies are doing it wrong.
Any melee DPS without a gap closer is gonna get steamrolled by a competent ranged class.
/Signed btw
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The thing what all you operative/smugglers are not understanding is that with your from the shadows burst it drops fresh 50s in greens to 40% hp which might as well be 100-0...
But its ok i know little kids mainly play the from the shadows big burst crutch class IE Vanilla Rogues in WoW and think they totally outplay there opponent Fixed.
You clearly have no clue what you are talking about btw.
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They can be superior to a DPS Operative!
Oh wait, that is every melee DPS...
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unfortunately ive countered every single one of your arguments with facts.
lets go back to sprint.
sprint, counterable by every single snare and CC in the game, will NOT close the gap most of the time BY ITSELF. a single snare would make you run at less than 100% speed.
Doesn't force speed ignore snares? Could be wrong, but I know it ignores the snare the huttball gives.
if feral druids could not remove snares at will, they would be one of the lowest mobile classes instead of the highest mobile class even though they have a zero CD mini sprint available whenever. a slow sprint, by itself, will not close the gap in an environment with strong long lasting snares with almost zero opportunity cost.
I don't think force sprint is affected by snare
as a rogue, you are more likely to close the gap with just vanish than sprint. if vanish/stealth has a HIGHER chance of closing the gap by itself than sprint, why do you consider sprint to be a gap closer but not stealth?
But this is SWTOR, where being seen for 20m away, and getting knocked out of stealth by the excessive ammounts of AOE is common.
now if you were given force speed, thats slightly different. it is an extremely fast sprint which overcomes the snare problem to a fair degree.
if your whole definition of a gap closer is any ability which has a chance of being able to close a gap, then stealth would be considered a gap closer.
If it was reliable, which it is not, in SWTOR.
Stealth is so weak in SWTOR due to how easily it is countered. Also, it can't be used once you are in combat, which is all the time since combat is so hard to drop in SWTOR.
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the person you are responding to is a "person who deliberately skews the facts as much as possible and posts in an inflammatory fashion in order to get a rise out of people" (woo, incoming post deletion by bioware!)
i hate fighting ops more so than any class in the game, but they do not drop people in 5 seconds.
although, i play a pt and if my CC breaker is down an op will regularly kill me before i get one attack off. but still that takes around 10 seconds, not 5. unless the pt gets the first strike, pts are scared to death of ops.
Powertechs are probably the biggest counter to Operatives at this point in time. Railshot just craps all over them.
Also, I'm not sure what you are doing during the 5 seconds during which you are not stunned by the Op, but if you arn't getting any attacks off then you are doingitwrong.
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If you want to heal, but are complaining about being focused in PvP, you need to go back to PvE.
High priority targets get trained, that is how PvP works.
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It shouldn't be affected by resolve because then all the melee classes except for Operative (Operatives would end up being on par with ranged classes) will be roflstomping every ranged class.
2 CCs and then the melee class is resistant to kiting. Not balanced.
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Same...smoked by Operatives every time...w/out fail. Heck, I can even see one out of stealth attacking someone else. Change target to him/her in the hopes of gunning them down before they make their way to me for their next kill. But they'll finish off whoever they're currently killing, run up to me then rinse/repead their cycle of death. I kite em, I dot em, I cc them, I burst DPS them, I KB them, I pop all my defenses and relics...it doesn't seem to matter. The Operative if they are decent at all will seem to demolish me every time. So ya...I'll be watching too for the perfect counter attack to an Operative..
Since the Operative killed another bad while you were right there, I shall reveal the counter to an Operative.
Perfect counter attack,
1)Dot the Operative before he enters stealth after he dominates your bad friend (Can no longer stealth).
2) Kite him (As long as you stay 10m away, he can't hurt you)
If he blows CS
1) Prepare for opening, (Pop defensive relics if you take them, use BS?)
2) Break debilitate
3) Knockback or stun or root.
