Well, this topic has wandered all over the place so let me take a shot at summarizing some of the major points: 1) A lot of people would be happy to pay for an expansion if it was significant in size and brought in new content for everyone. 2) We need a new storyline. The Malgus storyline has become worn out (and is just another take on the Emperor storyline) 3) more extensive and involved storylines based on missions and judicious use of VA (particularly PCVA) 4) Two ideas for a new storyline have been offered up: a) an extra-galactic invasion where both sides are initially attacked independently. (sort of like the Yuuzhan Vong invasion) b) a resource rush type storyline perhaps along the lines of the Outbound Flight novel Any other thoughts on other storyline directions?

That pretty much is the same that it is now. People in green conquest gear against people in purple operations gear (PVP uses a modified Level Sync so better gear is always better performance for the same "skill level"). Making it more like GSF also would make it easier to balance since there aren't literally thousands of gear combinations to try and match up. It also wouldn't need to be re-balanced when new gear tiers came out. As far as Spikanor's comment on pay-to-win, just don't put in a Cartel Coin mechanic in the PVP version. Your "PVP ship" or gear set would be based on your role. Tanks would have one starting set, DPS another, and Healer a third (you could make it more complex than that but you risk creating balance issues - though if it is all self contained, that is easier to control).

I'd expect Star Forge to be more affected since most of the people sensitive to lag already moved to Star Forge from Satele Shan for the better "pop" times.

A grand total of 3 months later and certainly not something APAC players were "waiting for since launch" for in 2023. Which was the point as you well know.

PVP has lots of problems and is due for a major rethink (which there is no way the game can currently provide so tying that into a paid story expansion is critical). Here's a radical thought: Make warzone/arena PVP more like GSF. Where everybody starts from the same statistics or even capabilities (essentially a PVP "ship") where as you play you earn currency to upgrade your "ship". Pull all gearing out of both GSF and PVP and make their rewards specific to GSF/PVP and separate from PVE so that there is no advantage to "gearing" from one mode or the other. This pulls out all the people who are only there for gearing. Right now you have lots of people playing GSF to gear their PVE characters (and some of these people don't care about those game modes, only the rewards they get from it). With a coherent storyline, there are lots of places PVP warzones/arenas can be fit in with almost no additional assets (really no different for Operations or Flashpoints) and still have some draw to players whose primary focus isn't PVP.

There were APAC servers at launch. They were removed some time later. Having an APAC server brings SWTOR back to being a global game, which is a good thing.

Well at least we are reaching some sort of common ground here. The idea that story in and of itself is not really expensive. While VA can be expensive it could be deployed in a manner that provides better bang for the buck. An interesting way to deploy more story could be to add more planetary stories. Those add play time but don't necessarily require PCVA. To go back to what I suggested as a potential storyline in an earlier part of the thread, you could start the expansion with a short cut-scene with you on your ship receiving a distress call from a nearby civilian craft (say a passenger liner). This could have or not have PC lines depending on how much you wanted to budget for VA. You might even be able to reuse one of the previous ship cut-scenes but change the "voice-over". You head to the location of the distress call and find a severely damaged ship. On boarding, you encounter a hostile ships security crew (mind controlled by the invaders) and have to free several groups of passengers holed up in secure areas of the ship or repair failing life support systems to keep them alive (which are of course guarded by more mind controlled passengers/crew - you could add a Dark/Light aspect to this by either slaughtering your opponents or finding a different way to neutralize them). You finally fight your way to the bridge and come face to face with one of the invaders (a species you have never encountered before - a good place to introduce the Tech/Force user mechanics I mentioned). Examining the ship's log you find it originated from an Outer Rim planet controlled by your faction. Following missions have you going to that planet and running missions to rescue civilians, come to the aid of a military faction trying to fight back against the invaders, several missions to weaken the invaders position, and finally taking out their "command post" on the planet. You can then wrap this section with another cut-scene, this one where the PC interacts with the military leadership to find out where these invaders came from and setting up the second phase. There isn't really a need for there to be many PC lines and you could probably have this be a dozen or more "missions" For group content, you could have flashpoint(s) for specific "difficult" missions. Perhaps invading a military outpost that has been mind controlled and now sees the general populace as the enemy (perhaps the resistance forces need supplies and you go there to get them). It's maybe too early to add in an operation in the storyline but I suppose you could set it up so the taking out the the enemy "command post" is either mission based or an operation (like Shadow of Revan). A lot of assets could be shared between these two paths saving budget for other things Here we have added potentially hours of play time with a minimal use of PCVA. Phases 2 and 3 would proceed similarly. Obviously anything this expansive would have to be a paid expansion, but it offers a lot more content that you would get for years with the current content strategy.

This whole argument about the cost of voice acting is being used as a proxy for not wanting the Devs to provide substantial story content. Voice Acting isn't story content. Missions are story content. Creating single player missions is about the cheapest content you can create in the game (it uses existing mechanics, doesn't use gimmicks, doesn't need a lot of balance since you are expected to win, and doesn't require special rewards). The VA only enhances what you have in the story. For that matter, how many thousand lines of voice acting have already been recorded. There has to be a significant amount of it that could be re-used (perhaps there is an additional payment to the voice actors but it has to be a lot less expensive than recording new lines). How many times in the story have we had an NPC give the PC a mission to which the PC says "I'll get right on it" in one form or another. You could create tens of hours of play time with missions without needing any voice acting at all. You use the voice acting to end major sections of the story and enhance the impact of important aspects. The biggest problem with the Traitor Arc was that they were all cutscenes and no missions. How much more content could there have been there by making them Mission based as opposed to Flashpoint with cutscene based. As far as group content has gone in this game there has been an incredible resistance to re-using assets (making all new assets for every Operation is very expensive). The fights with Arcann, Valkorian and Vaylin could easily have been turned into Operations and the end of each of those storylines could have been just like the one in Shadow of Revan (do the operation or do the missions to complete the storyline). Then you have 3 more operations to repeat to your hearts content that required few new assets saving a lot of money. We talk about saving money by cutting voice acting but suggesting re-using assets is the third rail for "MMO" players.

I can respect that opinion, but they aren't exactly employees on retainer or anything. That said. I would prefer to keep them which means it definitely has to be a DLC and as a DLC, the VA is part of the story (a DLC without VA isn't acceptable - we're paying for the "original" SWTOR experience). I was looking for a middle ground between "get rid of VA" and "I'd quit the game if they dropped VA". Not every idea is golden, this one seems like it goes nowhere.

It's the part that ties all of the pieces together, otherwise it's just a collection of mini-games.

Movies change actors all the time. How many people have "voiced" Batman or Superman. Are there people that will never watch another Batman film because their favorite actor isn't in the role. There probably are some but I'm confident you are massively overestimating any "blowback" from changing the current "A-list" VA for the second tier (which is likely almost as good but costs substantially less because they don't have an established name yet) Again, there is a difference between launching a "WOW-killer" and propping up a game struggling to survive. When you launch the game, you want the best of the best and tout it. When you are dying you are more willing to be economical

Maybe that's the problem, getting stuck on the name of a voice actor rather than the voice acting itself. Do we really need the best voice actors to revitalize the game or can we get by with "cheaper" voice acting alternatives. The game wouldn't be the same without some form of voice acting but it doesn't need to be top name talent when the game is struggling to survive.

But how many players is this really. And how does any of that bring in new players. Story remains the only content that brings in significant numbers of players and an infusion of players is what the game needs (it may be fleeting but if you don't bring them in there is no chance for the "MMO" content to retain them). All of the group content depends on a healthy player population which it does nothing to build. It's only claim is that at least we aren't losing players as fast. We are way past worrying about maintaining the status quo and the game desperately needs new players. I think you are speaking from your own personal bias here. I wouldn't consider myself an exception to what would be called an "average" player and I stayed around for the story (I still enjoy repeating the class stories on new characters, there is so much to explore). I'm sure there are a lot of other players that feel the same way. I got sick of the group content long ago and it is merely a side light now (It all starts to look the same since it is balanced for generic groups - there is a gimmick and a grind and its all pretty much downhill once you learn the gimmick). The number of complaints about group content pops compared to the game's population pretty much points out the fallacy of the argument that story has no longevity. It is certainly still the main draw of the game.