4) Start to Kite
5) If he gets within 10m repeat steps 3-4
6) Victory! You just killed an Operative 1v1!
You should be leath spec in PvP because marksman has mobility issues, btw.
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Celebrus does have a point that people are overstating the case a bit about how operatives are terrible/useless.
But thats to be expected because people are angry, and rightfully so.
His point is pretty moot, because classes in WoW have rarely been underpowered to the point where there is litterally no reason to bring classes into both PvE and PvP due to them being outshined in every way. If a class is bad in PvP, it generally shines in PvE and vice versa (Hunters, Rogues).
The only classes in WoW that have been as broken as Operatives are now could have been Pallys at the start, but that is all I can think of.
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Doesn't hit huge numbers = Less noticeable = less QQ
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Isn't it great that preference, personal enjoyment, and friends still have more of an impact on where you go in this game than which class is FOTM?
I played a rogue for months in competitive play during cata knowing full well that I would get where I wanted to be faster playing a frost mage, but I enjoyed it more, so thats what I did. In LK I played a rogue knowing that I would do better playing a ret pally. In BC I played a rogue knowing full well that I would do better playing a BM hunter. I liked it more, despite any perceived problems it had. No matter what game you're playing, at what time, or what class you're playing within that game, the grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side.
The imbalances you speak of exist in every game, they are a constant struggle that MMO developers deal with, but at the end of the day, there will still be operatives in competitive play, because operatives simply aren't as broken as people HERE are describing them, because it's viable, because people who would play "any class at a high level" choose to play the operative/scoundrel and enjoy it.
Rogue could bring things to the table that other classes couldn't at all of these points, if we are speaking pvp. In BC Mutt Rogues were pretty OP in terms of stunlock and wtfpwn with dem glaives. In WotLK I don't really know much, took a break to play mostly fps, But I don't think Hunters have ever been more useful than a Rogue pvpwise, In Cata, Rogues are completely fine, they are quite possibly the strongest melee DPS for arena.
When a class has no point of being used over another class in both PvP and PvE, it is a problem, and it should be adressed.
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You say I'm completely wrong, then agree with me. Frontload dps >>> in PvP. That's the entire point.
Acctually, it is situational. If you think you can blow someone up in rated with an Operative while they have all their cooldowns up then you are dead wrong.
Burst on demand is the best burst. Even if it has set up time, it is vastly superior to frontloaded burst, because you can set up your burst while your allies set up a kill situation. Assassins can build up for their burst at any time, Operatives can't. They must have stealth, which they can only get from before entering a fight, and from cloaking screen.
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Dude Scoundrels imo are by far the most annoying class in the game. The BM Scoundrels ive played against a very good at kiting and getting behind you. Once they trip you down your life just disappears even as a tank, I've seen a handful of scoundrels from Vendetta on the Ajunta Pall server each individually down every class in a single combo or at least cripple them so bad that the other player never had a chance. Good players will be good players regardless of class just talk more with competitive scoundrels/operatives on your server.
Operatives GET kited, and are the easiest class to kite.
These tanks should invest in better gear and stop wearing greens.
These classes getting downed in one combo should stop wearing greens.
Performing well =/= Class balance
Advantages compared to other classes = Class balance
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Try 1v1ing someone in a ranked warzone, please.
I'll admit though. If KC gets nerfed (which I highly doubt it would) and the other 2 specs remain the same, I will lol so hard.
Would still be stronger than Operatives.
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It is not Balanced, because hardly any team goes for both sides, unless it just plays out like this unintentionally. Currently 90% of the time, you are going Mid and side. So now you have 2 advantages, first is the proximity from Mid to side, and second it's the speeder.
If you want balance, then these side speeders should ONLY spawn if you capture BOTH sides, not just ONE. But even then I still wouldnt see it as balanced.
Lolwut.
I always attempt to get my team to run side/side, and most of the time they do. It is the best way to win.
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The problem is that Leath has huge TA generating problems.
You have to shiv for it, or must spec into medicine to get it.