Okay, make everything transferred bound to legacy then.

I think I'd be more concerned about people transferring the contents of their cargo holds (specifically unbound items) than transferring their legacy. Nothing in the legacy can be sold for credits. As far as credits, with a limit per character and a cost to transfer per character, I think things would be alright. No one should be able to transfer enough credits to completely dominate the server in the short term. I get the feeling the idea for the new server was to not only make it a APAC server but also a "fresh start" server which is why they are not allowing transfers. They could drop that restriction at some point in the future when the server population settles in.

You're conflating two different things. Wanting voice acting is not the same as wanting specific voice acting. When launching a game you are looking for name/sound recognition of the voice actors (not that anyone really even knows who the voice actors in the game are - or for that matter cares). Eleven years on, that is a much less important factor. I doubt it would be hard to find much cheaper voice actors that sound similar enough to the original ones that people wouldn't even care.

That's really only part of the story too. The cost of voice acting is high but putting voice acting into 30-60 minutes of story has to be much more expensive per minute than longer stints. The way it is likely set up is that the voice actors charge a fee just for coming in to the studio and that cost is the same for 1 minute of dialog or an hour of dialog. They make most of their money on royalties. The longer the game lasts and the more profitable it is the more they make. The tiny non-paid expansions really get hurt by these costs where a longer expansion likely starts to run into some efficiencies that lower the relative cost. Bioware (and now Broadsword) don't really know how much money they have to work with when you have a game that is likely now making most of it's revenue via Cartel Market sales (which is highly variable). Going the route of a paid expansion would allow them to predict what they had the money for a bit better. They could look at all the costs associated with it and determine a cost for the DLC based on estimates of how many people would buy it (and at this point, I believe a lot of people would buy yearly paid expansions). There is a balance that can be achieved between the amount of voice acting and the amount of mission based content.

Well, lets ask it here then. Personally, I'd be willing to drop $100 (or even a bit more) for a Shadow of Revan like expansion. Something having a cohesive story with the flashpoints, operations, and PVP tied into that story. A generic warzone or an unconnected operation just would not interest me and no more "story" flashpoints where the story is delivered through non-interactive cutscenes. I could even be convinced to pre-order to give them a chance to prove they could do it.

At this point announcing what their plans are for 2024 is something that needs to occur sooner rather than later. Heck if they even announced the game was officially going into maintenance mode, they'd probably draw in more players than anything they have announced so far. Players wanting to see what it was like before it's gone. What is needed is a big announcement before the end of the year on what they are planning for 2024. And it needs to be something other than "we are continuing to upgrade our tools and have a new gearing system to deploy along with 30 minutes of story every 3 to 6 months, some balancing of classes, and oh yeah, our signature item, more upgraded UIs". They need to set their goals higher than that.

Just think about how much excitement about the game could be generated by an announcement that in Dec of 2024 a "massive" new expansion including a big story drop was coming whether by standard expansion or DLC. With new flashpoints, an operation or two, new warzones, and even a new GSF map all tied into that new story (I'm sick of the Emperor Valkorian/Malgus storyline - it's been all the same since the launch of the game. Time to try something different). Follow that up with postings of concept art, glimpses into the inner workings of world development, character design, short stories leading up to the events of that expansion, and even maybe some teaser content. Make it a year long celebration of the rebirth of SWTOR (learn from the mistakes of the 10th anniversary) At this point in the game, something drastic is needed or the game will go the way of the dodo bird. Someday someone will look up and say "Where did SWTOR go". Is it expensive, yes, but the path we are on now of tiny updates and constant restructuring of gearing is draining the life out of the game. The game is very close to (if it hasn't already) reaching a tipping point. When things go, they will go fast and without warning. One day, you'll try to log on and the servers will be gone. The question before us and Broadsword is do we want the game to flourish or are we content to let it fade away. That was the whole point of asking about a new story drop. We need to generate some excitement about the game that can be used to advertise that it's not dead yet. I'm sorry but touting class balance, a UI update, and a new gearing path just isn't going to do it. Things need to be shaken up.

That's really the point of story drops in MMO-RPGs. The story is the wrapper around all the content. A generic warzone is far less interesting than one tied into a coherent storyline. Once you have established the storyline you are following, the group content suggests itself. It also creates a stronger incentive to draw in people who wouldn't normally do the group content.

This could be interesting too if it included a revamp of Crafting, a sort of new resource rush. I suppose you could base it on "discovering" new hyperspace routes to resource rich worlds with Empire and Republic racing each other to exploit them. Maybe even sort of an Outbound Flight kind of storyline that occurred during the early times of the Republic.

If I was writing it, I'd start with this new enemy attacking both sides. The invaders care little for politics, they are bent on conquest and domination (perhaps their victims themselves are a resource to exploit in some way). An interesting way to go about it could be to have it split up into 3 "sections" as you progress. The first section is just fending off the attacks and figuring out who/what this new enemy is with both sides defending their own planets (existing planets). Stage two could be working "together" to turn back the invasion (perhaps striking at the invaders command structure). This would be a good place to add in a new planet. The final part being taking the fight to the enemy to make sure Republic and Empire borders are secure (could be a new planet or just a new section of the planet from the second phase). At this point the Imperials could be looking to capitalize on the strengths of the invaders (essentially making them thralls or the Empire) while the Republic is looking to make sure they don't pose a future threat (Maybe imprison them on Belsavis like the Rakata did the Esh-Ka). You could incorporate dark and light side choices pretty easily here (maybe even make some Light and Dark tokens available based on choices). As far as the enemy goes, I think it would be neat for them to have powers that affect Force Users and Tech Users differently. Perhaps they are telepathic and can control minds. Force Users are resistant to this effect while Tech users are not. You could then make them resistant to the Force (perhaps they are so alien that they are somewhat "dead" to the Force). This would reduce the effectiveness of Force based attacks. On the other side, with the Tech users susceptible to their mind control powers, they face a constant struggle to control their actions reducing the rate at which they can take actions (reduced alacrity for example) sort of like a "Slow" spell in TTRPGs. This allows you to balance the effectiveness of the two combat types while still having some flavor. It also allows you to have a reason for the reduced effectiveness of attacks without having to resort to straight up nerfs to keep the power level under control. The whole thing is a way of reusing existing resources (planets, meshes, etc) while giving it a new twist. For the group play side of things, you could have an operation (or two) that takes the final "conquest" of this new threat to a higher level (2-3 difficulty levels). Flashpoints could be major battles in the war. And PVP could have two new warzones. One representing the early part of the invasion where Imperial and Republic forces are attacked by rampaging (randomly spawned hostile NPCs) invaders in the warzone while they are trying to accomplish some other goal. A second warzone could represent the Republic trying to prevent the Empire from utilizing the "conquered" invaders as a tool in their quest for galactic domination. This might be another place to drop in Light and Dark tokens. If the IMPs win they all get a Dark token, If the Republic wins they all get a Light token (makes winning important without a gearing implication).

Ah, I see. I thought he was talking about operations but I see his last sentence specifically says operations as a separate thought

FFXIV and WOW both have a lot more story per expansion than SWTOR has had post KotET (2+ expansions). 7.0 has barely 3 hrs of story including all the sub expansions and most of that time was the broken flashpoint 7.0 launched with. Clearly you don't play many MMO-RPGs. The bomb that was Anthem had more story in it than SWTOR had since KotET and it wasn't even an RPG. MMO-RPG = story based MMO which would be why it is supposed to have lots of story. Nature of Progress and R-4 Anomaly were both launched in the last 3 years (Nature of Progress in late 2019 and R-4 Anomaly in mid 2022)