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buahah current operatives can still 100-0 people...
Fresh 50 Sorcs in greens maybe.
Anything that is equally geared, not even close.
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Only 6K?
Don't know much about Ops, but last night in a WZ, I single handedly defended a turret from the entire team for the whole game. It was so easy as a scrapper, granted I have a couple pieces of centurian gear, but they were all ex navy seals, full battlemaster/rakata on vent.
Rotation was Shootfirst, BB, dead.
DK, BB, BW, dead (this won was something like 25K or sometihng on a tank.
The healer was super hard because he had guard, and I had to do a flash bang, but with 6K hits on average it doesn't matter, I got lucky and Sucker Punch proc'd for an additional 2K, I was worried I had to use another skill.
Popped cool-down, hit dodge and cast fly-by for a ticking 4K pts of damage, wiped two scrubs with this because I got my tendon shot off and stepped in front of a guy trying to run away from the blast.
My team piped up and was like: "OMGZ dude we're on the way!" And I had to say, It's cool I got this. Sure I took a couple hits for typing that out, but I wasn't worried. Popped cool head and then did a Disappearing act and another shoot first, BB, WTFPonies.
For giggles I popped a hot, because hey why not? It only healed for 1K per tick, but when I crit it was something closer to 3. With only two guys left I vital shot ticked one down with the occasional BW, and when it came to the last guy I threw up Surrender and the guy fainted.
Honestly, I swear everyone believes this class does things it can't.
Almost thought you were attempting to be serious until I got to WTFPonies and saw the last sentance.
Lol. People do make up stories like these though.
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Thats a healing problem, not an operative problem, which is probably why healers in general are being hit in 1.2
A decent healer, especially a sorc/sage, can survive ANY solo DPS, especially when allies peel, so your statement is pointless.
I stand by my claims.
You just admitted that Operatives are not the problem when it comes to four shotting, and don't solo healers.
You don't have any more claims to stand by.
This thread is aimed at Operative/Scoundrel DPS not healing.
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Thats because it is completely untrue, DPS sins have nowhere near the kind of burst that ops do, and for him to say that it's better for it to *NOT* be frontloaded, when he's playing a class that has no gap closer other than stealth, is absolutely ridiculous, and proves that he's really speaking out of his rear at this point.
If ops/scoundrels didn't have the extremely frontloaded damage that they have they *REALLY* would be bad in PvP, so his claim shows a clear lack of knowledge on the matter.
So since when do Operatives hit for 14k in one global?
Seems like you are the one speaking out of your arse to me.
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Ops/scoundrels are fine.
There are a few bad, vocal, angry operatives/scoundrels that don't find themselves capable of four shotting *ANY* class that stumbles across their LoS, and thus believe they are a broken, unplayable class.
Meanwhile there are hundreds of ops/scoundrels that are finding success in warzones by playing to the strengths of their class rather than trying to gank sin tanks and juggs.\
As a sniper, if I spent most of my time attacking sin tanks and expecting success I'd probably be angry and screaming for buffs too, but I don't, and I'm not, because I know I'm more suited to killing the squishy healer thats heal-botting the ball carrier than having 60% of my physical damage mitigated by tankyness.
Anything that is getting fourshot is very undergeared.
Statement 2 is just fluff, intended to make your argument seem as though it is fact or a strong basis, even though you acctually have no clue what hundreds of OPs feel about their class.
Healers can easily survive an Operative if they are kiting like they should be. That is discounting allies peeling for the healer, like would be done in rated WZs.
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All true.
Every single one of these things can be done by Assassin except for off heals. But Assassins can carry the ball and guard healers.
Your move?
But its ok i know little kids mainly play the from the shadows big burst crutch class IE Vanilla Rogues in WoW and think they totally outplay there opponent 
Love how people want to nerf Shadows now
in PvP
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It's called being sleeper OP.
Another class is in the spotlight of being OP, when that class gets nerfed, the power of the sleeper OP class becomes more apparent.